04-15-2015 10:25 PM
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  1. anon8126715's Avatar
    It's obvious that this law was worded by the same party that brought you "Death Tax", "Death Panels", "Defense of Marriage", and other policies that are anything but what they are spelled out to be.

    Indiana's anti-LGBT law a preview for 2016? - CNN.com

    What's your take? To me it seems pretty obvious that it's set up to allow people to discriminate against LGBT groups. My opinion of it is that if it gives companies a right to legally discriminate against people, then I'm going to refuse to do businesses with companies based out of Indiana. This reminds me of the "Whites Only" businesses. Back then people that that was also ok. When will they learn?!?!
    A895 and GadgetGator like this.
    03-29-2015 05:48 PM
  2. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I say instead of the businesses boycotting the state, they should open up and proudly advertise they welcome gays.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    03-29-2015 06:21 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    I say instead of the businesses boycotting the state, they should open up and proudly advertise they welcome gays.
    But considering the state enacted the law, they need to suffer economically for such laws. So I'm guessing you also believe the law is set up to allow businesses to discriminate?
    03-29-2015 06:40 PM
  4. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I question why government on all levels feels the need to create some new law or regulation every time some new issue pops up in the first place.
    NoYankees44 and Scott7217 like this.
    03-29-2015 06:51 PM
  5. A895's Avatar
    create some new law or regulation every time some new issue pops up in the first place.
    Law
    Issue
    Are we supposed to let problems like discrimination solve themselves?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    GadgetGator and msndrstood like this.
    03-29-2015 07:21 PM
  6. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Are as supposed to let problems like discrimination solve themselves?
    Government is to the point where I look upon most any proposal with a critical eye. You'll never be able to legislate morality, which is what's in question here. I saw a political cartoon recently that turned things around, where a KKK couple was trying to get a wedding cake from a black baker. Would you suggest the baker be forced to bake that cake?

    That's why I worded my first reply like I did. Instead of being negative and passing laws against people's morality, be positive and promote your choice to be welcoming to all. As the saying goes, you attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    03-29-2015 08:38 PM
  7. anon8126715's Avatar
    Government is to the point where I look upon most any proposal with a critical eye. You'll never be able to legislate morality, which is what's in question here. I saw a political cartoon recently that turned things around, where a KKK couple was trying to get a wedding cake from a black baker. Would you suggest the baker be forced to bake that cake?

    That's why I worded my first reply like I did. Instead of being negative and passing laws against people's morality, be positive and promote your choice to be welcoming to all. As the saying goes, you attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
    Do you really think that a KKK couple would ask a black baker to bake them a cake? The black baker could see it as an opportunity to bake the best cake he's ever baked, if anything to get the satisfaction of knowing that these KKK members would have to tell their other KKK friends who baked them a great cake. Now if the KKK members asked for something derogatory to be spelled out on the cake, then I can see where one might take issue with that. This law is specifically set up to allow religious people to discriminate against other people. What would be next, "Well I provided my services to this couple at a cheaper price because they practice the same religion I practice".
    A895 likes this.
    03-29-2015 11:06 PM
  8. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Do you really think that a KKK couple would ask a black baker to bake them a cake?
    There's people all over that will bait others to create a problem where one didn't exist, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone in the KKK did try something like that. And like the "activist lawyer" in Austin and the "hands up, don't shoot" crowd, many people have been known to create a hoax and lie to get their message out if they don't have any actual problems to point to.

    What would be next, "Well I provided my services to this couple at a cheaper price because they practice the same religion I practice".
    There's nothing stopping a business owner from doing things like that now. Many places offer discounts based on group associations, and who knows how many give discounts to others simply because they know the customer personally. So that last point is moot already. Heck, I've seen people offer a discount to customers simply because they have a shared interest. Personally, I'm ok with that.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    03-30-2015 07:47 AM
  9. A895's Avatar
    Government is to the point where I look upon most any proposal with a critical eye. You'll never be able to legislate morality, which is what's in question here. I saw a political cartoon recently that turned things around, where a KKK couple was trying to get a wedding cake from a black baker. Would you suggest the baker be forced to bake that cake?

    That's why I worded my first reply like I did. Instead of being negative and passing laws against people's morality, be positive and promote your choice to be welcoming to all. As the saying goes, you attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
    You can legislate racism, anti discriminatory laws, hate speech, 13th Amendment. The list goes on. If you remember there were laws that discriminates against nonwhites, what makes discriminating people based on sexual preference okay?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Scott7217 likes this.
    03-30-2015 09:44 AM
  10. A895's Avatar
    There's people all over that will bait others to create a problem where one didn't exist, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone in the KKK did try something like that. And like the "activist lawyer" in Austin and the "hands up, don't shoot" crowd, many people have been known to create a hoax and lie to get their message out if they don't have any actual problems to point to..
    You lost all credibility with this.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    03-30-2015 09:46 AM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    You lost all credibility with this.
    I guess the truth hurts.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    03-30-2015 10:56 AM
  12. NoYankees44's Avatar
    From a macro standpoint, the question is where to draw the line. At what point are we attempting to legislate morality? Many times, social justice is all the Justice that needs to be had. If society does not like the way a business conducts itself, society will persecute that business. No potentially dangerous laws needed and the Freedom of the business to conduct itself how it wishes(and its ability to fail or succeed based on that conduct) is retained.

    Now for this specific issue, I will have to look into it more.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Scott7217 likes this.
    03-30-2015 12:14 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    Indiana's anti-LGBT law a preview for 2016? - CNN.com
    LZ Granderson makes a good point in the CNN article with his reference to Representative Barney Frank:

    "But at the end of the day, it's about votes. Frank said when progressives get angry they march in the streets, and when conservatives get mad they march to the polls. If that holds true in 2016, 'winning' is going to feel very strange."

    When the people take an active stance, either through protesting or voting, America wins.
    03-30-2015 04:01 PM
  14. anon8126715's Avatar
    LZ Granderson makes a good point in the CNN article with his reference to Representative Barney Frank:

    "But at the end of the day, it's about votes. Frank said when progressives get angry they march in the streets, and when conservatives get mad they march to the polls. If that holds true in 2016, 'winning' is going to feel very strange."

    When the people take an active stance, either through protesting or voting, America wins.
    I don't think the GOP will win the White House for the next few terms. When Jeb Bush runs, we'll only be almost 8 years removed from his dope of a brother. I would hope that the American people aren't THAT forgetful. The only way I can see the GOP winning is if the next President the Dems field is so horrible that it sways the moderates towards the right.
    A895 likes this.
    03-30-2015 07:24 PM
  15. Scott7217's Avatar
    I don't think the GOP will win the White House for the next few terms.
    When the Republicans aren't available, you simply ask the Democrats to pass the Religious Freedom Restoration Acts.

    The following states have them so far:

    Alabama
    Arizona
    Connecticut
    Florida
    Idaho
    Illinois
    Indiana
    Kansas
    Kentucky
    Louisiana
    Mississippi
    Missouri
    New Mexico
    Oklahoma
    Pennsylvania
    Rhode Island
    South Carolina
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Virginia
    03-30-2015 09:00 PM
  16. anon8126715's Avatar
    When the Republicans aren't available, you simply ask the Democrats to pass the Religious Freedom Restoration Acts.

    The following states have them so far:

    Alabama
    Arizona
    Connecticut
    Florida
    Idaho
    Illinois
    Indiana
    Kansas
    Kentucky
    Louisiana
    Mississippi
    Missouri
    New Mexico
    Oklahoma
    Pennsylvania
    Rhode Island
    South Carolina
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Virginia
    If it's all the same to you, I'd like to call it the "State sanctioned bigotry" act. I'm not sure why you think they would pass it since they're not the party of bigotry.
    A895 likes this.
    03-30-2015 09:46 PM
  17. Scott7217's Avatar
    I'm not sure why you think they would pass it since they're not the party of bigotry.
    This is why it is important to check the actual voting record for the Democrats.

    For example, when Barack Obama was a senator for Illinois, he voted for the the Illinois Religious Freedom Restoration Act in 1998. That act passed 56-0.
    03-30-2015 10:09 PM
  18. A895's Avatar
    I guess the truth hurts.
    Your ignorance hurts.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    03-31-2015 06:24 AM
  19. anon8126715's Avatar
    This is why it is important to check the actual voting record for the Democrats.

    For example, when Barack Obama was a senator for Illinois, he voted for the the Illinois Religious Freedom Restoration Act in 1998. That act passed 56-0.
    It doesn't surprise me that the way it's worded can throw off even politicians. They're not exactly the brightest amongst us.
    A895 likes this.
    03-31-2015 06:50 AM
  20. NoYankees44's Avatar
    Does anyone have a link to a reliable summary of the specifics of the law? A quick Google search has only produced bias dribble. No one seems to be actually discussing the specifics (which is unbelievably sad).

    Sent from my XT1096
    03-31-2015 12:30 PM
  21. bsannes's Avatar
    I read through the act and its not very clear as to the extent that "religious freedom " is being burdened. If this means the person can just deny to serve a single person or it has to be an event or group.

    I think that privately owed business like a bakery or photography place should only be able to deny events that would go against their beliefs such as wedding, social events, and rallies, do to religious views, BUT only if the event has them put their name on, decorate or cater the event that the have objections to. Such as if some one just comes in and wants 50 cupcakes and does not say what it is for they should not be denied , but if asked to make a cake for a "We hate God party" and decorate with that slogan they should be able to say no .

    I do think some one should not be forced to go against their beliefs, but they better be prepared for the fallout for making that stand.

    What really bugged me about this was people like Tim Cook that throws a corperation at a state, it gets scary close to money being more important than the people. Yes I know that corperations play a huge part in out politics but I hate seeing it in the forefront like that. lol
    03-31-2015 12:42 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    I read through the act and its not very clear as to the extent that "religious freedom " is being burdened. If this means the person can just deny to serve a single person or it has to be an event or group.

    I think that privately owed business like a bakery or photography place should only be able to deny events that would go against their beliefs such as wedding, social events, and rallies, do to religious views, BUT only if the event has them put their name on, decorate or cater the event that the have objections to. Such as if some one just comes in and wants 50 cupcakes and does not say what it is for they should not be denied , but if asked to make a cake for a "We hate God party" and decorate with that slogan they should be able to say no .

    I do think some one should not be forced to go against their beliefs, but they better be prepared for the fallout for making that stand.

    What really bugged me about this was people like Tim Cook that throws a corperation at a state, it gets scary close to money being more important than the people. Yes I know that corperations play a huge part in out politics but I hate seeing it in the forefront like that. lol
    Tim Cook is gay, so a bill that let's store owners discriminate against gays would be relevant and worth him speaking on. And I don't think it is ok at all to discriminate. One second they discriminate based on sexual preference, next, they'll use an excuse of "I won't serve people who dress a certain way", then "I won't serve anyone who looks a certain way". It can happen and has happened in the past.

    I don't see how does your beliefs trump your ability to run a business. Anyone who owns a business knows that you can all types of clients and customers. What is the point of refusing to serve gays? It does nothing but make people feel like crap and asserts the belief that your religious beliefs are the right way to live and anything else is stupid and shouldn't be near my business.

    Laws like this is what makes people think America is stupid and nowadays I am inclined to agree. No other large economy country like ours allow their elected representatives push their religious beliefs on everyone else.

    They need to take religion out of laws completely. It makes everything worse not better.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    GadgetGator and msndrstood like this.
    03-31-2015 12:52 PM
  23. bsannes's Avatar
    "Tim Cook is gay, so a bill that let's store owners discriminate against gays would be relevant and worth him speaking on. And I don't think it is ok at all to discriminate. One second they discriminate based on sexual preference, next, they'll use an excuse of "I won't serve people who dress a certain way", then "I won't serve anyone who looks a certain way". It can happen and has happened in the past."

    Tim Cook can say that he does't agree but the words he used was he would put all of apple to stand against and attack any act like this. That is what I have a problem with , he can not support it but to throw a corporation into it makes me unsteady . Lets take your play of escalation, if another company then puts money into attacking things it they don't like and get their way. Americans start losing the ability to vote.
    And about discrimination. Honestly is it discrimination to say I don't agree with something and I don't want my product or service to be used in it? in that case the people doing march madness is threatening discrimination against Indiana saying they might not have there if this passed. What you have is one freedom going against another, but if one freedom in this case freedom of religion has limits on how much it can reach.

    "I don't see how does your beliefs trump your ability to run a business. "
    Here I will say to some their beliefs are the most important thing to them.

    "Anyone who owns a business knows that you can all types of clients and customers. What is the point of refusing to serve gays? "
    To some and I stress some its not "gays" it's an event like a same sex marriage that the are against. And no they shouldn't say no to some just cause they are "gay".

    "It does nothing but make people feel like crap and asserts the belief that your religious beliefs are the right way to live and anything else is stupid and shouldn't be near my business."

    How do you think these people that are being forced to do same sex marriages or do something they don't believe in feel? When they get sued just for not wanting to do something and get threats about it and facing that their government could force them to do it or close?

    "Laws like this is what makes people think America is stupid and nowadays I am inclined to agree. No other large economy country like ours allow their elected representatives push their religious beliefs on everyone else."
    Well this what happens when you have a free nation, peoples own thoughts and feelings go in-front of them thinking . But this law was put to protect the rights of the religious , it was just done in the wrong way.

    "They need to take religion out of laws completely. It makes everything worse not better."
    I agree and disagree at the same time . Religion should be protected but religion should not be forced on others and should not dictate all laws. But the problem is when people believe a way all their thoughts and agendas flow that direction as well.
    Posted via the Android Central App
    03-31-2015 01:35 PM
  24. Scott7217's Avatar
    Does anyone have a link to a reliable summary of the specifics of the law? A quick Google search has only produced bias dribble. No one seems to be actually discussing the specifics (which is unbelievably sad).
    The actual bill (SB 101) is available online. At 5 pages (including 1 signature page), it's not very long, either.

    Senate Bill 101: Indiana General Assembly - 2015 Session (website link)

    From what I've read from SB 101, there is a balance on what people can and cannot do when following their religious beliefs.

    It's not a blank check for people to do whatever they want according to their religion.
    NoYankees44 likes this.
    03-31-2015 03:23 PM
  25. Timelessblur's Avatar
    If it's all the same to you, I'd like to call it the "State sanctioned bigotry" act. I'm not sure why you think they would pass it since they're not the party of bigotry.
    Lets face it. There is a reason why the GOP is the party of Hate and bigotry.
    A vote for GOP = a vote for hate and bigotry.

    For those who do not like that tag line I say tough the truth hurts.
    GadgetGator and A895 like this.
    03-31-2015 05:23 PM
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