08-02-2013 09:29 PM
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  1. Chris Flowers's Avatar
    http://feedly.com/k/19k59JE

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    alamarco likes this.
    07-25-2013 09:07 AM
  2. Golfdriver97's Avatar

    Not bad. Even with the disclaimer that it's not quite ready for being a daily driver, but roughly 24 hours and they released it. Sony, I am impressed.
    alamarco and Chris Flowers like this.
    07-25-2013 09:20 AM
  3. Chris Flowers's Avatar
    Pity the same cannot be said for Samsung.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    07-25-2013 11:09 AM
  4. anon(394005)'s Avatar
    Pity the same cannot be said for Samsung.
    May be you should get a Sony then. In all seriousness, if updates are that important to you, may be a Nexus device is what you need.

    Otherwise, you're always going to have this "Update anxiety" as discussed in this AC article: Why you'll never have the latest version of Android | Android Central

    An excerpt (bolded part by me ):

    As updates become more common, and consumers become more tech-savvy, theres an increasing awareness that devices can be updated, and an expectation that they should be updated. With that comes a sort of update anxiety. If youve dropped by any smartphone message board, such as our own forums or XDAs, youll know what we mean by this. Threads abound asking when ICS, or Jelly Bean, will be available for certain devices. In the event of delayed or even canceled updates, Internet denizens swear theyll never buy another phone from that manufacturer or carrier again. Its an entirely negative ownership experience.

    While this isnt representative of the entire user base -- not by far -- its an example of how many power users experience Android smartphones. Theyre always behind the curve, always waiting on an update, never fully enjoying the product that theyve bought as theyve bought it. Part of that is the fault of the tech press -- were always focused on whats new, and that means talking about software that hasnt yet reached most folks.
    MaxBuck likes this.
    07-25-2013 12:20 PM
  5. Chris Flowers's Avatar
    May be you should get a Sony then. In all seriousness, if updates are that important to you, may be a Nexus device is what you need.

    Otherwise, you're always going to have this "Update anxiety" as discussed in this AC article: Why you'll never have the latest version of Android | Android Central

    An excerpt (bolded part by me ):
    Irritatingly, I predicted a 'buy a Sony then' response from at least one participant who wouldn't be able to resist.

    If I wanted a Sony, I wouldn't be posting in this forum. It's not that I'm not enjoying my Samsung Galaxy Note II, far from it in fact. Just because I'd like to see Samsung spend a bit more time, resource and money on software updates, looking after their existing customers as well as looking to gain new ones with new devices, does not mean I don't want or regret having a Samsung.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    alamarco likes this.
    07-25-2013 03:05 PM
  6. anon(394005)'s Avatar
    Sorry about that. You're right I couldn't resist. I usually don't even respond to these types of threads, but considering so many are popping up lately thought I'd chime in with that AC article (highly recommend reading the whole thing, not just my excerpt. ) and update anxiety thing both of which have a lot of truth to them.
    07-25-2013 04:06 PM
  7. Chris Flowers's Avatar
    Sorry about that. You're right I couldn't resist. I usually don't even respond to these types of threads, but considering so many are popping up lately thought I'd chime in with that AC article (highly recommend reading the whole thing, not just my excerpt. ) and update anxiety thing both of which have a lot of truth to them.
    There was a similar article with reference to 4.3 yesterday I think, in another blog though. Can't quite recall from where, it was just an article amongst many I receive in my RSS feeds.

    I understand the points, what I understand less is why Samsung and the like, cannot push out even minor updates to address bugs that are exclusive to their 'skins'. Instead we're told we have to wait till the next major update is released.

    I guess I was maybe spoilt having had Apple devices for several years prior to chopping in my iPhone 5 for the Note II. A bug or security flaw is identified in iOS and within a short duration a minor iOS update is pushed out.

    Bugs aside, Samsung don't even seem to be in any hurry to close security holes.

    So it's not just about having the most up to date Android version, that would be nice of course, but even getting incremental smaller updates to address bugs and security issues would be nice.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    alamarco and Trees like this.
    07-25-2013 04:27 PM
  8. alamarco's Avatar
    There was a similar article with reference to 4.3 yesterday I think, in another blog though. Can't quite recall from where, it was just an article amongst many I receive in my RSS feeds.

    I understand the points, what I understand less is why Samsung and the like, cannot push out even minor updates to address bugs that are exclusive to their 'skins'. Instead we're told we have to wait till the next major update is released.

    I guess I was maybe spoilt having had Apple devices for several years prior to chopping in my iPhone 5 for the Note II. A bug or security flaw is identified in iOS and within a short duration a minor iOS update is pushed out.

    Bugs aside, Samsung don't even seem to be in any hurry to close security holes.

    So it's not just about having the most up to date Android version, that would be nice of course, but even getting incremental smaller updates to address bugs and security issues would be nice.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Exactly.

    I don't understand why people always associate wanting updates with wanting new features. I want my damn bug fixes and my damn security holes patched. I don't know what surprises me more. That a company would blatantly ignore security concerns and bugs or that users are happy to let it slide? If you criticize a company you get labelled a fanboy for another company.

    Every day that passes I get more and more sick of Samsung. As a customer, I feel that once I bought the device I am now a second thought. They don't care about you anymore. They want you to buy the device and that's it. I absolutely love my Note II, but had I known this going in I wouldn't have bought it. It's my fault for not doing enough research and wrongly assuming companies cared about bugs and security.

    Suffice to say my next device won't be a Samsung. I no longer recommend friends buy Samsung. No one who is security conscious can in their right mind recommend a Samsung product. I'm glad Sony is stepping up and doing something about it. Right now it seems the only smart choice is iPhone or Nexus, but if Sony keeps it up they might join the group. I can't see myself leaving Android, so I dream of Nexus.
    Chris Flowers likes this.
    07-25-2013 07:33 PM
  9. joshwithachance's Avatar
    Too bad no company really updates their devices that fast in the Android world. *sigh*
    07-25-2013 07:50 PM
  10. GMJeff's Avatar
    This is also where companies like Samsung need to put their foot down with the carriers. Samsung may create a patch, but it then goes to at&t, Verizon etc. to be tested for months on end. Then guess what, another security hole is found and patched. Here's a new patch to test.

    Don't worry about the first as it is included in this one. Oh, okay, but we have to test it on our network. Another two months and a new hole. A vicious cycle.

    By the time the newest patch package is testing, a major OS update is upon them and they decide to scrap it for the OS update. Hence, the cancellations sometimes.

    Samsung would have to be like Google if you wanted to see all the updates as they hit, no carrier interaction.

    Sent from my Lumia 920 using Tapatalk
    alamarco likes this.
    07-25-2013 08:07 PM
  11. anon(394005)'s Avatar
    Again, please read this article:

    Why you'll never have the latest version of Android | Android Central

    Pertinent excerpt:
    The only true solution to the Android update problem is a change in mindset, or if that doesnt work, a change of handset. Android will never be able to offer across-the-board updates like Apple does -- its technically impossible for the wide variety of reasons weve already covered.

    Android phone owners, community members and fans need to appreciate that updates are hard to develop, and take time and money to put out, and when carriers get involved, they can be subject to long, tedious delays. Thats not the case with iOS and Windows Phone, but theyre very different operating systems. Painful as it may be to admit, waiting for updates will be part of the Android experience for many years to come.
    07-25-2013 08:19 PM
  12. alamarco's Avatar
    Again, please read this article:

    Why you'll never have the latest version of Android | Android Central

    Pertinent excerpt:
    Yeah, okay. Let's again quote the article of complete BS that yet again tries to make it sound acceptable that we wait for updates. We need to appreciate that updates are hard and slow as molasses? Give me a break! Any developer knows that updates are a huge part of their product.

    Security issues need to be patched right away or your customers run the risk of stolen data, identity theft, etc. Bugs need to be fixed or you end up annoying your customer and have them lose faith. No one wants to use a product that doesn't even work right. New features eventually need to be added as a last priority. You need to keep your customer interested in what you offer.

    If I took a year to fix a security issue I'd be fired long before that year mark even hit. Same with bugs. If you can't fix it what worth are you to the company that has you employed? All these issues can be fixed quite quickly if Samsung did something about it.

    Again, it's people like yourself who are the reason why nothing gets done. It used to be companies tried their hardest to please the customer because the customer wasn't afraid to walk. Now a days it's complete opposite. People actually defend companies for not caring one bit about the customer and putting the customer last. Brand loyalty is insane.

    It's funny. If people actually walked away from Samsung you'd be amazed how fast these "hard to develop" updates would come. If no one walks away, Samsung is under no pressure to do anything. Samsung could ease the process themselves and take the carriers out of it. Why don't they grow some balls and tell carriers it's over?

    It's not just Samsung either. I'm using Samsung here, but you can replace that with most manufacturers.
    Chris Flowers likes this.
    07-25-2013 08:43 PM
  13. dpham00's Avatar
    This is also where companies like Samsung need to put their foot down with the carriers. Samsung may create a patch, but it then goes to at&t, Verizon etc. to be tested for months on end. Then guess what, another security hole is found and patched. Here's a new patch to test.

    Don't worry about the first as it is included in this one. Oh, okay, but we have to test it on our network. Another two months and a new hole. A vicious cycle.

    By the time the newest patch package is testing, a major OS update is upon them and they decide to scrap it for the OS update. Hence, the cancellations sometimes.

    Samsung would have to be like Google if you wanted to see all the updates as they hit, no carrier interaction.

    Sent from my Lumia 920 using Tapatalk
    Correction, apple. They are the only ones. Even google Nexus updates on Verizon require carrier interaction if carrier branded.

    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note II
    07-25-2013 09:11 PM
  14. GMJeff's Avatar
    No, I meant that they would have to be like nexus devices where the carrier is not involved in the update process per se. And yes, Apple is the same.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    07-25-2013 10:17 PM
  15. anon(394005)'s Avatar
    Yeah, okay. Let's again quote the article of complete BS that yet again tries to make it sound acceptable that we wait for updates. We need to appreciate that updates are hard and slow as molasses? Give me a break! Any developer knows that updates are a huge part of their product.

    Security issues need to be patched right away or your customers run the risk of stolen data, identity theft, etc. Bugs need to be fixed or you end up annoying your customer and have them lose faith. No one wants to use a product that doesn't even work right. New features eventually need to be added as a last priority. You need to keep your customer interested in what you offer.

    If I took a year to fix a security issue I'd be fired long before that year mark even hit. Same with bugs. If you can't fix it what worth are you to the company that has you employed? All these issues can be fixed quite quickly if Samsung did something about it.

    Again, it's people like yourself who are the reason why nothing gets done. It used to be companies tried their hardest to please the customer because the customer wasn't afraid to walk. Now a days it's complete opposite. People actually defend companies for not caring one bit about the customer and putting the customer last. Brand loyalty is insane.

    It's funny. If people actually walked away from Samsung you'd be amazed how fast these "hard to develop" updates would come. If no one walks away, Samsung is under no pressure to do anything. Samsung could ease the process themselves and take the carriers out of it. Why don't they grow some balls and tell carriers it's over?

    It's not just Samsung either. I'm using Samsung here, but you can replace that with most manufacturers.
    Sounds like you didn't read the entire article. It actually provides a wealth of information about the Android update process and valid reasons for delays. It also covers a lot of your comments and how you're reacting here. So I wouldn't call it BS at all.
    07-25-2013 11:03 PM
  16. alamarco's Avatar
    Sounds like you didn't read the entire article. It actually provides a wealth of information about the Android update process and valid reasons for delays. It also covers a lot of your comments and how you're reacting here. So I wouldn't call it BS at all.
    Sounds like I did read the article since I know it's BS. It covers nothing except making excuses and giving terrible information out to uninformed people. It's a shameful article.
    Chris Flowers likes this.
    07-26-2013 06:23 AM
  17. JasW's Avatar
    Sounds like I did read the article since I know it's BS. It covers nothing except making excuses and giving terrible information out to uninformed people. It's a shameful article.
    There are always people who are never satisfied with any device, no matter the manufacturer. I have no problem waiting for whatever bug fixes and security hole patches that are ostensibly coming because whatever bugs and security holes there are have not been giving me any real problems. Then again, I came to the Note 2 from a BlackBerry, so everything looks good to me.
    Chris Flowers likes this.
    07-26-2013 07:32 AM
  18. Chris Flowers's Avatar
    Sounds like you didn't read the entire article. It actually provides a wealth of information about the Android update process and valid reasons for delays. It also covers a lot of your comments and how you're reacting here. So I wouldn't call it BS at all.
    Wait-a-go on continually glazing over points made in this thread and just quoting the same article.

    I've read the damn article and it still does not make a bit of difference to how I feel security issues should be dealt with in a timely manner via smaller updates.

    There are always people who are never satisfied with any device, no matter the manufacturer. I have no problem waiting for whatever bug fixes and security hole patches that are ostensibly coming because whatever bugs and security holes there are have not been giving me any real problems. Then again, I came to the Note 2 from a BlackBerry, so everything looks good to me.
    Haha that last line made me chuckle!

    The worst part in all of this for me, is how I always believed the "Android is open therefore better then X" was just fanboy nonsense. But I eventually caved with purchase of a Nexus 7. What I found, I liked, which led on to me getting the Note II. However it's actually far more truthful to say that Android is "open" to manufacturers and mobile networks, to Joe Blogs, the end user, is as closed as say, iOS, just with a little more free reign on UI customisation.

    Sure you can go the root way, but that only makes Android "open" in so much as a Jailbreak makes iOS "open". In fact in some respect it's worse then a Jailbreak, as at least Jailbreak retains the current iOS but allows you to do more with it.

    With rooting, you have to choose a ROM developed by a team, which is essentially Android tinkered with to how that team sees fit.

    So iOS you get Apple's software, locked until you jailbreak it open, but it remains Apple's version of the software. On the opposite side, you get Google's software, locked by the manufacturer, further tinkered with by the network operator, still locked until rooted. Rooted you can have Google's software, tinkered with by a community team of developers, open on your device.

    I still won't go back to Apple. I will however look more closely at the competition and how they deal with software updates. I've no loyalty to Samsung. Before moving to a Samsung device I always felt their advertisements taking cheap shots at Apple device owners was in poor taste and spirits, and turned me off the company. My options were limited however as I hankered for a phablet and there wasn't much competition.

    I do enjoy my Note II however, I cannot deny that.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    alamarco likes this.
    07-26-2013 08:10 AM
  19. anon(394005)'s Avatar
    Sounds like I did read the article since I know it's BS. It covers nothing except making excuses and giving terrible information out to uninformed people. It's a shameful article.
    Wait-a-go on continually glazing over points made in this thread and just quoting the same article.

    I've read the damn article and it still does not make a bit of difference to how I feel security issues should be dealt with in a timely manner via smaller updates.

    Haha that last line made me chuckle!

    The worst part in all of this for me, is how I always believed the "Android is open therefore better then X" was just fanboy nonsense. But I eventually caved with purchase of a Nexus 7. What I found, I liked, which led on to me getting the Note II. However it's actually far more truthful to say that Android is "open" to manufacturers and mobile networks, to Joe Blogs, the end user, is as closed as say, iOS, just with a little more free reign on UI customisation.

    Sure you can go the root way, but that only makes Android "open" in so much as a Jailbreak makes iOS "open". In fact in some respect it's worse then a Jailbreak, as at least Jailbreak retains the current iOS but allows you to do more with it.

    With rooting, you have to choose a ROM developed by a team, which is essentially Android tinkered with to how that team sees fit.

    So iOS you get Apple's software, locked until you jailbreak it open, but it remains Apple's version of the software. On the opposite side, you get Google's software, locked by the manufacturer, further tinkered with by the network operator, still locked until rooted. Rooted you can have Google's software, tinkered with by a community team of developers, open on your device.

    I still won't go back to Apple. I will however look more closely at the competition and how they deal with software updates. I've no loyalty to Samsung. Before moving to a Samsung device I always felt their advertisements taking cheap shots at Apple device owners was in poor taste and spirits, and turned me off the company. My options were limited however as I hankered for a phablet and there wasn't much competition.

    I do enjoy my Note II however, I cannot deny that.
    Well then, we'll have to agree to disagree about the article and the Android update process. I was just trying to provide what I thought was helpful information.

    @Chris, the bolded part above is NOT true. You don't have to choose a custom ROM when rooting. Rooting and ROMing are two separate things. Example, I root all my Android devices, but still keep/use the stock ROM that came on the device. I root for the following (in order of importance):

    1. Use AdAway with the MVPS blocking hosts file (blocks known malicious websites as well as ads) - Note: Google removed it from the Play Store, but you can get it from the dev here: AdAway | sufficiently secure
    2. Freeze the OTA updater. I want control over when and IF my system gets an update. I prefer to evaluate updates when they're released (via change logs or others who have installed/reported on it) to see if it's worth updating or not.
    3. Gain full control over system to apply any system level modifications if needed. An example of this was with my Verizon Note 2 where for some unknown reason they disabled the following feature and I wanted it back: Re-enable infinite scroll on home screens and app drawer http://forums.androidcentral.com/ver...e-screens.html

    See this AC article for some very good info on rooting: Rooting - is it for me? Some Q&A | Android Central
    07-26-2013 10:50 AM
  20. Chris Flowers's Avatar
    Well then, we'll have to agree to disagree about the article and the Android update process. I was just trying to provide what I thought was helpful information.

    @Chris, the bolded part above is NOT true. You don't have to choose a custom ROM when rooting. Rooting and ROMing are two separate things. Example, I root all my Android devices, but still keep/use the stock ROM that came on the device. I root for the following (in order of importance):

    1. Use AdAway with the MVPS blocking hosts file (blocks known malicious websites as well as ads) - Note: Google removed it from the Play Store, but you can get it from the dev here: AdAway | sufficiently secure
    2. Freeze the OTA updater. I want control over when and IF my system gets an update. I prefer to evaluate updates when they're released (via change logs or others who have installed/reported on it) to see if it's worth updating or not.
    3. Gain full control over system to apply any system level modifications if needed. An example of this was with my Verizon Note 2 where for some unknown reason they disabled the following feature and I wanted it back: Re-enable infinite scroll on home screens and app drawer http://forums.androidcentral.com/ver...e-screens.html

    See this AC article for some very good info on rooting: Rooting - is it for me? Some Q&A | Android Central
    Ok perhaps what I should have said is, if Google release a new Android version and you would like that, you have to root and go with a ROM based on that version of Android.
    07-26-2013 02:50 PM
  21. MaxBuck's Avatar
    I've never understood why Android users expect their operating system to be updated. Nobody promised us that the OS would be updated on a particular schedule, or even updated at all. The idea that a company "owes" us updates strikes me as just ridiculous.
    07-26-2013 03:43 PM
  22. Chris Flowers's Avatar
    I've never understood why Android users expect their operating system to be updated. Nobody promised us that the OS would be updated on a particular schedule, or even updated at all. The idea that a company "owes" us updates strikes me as just ridiculous.
    That is the most absurd thing I have read yet.

    You don't buy an operating system like Windows and expect it not to receive updates. The reason being is that BETA testing cannot find every bug. Thus the software goes out to the masses and receives updates as and when 'real world' usage discovers them.

    The exact same applies to mobile OS's. Even more so in today's technological age where our mobile phones really are, computers in our pockets. Even back in the early days of smart phones Nokia would push out downlandable software updates and later OTA. No they didn't promise them at point of sale, but they didn't need to, because they were a decent company that ensured it's existing customer base received updates to iron out bugs and improve the customer's experience.

    So yes, when I buy a mobile phone now, especially if it's running some form of one of the big three systems, I expect it to be updated, to a finite extent.

    Also, it's very naive to have the closed view that just because your device is not experiencing a particular bug, then others should put up and shut up.
    alamarco likes this.
    07-26-2013 04:55 PM
  23. MaxBuck's Avatar
    That is the most absurd thing I have read yet.

    You don't buy an operating system like Windows and expect it not to receive updates.
    So you've received a free update from Windows XP to Windows 7?

    I can understand the desire for bug fixes, and that's a reasonable demand of the OS development team. But not upgraded functionality, which is what most people whine about not getting.
    07-27-2013 10:31 PM
  24. alamarco's Avatar
    So you've received a free update from Windows XP to Windows 7?

    I can understand the desire for bug fixes, and that's a reasonable demand of the OS development team. But not upgraded functionality, which is what most people whine about not getting.
    Seems to me most in this thread are complaining about security and bugs.

    Windows XP was supported for 10 years for bugs and security fixes.
    Chris Flowers likes this.
    07-27-2013 10:38 PM
  25. Chris Flowers's Avatar
    So you've received a free update from Windows XP to Windows 7?
    No, I received years of updates to each iteration of Windows I've owned. Some which added features, but most just fixed bugs. Your point?

    I can understand the desire for bug fixes, and that's a reasonable demand of the OS development team. But not upgraded functionality, which is what most people whine about not getting.
    Well not in this thread they haven't.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    07-28-2013 05:12 PM
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