03-24-2015 05:55 PM
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  1. grover5's Avatar
    We will have to agree to disagree. Charity begins with family, church and local organizations. Which I give to freely.
    From what I can gather you value your money and money in general way to highly to be giving it away freely.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    01-29-2015 04:39 PM
  2. SteveISU's Avatar
    Or the republicans who want to drug test them and those collecting unemployment. I don't think liberals want it to last forever. But I think the right are so freaked out that some single mom somewhere is getting free food and medical insurance that they can barely contain their outrage at the system being gamed. Which takes us back to your punch less defense of a lower capital gains tax. A real example of being gamed for some serious cash. It boggles the mind that you want to tax more for work than Vegas on wall street. How can you be taken seriously with that position?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    How can I be taken seriously, because I'm looking at it from the revenue side (ie...more money for the federal government, something big spenders in Washington will relish). I'm not looking at it with elementary school blinders on because one number is less than the other. You also can't force people to take their "gains" when you want them to. So they can let their money sit there until the rate comes down. They can hold their money and/or take it somewhere else to invest. Both the wealthy and the middle class buy and trade the same public companies, the wealthy just do it more. Raise the tax, the stock value declines and every middle class family with a tax deferred retirement plan takes a hit. There's more to it than simply 28 is more than 15.
    01-29-2015 04:58 PM
  3. grover5's Avatar
    How can I be taken seriously, because I'm looking at it from the revenue side (ie...more money for the federal government, something big spenders in Washington will relish). I'm not looking at it with elementary school blinders on because one number is less than the other. You also can't force people to take their "gains" when you want them to. So they can let their money sit there until the rate comes down. They can hold their money and/or take it somewhere else to invest. Both the wealthy and the middle class buy and trade the same public companies, the wealthy just do it more. Raise the tax, the stock value declines and every middle class family with a tax deferred retirement plan takes a hit. There's more to it than simply 28 is more than 15.
    And there is a lot more to it then raise it and the stock declines. Now we are in elementary school. There is no historical evidence that raising taxes on capital gains limits or reduces investment. None. Your whole argument is a leap of faith driven by ideology. And I'm not talking 28. I'm talking 35.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    01-29-2015 05:00 PM
  4. SteveISU's Avatar
    And there is a lot more to it then raise it and the stock declines. Now we are in elementary school.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Please enlighten me. I can make a one sentence punchline as well. When taxes rates go up, the after-tax value of stocks and mutual fund investments decrease.
    01-29-2015 05:18 PM
  5. grover5's Avatar
    Please enlighten me. I can make a one sentence punchline as well. When taxes rates go up, the after-tax value of stocks and mutual fund investments decrease.
    Look above and get back to me.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    01-29-2015 05:19 PM
  6. anon8126715's Avatar
    No it absolutely has everything to do with punishing people. Despite all the facts that raising the cap gains rate over the last 30yrs lowers revenues many on your side push it simply because they want to demonize certain people (some are middle class, it's not only the top 1% who invest). You can interpret the graph any way you like, our IRS tax code was a lot different back then with the top marginal rate of 91% and even the bottom rate was 22%. We dipped into 3 mild recessions during the 50's and the dow topped out at 750 in 1962 and then there was the Kennedy crash in May of that year. The spike you see in 1966 was when Kennedy CUT TAXES.
    So you are for "punishing" hard working people more than "punishing" those that sit around and live off capital gains? I'd rather let working people have more of their money because I know they're going to spend it, where those that just put money away, guess what they're not going to go out and buy stuff. Supply side economics doesn't work if people are barely making enough money to buy goods and services.

    Where exactly is the loophole? I understand certain industries hate damning reports. I'm sure the lobby who represent the windmill industry has attempted to bury reports when the findings are we'd have to move everyone west of the rockies out in order to place 10 million windmills to achieve a 3% contribution in our movement away from relying on oil and coal. In the end I'm not surprised. I would also argue that the vast majority of americans already understand consuming too much sugar is a bad thing.
    I'm all for facts making it to the light of day. Unfortunately, we live in a society where information is controlled and manipulated in order to keep the status quo. The World Health Organization reported that the daily allowance of sugar for the typical adult diet should be around 15 grams. Guess who lobbied our politicians to make sure we didn't try to adopt the WHO guidelines?
    palandri and A895 like this.
    01-29-2015 06:40 PM
  7. grover5's Avatar
    Please enlighten me. I can make a one sentence punchline as well. When taxes rates go up, the after-tax value of stocks and mutual fund investments decrease.
    How has the stock market fared since the top rate went up to 20% from 15% in 2013? I can tell you how my retirement has performed. Great actually. I didn't notice a massive negative impact. Kind of weird. It did target the high earners though.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    01-29-2015 06:55 PM
  8. grover5's Avatar
    How off topic are we anyway? Romney?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    01-29-2015 08:48 PM
  9. anon8126715's Avatar
    How off topic are we anyway? Romney?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    You can't help but talk about income inequality when you are discussing Mitt the twit. His comments about the "47 percent", and him proclaiming that corporations are people too (as someone once said, I have yet to see a corporation serving time for murder and corporations don't have any morals so that should tell you that they AREN'T people). I think the reason Mitt is confident this time around is because of the fact that the president that helped usher in a new era in dismantling the middle class, and deficit spending (at the time of his presidency). For the life of me, I still will never understand why some people think Ronald Reagan is the greatest president. He did more to dismantle the middle class, negotiated with terrorists, and facilitated a decade where "Greed is Good" was the rally cry. Here's to hoping the U.S. voter keeps Mitt out of the White House. We can't afford another Ronald Reagan type.
    palandri and A895 like this.
    01-29-2015 09:22 PM
  10. grover5's Avatar
    You can't help but talk about income inequality when you are discussing Mitt the twit. His comments about the "47 percent", and him proclaiming that corporations are people too (as someone once said, I have yet to see a corporation serving time for murder and corporations don't have any morals so that should tell you that they AREN'T people). I think the reason Mitt is confident this time around is because of the fact that the president that helped usher in a new era in dismantling the middle class, and deficit spending (at the time of his presidency). For the life of me, I still will never understand why some people think Ronald Reagan is the greatest president. He did more to dismantle the middle class, negotiated with terrorists, and facilitated a decade where "Greed is Good" was the rally cry. Here's to hoping the U.S. voter keeps Mitt out of the White House. We can't afford another Ronald Reagan type.
    Mitt won't even win the primary. Jeb or walker might and that's not good. Especially walker. He's the Koch brothers lapdog. Reagan would never get elected by the modern republican party.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    01-29-2015 09:34 PM
  11. palandri's Avatar
    Mitt won't even win the primary. Jeb or walker might and that's not good. Especially walker. He's the Koch brothers lapdog. Reagan would never get elected by the modern republican party.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    .....but Mitt has the money to win the primary. They'll think Jeb is too liberal. Walker would be a good Koch brothers puppet.
    01-29-2015 09:46 PM
  12. SteveISU's Avatar
    So you are for "punishing" hard working people more than "punishing" those that sit around and live off capital gains? I'd rather let working people have more of their money because I know they're going to spend it, where those that just put money away, guess what they're not going to go out and buy stuff. Supply side economics doesn't work if people are barely making enough money to buy goods and services.



    I'm all for facts making it to the light of day. Unfortunately, we live in a society where information is controlled and manipulated in order to keep the status quo. The World Health Organization reported that the daily allowance of sugar for the typical adult diet should be around 15 grams. Guess who lobbied our politicians to make sure we didn't try to adopt the WHO guidelines?
    A second ago it had nothing to do with punishing anyone, now we are talking about who we should? I'm for not attempting to make it appear we're trying to punish anyone simply because one number is bigger than the other and it's the popular thing to do in today's day and age. Long term capital gains rates for high income earners are already taxed at 23.8% when you factor in the Medicare surtax. Short term cap gains are taxed as ordinary income with the top bracket at roughly 39%. I have already shown you what happens to federal revenue from cap gains tax as a percent of GDP when it's high vs. low. Raise it to 30%, who do we tax next to make up for the shortfall? What we've seen in the past is investors can time their realizations by either pulling the money out before the rate goes up, or leaving it in their until the rate comes down. You aren't taxed at the rate at time of when you put it in, rather when you pull it out. Those rates have always been lower than normal income because the people who put their money in the stock market (1 in 5 Americans have it in there outside of a 401k) are taking a risk. They could very well lose everything, but there needs to be an incentive to invest. Hence why long term cap gains (keep your money in there longer equates to a bigger gamble) is taxed lower vs. short term (get rich quick schemes) that do nothing to spurn long term investment.

    You want to help the middle class, expand the EITC, help families send their kids to college, roll back barriers to entrepreneurship and self employment, raise the minimum wage. Give middle class families who don't' qualify for health care subsides that same tax advantages on health insurance as those afforded to companies. Right now if you and I go out and buy health insurance on the exchange we do so with post tax dollars when if we purchased it though our employer it is paid with pre-tax dollars.

    We've spent years demonizing anyone who makes more than $150k/yr, doctors, insurance companies, drug companies, healthcare workers, ect. When do the Ph.D's at the universities get raked over the coals for bending over every american family who wants to send their kid to college to better their future? When is it their time? It will never be, because both parties know the education lobby and the unions are way to strong to stand for that.
    01-30-2015 09:57 AM
  13. grover5's Avatar
    A second ago it had nothing to do with punishing anyone, now we are talking about who we should? I'm for not attempting to make it appear we're trying to punish anyone simply because one number is bigger than the other and it's the popular thing to do in today's day and age. Long term capital gains rates for high income earners are already taxed at 23.8% when you factor in the Medicare surtax. Short term cap gains are taxed as ordinary income with the top bracket at roughly 39%. I have already shown you what happens to federal revenue from cap gains tax as a percent of GDP when it's high vs. low. Raise it to 30%, who do we tax next to make up for the shortfall? What we've seen in the past is investors can time their realizations by either pulling the money out before the rate goes up, or leaving it in their until the rate comes down. You aren't taxed at the rate at time of when you put it in, rather when you pull it out. Those rates have always been lower than normal income because the people who put their money in the stock market (1 in 5 Americans have it in there outside of a 401k) are taking a risk. They could very well lose everything, but there needs to be an incentive to invest. Hence why long term cap gains (keep your money in there longer equates to a bigger gamble) is taxed lower vs. short term (get rich quick schemes) that do nothing to spurn long term investment.

    You want to help the middle class, expand the EITC, help families send their kids to college, roll back barriers to entrepreneurship and self employment, raise the minimum wage. Give middle class families who don't' qualify for health care subsides that same tax advantages on health insurance as those afforded to companies. Right now if you and I go out and buy health insurance on the exchange we do so with post tax dollars when if we purchased it though our employer it is paid with pre-tax dollars.

    We've spent years demonizing anyone who makes more than $150k/yr, doctors, insurance companies, drug companies, healthcare workers, ect. When do the Ph.D's at the universities get raked over the coals for bending over every american family who wants to send their kid to college to better their future? When is it their time? It will never be, because both parties know the education lobby and the unions are way to strong to stand for that.
    There is no evidence to suggest raising capital gains taxes have any impact long term. There is a minimal impact short term for those who get out. That's it. And stop with the victim crap. Lots of us make good money and don't feel demonized. Your party is the one blocking expansion of the EITC. They don't want to close tax loopholes for their rich buddies. What else were you completely wrong about once again? Oh yeah, it isn't the crazy salaries of the faculty as much as publicans don't want to tax for education. Your freaking party doesn't believe in paying for public higher education. Fine. Then get ready to pay a boatload more in tuition because the money has to come from somewhere.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    01-30-2015 10:05 AM
  14. grover5's Avatar
    One more thing. Romney's out. Jeb's people pushed him out is my guess.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    A895 and palandri like this.
    01-30-2015 10:06 AM
  15. hydrogen3's Avatar
    From what I can gather you value your money and money in general way to highly to be giving it away freely.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Chuckles...This is why you'll never be a 1%er.
    01-30-2015 12:52 PM
  16. hydrogen3's Avatar
    (like when a recession hits) then what?

    Posted via Android Central App
    Yes. I'd like to keep my money for my family during a recession.. Please, give yours away.. to the fat slob in Iowa with the subsidized cell phone on free wifi at Mcdees. As he/she chuckles at you while you work hard.....Your not going to embarrass or make me feel guilty for wanting to keep what I earn.

    I fart in your general direction.
    01-30-2015 12:58 PM
  17. grover5's Avatar
    Chuckles...This is why you'll never be a 1%er.
    I'm fine where I am. Greed doesn't suit me.
    palandri and A895 like this.
    01-30-2015 02:01 PM
  18. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Yes. I'd like to keep my money for my family during a recession.. Please, give yours away.. to the fat slob in Iowa with the subsidized cell phone on free wifi at Mcdees. As he/she chuckles at you while you work hard.....Your not going to embarrass or make me feel guilty for wanting to keep what I earn.

    I fart in your general direction.
    Not surprised. You have all the maturity of a 5th grader and yet again, no answers.

    Posted via Android Central App
    palandri likes this.
    01-30-2015 03:02 PM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    Chuckles...This is why you'll never be a 1%er.
    Your posts don't help your cause either, and I'm not just referring to the content of the posts.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
    A895, GadgetGator and palandri like this.
    01-30-2015 05:03 PM
  20. UncleGrandpa's Avatar
    Mitts' a legend in his own mind. What a moron.
    01-30-2015 05:05 PM
  21. A895's Avatar
    Romney's out, who is next for the Republicans?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    01-30-2015 07:48 PM
  22. grover5's Avatar
    Romney's out, who is next for the Republicans?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Its gonna be jeb.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    01-30-2015 08:14 PM
  23. A895's Avatar
    Its gonna be jeb.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    I want McCain to run again. He's too old though.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    01-30-2015 09:35 PM
  24. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Romney's out, who is next for the Republicans?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Yeah I agree....it's Jeb. I think he will win the party nomination, though it is possible for Scott Walker to pull a rabbit out of his hat I suppose. We shall see.

    I'm surprised they aren't trying to run a women yet. And no, Palin doesn't count. I suppose Carly has made some rumblings that she might run. But she couldn't run HP right, couldn't win her senate run, and I don't see her being any more successful against governors who have actually won their races and have ran a state.

    Posted via Android Central App
    01-31-2015 12:02 AM
  25. anon8126715's Avatar
    01-31-2015 10:34 AM
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