10-06-2015 07:52 AM
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  1. Fairclough's Avatar
    Hello Friends (and foe ),
    It's probably been a year since I've debated this here, quiet vigously but as of recent news it's probably the best time to discuss it again.

    Is there room for gun control? Would you support it? What measures should be taken?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    10-01-2015 11:39 PM
  2. bassplayrguy's Avatar
    Hello Friends (and foe ),
    It's probably been a year since I've debated this here, quiet vigously but as of recent news it's probably the best time to discuss it again.

    Is there room for gun control? Would you support it? What measures should be taken?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    totally against gun control. There are no verifiable instances where it works.
    10-02-2015 12:08 PM
  3. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Not sure about the specifics of this particular case (I haven't been taking in a lot of MSM news lately), but do we know if he had obtained the gun legally? I know a lot of times the guns are stolen or other laws were already broken leading up to mass shootings. I also maintain the idea that in the absence of guns, these nut cases would find other ways to commit atrocities.

    So I don't rush to judgement that more gun control is the answer. That idea has been defeated countless times where shooters broke other laws in getting one. That's not even counting the fact that killing innocent people is probably the worst crime one could commit. Would those people be any less dead had he made a bomb? What if he used a car to run them over? The gun is not the problem. It's the deranged person pulling the trigger that's the problem.
    10-02-2015 12:33 PM
  4. Fairclough's Avatar
    totally against gun control. There are no verifiable instances where it works.
    Would it change your mind if I said, Australia had the world's largest massacre, almost a massacre a year
    .. Then when gun control came in they haven't had one since... Almost twenty years since the last one.


    As for finding your hands on a gun, an automatic gun on the black market in Australia would cost you $30,000. Which young person would have the funds or connections?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    10-03-2015 06:25 PM
  5. bassplayrguy's Avatar
    Would it change your mind if I said, Australia had the world's largest massacre, almost a massacre a year
    .. Then when gun control came in they haven't had one since... Almost twenty years since the last one.


    As for finding your hands on a gun, an automatic gun on the black market in Australia would cost you $30,000. Which young person would have the funds or connections?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Absolutely not. It is not a gun problem. It is a people problem and a lack of accountability in America problem. This country is the best in the world if you are a criminal. I will not give up my rights to make others feel "safer".
    Miller6386 likes this.
    10-04-2015 01:13 PM
  6. fooferdoggie's Avatar
    totally against gun control. There are no verifiable instances where it works.
    Gun control has always been so short lived and randomly implimented there is no way to hack that statement up. The only way it would work is nationwide and for a long time. It can never work in the short term. But we do know full access to guns does not stop it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
    Fairclough likes this.
    10-04-2015 01:17 PM
  7. fooferdoggie's Avatar
    Absolutely not. It is not a gun problem. It is a people problem and a lack of accountability in America problem. This country is the best in the world if you are a criminal. I will not give up my rights to make others feel "safer".
    Remember the same polititions that don't want gun control also tend to not want to deal with the mentally ill and tend to defund those programs. When you are willing to let children die for a right then what does that say about America. The whole guns protect us argument has been proven false.
    Gun control has always been so short lived and randomly implimented there is no way to hack that statement up. The only way it would work is nationwide and for a long time. It can never work in the short term. But we do know full access to guns does not stop it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
    Fairclough likes this.
    10-04-2015 01:21 PM
  8. recDNA's Avatar
    I would like one coherent policy with the same rules nationwide overruling all state laws. As it is now I could be arrested for driving over the state line while legally carrying in my own state. It should be very difficult for the average citizen to obtain a license for firearms not used for hunting or target practice. Does anyone hunt with AK47? Why?

    Home protection firearm (and required gun safe) that cannot be taken out of house should be easier to get than concealed carry permit. The actual rules should be debated in Congress and perhaps voted on in national referendum.

    I do not believe every American has a right to purchase any military type weapon he desires. I would prefer less restrictive laws than exist in most of Europe.
    10-04-2015 04:33 PM
  9. Fairclough's Avatar
    How it is in my country is...
    - All automatic weapons banned
    - semi automatics are limited to 10 rounds and only approved for farmers.
    - You apply for a gun license based on need e.g. enthusiast.
    - Enthusiasts require their gun to be stored at the range for a year prior to being able to bring it home.
    - Can only be brought home when adequate safe is installed.

    Since implementation, we have not had a massacre for 19years, going from one every year. Related gun crimes have plummeted etc. To obtain a Ar15 on the black market would set you back almost $30,000. Which teen with mental issues would have thay capital?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    10-04-2015 11:22 PM
  10. Fairclough's Avatar
    Bit of background my family was agricultural, so we had a lot of rifles and shot guns. Since then we hadn't had a need for them and turned them in.

    I believe there is two reasons for having a gun, 1 your a farmer or 2 you like guns.

    I don't believe in the defence debate, as those who were so dam "pro defence" would be going to pad lock conventions rather then taking pictures with 'defence' (cough assault) rifles.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    10-04-2015 11:25 PM
  11. ab304945's Avatar
    With the massacres I don't think gun control is the answer. People is, people shouldn't ignore signs a mental problems. Or even depression.

    Bullying is another problem that can cause it.

    Getting rid if guns won't help. See he'll well it worked having no guns on military bases in the US. Gunman comes in, and our own military can't defend themselves.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    10-05-2015 12:01 AM
  12. bassplayrguy's Avatar
    The cities in America with the strongest gun control laws are the most dangerous Gun control does not work. Never has. The right to bear arms has helped prevent war with a foreign country on our soil. It also allows us to stand up to the government if need be. Our rights should not be infringed upon so others can "feel" comfy. These massacres have nothing to do with guns. There are massacres with knives as well. Do you propose we outlaw knives to. How about automobiles? There are more ppl killed by cars than guns. How about tobacco or alcohol? They kill thousands yearly. I will be keeping my guns and carrying one daily. Maybe you can talk your enemy into giving up, or talk that burglar into not killing you, or talk that animal into letting you eat it. I wish you the best of luck with that but I bet when an emergency arrises you call a man with a gun.
    10-05-2015 06:39 AM
  13. Crashdamage's Avatar
    For many years I've said that the biggest mistake in the Constitution is the 2nd Amendment. Forget modifying it. It should be completely repealed. Why should anyone have the right to own a lethal weapon? Not a carving knife, a golf club, a baseball bat - almost anything can be used as a lethal weapon. No, I mean guns, which are designed to do one thing and one thing only - kill.

    To those who say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." I say, that's true, but people with guns kill a lot MORE people! Yet some people think the answer to guns is - more guns! That's like saying the answer to drunk drivers is more drunk drivers.

    They say we need open carry. But if everyone has a gun strapped around their waist like Wild West days, how do you tell the criminals and crazies carrying a gun for Bad Things from the wannabe citizen heroes looking for the chance to be Wyatt Earp?

    Screw the 2nd Amendment! I DO wanna come and take your guns away! I wanna take everyone's guns away! Every last one! If nobody had a gun, nobody would need a gun.
    Rob_B, Fairclough and anon8380037 like this.
    10-05-2015 07:57 AM
  14. anon8380037's Avatar
    The cities in America with the strongest gun control laws are the most dangerous Gun control does not work. Never has. The right to bear arms has helped prevent war with a foreign country on our soil. It also allows us to stand up to the government if need be. Our rights should not be infringed upon so others can "feel" comfy. These massacres have nothing to do with guns. There are massacres with knives as well. Do you propose we outlaw knives to. How about automobiles? There are more ppl killed by cars than guns. How about tobacco or alcohol? They kill thousands yearly. I will be keeping my guns and carrying one daily. Maybe you can talk your enemy into giving up, or talk that burglar into not killing you, or talk that animal into letting you eat it. I wish you the best of luck with that but I bet when an emergency arrises you call a man with a gun.
    Your rights come second.

    A lone 'knife man' walking in to a school is a hundred times more manageable, can do far less damage, instills vastly less fear and panic, and can be overcome by a group. (rather than wait 3 hours for authorities to set up a command post, e. g. Breivic in Norway.)

    I 'do' understand the fear Americans, particularly in rural areas, have of giving up their long held guns, when their neighbours and criminals hold on to theirs.
    It would be a difficult process in such a large country with diverse States and communities.

    But there is some evil and enormous monetary self interest in the gun lobby, and a selfish wild west mentality in people claiming it's their constitutional right. I have better regard for people wishing they could all have a program for eliminating gun access, to prevent these hours long terror attacks and slaughter of school students.

    This latest guy was born in the UK, only 26, joined the army for a short time as I understand, and had 17 firearms.

    I could not possibly acquire a gun in London. (no, I couldn't! unless I fell over one). There have of course been past massacres here. Dunblane, Hungerford.

    Response, reaction and rapid containment in school attacks could surely be improved also, with better planning and training. One person allowed to roam a school for hours sounds crazy.
    Crashdamage likes this.
    10-05-2015 09:17 AM
  15. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Your rights come second.
    No. They don't. In the U.S., rights come first. One does not give up their rights simply because it offends someone else. That's why they are called rights.

    ...and a selfish wild west mentality in people claiming it's their constitutional right.
    Wrong again. People believe it's a constitutional right because it's in the constitution. It's not just some whimsical thought blowing in the wind. Or would you consider the right to freedom of speech to simply be a selfish anti-establishment belief?
    10-05-2015 09:54 AM
  16. bassplayrguy's Avatar
    Your rights come second.

    A lone 'knife man' walking in to a school is a hundred times more manageable, can do far less damage, instills vastly less fear and panic, and can be overcome by a group. (rather than wait 3 hours for authorities to set up a command post, e. g. Breivic in Norway.)

    I 'do' understand the fear Americans, particularly in rural areas, have of giving up their long held guns, when their neighbours and criminals hold on to theirs.
    It would be a difficult process in such a large country with diverse States and communities.

    But there is some evil and enormous monetary self interest in the gun lobby, and a selfish wild west mentality in people claiming it's their constitutional right. I have better regard for people wishing they could all have a program for eliminating gun access, to prevent these hours long terror attacks and slaughter of school students.

    This latest guy was born in the UK, only 26, joined the army for a short time as I understand, and had 17 firearms.

    I could not possibly acquire a gun in London. (no, I couldn't! unless I fell over one). There have of course been past massacres here. Dunblane, Hungerford.

    Response, reaction and rapid containment in school attacks could surely be improved also, with better planning and training. One person allowed to roam a school for hours sounds crazy.
    In the United States, my rights come first. You feeling safe or comfy is honestly of no consequence. It is called the Bill of Rights and is part of the reason our forefathers left England. Your rules no longer apply to us. In China this weekend 33 people were killed and 130 more seriously injured by a couple of gentlemen with knives. So explain to me how knives do less damage? If some of those people were armed with guns, far less damage could have occurred.
    10-05-2015 10:23 AM
  17. Almeuit's Avatar
    Mod Note - Just a reminder to keep it civil. Thanks.
    Fairclough likes this.
    10-05-2015 11:48 AM
  18. Miller6386's Avatar
    Guns/hunting account for 65% of my annual food in take. There is NO justifiable way to take guns from law abiding citizens. No matter what you do or how you do it the criminals will just keep their weapons. So instead of having a bunch of people able to defend themselves we will just have a bunch of criminals running amuck even worst than now.

    The best way to do it is make the punishment FAR FAR worst than the crime. If you commit a crime with a firearm 10 years in prison. If you do it a 2nd time death penalty. No if ands or buts. Our big problem is the punishment means nothing to these crimnlinals. Rob someone at gunpoint and they get a couple of months in jail with their buddies then they are back out again. Let's not punish the ones who aren't breaking the law with them let's destroy the ones who are breaking the law.

    Note 4tified
    bassplayrguy likes this.
    10-05-2015 12:00 PM
  19. bassplayrguy's Avatar
    Guns/hunting account for 65% of my annual food in take. There is NO justifiable way to take guns from law abiding citizens. No matter what you do or how you do it the criminals will just keep their weapons. So instead of having a bunch of people able to defend themselves we will just have a bunch of criminals running amuck even worst than now.

    The best way to do it is make the punishment FAR FAR worst than the crime. If you commit a crime with a firearm 10 years in prison. If you do it a 2nd time death penalty. No if ands or buts. Our big problem is the punishment means nothing to these crimnlinals. Rob someone at gunpoint and they get a couple of months in jail with their buddies then they are back out again. Let's not punish the ones who aren't breaking the law with them let's destroy the ones who are breaking the law.

    Note 4tified
    THIS!! This is what I have been saying for years. Our judicial system is a joke and a lot of this crime is a byproduct of that. No accountability.
    Miller6386 likes this.
    10-05-2015 12:28 PM
  20. recDNA's Avatar
    With the massacres I don't think gun control is the answer. People is, people shouldn't ignore signs a mental problems. Or even depression.

    Bullying is another problem that can cause it.

    Getting rid if guns won't help. See he'll well it worked having no guns on military bases in the US. Gunman comes in, and our own military can't defend themselves.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Nobody said to take guns from military! Take guns from people who have no real need for them and it will be pretty tough for bullied kid to shoot up a school.

    Constitution says guns for militia.

    Killings in cities are due to guns not taken away
    Fairclough likes this.
    10-05-2015 04:35 PM
  21. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Nobody said to take guns from military! Take guns from people who have no real need for them and it will be pretty tough for bullied kid to shoot up a school.

    Constitution says guns for militia.

    Killings in cities are due to guns not taken away
    And the Supreme Court already ruled the 2nd amendment is an individual right, not a group. See DC vs Heller.

    Guns have already been removed from military bases, Clinton did that.
    10-05-2015 04:43 PM
  22. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Constitution says guns for militia.
    Should the need arise for citizens to take up arms for a national emergency and form militias again, we would need access to guns. You don't want a gun? Fine. But that doesn't give you the right to trample on the rights of others.

    Killings in cities are due to guns not taken away
    No, killing of innocents are due to the deranged minds of the killers. The tool in which they choose to use makes little difference. The sooner the gun control crowd gets it through their head, the sooner we can deal with the actual problems.
    Fairclough and Kelly Kearns like this.
    10-05-2015 04:48 PM
  23. Fairclough's Avatar
    I think many have misunderstood gun control and perceive it as taking away guns from those who have a need.

    Over here anyone with a genuine need e.g. farmer has access to their own guns, albeit it has to be in a gun safe etc when not in use. Their semi automatics cartridges as limited to 11 bullets etc.

    Anyone without a need doesn't get a gun, you can apply for one as an enthusiast but their is a waiting period before you can have it taken from the range home.

    An.Ammenedment, e.g. the second, is an Ammenedment. By its own title it can be changed. If it was so perfect the constitution why not have the original without Ammenedments, guns, enforced slavery laws etc?


    Almeuit - note taken, I'll try and curve it each time from a fellow moderator on another mobile nations site.


    Posted via the Android Central App
    Almeuit likes this.
    10-05-2015 07:50 PM
  24. recDNA's Avatar
    If current NYC or even less restrictive MA gun laws became universal federal gun law followed by rigorous effort to get currently and newly illegal guns off the street and out of homes the problem would gradually improve.
    10-05-2015 08:25 PM
  25. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Every place is different, with its own culture and beliefs. Not only that, but geography can play a role too. A very restrictive gun policy may accomplish its goals in a place like Australia simply because it's comparatively much harder to smuggle things in and out. The U.S. boarder is pretty porous, which causes us lots of smuggling problems, especially with drugs. If we were to institute similar gun restrictions, it's possible a black market for them could still pop up and have them smuggled into the country with relative ease. If the demand is high enough, it will happen.
    10-05-2015 08:31 PM
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