12-09-2013 04:07 AM
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  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Just to clarify - the intellectual property I own is patented, not copyright, so fair use doesn't enter into the picture with the kinds of intellectual property I own.

    In general, I think the fair use copyright doctrine should be expanded, but the original napster was about the in toto copying of music without any remuneration at all going to the artists. Now if an artist was OK with that because it led to fame and fame led to the ability to sell out concerts and selling out concerts led to money in their pocket, well good for them. But that doesn't mean that other artists should not be able to profit from the distribution of their own work.

    The real problem with napster was the large scale and ease of the theft and how until the lawsuits started, to the average Joe, it seemed like there was nothing wrong with what they were doing. It was on the internet, and if it was on the internet, it had to be OK, right?
    So, is it fair to say that you think that the lawsuits educated people about piracy? And if so, do you think that maybe there was a better way to do that besides going after people trying to get thousands of dollars from them per song they downloaded? Yes, they tried to focus on the largest and most egregious offenders, but the fact is they made the point that they could go after anyone that downloaded any song without permission for the exact same thing. I call that a scare tactic, not education. Seems like there would be a more common sense way to deal with these things.

    Fair use should be simple. If I own a copy of a movie or song I should be able to play it on any device I own, without needing to repurchase the rights to that work. I'm anti-DRM and anti-piracy. Those two things can coexist.
    TomsAndroid and badbrad17 like this.
    01-03-2013 12:02 AM
  2. badbrad17's Avatar
    The original Napster was about the organized, large scale, stealing of intellectual property made easy by electronic means. It really wasn't controversial at all. It was theft, pure and simple. The fact that some bands consented to the free distribution of their music doesn't mean that those bands who didn't weren't the victims of theft.
    I agree but there are many things that bring about change. Following laws that don't protect the interests of the people it was created for is wrong. If the artists were actually paid for their work and not actually limited by the control of a distribution monopoly then you may get more sympathy, but because this is not the case many honest people are stepping outside of the boundaries in order to bring about change. You have to admit the the system is flawed and needs to be overhauled.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    01-03-2013 12:03 AM
  3. badbrad17's Avatar
    This thread has officially gone down the drain. ABORT ABORT. Snore fest. And it was going so well for so long. Such a shame.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    TheOtherBill likes this.
    01-03-2013 12:12 AM
  4. WannaBeYou's Avatar
    So, is it fair to say that you think that the lawsuits educated people about piracy? And if so, do you think that maybe there was a better way to do that besides going after people trying to get thousands of dollars from them per song they downloaded?
    yes, the lawsuits educated people but if there were no penalties for violating the law, then no one would care. In the morning when I am not so tired I will try to find what this concept is called, but the basic premise is that laws in which it is hard to detect violators, you have to make examples out of the few cases you catch in order to deter the masses. Universities employ this with their honor codes - it is hard to detect a lot of the cheating that goes on, so when they do catch someone cheating they punish them hard so that the vast majority of students will fear the repercussions of cheating and not do it.

    Yes, they tried to focus on the largest and most egregious offenders, but the fact is they made the point that they could go after anyone that downloaded any song without permission for the exact same thing. I call that a scare tactic, not education. Seems like there would be a more common sense way to deal with these things.
    It definitely was a scare tactic, but that was the whole point. It is really hard to catch this kind of theft, so when you do, you have to punish it hard so that people will think, hey, I can probably get away with it, but if I am one of the unlucky ones who doesn't, it is going to be so painful that I think I would rather pay for my music than risk it.

    Fair use should be simple. If I own a copy of a movie or song I should be able to play it on any device I own, without needing to repurchase the rights to that work. I'm anti-DRM and anti-piracy. Those two things can coexist.
    I actually agree with that, but the problem is how do you make sure that the device belongs to the person who owns the copy of the movie or the song and isn't a device owned by someone else they want to share the copy with?
    01-03-2013 12:13 AM
  5. WannaBeYou's Avatar
    This thread has officially gone down the drain. ABORT ABORT. Snore fest. And it was going so well for so long. Such a shame.
    I didn't change the topic. I was happy talking about my $200 pink iPod gift that sucked a$$.
    01-03-2013 12:16 AM
  6. xlDeMoNiClx's Avatar
    This thread has officially gone down the drain. ABORT ABORT. Snore fest. And it was going so well for so long. Such a shame.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    Agreed. Someone always has to go too far and ruin it for everyone else.

    Sent from my Nexus 10 using Android Central Forums
    01-03-2013 12:18 AM
  7. WannaBeYou's Avatar
    Agreed. Someone always has to go too far and ruin it for everyone else.
    That would be you.
    01-03-2013 12:21 AM
  8. Paul627g's Avatar
    That would be you.
    Do we really need to start this all over again? I believe Kevin (Super Mod) did an excellent job of bringing things back under control before it got ugly. Lets not go down this road again.

    Discuss, debate, but lets not get personal and point fingers.

    Thanks.

    Paul
    Forums Moderator.
    01-03-2013 12:26 AM
  9. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    And we're back to the bickering? I would think that ME being in here and saying to stop that would've worked. Maybe setting an example would settle it? My scare tactic is temporary bans. I HATE doing those, and as you all can tell, would rather not hand out formal infractions (I have not done so in this thread yet) of any kind.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    01-03-2013 12:27 AM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    yes, the lawsuits educated people but if there were no penalties for violating the law, then no one would care. In the morning when I am not so tired I will try to find what this concept is called, but the basic premise is that laws in which it is hard to detect violators, you have to make examples out of the few cases you catch in order to deter the masses. Universities employ this with their honor codes - it is hard to detect a lot of the cheating that goes on, so when they do catch someone cheating they punish them hard so that the vast majority of students will fear the repercussions of cheating and not do it.

    It definitely was a scare tactic, but that was the whole point. It is really hard to catch this kind of theft, so when you do, you have to punish it hard so that people will think, hey, I can probably get away with it, but if I am one of the unlucky ones who doesn't, it is going to be so painful that I think I would rather pay for my music than risk it.

    I actually agree with that, but the problem is how do you make sure that the device belongs to the person who owns the copy of the movie or the song and isn't a device owned by someone else they want to share the copy with?
    I remember reading about a case involving pornography where they tried to go after thousands all at once, but was denied (I think) because they had to file individually to get the names attached to the IP addresses. I wonder if it would've been thrown out if it was big music or big movie doing the filing. It's not THAT hard to catch (a law was recently passed that makes it much easier for ISP's to detect this, right?), and I think I'll even get pop up warnings from Comcast if I start pirating stuff. That was a solution brought about by lobbying groups FOR the media companies so they didn't look like the bad guys that always sue the pants off of people.

    Please, feel free to correct me on any facts I got wrong. It's really been a long time since I read those things.
    01-03-2013 12:30 AM
  11. WannaBeYou's Avatar
    Do we really need to start this all over again? I believe Kevin (Super Mod) did an excellent job of bringing things back under control before it got ugly. Lets not go down this road again.

    Discuss, debate, but lets not get personal and point fingers.

    Thanks.

    Paul
    Forums Moderator.
    OK, when I see you point out my response as "personal" when the response that I was responding to was just as personal, although passively aggressively personal, but you didn't point that out, it just makes me bang my head against my keyboard. The poster I was responding to was CLEARLY referring to me. He just decided to be more obtuse about it. If not being passive aggressive and not being obtuse is being ugly, well then, I am ugly.

    And you've got to be kidding me about the ugly part. Really? Geez, you boyz are so sensitive.
    01-03-2013 12:36 AM
  12. badbrad17's Avatar
    I didn't change the topic. I was happy talking about my $200 pink iPod gift that sucked a$$.
    True. I liked you better then. :thumbup:

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    01-03-2013 12:38 AM
  13. badbrad17's Avatar
    OK, when I see you point out my response as "personal" when the response that I was responding to was just as personal, although passively aggressively personal, but you didn't point that out, it just makes me bang my head against my keyboard. The poster I was responding to was CLEARLY referring to me. He just decided to be more obtuse about it. If not being passive aggressive and not being obtuse is being ugly, well then, I am ugly.

    And you've got to be kidding me about the ugly part. Really? Geez, you boyz are so sensitive.
    We are very sensitive.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    TomsAndroid likes this.
    01-03-2013 12:40 AM
  14. WannaBeYou's Avatar
    I remember reading about a case involving pornography where they tried to go after thousands all at once, but was denied (I think) because they had to file individually to get the names attached to the IP addresses. I wonder if it would've been thrown out if it was big music or big movie doing the filing. It's not THAT hard to catch (a law was recently passed that makes it much easier for ISP's to detect this, right?), and I think I'll even get pop up warnings from Comcast if I start pirating stuff. That was a solution brought about by lobbying groups FOR the media companies so they didn't look like the bad guys that always sue the pants off of people.

    Please, feel free to correct me on any facts I got wrong. It's really been a long time since I read those things.
    Were they stealing copyrighted pornography? Or was this an obscenity case?

    As for recent developments in copyright infringement detection, I would have to look into it. I was talking about the original napster cases, which are what the others were talking about too.

    Look, there is no debate at all that the original napster was nothing more than a conduit for copyright theft. It was. Now some people don't respect copyrights and think intellectual property is somehow different from tangible property. OK, then lobby your congressperson to repeal the copyright act, but until that happens, you are stealing. You can rationalize it any way you want to, but it is no different from going into Walmart and sticking a CD in your coat pocket.
    YourMobileGuru likes this.
    01-03-2013 12:49 AM
  15. Ry's Avatar
    Yada yada yada. Bottom line the shutdown of Napster didn't' stop those who wanted free music. I pay for mines though

    Sent from my Sprint Galaxy Nexus rockin 4.2.1 using Tapatalk 2
    And again, there's a reason why I used the word legitimized.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    badbrad17 likes this.
    01-03-2013 12:52 AM
  16. reeneebob's Avatar
    And god forbid you copy a vhs to watch later with the fam. Dont even think about buying extra hifi sony cassetts to play in the car from your best friends new rap tape. Cause we have all never done that fo sho.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    I haven't.



    All I want for Christmas, New Years and my birthday is hockey back, or Bettmans head on a platter. Whichever's easier...
    01-03-2013 12:53 AM
  17. WannaBeYou's Avatar
    True. I liked you better then. :thumbup:
    well I hate my $200 pink iPod and I tell my relatives how it was the WORST christmas present they ever got me. This year they got me a $200 Amazon gift card. I am happy.
    01-03-2013 12:53 AM
  18. Ry's Avatar
    As for the topic, this supposed love affair only exists if you believe it to still exist. In my opinion, it's been over for awhile now.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    01-03-2013 12:54 AM
  19. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Were they stealing copyrighted pornography?
    Yes
    01-03-2013 12:54 AM
  20. reeneebob's Avatar
    The world would be a better place if fanboys would stop pissing in each others cornflakes. I have an iPhone, a SGS3, an iPod Touch, a shuffle and a Creative Zen Vision M. There are things all do well and things they don't. All of them.

    Period.

    And I guess I'm so kind of software Rain Man because I've always found iTunes extremely intuitive and easy to use, so much so I used it before I owned an Apple product.

    Fanboys suck. On ALL sides.

    All I want for Christmas, New Years and my birthday is hockey back, or Bettmans head on a platter. Whichever's easier...
    Ry likes this.
    01-03-2013 12:56 AM
  21. WannaBeYou's Avatar
    The way you were posting was an assumption on his level of knowledge clearly meant to be an insult.
    My "assumption" on his level of knowledge was based on and only on what he posted. If he was insulted by that, he needs to think before he posts.
    01-03-2013 01:05 AM
  22. badbrad17's Avatar
    well I hate my $200 pink iPod and I tell my relatives how it was the WORST christmas present they ever got me. This year they got me a $200 Amazon gift card. I am happy.
    Ha ha. Nice call.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    01-03-2013 01:07 AM
  23. WannaBeYou's Avatar
    Yes
    Ok, I will have to look that one up. Haven't kept up with what the porno IP attorneys are doing these days, lol! I actually know a few, and crazy as this may seem, some of them are very religious. Guess they can compartmentalize better than I can!
    dwaynewilliams#WN likes this.
    01-03-2013 01:07 AM
  24. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    My "assumption" on his level of knowledge was based on and only on what he posted. If he was insulted by that, he needs to think before he posts.
    Nah. If he was insulted then it could be interpreted as a personal attack. In which case the Mod team would have to act. So if it's possible that something you say might insult someone, or could be construed as a personal attack, then maybe you should think before you hit that button that posts your comment.

    It was YOUR report that brought me into this in the first place. I would hate for it to backfire and cause you to get an infraction.

    Everyone needs to stop going back to the stuff that was said pages ago. People have moved on. Let them. Stop rehashing the same thing over and over again.
    01-03-2013 01:10 AM
  25. badbrad17's Avatar
    The world would be a better place if fanboys would stop pissing in each others cornflakes. I have an iPhone, a SGS3, an iPod Touch, a shuffle and a Creative Zen Vision M. There are things all do well and things they don't. All of them.

    Period.

    And I guess I'm so kind of software Rain Man because I've always found iTunes extremely intuitive and easy to use, so much so I used it before I owned an Apple product.

    Fanboys suck. On ALL sides.

    All I want for Christmas, New Years and my birthday is hockey back, or Bettmans head on a platter. Whichever's easier...
    I think your comments were the point of this thread. It has since taken on an Octopus quality and is heading in all kinds of directions. But I do think that this type of debate/discussion does push innovation and raises the bar of expectations in technology. If we all just quietly sit in the corner and say nothing about why we prefer something then these companies don't have any reason to try to pull us towards their product over their competitors.

    It's like having the NHL but not having anyone cheer for a specific team.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    sr2012 likes this.
    01-03-2013 01:15 AM
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