06-22-2015 04:39 PM
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  1. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    You really think Obama is responsible single handily for the Arab Spring? Wow. Giving him way too much credit.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    Want to quote where I said he was the only one responsible?

    You can't do it, because I never said that, you just assumed that is what I meant.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    05-18-2015 06:17 PM
  2. Scott7217's Avatar
    I don't executing them would have been too effective is someone wants to retaliate.
    What are the positive qualities of the Taliban Five that would warrant a stay of execution?

    In case you don't remember, here are the names of the Taliban Five:

    Mohammad Fazl

    Khairullah Khairkhwa

    Norullah Noori

    Mohammed Nabi Omari

    Abdul Haq Wasiq
    05-18-2015 10:30 PM
  3. A895's Avatar
    Want to quote where I said he was the only one responsible?

    You can't do it, because I never said that, you just assumed that is what I meant.
    It seemed that is what you said.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-18-2015 11:00 PM
  4. A895's Avatar
    What are the positive qualities of the Taliban Five that would warrant a stay of execution?

    In case you don't remember, here are the names of the Taliban Five:

    Mohammad Fazl

    Khairullah Khairkhwa

    Norullah Noori

    Mohammed Nabi Omari

    Abdul Haq Wasiq
    I am saying antagonizing terrorist groups isn't a smart idea. That's all.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-18-2015 11:01 PM
  5. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    It seemed that is what you said.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    I never said that, nor did it seem like I did.

    You ASSUMED that is what I meant.

    When you can respond to what I actually say, not what you think I am trying to say or what you think I meant, then we might can have a convo.

    You do not do that.

    You respond to what you think people mean, not to what they say.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    05-18-2015 11:10 PM
  6. Scott7217's Avatar
    I am saying antagonizing terrorist groups isn't a smart idea. That's all.
    At least you admit that they are a terrorist group. I'm sure Bush and Cheney would agree with you on that.
    05-18-2015 11:11 PM
  7. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    I am saying antagonizing terrorist groups isn't a smart idea. That's all.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    OHHHHH..so if we don't antagonize terrorist groups, they will stop terrorizing then?

    You can't placate crazy, hate filled people.

    It isn't antagonizing them, it is called justice. You sure don't sit around and do nothing because you are worried you might antagonize the hate filled crazy people.

    Guess we and others should have used that logic when it came to Hitler and worried about antagonizing Hitler.
    Scott7217 and mrsmumbles like this.
    05-18-2015 11:13 PM
  8. A895's Avatar
    I never said that, nor did it seem like I did.

    You ASSUMED that is what I meant.

    When you can respond to what I actually say, not what you think I am trying to say or what you think I meant, then we might can have a convo.

    You do not do that.

    You respond to what you think people mean, not to what they say.
    Whatever.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-19-2015 06:00 PM
  9. A895's Avatar
    OHHHHH..so if we don't antagonize terrorist groups, they will stop terrorizing then?

    You can't placate crazy, hate filled people.

    It isn't antagonizing them, it is called justice. You sure don't sit around and do nothing because you are worried you might antagonize the hate filled crazy people.

    Guess we and others should have used that logic when it came to Hitler and worried about antagonizing Hitler.
    So you did do the same thing you accused me of doing? You just took my words and made your own narrative. I can't gave a conversation with you. You always jump to the extreme and play straw man. And it isn't justice it the United states continual showing that it will respond to extremes with extremes and it show they can manipulate us into undoing ourselves.

    And you even enacted Godwin's law. Good show.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-19-2015 06:03 PM
  10. A895's Avatar
    At least you admit that they are a terrorist group. I'm sure Bush and Cheney would agree with you on that.
    I don't care if they agree with me whether the grass is green and the sky is blue. They both suck.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-19-2015 06:04 PM
  11. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    So you did do the same thing you accused me of doing? You just took my words and made your own narrative. I can't gave a conversation with you. You always jump to the extreme and play straw man. And it isn't justice it the United states continual showing that it will respond to extremes with extremes and it show they can manipulate us into undoing ourselves.

    And you even enacted Godwin's law. Good show.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    No I sure didn't. You said it is not good to antagonize terrorist groups by putting any of their members to death.

    Your statement was very clear, no room for misinterpretation.

    I said something about how deep Obama was involved in Egypt. I never said anything that even intimated Obama was the one and only involved in Arab Spring.

    Those that live in Egypt, have a very good idea how involved Obama was in Arab Spring there. Not only were they clear about it on the streets, but much has come out about it and Obama's dealing with Mubarck.

    Obama was also quite vocal, before it all fell apart, just how much he was involved in Arab Spring and Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood being in power.

    It isn't a secret how involved in that, Obama was.

    If there is a way to antagonize a group, then by default, you can placate the very same group. You can't antagonize terrorists. They hate the people they hate, simply because they live and breathe, not because of anything they have done or don't do.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    05-19-2015 09:07 PM
  12. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Bush and Cheney don't suck anymore than any other politicians.

    Party voting is what is wrong with this country. It doesn't matter what party someone is.

    I still don't understand how someone can disapprove of Bush, but not have a problem with Obama doing the same things.

    Bush polices Obama kept and in some cases, increased:

    Patriot Act

    Drone program

    Unnecessary Spending
    Abusing FISA court

    Continuing a war on terrorism

    Recess appointments

    Obama had two surges in Afghanistan

    Growing and growing the Federal government.

    Increasing our national debt. It is unreal how much Obama has increased our debt. He has more than doubled our entire debt of all presidents before him, combined.

    Increased bombing in Yemen and look at Yemen today. Remember, just a few months ago, Obama called it a success.

    Obama tried to go into Syria, just the same way Bush went into Iraq, even used WMD's as the reason, not long ago, but the people had a fit.

    More bombing in Somalia, called it a success also. If something doesn't happen soon with Yemen, Obama has been warned that Somalia will go the way of Yemen today.

    Funny thing about that, Obama used Yemen and Somalia as success stories of what would happen in Iraq with ISIS. That is a scary thought.

    Fast and Furious

    Bombing in Libya, yet Obama overthrew the regime in Libya, unlike Iraq, we don't have troops there to restore order.

    More deaths in war, more defense spending, more wars. Obama didn't even set up the time to pull out of Iraq, Bush did that before leaving office. Obama never admitted that, he said he ended everything in Iraq. Well he did until recently when ISIS got so bad, then he told the American public what most knew, he didn't negotiate the time to withdraw from Iraq, Bush did.

    The TSA.

    Wars and wars and wars and wars.

    The NDAA

    Let's not even get into whistle-blowers or leakers and using the espionage act against them. In 2013, that act had been used a total of 10 times, I think now it is 11 or 12. Three of those people were from all administrations before Bush and Obama, combined. Two of Obama's under that act, were continued from Bush era investigations. We don't know if they would have been charged under the Bush administration or not, so I'm only willing to give Bush 50% credit for those two. Obama had another one or two in the last year. This charging of journalists with espionage, under the "most transparent administration ever" is ironic, at best.

    "Most tallies, like the one by the investigative service ProPublica, begin with Daniel Ellsberg and the release of the Vietnam War era documents known as the Pentagon Papers. Including Ellsberg, the government has used the Espionage Act 10 times to prosecute government workers who shared classified information with journalists. If we push back to 1945, there is one more case. So of those 11, seven have taken place while Barack Obama has been president."

    http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...act-more-all-/

    Obama has increased the power of the Department of Homeland security and is turning it into a federal police force, not an anti-terrorism force to keep the Homeland safe.

    Bush was really bad to act as a King many times and usurp the power of other branches of government. Obama has taken it to a whole new level.

    As Senator, Obama said this:

    "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

    What threat to us was Libya? I know who Saddam was doing, he was trying to go outside of OPEC and buy and sell oil in other currency beside USD. The petrodollar today, is the "gold standard" of years ago. The petrodollar backs our USD and because of the OPEC agreement that all these countries signed, buying in something other than USD will completely crash our economy. That is an act of war to try and crash our economy.

    Again, what threat was Libya? A totally illegal war.

    Obama went around Congress and illegally released the Taliban 5. He had asked Congress two other times to release the Taliban 5 and both times, he got a "no" and both times, it was unanimous.

    Obama's czars were the exact Executive power centralization that the Democrats were worried about under Bush.

    And there is more and more and more. The difference is, I didn't like it when Bush did it anymore than I like it when Obama does it. Most of those complaining still about the things Bush did, don't seem to realize that Obama continued those things and increased many of them.

    I understand people that loved Bush not liking Obama. I don't understand those that didn't like Bush, liking Obama. That smells of "party voters" to me. Some people are ok with someone under one party doing something, but if someone under a different party does the same thing, they are furious.
    05-19-2015 09:54 PM
  13. Scott7217's Avatar
    I don't care if they agree with me whether the grass is green and the sky is blue. They both suck.
    You certainly have the right to dislike Bush and Cheney, but I will note that your characterization of the Taliban as a terrorist group has not changed. The Taliban massacres civilians, engages in human trafficking, and oppresses those under their rule, especially women.

    What I don't understand is your appeasement of the Taliban.
    05-20-2015 12:10 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    No I sure didn't. You said it is not good to antagonize terrorist groups by putting any of their members to death.

    Your statement was very clear, no room for misinterpretation.

    I said something about how deep Obama was involved in Egypt. I never said anything that even intimated Obama was the one and only involved in Arab Spring.

    Those that live in Egypt, have a very good idea how involved Obama was in Arab Spring there. Not only were they clear about it on the streets, but much has come out about it and Obama's dealing with Mubarck.

    Obama was also quite vocal, before it all fell apart, just how much he was involved in Arab Spring and Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood being in power.

    It isn't a secret how involved in that, Obama was.

    If there is a way to antagonize a group, then by default, you can placate the very same group. You can't antagonize terrorists. They hate the people they hate, simply because they live and breathe, not because of anything they have done or don't do.
    So you don't think executing terrorists would make other terrorists agitated?

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-20-2015 08:38 AM
  15. A895's Avatar
    You certainly have the right to dislike Bush and Cheney, but I will note that your characterization of the Taliban as a terrorist group has not changed. The Taliban massacres civilians, engages in human trafficking, and oppresses those under their rule, especially women.

    What I don't understand is your appeasement of the Taliban.
    I guess I am the only one who doesn't see the point of further provoking terrorist groups. Not to mention the act of executing 5 people. But that is just me.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-20-2015 08:40 AM
  16. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    So you don't think executing terrorists would make other terrorists agitated?

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    No, no more than they are already agitated. They are agitated if we do something or if we do nothing. They kill because of intolerance and hate and are not reasonable or logical.

    You can not apply logic and reason to the illogical and the unreasonable. Logic and reason is foreign to them.
    Scott7217 likes this.
    05-20-2015 08:42 AM
  17. A895's Avatar
    Bush and Cheney don't suck anymore than any other politicians.

    Party voting is what is wrong with this country. It doesn't matter what party someone is.

    I still don't understand how someone can disapprove of Bush, but not have a problem with Obama doing the same things.

    Bush polices Obama kept and in some cases, increased:

    Patriot Act

    Drone program

    Unnecessary Spending
    Abusing FISA court

    Continuing a war on terrorism

    Recess appointments

    Obama had two surges in Afghanistan

    Growing and growing the Federal government.

    Increasing our national debt. It is unreal how much Obama has increased our debt. He has more than doubled our entire debt of all presidents before him, combined.

    Increased bombing in Yemen and look at Yemen today. Remember, just a few months ago, Obama called it a success.

    Obama tried to go into Syria, just the same way Bush went into Iraq, even used WMD's as the reason, not long ago, but the people had a fit.

    More bombing in Somalia, called it a success also. If something doesn't happen soon with Yemen, Obama has been warned that Somalia will go the way of Yemen today.

    Funny thing about that, Obama used Yemen and Somalia as success stories of what would happen in Iraq with ISIS. That is a scary thought.

    Fast and Furious

    Bombing in Libya, yet Obama overthrew the regime in Libya, unlike Iraq, we don't have troops there to restore order.

    More deaths in war, more defense spending, more wars. Obama didn't even set up the time to pull out of Iraq, Bush did that before leaving office. Obama never admitted that, he said he ended everything in Iraq. Well he did until recently when ISIS got so bad, then he told the American public what most knew, he didn't negotiate the time to withdraw from Iraq, Bush did.

    The TSA.

    Wars and wars and wars and wars.

    The NDAA

    Let's not even get into whistle-blowers or leakers and using the espionage act against them. In 2013, that act had been used a total of 10 times, I think now it is 11 or 12. Three of those people were from all administrations before Bush and Obama, combined. Two of Obama's under that act, were continued from Bush era investigations. We don't know if they would have been charged under the Bush administration or not, so I'm only willing to give Bush 50% credit for those two. Obama had another one or two in the last year. This charging of journalists with espionage, under the "most transparent administration ever" is ironic, at best.

    "Most tallies, like the one by the investigative service ProPublica, begin with Daniel Ellsberg and the release of the Vietnam War era documents known as the Pentagon Papers. Including Ellsberg, the government has used the Espionage Act 10 times to prosecute government workers who shared classified information with journalists. If we push back to 1945, there is one more case. So of those 11, seven have taken place while Barack Obama has been president."

    http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...act-more-all-/

    Obama has increased the power of the Department of Homeland security and is turning it into a federal police force, not an anti-terrorism force to keep the Homeland safe.

    Bush was really bad to act as a King many times and usurp the power of other branches of government. Obama has taken it to a whole new level.

    As Senator, Obama said this:

    "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

    What threat to us was Libya? I know who Saddam was doing, he was trying to go outside of OPEC and buy and sell oil in other currency beside USD. The petrodollar today, is the "gold standard" of years ago. The petrodollar backs our USD and because of the OPEC agreement that all these countries signed, buying in something other than USD will completely crash our economy. That is an act of war to try and crash our economy.

    Again, what threat was Libya? A totally illegal war.

    Obama went around Congress and illegally released the Taliban 5. He had asked Congress two other times to release the Taliban 5 and both times, he got a "no" and both times, it was unanimous.

    Obama's czars were the exact Executive power centralization that the Democrats were worried about under Bush.

    And there is more and more and more. The difference is, I didn't like it when Bush did it anymore than I like it when Obama does it. Most of those complaining still about the things Bush did, don't seem to realize that Obama continued those things and increased many of them.

    I understand people that loved Bush not liking Obama. I don't understand those that didn't like Bush, liking Obama. That smells of "party voters" to me. Some people are ok with someone under one party doing something, but if someone under a different party does the same thing, they are furious.
    What you are saying is, if I don't like Bush I can't like Obama? What kind of logic is that? While some of the things you mentioned are true. He has done a lot more good than Bush ever did. I can't think of a moment in Obamas presidency where I was like "Damn Bush did do that better".

    Not to mention most of the stuff you mention is dealing with stuff that Bush DID do during his presidency and Obama either had to deal with the fallout/consequences or have to issue policy that deals with it.

    If you take the time, learn about Bush's democratization of the Middle East. He specifically set on a mission to "spread democracy" to Middle Eastern countries and topple regimes there. Not to mention the unprecedented power given to the NSA by Bush, and the Patriot Act which came from Bush.

    And while "transparency" has been question in the current administration you also have to take into account the number of requests for information had risen tremendously compared to Bush's time. And nor everything that we want to know can be handed out freely and that is the negative bit about it.

    And I even did an extensive report covering the privacy stuff, most if not all of it comes from Bush's democratization of the Middle East. TSA included. While I don't agree with everything Obama does, he is loads better than Bush. Not to mention he is much more of relatable president compared to Bush, he feels like a normal American representing America. He smoked weed when he was young, he plays basketball at the white house.

    Not to mention what he represents to so many, because he is black, he is a symbol for what a person of color can achieve. If it wasn't for Obama, I don't think we would have so many more minorities interested in politics, and that is a good thing. Both he and Michelle both recounted stories of prejudice and discrimination they have faced in the past and that makes them even more relatable to other black Americans.

    While relatibility is not what determines a president per se, it does account for much you are willing to listen to what that person has to say.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-20-2015 08:54 AM
  18. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    What you are saying is, if I don't like Bush I can't like Obama? What kind of logic is that? While some of the things you mentioned are true. He has done a lot more good than Bush ever did. I can't think of a moment in Obamas presidency where I was like "Damn Bush did do that better".

    Not to mention most of the stuff you mention is dealing with stuff that Bush DID do during his presidency and Obama either had to deal with the fallout/consequences or have to issue policy that deals with it.

    If you take the time, learn about Bush's democratization of the Middle East. He specifically set on a mission to "spread democracy" to Middle Eastern countries and topple regimes there. Not to mention the unprecedented power given to the NSA by Bush, and the Patriot Act which came from Bush.

    And while "transparency" has been question in the current administration you also have to take into account the number of requests for information had risen tremendously compared to Bush's time. And nor everything that we want to know can be handed out freely and that is the negative bit about it.

    And I even did an extensive report covering the privacy stuff, most if not all of it comes from Bush's democratization of the Middle East. TSA included. While I don't agree with everything Obama does, he is loads better than Bush. Not to mention he is much more of relatable president compared to Bush, he feels like a normal American representing America. He smoked weed when he was young, he plays basketball at the white house.

    Not to mention what he represents to so many, because he is black, he is a symbol for what a person of color can achieve. If it wasn't for Obama, I don't think we would have so many more minorities interested in politics, and that is a good thing. Both he and Michelle both recounted stories of prejudice and discrimination they have faced in the past and that makes them even more relatable to other black Americans.

    While relatibility is not what determines a president per se, it does account for much you are willing to listen to what that person has to say.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    Ok, when you said.. "if you take time to learn" That was the final nail in the coffin of us discussing. I stopped reading there.

    Have a nice day!
    05-20-2015 08:59 AM
  19. A895's Avatar
    No, no more than they are already agitated. They are agitated if we do something or if we do nothing. They kill because of intolerance and hate and are not reasonable or logical.

    You can not apply logic and reason to the illogical and the unreasonable. Logic and reason is foreign to them.
    It could further agitate them and then be even more reason to be more aggressive.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-20-2015 12:45 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    Ok, when you said.. "if you take time to learn" That was the final nail in the coffin of us discussing. I stopped reading there.

    Have a nice day!
    And that kids is how you run away from a discussion.

    Posted via Razr M on the Android Central App
    05-20-2015 12:46 PM
  21. Mooncatt's Avatar
    And that kids is how you run away from a discussion.
    "Educate yourself" type replies are pretty insulting to say the least. Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't mean they haven't studied up on the issue.

    And now your reply, which follows a trend I see mostly from the left regarding political discourse. Snark and sarcasm doesn't win debates or change anyone's opinions. It just makes you look like a fool if that's what you have to resort to. Heck, the whole idea of "pardoning" GWB that started this thread is evidence of that.
    05-20-2015 01:59 PM
  22. anon8126715's Avatar
    What are the positive qualities of the Taliban Five that would warrant a stay of execution?

    In case you don't remember, here are the names of the Taliban Five:

    Mohammad Fazl

    Khairullah Khairkhwa

    Norullah Noori

    Mohammed Nabi Omari

    Abdul Haq Wasiq
    Some people don't want to execute these types of people because they then are recognized as martyrs. Once they're recognized as martyrs then other people want to emulate their acts, regardless of how heinous the act.
    05-20-2015 05:53 PM
  23. anon8126715's Avatar
    OHHHHH..so if we don't antagonize terrorist groups, they will stop terrorizing then?

    You can't placate crazy, hate filled people.

    It isn't antagonizing them, it is called justice. You sure don't sit around and do nothing because you are worried you might antagonize the hate filled crazy people.

    Guess we and others should have used that logic when it came to Hitler and worried about antagonizing Hitler.
    That's correct, and besides, it's fun to pick on Christians and their hypocritical ideology.
    05-20-2015 05:54 PM
  24. anon8126715's Avatar
    They hate the people they hate, simply because they live and breathe, not because of anything they have done or don't do.
    I can't believe I'm agreeing with you twice. Maybe one day Christians will stop hating gays so much for what they do or don't do.
    05-20-2015 05:58 PM
  25. anon8126715's Avatar
    Bush and Cheney don't suck anymore than any other politicians.
    And we were on such a roll. One is more inept than the average politician, and one is just outright more evil than the average politician.

    What I find ironic about Cheney is that he's almost the perfect right wing candidate except for the fact that he has a lesbian daughter and for some reason can be empathetic towards her interests but when it comes to other minority groups, he's cold and indifferent.
    05-20-2015 06:01 PM
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