04-15-2015 10:25 PM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    lol, not just that, but they act as if heterosexuals do so much for marriage.
    04-09-2015 08:55 PM
  2. Scott7217's Avatar
    My opinion is that if you have those kinds of feelings, then what's to say that you're going to do your best for other customers of differing races/religions?
    The way I see it, if I force someone to do something, they'll just resent me for it, and I'll probably end up with something that's poorly executed.

    I would rather hire someone who will put their heart and soul into their work to make me happy. There's nothing wrong with that.
    04-10-2015 04:48 AM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    The way I see it, if I force someone to do something, they'll just resent me for it, and I'll probably end up with something that's poorly executed.

    I would rather hire someone who will put their heart and soul into their work to make me happy. There's nothing wrong with that.
    If they have these ill feelings towards one class then what's to say they won't have those feelings towards another class? A true professional master of their craft will produce regardless of the recipient of their goods/services. If they choose to only serve certain people over their self proclaimed "religious belief" then they aren't true to their craft and should probably go find another craft, maybe in some dark basement mass producing widgets to be distributed by someone that doesn't judge their customer based on the color of their skin, their gender, their religious beliefs or their sexual orientation.
    04-10-2015 07:26 AM
  4. GadgetGator's Avatar
    The way I see it, if I force someone to do something, they'll just resent me for it, and I'll probably end up with something that's poorly executed.

    I would rather hire someone who will put their heart and soul into their work to make me happy. There's nothing wrong with that.
    That's nice in theory, but the reality is that if you live in a small town and cannot travel elsewhere, you might not have any other options. There might only be one or two bigoted florist or bakers in town.

    It's funny...civil rights for blacks have been in place for decades, and in all that time I have never heard people say, "why don't you people just go elsewhere?" Blacks forced businesses to accept them as equal at the same lunch counter. And in the same pools.They didn't go somewhere else. Everyone seems to understand that was wrong and discrimination. Why don't you understand that here?

    A business should serve everyone equally. If they can not do that, then get the hell out of running a business..

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-10-2015 12:05 PM
  5. Scott7217's Avatar
    A true professional master of their craft will produce regardless of the recipient of their goods/services.
    So, let's say a caterer is a Democrat. A representative of former vice-president Cheney wants to hire the caterer to serve food at a luncheon honoring Cheney.

    Can the caterer say no? I would think that the caterer should be able to say no.

    However, if you're saying that the caterer must serve regardless of the recipient, then the caterer will be forced into an undesirable situation.
    04-10-2015 01:31 PM
  6. vinnie_boombhats's Avatar
    Business is business. Gay dollars pay the bills just as well as straight dollars do.
    Scott7217 and GadgetGator like this.
    04-10-2015 01:39 PM
  7. Scott7217's Avatar
    That's nice in theory, but the reality is that if you live in a small town and cannot travel elsewhere, you might not have any other options. There might only be one or two bigoted florist or bakers in town.
    That's why we need to look at the facts of the situation.

    The pizzeria in Indiana said that they would serve gay people who walked into their restaurant.

    The florist in Washington state sold flowers to the gay man on 20 occasions.

    So it's not like people weren't being served at all.
    04-10-2015 01:53 PM
  8. GadgetGator's Avatar
    That's why we need to look at the facts of the situation.

    The pizzeria in Indiana said that they would serve gay people who walked into their restaurant.

    The florist in Washington state sold flowers to the gay man on 20 occasions.

    So it's not like people weren't being served at all.
    Seriously...why do you keep dodging the issue and missing the point? You do the same thing hard right wingers do...just like in the Chic-fil-a case. "Well, it's not like they weren't be fed in the restaurant". Completely missing the point. Or is it that you DO realize it's discrimination but want to deflect and avoid the issue?

    If you aren't treating everyone the same, then you are discriminating, whether it's a separate lunch counter, or wedding for one but not another.

    But what about religious views?! People can have all the views they want. Don't like gay marriages? Then don't have one yourself. But there is NOTHING in the bible....NOTHING, that says thall shall not provide cake or flowers for others. Nothing. There is no religious justification for that.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-10-2015 04:52 PM
  9. vinnie_boombhats's Avatar
    The problem with a lot of religious types is, they swallow what is force fed to them, then they regurgitate it back up.
    GadgetGator and Scott7217 like this.
    04-10-2015 04:57 PM
  10. Scott7217's Avatar
    Selling to a gay couple for their wedding isn't condoning their sexual orientation, it's SELLING FLOWERS.
    You are free to disagree with the florist on what constitutes condoning or not condoning a particular sexual orientation. That's the benefit of living in America. We are allowed to disagree.

    By the way, the florist was willing to sell to the gay couple for their wedding. So many people conveniently leave that detail out.
    04-10-2015 05:39 PM
  11. Scott7217's Avatar
    Business is business.
    I would agree that business is business.

    If you don't like that one pizzeria, try the other 3 pizzerias in that town.

    If you don't like that one florist, try the other 6 florists in that town.

    It's better to give money to those places that appreciate your business.
    04-10-2015 05:43 PM
  12. Scott7217's Avatar
    A business should serve everyone equally. If they can not do that, then get the hell out of running a business..
    Honestly, I simply won't give my money to a business that I don't like. Giving them my money only keeps them in business longer, which would be contrary to my goal if I want them to go out of business.
    04-10-2015 05:50 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    The problem with a lot of religious types is, they swallow what is force fed to them, then they regurgitate it back up.
    Just don't mention that a lot of politicians of both political parties often follow a religion. It will shatter the illusion.

    For example, Joe Biden is Roman Catholic. We know that the Catholic church opposes same-sex marriage.

    I heard Hillary Clinton will announce her run for president soon. She's Methodist. The United Methodist Church also doesn't approve of same-sex marriage.
    04-10-2015 05:55 PM
  14. vinnie_boombhats's Avatar
    I would agree that business is business.

    If you don't like that one pizzeria, try the other 3 pizzerias in that town.

    If you don't like that one florist, try the other 6 florists in that town.

    It's better to give money to those places that appreciate your business.
    You are correct sir. I am not intending to single out any one business. Just any that condone discrimination. Discrimination is sickening, it really boils my blood. And I certainly would not give a single cent of my hard earned money to any business guilty of such disgusting behaviour! Sometimes I wish that those who hate for no reason other than to hate, would wake up one morning in the body of those that they hate.
    GadgetGator and Scott7217 like this.
    04-10-2015 05:59 PM
  15. vinnie_boombhats's Avatar
    Just don't mention that a lot of politicians of both political parties often follow a religion. It will shatter the illusion.

    For example, Joe Biden is Roman Catholic. We know that the Catholic church opposes same-sex marriage.

    I heard Hillary Clinton will announce her run for president soon. She's Methodist. The United Methodist Church also doesn't approve of same-sex marriage.
    Just remember, not all politicians are bad, some are dead.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    04-10-2015 06:10 PM
  16. GadgetGator's Avatar
    I would agree that business is business.

    If you don't like that one pizzeria, try the other 3 pizzerias in that town.

    If you don't like that one florist, try the other 6 florists in that town.

    It's better to give money to those places that appreciate your business.
    And this completely fails to address the point I raised in my earlier post today: What if there IS no other pizzeria, florist or bakery in town?

    People in big cities have that option of doing what you suggested. People in smaller more rural areas do not.

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-10-2015 06:24 PM
  17. anon8126715's Avatar
    So, let's say a caterer is a Democrat. A representative of former vice-president Cheney wants to hire the caterer to serve food at a luncheon honoring Cheney.

    Can the caterer say no? I would think that the caterer should be able to say no.

    However, if you're saying that the caterer must serve regardless of the recipient, then the caterer will be forced into an undesirable situation.
    So a professional athlete is playing for a city/team/owner that he doesn't like, should he perform less than his best because he doesn't like his city/team/ownership? The less professional AND less successful athletes will play below their skill set where the TRUE PROFESSIONALS will give 110%.

    If I ran a business, the only business I would refuse is something like the example someone posted earlier, someone trying to order something that was going to be used in a hateful or disparaging manner. I would want my products and/or services to be used in a positive manner, not to help spread someone's message of hate.
    GadgetGator likes this.
    04-10-2015 07:12 PM
  18. Scott7217's Avatar
    And this completely fails to address the point I raised in my earlier post today: What if there IS no other pizzeria, florist or bakery in town?
    Then you need to specify the location where this is happening so that people can focus their resources on building another pizzeria, florist, and bakery in that town.

    If necessary, we can get others who are sympathetic to the LGBT community involved. You liked my idea of using the NFL. If that isn't enough, we can get Apple, Google, Microsoft, the NCAA, Angie's List, and Wal-Mart on board.
    04-10-2015 07:19 PM
  19. Scott7217's Avatar
    So a professional athlete is playing for a city/team/owner that he doesn't like, should he perform less than his best because he doesn't like his city/team/ownership?
    Professional athletes willingly sign a contract to play for a team. If they don't want to play for a specific team, they are not forced to sign the contract.

    If conditions were to change after the contract is signed, there is the option to trade athletes between teams. You can get an athlete who is more willing to replace the one who is not.
    04-10-2015 07:26 PM
  20. anon8126715's Avatar
    Professional athletes willingly sign a contract to play for a team. If they don't want to play for a specific team, they are not forced to sign the contract.

    If conditions were to change after the contract is signed, there is the option to trade athletes between teams. You can get an athlete who is more willing to replace the one who is not.
    And when you open up a business, you have a business charter which spells out what goods and services you are agreeing to provide to the GENERAL PUBLIC. I'm still not sure why you're comfortable with this form of discrimination. Back a few decades ago, the bigotry was against mixed marriages (different races marrying). If you're ok with this type of discrimination, then are you also ok with discriminating against mixed marriages where the bride and groom are of different races? If not, then please explain to me how you think each form is different than the other.
    04-10-2015 07:42 PM
  21. Scott7217's Avatar
    You are correct sir. I am not intending to single out any one business. Just any that condone discrimination. Discrimination is sickening, it really boils my blood. And I certainly would not give a single cent of my hard earned money to any business guilty of such disgusting behaviour!
    Thank you for those comments.

    The way I see it, if you force someone to bake a cake or arrange flowers for a wedding they don't support, you're only getting an illusion. Deep down inside, the people you are forcing really don't want to be at the wedding.

    What if the wedding officiant asks, "If anyone is opposed to this union, speak now or forever hold your peace"? Are you going to silence the baker or florist? Is this what people want at their wedding?

    I say give your money to someone who is worthy of it. There are a lot of bakers and florists who would love to offer their services at a same-sex wedding. Why not give them a chance?
    04-10-2015 07:48 PM
  22. vinnie_boombhats's Avatar
    So a professional athlete is playing for a city/team/owner that he doesn't like, should he perform less than his best because he doesn't like his city/team/ownership? The less professional AND less successful athletes will play below their skill set where the TRUE PROFESSIONALS will give 110%.
    Sounds like you are describing half, if not more of the cry babies, that believe they are entitled to behave in this manner, simply because they can, run, catch, throw a ball. There should be a wasambulance clause, that allows the team to drop them like the stuff that clings to the toilet bowl after Taco Bell and a night of heavy drinking.
    Scott7217 and A895 like this.
    04-10-2015 08:04 PM
  23. Scott7217's Avatar
    And when you open up a business, you have a business charter which spells out what goods and services you are agreeing to provide to the GENERAL PUBLIC.
    Just to be clear, you haven't disagreed with my explanation about the professional athletes or catering Cheney's luncheon. So at least we're making progress.

    As for accommodating the general public, you need to look at what was actually done. The florist in Washington state served the gay man 20 times. He purchased approximately $4,500 in flowers. There were no prior complaints.

    For the wedding, the gay man admitted in court documents that he wanted something "very simple and understated." The exact order was for "sticks or twigs in a vase."

    Under oath, the florist admitted that she would have sold him the materials. It never got to that point because the gay man was angry at the florist for her religious beliefs. He then filed a lawsuit.

    Honestly, I don't see the problem in placing an order for a vase full of sticks or twigs and picking them up on the day of the wedding. Even a member of the wedding party could stop by the florist shop to pick up the order.

    As for the arrangement... it's sticks... or twigs... in a vase. Do we need instructions on how to put sticks or twigs inside a vase? (Hint: One end of the vase is open.)
    04-10-2015 08:14 PM
  24. GadgetGator's Avatar
    Then you need to specify the location where this is happening so that people can focus their resources on building another pizzeria, florist, and bakery in that town.

    If necessary, we can get others who are sympathetic to the LGBT community involved. You liked my idea of using the NFL. If that isn't enough, we can get Apple, Google, Microsoft, the NCAA, Angie's List, and Wal-Mart on board.
    That takes time.....why should a gay couple have to wait when heterosexual couples would not?

    Posted via Android Central App
    04-10-2015 08:24 PM
  25. GadgetGator's Avatar
    And when you open up a business, you have a business charter which spells out what goods and services you are agreeing to provide to the GENERAL PUBLIC. I'm still not sure why you're comfortable with this form of discrimination. Back a few decades ago, the bigotry was against mixed marriages (different races marrying). If you're ok with this type of discrimination, then are you also ok with discriminating against mixed marriages where the bride and groom are of different races? If not, then please explain to me how you think each form is different than the other.
    Yes. I would like Scott to answer that question too. Based on that answer I may have an additional question.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Scott7217 likes this.
    04-10-2015 08:29 PM
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