05-10-2015 02:09 PM
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  1. Shilohcane's Avatar
    Why do you hate the middle class so much?
    Why do you hate Freedom guaranteed under the US Constitution so much that our forefather fought for and died for give us the freedom and right to work without making some Union Corporate fat cats rich living off the money you worked for?

    Unions are one of the biggest reasons that so many factory jobs moved over seas and will never come back. It's really funny how your Unions convinced you they aren't a major Corporation that are every bit as evil as the corporation they taught you to not trust of hate. These Union Fat Cats steal the blood money you worked for and are living high on the hog off your salary and you can't even see that.
    04-19-2015 06:57 PM
  2. Shilohcane's Avatar
    I live in an industry where they are ACTIVELY bringing in cheap Indian labor to undercut American labor at pennies on the dollar. I work with MANY Indian programmers and App developers that know just enough to write a few lines of code and do minimal work. They don't have ANY skill set other than sitting at a computer and copying and pasting lines of code.
    I was a computer programmer for 30 years for computer manufactures. Look around there isn't many old programmers since the young kids work harder, longer hours, have fresher knowledge and work cheaper. Also, that is pure BS claiming Indian programmers aren't as smart. Go to any US Top Computer Science College and you will see a ton of students from India, Asia and around the world. Most likely when you were playing on you Xbox as a kid most of these Asian kids were taking extra math courses in the school even on the weekends. Brains and hard work have no borders and intelligent American computer programmers will always have job eventually getting promoted to management.

    Frankly if you had the brains and the talent then you would start your own App Software company and wouldn't need a Union.

    Programming is a job that is perfect for telecommuting and the programmers don't need to live in the same city, state or country to do that job. Companies I worked for always had computer programming groups and division in other nations. When all the DOD defense programs shut down and 95% of the computer manufacturing went out of business I lost my programming job. So I started selling computer, storage, cloud service with outsourcing and made four times what I ever made programming. If you think a Union is going to save your programming job where you can retire then you need a reality check in a backup plan.
    04-19-2015 07:48 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    If a company can deal with the quality deficit when running such labor, then they can. I would be much more concerned with why someone can copy paste cookie cutter code and do a comparable job to what I went to college for.

    Computer science and similar degrees from my point of view have been a toilet in the last 10 years or so. I have known many to graduate with such degrees and have a hard time. It has gotten so bad that I have started advising those that want such degrees to go the extra mile and get a degree in computer engineering or to find another field.

    A degree or training guarantees nothing. What you do with the degree and how you differentiate yourself is what matters.

    Sent from my XT1096
    The reason those degrees are in the toilet is because companies lobby Congress to get work visas for countries that mass produce individuals that have a piece of paper that claims they can do something that they're more than likely not qualified to do. You inject the market with a cheap source of labor and then thousands of people with the degree are suddenly force to take less pay or follow different career paths. Ask yourself what your field would be like if thousands of foreign people were allowed to do what you do with minimal training. Do you think the salary you make now would be possible? No one is immune.

    Have you ever seen the movie Falling Down with Michael Douglas? I recommend you watch it if anything because Michael Douglas gets to do all the things that the average man would love to do to blow off steam. There's a scene where a black man is protesting a bank because he is refused a loan. He tells Michael Douglas' character that they turned him down because he was not "economically viable".

    A895 likes this.
    04-19-2015 08:51 PM
  4. anon8126715's Avatar
    I was a computer programmer for 30 years for computer manufactures. Look around there isn't many old programmers since the young kids work harder, longer hours, have fresher knowledge and work cheaper. Also, that is pure BS claiming Indian programmers aren't as smart. Go to any US Top Computer Science College and you will see a ton of students from India, Asia and around the world. Most likely when you were playing on you Xbox as a kid most of these Asian kids were taking extra math courses in the school even on the weekends. Brains and hard work have no borders and intelligent American computer programmers will always have job eventually getting promoted to management.

    Frankly if you had the brains and the talent then you would start your own App Software company and wouldn't need a Union.

    Programming is a job that is perfect for telecommuting and the programmers don't need to live in the same city, state or country to do that job. Companies I worked for always had computer programming groups and division in other nations. When all the DOD defense programs shut down and 95% of the computer manufacturing went out of business I lost my programming job. So I started selling computer, storage, cloud service with outsourcing and made four times what I ever made programming. If you think a Union is going to save your programming job where you can retire then you need a reality check in a backup plan.
    Sorry, but I'm going to stick to my guns on the Indian workers that come here on Visas not being as well trained as they should be. And I hate to disappoint you, but by the time the 1st generation Xbox came around, I was already a few years out of college working with machines that cost several millions of dollars in a state of the art semiconductor fab. You know what they say when you assume.

    As far as "brains and hard work", I've worked with many managers and they will tell you first hand that they don't know the technology (or during the course of doing business with some, you will soon find out that they don't know the business), but they took some business administration course and know terminology, so I'm not exactly sure why you think that's the natural evolution either.

    There was an article at CNN.com that I was meaning to post up via a new thread, but it is appropriate here. Good news: more people are quitting their jobs - Nov. 13, 2014

    The main point of the story is that the only way you're going to get a raise is by leaving your current employer for another employer that's willing to pay you. What does that tell you about the mindset of managers? They still feel that they can suppress wages and keep employees locked in. One of the reasons that many people hated the boom under Clinton's last few years in office is because workers actually had a say in their salary, they had a lot of choices. Employers didn't like having to pay great wages, but when it's either that or not keep up with demand, guess what most companies are going to do?

    You are right though, you have to re-invent yourself every few years. The one thing that gets me about the IT industry as a whole is that you always need to keep up with certifications, or else one day you'll wake up and realize that your skill set has become obsolete. The one thing that the UAW I worked for many years ago (before these blasted kids and their Xboxes) did for its union members is it taught us how to get into the real estate market and create equity that could help during retirement. They also encouraged its members to train for other fields so that when the auto industry would lay off its workers, they had another skill set at their disposal. Imagine that, a union that tried to prepare its members.
    04-19-2015 09:28 PM
  5. anon8126715's Avatar
    Why do you hate Freedom guaranteed under the US Constitution so much that our forefather fought for and died for give us the freedom and right to work without making some Union Corporate fat cats rich living off the money you worked for?

    Unions are one of the biggest reasons that so many factory jobs moved over seas and will never come back. It's really funny how your Unions convinced you they aren't a major Corporation that are every bit as evil as the corporation they taught you to not trust of hate. These Union Fat Cats steal the blood money you worked for and are living high on the hog off your salary and you can't even see that.
    That was actually tongue in cheek as the right wing loves the question of "Why do you hate America?" So you're ok with denying our Right To Peacefully Assemble? That's actually THE FIRST Amendment of this Constitution that you claim to love.....So much for that.
    GadgetGator and A895 like this.
    04-19-2015 10:10 PM
  6. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Why do you hate Freedom guaranteed under the US Constitution so much that our forefather fought for and died for
    The revisionist history is astounding. Back when the forefathers were signing that document, not everyone was free and prior to unions coming along people could be made to work excessive hours in unsafe conditions for little money. Even children.

    But go ahead and cling to your mythology. Yay freedom. What you seem to want is freedom for the corporations and none for the workers.
    A895 likes this.
    04-20-2015 01:56 PM
  7. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I guess now it doesn't matter if there's even a union or not at your company.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/20...html?referrer=

    Basically a union, of which doesn't officially represent Wal-Mart workers or collect dues from them, has stepped in to petition the NLRB to force Wal-Mart to re-hire workers that were laid off due to store closings. They claim the store was closed as retaliation for workers protesting wages and such. Wal-Mart says it's a group of stores with plumbing issues, with a record of problems, and is a temporary closure. (As a side note, I've noticed they like to run their sink water extra hot, so who knows.)

    My problems with this are

    1) What does a union have anything to do "representing" workers that aren't supporting said union?

    2) Regardless of which story you believe, a business can close a location for any reason they choose and the government has no power to force them to remain open. Then again, they think they have the power to force us to purchase services, so I guess their flawed logic makes sense to them.

    3) The workers are complaining of no guarantee of getting their jobs back, but that's normal for business.

    4) If the workers are that upset at working conditions at a company known for low pay and not many true career opportunities, why are they still working there? The story reported the protests started in 2012. You mean to tell me that in all this time, the few employees that have been there that long of a stretch (face it, turnover is high at Wal-Mart), haven't been able to find anything better?
    04-20-2015 06:04 PM
  8. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I guess now it doesn't matter if there's even a union or not at your company.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/20...html?referrer=

    Basically a union, of which doesn't officially represent Wal-Mart workers or collect dues from them, has stepped in to petition the NLRB to force Wal-Mart to re-hire workers that were laid off due to store closings. They claim the store was closed as retaliation for workers protesting wages and such. Wal-Mart says it's a group of stores with plumbing issues, with a record of problems, and is a temporary closure. (As a side note, I've noticed they like to run their sink water extra hot, so who knows.)

    My problems with this are

    1) What does a union have anything to do "representing" workers that aren't supporting said union?

    2) Regardless of which story you believe, a business can close a location for any reason they choose and the government has no power to force them to remain open. Then again, they think they have the power to force us to purchase services, so I guess their flawed logic makes sense to them.

    3) The workers are complaining of no guarantee of getting their jobs back, but that's normal for business.

    4) If the workers are that upset at working conditions at a company known for low pay and not many true career opportunities, why are they still working there? The story reported the protests started in 2012. You mean to tell me that in all this time, the few employees that have been there that long of a stretch (face it, turnover is high at Wal-Mart), haven't been able to find anything better?
    Hmmm, while I agree that businesses have the ability to close, you have to wonder if that can be used as some sort of weapon against workers.

    I am not saying that is necessarily the case here, but is is unlikely and thus fishy that five separate stores would all have plumbing problems that all would require the same six month length of time to fix (which in itself odd..plumbing problems don't take that long).

    It's also really suspicious that there is no permits filed with the city of Pico Rivera for any work to be done. So I doubt that is the real reason, though I don't think it has to be related to labor issues either. Whatever the reason, Walmart is lying I think. Things just don't add up.
    04-21-2015 01:38 AM
  9. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I actually hesitated to put retail...

    We are 100 years at least from robots being cost effective in the vast majority of roles like being a custodian. While we have much of the required technology now to make it happen, the cost to implement and maintain is outrageous. Robots are still very stupid creatures when you get down to it. It requires very intelligent people to make the robots look(and in some cases be) intelligent.

    The point I am making is that the world is not segregated like it used to be. Labor no longer needs to be local and there are other areas of the world that can readily compete with our work force. We must find ways to make our workers and jobs more valuable. Right now low skill labor is no more valuable than that of Mexico or China, but we demand a higher price. This cannot be sustained long term. We must raise expectations.

    Sent from my XT1096
    100 years away? Doubtful. Look at where things were 100 years ago vs. where they are now. Technology and cost reduction moves fairly quickly now.
    04-21-2015 01:42 AM
  10. anon8126715's Avatar
    Hmmm, while I agree that businesses have the ability to close, you have to wonder if that can be used as some sort of weapon against workers.

    I am not saying that is necessarily the case here, but is is unlikely and thus fishy that five separate stores would all have plumbing problems that all would require the same six month length of time to fix (which in itself odd..plumbing problems don't take that long).

    It's also really suspicious that there is no permits filed with the city of Pico Rivera for any work to be done. So I doubt that is the real reason, though I don't think it has to be related to labor issues either. Whatever the reason, Walmart is lying I think. Things just don't add up.
    C'mon now, don't you know that corporate America can do no wrong? I mean sure they're "people", but have you ever seen one thrown in jail or executed? Hell, even a simple DUI, but no those Corpo-Americans are some of the most innocent "people" on the face of this earth. /sarcasm
    04-21-2015 05:06 AM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    It's also really suspicious that there is no permits filed with the city of Pico Rivera for any work to be done. So I doubt that is the real reason, though I don't think it has to be related to labor issues either. Whatever the reason, Walmart is lying I think. Things just don't add up.
    I'm not familiar with permitting processes. Would you agree that it's plausible Wal-Mart has to get a contractor in there to figure out exactly what needs to be done first so they then know which permits needs to be filled? I did find this article, which was originally from Rueters.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/r-wor...liation-2015-4

    Pico Rivera City Manager Rene Bobadilla described the sudden manner in which the company closed the store as "abnormal" but said the city had offered its help to expedite the work needed to be done to get the store open again.

    "It’s the first time I’ve encountered this. It is not a normal thing to happen," Bobadilla said. He declined to comment further on Wal-Mart's actions. "The only fact is they are saying they have a sewer problem and they are going to be closed for six months."
    So now we'd have to question if the city is part of a sham, if they'll find out Wal-Mart was bluffing, or if the sewer problems are legit.

    Come to think of it, the same type of people that would complain about this are the same type of people that protest Wal-Mart building in the first place. So wouldn't this be seen as a good thing to them? Which is it, either they want Wal-Mart or they don't. Seems hypocritical to me. Why not start trying to make Wal-Mart move out permanently and get in another business they can support?

    In all fairness, I'm not 100% pro-Wal-Mart either. We have 2 where I live and they wanted a third built in a downtown district. I was against that one for a number of reasons.
    04-21-2015 10:14 AM
  12. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I'm not familiar with permitting processes. Would you agree that it's plausible Wal-Mart has to get a contractor in there to figure out exactly what needs to be done first so they then know which permits needs to be filled? I did find this article, which was originally from Rueters.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/r-wor...liation-2015-4



    So now we'd have to question if the city is part of a sham, if they'll find out Wal-Mart was bluffing, or if the sewer problems are legit.

    Come to think of it, the same type of people that would complain about this are the same type of people that protest Wal-Mart building in the first place. So wouldn't this be seen as a good thing to them? Which is it, either they want Wal-Mart or they don't. Seems hypocritical to me. Why not start trying to make Wal-Mart move out permanently and get in another business they can support?

    In all fairness, I'm not 100% pro-Wal-Mart either. We have 2 where I live and they wanted a third built in a downtown district. I was against that one for a number of reasons.
    The problem with your contractor theory is that Walmart already set a timetable. The same timetable for each store. For the same reason you question that permits cannot be filed until you know what work needs to be done, I question how Walmart can assign a timeframe to it if they don't even know what the specific problem is. And question how these "plumbing problems" can occur in five different stores in three states all at the same time and take the same amount of time to fix.

    Even to the city manager it is "abnormal" and something not seen before. And I'd think a city manager would be in a position to know.
    04-21-2015 01:45 PM
  13. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I'll give you that, and another question is why would Wal-Mart go to such elaborate lengths if it were retaliation? Surely they wouldn't use something like this as an excuse when it's involve so many outside people. Going through the permitting process not only means the city would know about the projects, but it would also list the contractors involved that could be asked to verify the work. It could likely involve code inspectors after the fact to make sure the work is done properly. I don't see any company attempting to pull of such an elaborate scheme with those outside forces in play. They'd be better off just closing the stores with an excuse like they were not profitable enough, high theft rates, relocation, etc. And as was referenced in my first story on this, Wal-Mart was pretty open about not opening some Canadian stores due to unions.
    04-21-2015 02:18 PM
  14. NoYankees44's Avatar
    The reason those degrees are in the toilet is because companies lobby Congress to get work visas for countries that mass produce individuals that have a piece of paper that claims they can do something that they're more than likely not qualified to do. You inject the market with a cheap source of labor and then thousands of people with the degree are suddenly force to take less pay or follow different career paths. Ask yourself what your field would be like if thousands of foreign people were allowed to do what you do with minimal training. Do you think the salary you make now would be possible? No one is immune.

    Have you ever seen the movie Falling Down with Michael Douglas? I recommend you watch it if anything because Michael Douglas gets to do all the things that the average man would love to do to blow off steam. There's a scene where a black man is protesting a bank because he is refused a loan. He tells Michael Douglas' character that they turned him down because he was not "economically viable".

    You are correct. No one is immune. While these workers may be subpar, they are obviously doing a reasonable job or companies would not be able to continue using them. So I pose the same question: Why can more adequately trained employees not differentiate themselves and be effectively more valuable and command a higher wage? If companies can get the same work done with less skilled workers, then it seems that the job never required more highly trained workers to begin with.

    I work in engineering. I constantly compete with workers from around the world that may or may not have an engineering degree, but rather a technology degree. Technology degrees are many times sufficient, depending on the specific work, but both engineers and technicians are considered and chosen for the positions. So people with higher level skills have to differentiate themselves from those doing the same jobs around them in order to command higher wages. I have been there myself and have had to overcome the problem.

    Everything is about what you make of yourself. If the position you are in does not allow you to strive for better, then it's time to find a new position.

    Sent from my XT1096
    04-21-2015 02:47 PM
  15. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I'll give you that, and another question is why would Wal-Mart go to such elaborate lengths if it were retaliation? Surely they wouldn't use something like this as an excuse when it's involve so many outside people. Going through the permitting process not only means the city would know about the projects, but it would also list the contractors involved that could be asked to verify the work. It could likely involve code inspectors after the fact to make sure the work is done properly. I don't see any company attempting to pull of such an elaborate scheme with those outside forces in play. They'd be better off just closing the stores with an excuse like they were not profitable enough, high theft rates, relocation, etc. And as was referenced in my first story on this, Wal-Mart was pretty open about not opening some Canadian stores due to unions.
    Agreed. But they couldn't close a store as "unprofitable" and then reopen it again as they clearly are planning to do. So it still makes no sense what they are doing or the way they are going about it. It will be interesting to look through the records and see what work was actually done to these stores and how long it really took.
    04-21-2015 05:10 PM
  16. Mooncatt's Avatar
    It will be interesting to look through the records and see what work was actually done to these stores and how long it really took.
    I'm sure there will be many people doing just that in 6 months.
    04-21-2015 05:52 PM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    You are correct. No one is immune. While these workers may be subpar, they are obviously doing a reasonable job or companies would not be able to continue using them. So I pose the same question: Why can more adequately trained employees not differentiate themselves and be effectively more valuable and command a higher wage? If companies can get the same work done with less skilled workers, then it seems that the job never required more highly trained workers to begin with.

    I work in engineering. I constantly compete with workers from around the world that may or may not have an engineering degree, but rather a technology degree. Technology degrees are many times sufficient, depending on the specific work, but both engineers and technicians are considered and chosen for the positions. So people with higher level skills have to differentiate themselves from those doing the same jobs around them in order to command higher wages. I have been there myself and have had to overcome the problem.

    Everything is about what you make of yourself. If the position you are in does not allow you to strive for better, then it's time to find a new position.

    Sent from my XT1096
    The problem is that it's mostly arbitrary. Lets look at the top echelon of every company, the position of CEO. That position's salary has increased exponentially. Why? About the only skill that's changed in that position in it's contemporary form is that everything now is more global. Yet somehow we're led to believe that the position requires a compensation that equals the salary of a few hundred/thousand employees. What's worse is when a CEO drives a company to the verge of bankruptcy and is given a golden parachute. One thing I will say about a union shop is that you don't often hear about their CEO making insane amounts of money and leaving the company with millions. If you look at a non-unionized company and its' CEO's compensation and compare it to a foreign company's compensation package for their CEO, the disparity is much higher than that of a unionized company's compensation package. 100 Highest Paid CEOs If you can justify these salaries then maybe you should be selling oceanfront property in Kansas.
    04-22-2015 05:01 AM
  18. NoYankees44's Avatar
    The problem is that it's mostly arbitrary. Lets look at the top echelon of every company, the position of CEO. That position's salary has increased exponentially. Why? About the only skill that's changed in that position in it's contemporary form is that everything now is more global. Yet somehow we're led to believe that the position requires a compensation that equals the salary of a few hundred/thousand employees. What's worse is when a CEO drives a company to the verge of bankruptcy and is given a golden parachute. One thing I will say about a union shop is that you don't often hear about their CEO making insane amounts of money and leaving the company with millions. If you look at a non-unionized company and its' CEO's compensation and compare it to a foreign company's compensation package for their CEO, the disparity is much higher than that of a unionized company's compensation package. 100 Highest Paid CEOs If you can justify these salaries then maybe you should be selling oceanfront property in Kansas.
    The American vs Japanese auto companies are in stark contrast to your point. Japanese ceo's generally make magnitudes less than their American counterparts and none of their facilities are unionized.

    Sent from my XT1096
    04-22-2015 09:32 AM
  19. Scott7217's Avatar
    I wonder if this will lead to another round of RPF increases, since they won't raise the price for service (or so they say,) except possibly for unlimited data.
    From the article, it looks like the National Labor Relations Board is asking T-Mobile to change its e-mail and confidentiality policies. It doesn't look like the government is levying a fine, so I'm not sure if T-Mobile will increase its Regulatory Programs Fees.

    Maybe T-Mobile's participation in Project Fi with Google and Sprint will help its standing in the mobile marketplace:

    Google Official Blog -- Say hi to Fi: A new way to say hello (website link)
    04-23-2015 04:06 PM
  20. anon8126715's Avatar
    The American vs Japanese auto companies are in stark contrast to your point. Japanese ceo's generally make magnitudes less than their American counterparts and none of their facilities are unionized.

    Sent from my XT1096
    You are correct, but just think how much MORE the U.S. CEO would make if these companies WEREN'T unionized.

    At GM, CEO pay on any given year could be as much as two hundred times what an assembly-line worker would have taken home; at Toyota, it was about a tenth of that. In 2006, for example, then CEO Wagoner made more than the top twenty-one executives at Honda combined, and somewhere in the order of fifteen times the salary of his equivalent at Toyota. The difference was not, shall we say, performance based.
    Do you think CEOs would ask for less money if their companies were de-unionized?
    04-23-2015 07:19 PM
  21. NoYankees44's Avatar
    You are correct, but just think how much MORE the U.S. CEO would make if these companies WEREN'T unionized.



    Do you think CEOs would ask for less money if their companies were de-unionized?
    I am not concerned with what a ceo makes usually. They make whatever the company is willing to pay them. The only time I am concerned is when they do not take a pay cut whenever the company does poorly. For I see the success of the company as a ceo's merit based reviews. Other than that, their pay does not concern me.

    Sent from my XT1096
    04-24-2015 12:07 PM
  22. anon8126715's Avatar
    I am not concerned with what a ceo makes usually. They make whatever the company is willing to pay them. The only time I am concerned is when they do not take a pay cut whenever the company does poorly. For I see the success of the company as a ceo's merit based reviews. Other than that, their pay does not concern me.

    Sent from my XT1096
    You should be, especially if they're one of the ones that gut a company then take their golden parachute to another company.
    04-24-2015 05:28 PM
  23. Scott7217's Avatar
    I don't think anyone can deny they are mostly consumer-friendly with their stuff .. more than others .. But at the end of the day of course they are a carrier, a business, and care about the $$ .... I mean .. Let's all be real for a second..
    Lots of companies have to deal with unions. T-Mobile will just be another name on that list.

    Still, if T-Mobile has to pay higher labor costs, it will be less competitive with AT&T and Verizon, who have much better signal coverage.

    It would be sad to see T-Mobile go out of business. America needs more choice in wireless carriers, not less.
    04-28-2015 06:18 PM
  24. Mooncatt's Avatar
    And now the Texas governor is dispatching the national guard to monitor U.S. military training exercises, in part because some right wing nuts think the Wal-Mart store closings in Texas are to modify them into some sort of secret government holding facility. These are part of the same closings for plumbing repairs as the California one that the left is all up in arms about claiming it's anti-union retaliation.

    Trying to spin all these conspiracy theories together is mind boggling, and Wal-Mart is now getting it from both sides.
    05-10-2015 09:30 AM
  25. Timelessblur's Avatar
    If a company can deal with the quality deficit when running such labor, then they can. I would be much more concerned with why someone can copy paste cookie cutter code and do a comparable job to what I went to college for.

    Computer science and similar degrees from my point of view have been a toilet in the last 10 years or so. I have known many to graduate with such degrees and have a hard time. It has gotten so bad that I have started advising those that want such degrees to go the extra mile and get a degree in computer engineering or to find another field.

    A degree or training guarantees nothing. What you do with the degree and how you differentiate yourself is what matters.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Just going to start off most people with a Computer Science degree have the wrong degree. Myself included in this. The correct degree would of been software engineering but sadly that is just starting to become available.
    I also would like to point out Computer engineering and Computer science are not even close to the same thing. They are very difference. Compute Engineering is much more closely related to Electrical engineering than Computer Science.
    Computer Science compared to Software engineering is a lot like the relationship between Chemistry degree and a Chemical engineering degree. One is a pure science and the other is application of said science. They are different things.

    That being said people should not be going to be a programmer. Lets face it programmers are a easily replaceable and sadly can be farmed out. Developer is very different. That is more thinking threw and figuring out how it should be programmed. It is much independent of the language. It is thinking threw the architecture.

    Now the work VISA programs every time a companies claims they can not find skilled workers here in the US you know they are full of it and telling a bold face lie. The proof of this is simply looking at the wage of tech workers. The fact that wages are not going up faster than inflation tells us that there is not a short supply. If their was a short supply wages would be going up a lot faster than inflations compared to reality that they are flat not even keeping up with inflations. The wages from 5 years ago in tech field are the same as they are today.
    This screams it is work they are trying to suppress wages.

    Not related to your post. Saw it earlier but people scream about Right to Work. Right to Work is the wrong name. It is the feel good name. It is really right to fire and suppresses wages. People claim oh you can fight for your own pay but the reality is you are on uneven footing. Majority of people who not have that skill set. It is not something they do every day going up against someone who that is their job. That is in their wheel house. It is not even footing at all. Unions try even the footing.

    But hey Right to work is a Feel good name. Just call it what it is. Right to Fire. But that would have people in an uprour and the people backing it would have a hard time defending it. Right now our system is WAY WAY to top heavy.
    05-10-2015 01:53 PM
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