1. flyingkytez's Avatar
    The trade tarrifs as you've all heard will increase prices on Chinese goods. Most smartphones are made in China and we're accustomed to affordable prices on smartphones. Not trying to get political here, but interested in your thoughts: if smartphones become expensive, are you still going to pay for the latest and greatest? Let's say the average flagship will cost $1500+, would you still buy it? Apple/Google heavily depends on cheap Chinese labor and goods and you know they're not going to cut their own profits, and I know America isn't going to make smartphone manufacturing plants in America (even if it did, it would be even more expensive). We all take for granted all the cheap tech we can afford, so what's going to happen in the future you think with this price increase?

    Edit: Update:

    First wave of tarrifs: steel and aluminum

    Second wave: consumer goods and electronics

    "The first tariffs, targeting a handful of consumer goods, debuted earlier this year; they were followed by taxes on raw steel and aluminum. ***Now a new wave focusing specifically on hundreds of Chinese industrial goods is set to go into effect in July. And Trump has threatened to target still more Chinese goods — possibly including many popular consumer items like televisions and cellphones."

    "Many other goods on the July 6 list — including semiconductors, the computer chips that power PCs and smartphones — are important components in finished goods consumers love, and could eventually drive up prices on these too."


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphje.../#6f76c4aa7289

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...two/447801002/

    http://time.com/money/5316029/trump-...rodcut-prices/

    https://www.consumerreports.org/tele...er-tv-prices-/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.5cfd59d356bb
    07-03-2018 11:38 AM
  2. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Misinformation: false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive.

    The article does not mention smartphones. That might be because....

    Most smartphones, sold in the US, are NOT made in China. There is only one Chinese OEM in the top 5 OEM's in the US and those other 4 make up 86.3% of smartphones in the US, meaning that less than 13.7% of smartphones in the US are coming from China. If one were inclined to counter with "over half of iPhones are assembled in China" - well, a simple fact check would show that iPhones are not being hit with the tariff. Additionally, the list of things that the tariffs apply to are almost entirely supply chain components, big ticket items like aircraft and commodities.

    But all of that doesn't matter at all, because the USTR has said that cellphones are excluded from the tariffs directly, as can be inferred from their official statement here: "The list does not include goods commonly purchased by American consumers such as cellular telephones or televisions".
    SpookDroid and Laura Knotek like this.
    07-03-2018 12:16 PM
  3. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Misinformation: false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive.

    The article does not mention smartphones. That might be because....

    Most smartphones, sold in the US, are NOT made in China. There is only one Chinese OEM in the top 5 OEM's in the US and those other 4 make up 86.3% of smartphones in the US, meaning that less than 13.7% of smartphones in the US are coming from China. If one were inclined to counter with "over half of iPhones are assembled in China" - well, a simple fact check would show that iPhones are not being hit with the tariff. Additionally, the list of things that the tariffs apply to are almost entirely supply chain components, big ticket items like aircraft and commodities.

    But all of that doesn't matter at all, because the USTR has said that cellphones are excluded from the tariffs directly, as can be inferred from their official statement here: "The list does not include goods commonly purchased by American consumers such as cellular telephones or televisions".
    It includes electronics.. aluminum STEEL which most smartphones are made of... small business are already affected.. they are paying 25% more on electronic components from China... It's JUST getting started, we don't know exactly what's going to happen but prices will change. All batteries are basically made in China, and many other parts too. Don't try to sugar coat it...

    Most US phones are made in China (Apple being the largest). Basically all lithium ion batteries are made in China. 3rd party accessories are basically ALL Chinese made (cases, screen protectors). This trade war is just the beginning... FYI there are 0 smartphone manufacturing plants in the US, they are all in China.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphje.../#6f76c4aa7289

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...two/447801002/

    http://time.com/money/5316029/trump-...rodcut-prices/

    https://www.consumerreports.org/tele...er-tv-prices-/
    07-03-2018 02:12 PM
  4. flyingkytez's Avatar
    This is not false or fake information. The complete list was not fully disclosed, but more info is now being released, to save the pain of Americans seeing the truth.. it's OK to talk about it, don't dismiss it like it doesn't matter..

    "The first tariffs, targeting a handful of consumer goods, debuted earlier this year; they were followed by taxes on raw steel and aluminum. Now a new wave focusing specifically on hundreds of Chinese industrial goods is set to go into effect in July. And Trump has threatened to target still more Chinese goods — possibly including many popular consumer items like televisions and cellphones."

    "Many other goods on the July 6 list — including semiconductors, the computer chips that power PCs and smartphones — are important components in finished goods consumers love, and could eventually drive up prices on these too."
    07-03-2018 02:31 PM
  5. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Also you didn't really answer the question, the question was WOULD you buy a phone that costs $1500+? What is the max you're willing to pay?
    07-03-2018 02:39 PM
  6. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    It includes electronics.. aluminum STEEL which most smartphones are made of... small business are already affected.. they are paying 25% more on electronic components from China... It's JUST getting started, we don't know exactly what's going to happen but prices will change. All batteries are basically made in China, and many other parts too. Don't try to sugar coat it...

    Most US phones are made in China (Apple being the largest). Basically all lithium ion batteries are made in China. 3rd party accessories are basically ALL Chinese made (cases, screen protectors). This trade war is just the beginning... FYI there are 0 smartphone manufacturing plants in the US, they are all in China.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphje.../#6f76c4aa7289

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...two/447801002/

    Trump's Trade War, Tariffs Making These Goods More Expensive | Money

    https://www.consumerreports.org/tele...er-tv-prices-/
    Ok I'll try to take this from the top.

    The aluminium and steel used in smartphones are generally sourced from the US, Europe, other parts of Asia and not China. ASSEMBLY is done in China for a couple OEM's, but not for most.

    Most phones are not made in China, for US consumers, I already covered the stats on that. Why state untrue things while quoting evidence about it being untrue?

    All batteries are not basically made in China, as well as other parts. These parts are sourced from all over the world. Samsung as an example, makes all of their batteries in Korea, Vietnam and China, with most of them being in Korea. For the purposes of these tariffs, it may be helpful to understand that Taiwan is not China for this purpose. Regardless, those things that are made in China, are not being imported as parts, they're being imported as PHONES, which are not hit by the tariff.

    Furthermore, the USTR - which is the Office of the United States Trade Representative, aka the United States Executive Office of the President of the US that actually implements this policy, including the particulars, SPECIFICALLY stated, as already indicated in the text that you quoted, that "the list does NOT include goods commonly purchased by American consumers such as cellular telephones or televisions" (emphasis mine).

    Are you not reading the things you reply to or are you intentionally misrepresenting the facts?

    I'm going to go ahead and automatically disqualify your articles from April and March as irrelevant due to time. Things have changed enough in the ensuing months that these are irrelevant.

    I'm also going to automatically DQ Forbes because it is not a tech authority, but furthermore it does NOT say what you're saying it says. It describes three scenarios in which have not happened, but if they do happen COULD raise prices in a tertiary sense. Not primary cause, not secondary cost, tertiary. None of your sources back up your statements because your statements are untrue. Did you read your sources prior to including them?

    Your final source would then be time.com/money - which is a week outdated, meaning it doesn't include this week's reality, just speculation - and it ALSO states specifically that phones and televisions are not included.
    07-03-2018 02:41 PM
  7. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    "Many other goods on the July 6 list — including semiconductors, the computer chips that power PCs and smartphones — are important components in finished goods consumers love, and could eventually drive up prices on these too."
    The important thing about this, which I already addressed in my last post, is that those components are NOT subject to tariff if they are inside a finished product unless that finished product is subject to tariff as itself.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-03-2018 02:43 PM
  8. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    it's OK to talk about it, don't dismiss it like it doesn't matter..
    It is ok and important to talk about the tariffs, because they are incredibly stupid and reckless and can in no way help anyone in the US or anywhere else. However, on the subject of smartphones - the US is selling a tiny number of Chinese smartphones and smartphones are not being hit with the tariff. Those two points are both immensely important to recognize before crying wolf about impending price hikes over things that are absolutely not going on right now.

    And Trump has threatened to target still more Chinese goods — possibly including many popular consumer items like televisions and cellphones.
    What the POTUS threatens and what is actually being implemented right now are not the same thing. He says a lot of things that aren't true, however I believe he could make good on that threat and it would STILL not impact things in the way that your OP indicated. Apple would simply shift their US imports to Taiwan's Foxconn and build their Chinese iPhones, the other of their top 2 markets, in China. It's an easy workaround with very little or no pain to any companies and thus very little or no pain being passed on to consumers here.
    07-03-2018 02:48 PM
  9. Mike Dee's Avatar
    Also you didn't really answer the question, the question was WOULD you buy a phone that costs $1500+? What is the max you're willing to pay?
    You're in a politics subforum.... Not sure how many will come in here to provide you the answer you're looking for. What will you do with the information anyway? Seems like it should be a poll.

    I also don't know how a 25 percent increase becomes 1500 for an average flagship phone. Seems too high based on adding 25 percent to the current average flagship price.....is there a hidden cost?

    As for myself I don't have a ceiling on what I would pay.
    07-03-2018 02:54 PM
  10. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Begging the question logical fallacy: Begging the question, sometimes known by its Latin name petitio principii (meaning assuming the initial point), is a logical fallacy in which the writer or speaker assumes the statement under examination to be true. In other words, begging the question involves using a premise to support itself.
    07-03-2018 02:56 PM

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