Samsung fabricates the chips, but they don't design them. If I followed a recipe from a master chef I am not a master chef. It also doesn't mean I'm talent-less, but what Samsung is doing with their fab vs what companies like an Apple, Qualcomm, Marvell, etc do is a huge difference.
Snapdragon 800 Vs Apple A7
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Samsung fabricates the chips, but they don't design them. If I followed a recipe from a master chef I am not a master chef. It also doesn't mean I'm talent-less, but what Samsung is doing with their fab vs what companies like an Apple, Qualcomm, Marvell, etc do is a huge difference.
It isn't exactly fair to leave Samsung off that list since they also make arm based SOC's. It isn't a correct assumption to infer samsung doesn't know how to design there own. The exynos line are Samsungs take on integration with standard ARM cpu's.
In fact when the cortex A9 was the standard design Samsung had the fasest SOC. The S800 is a bit better the Samsung's A15 based exynos cpus though.
What apple did was jump right to the A57 based architecture instead of producing a second a15 based cpu. Probably at a much lower clock then everyone else will when they release theirs. That is my understanding of it. Sometimes producing the next gen chip at a lower clock is good idea if it is efficient enough. Especially if they couldn't push there a15 based design to the performance they wanted.
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In fact when the cortex A9 was the standard design Samsung had the fasest SOC. The S800 is a bit better the Samsung's A15 based exynos cpus though.
What apple did was jump right to the A57 based architecture instead of producing a second a15 based cpu. Probably at a much lower clock then everyone else will when they release theirs. That is my understanding of it. Sometimes producing the next gen chip at a lower clock is good idea if it is efficient enough. Especially if they couldn't push there a15 based design to the performance they wanted.
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If he is ranking the Note 3 camera number one, then how can his reviews be believed?
Probably because the video is better with better features. No other phone right now in the world has 4k video recording.
Are you sure? Based On this article samsung still isn't Arm AArchitectural license. ....
What if Samsung Exynos Goes ARM Architectural? | EE Times
There are two kinds of arm license agreement with ARM. One for the instruction set and some design aspects and another for the exact processor architecture. SAMSUNG generally licenses the whole cpu architecture. So samsung actually has a A15 or A9 cpu as arm intended. Qualcomm, Apple, and a few others have the other one. Generally they have slight differences from ARMs design
Just because they use the A15 or A9 from ARM doesn't mean they don't have to design the thing. ARM just provides guidlines.
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Just because they use the A15 or A9 from ARM doesn't mean they don't have to design the thing. ARM just provides guidlines.
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Kevin OQuinn
AC Team Emeritus
That's not entirely accurate. A company can either license the instruction set and build their own chip that works with those, or license the whole core, in which case the core design is already done and you just build around it. There are pluses and minuses to both ways.
If you only license the instruction set then you have total control over the design of the core and surrounding parts. That does give an efficiency bonus, because it can be tailor made for the OS/software you're running. It's more expensive, though, and takes longer to get to market. Qualcomm and Apple both do this, and you can see where it got them (top of the heap for now).
If you license the core you can get to market faster (generally speaking) but you're not really gaining any competitive advantage over anybody else. A15 is A15, whether you're Samsung or nVidia.
So far what we've seen is a game of leap frog. Qualcomm will release a new core architecture that takes the crown, and then ARM will release their next core reference design, which generally has outperformed Qualcomm (though it's more muddied with recent releases), and vice versa.
Qualcomm will most likely retain the performance crown (leaving the A7 out of this) until we see ARM A57 cores next year. None of this has any affect on GPU performance, since those are completely separate from the CPU core.
I think we were trying to say pretty much the same thing.
I don't agree with the ARM Core being a simple as just a drop in and use it. It was my understanding that ARM gives them the features and basic layout. But there is allot involved in taking that to fabrication. Allot of which is design, and customization that can effect performance.
I also don't agree with the custom chips generally being better at performance. The Qualcomm A9 class CPU's were really week compared to Samsung and others. But they were the first to come to market, and that was largely due to leaving certain ARM A9 features off the Scropian S3( or that is my understanding atleast). Also the first Kriat CPU's were found to be not as fast as a true A15 found in lets say the Nexus 10. Qualcomm's second gen A15 class CPU fixed that and now the S800 is just incredible.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the A57 class chips come out next hear.
I don't agree with the ARM Core being a simple as just a drop in and use it. It was my understanding that ARM gives them the features and basic layout. But there is allot involved in taking that to fabrication. Allot of which is design, and customization that can effect performance.
I also don't agree with the custom chips generally being better at performance. The Qualcomm A9 class CPU's were really week compared to Samsung and others. But they were the first to come to market, and that was largely due to leaving certain ARM A9 features off the Scropian S3( or that is my understanding atleast). Also the first Kriat CPU's were found to be not as fast as a true A15 found in lets say the Nexus 10. Qualcomm's second gen A15 class CPU fixed that and now the S800 is just incredible.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the A57 class chips come out next hear.
Kevin OQuinn
AC Team Emeritus
The ARM core isn't as simple as that, no. You still have to design everything else around it, and that can have a huge impact on overall performance of the chip.
RE: Custom chips - The Scorpion core was much older than the A9 chips from Samsung at the time. Remember when it launched? First device was the Nexus 1, but the Scorpion 1ghz chip was out even before that. The dual-core Scorpion solutions weren't the greatest, though, because it was just a stopgap solution until Krait came out. They performed well enough, but you could tell the design was old, and time wasn't kind. The time of the dual-cores was ruled by Exynos (and to a lesser extent TI), if we're talking about pure performance. The first dual-core Krait from Qualcomm were a true leap forward in performance and battery life. They were performance equals to the quad-cores of the time, while being more power efficient. The Exynos 52xx wasn't out yet, though (Nexus 10 was launched ~6 months after the One X), so that comparison isn't quite fair. That particular Exynos never appeared in a phone that was widely available, either.
I completely agree with all of that. My point and opionion of Qualcomm is that in several cases they have held back on certain harder to implement features to get the chip out. When the Original Scorpion was released the comparable part was the Samsung Hummingbird CPU in the Galaxy S. The Qualcomm chip released first and yes was slower, it wasn't a fully implemented A8 Core. The Scorpian S2 and S3 were A9 class CPU's, but again not fully implemented. They again beat Samsung and many other A9 class chips to market but were quickly outpaced once everyone elses chips released. Last the Krait Chips hit and were the first A15 Class chip to hit the market. Again the first iteration of the Krait was missing some CPU features the ARM A15 had. I am not completely sure what improvements the newer Krait's have but they seem to be atleast marginally better then ARMs A15.
The trend with Qualcomm for sometime was to design for timeline and not exactly the best performance. There isn't anything wrong with that. It lets us continue to constantly improve, otherwise we would be waiting longer for new faster devices. But my point was that the custom cores don't exactly mean better performance then the ARM core counterparts.
The trend with Qualcomm for sometime was to design for timeline and not exactly the best performance. There isn't anything wrong with that. It lets us continue to constantly improve, otherwise we would be waiting longer for new faster devices. But my point was that the custom cores don't exactly mean better performance then the ARM core counterparts.
JHBThree
Well-known member
The scorpion core was NOT an A9 class chip. It was an older design more comparable to the A8 and was released long before the first A9 designs hit the market. (Some of the first scorpion devices were released in 2008, almost five years ago) Qualcomm's answer to the A9 was the original Krait, which destroyed the A9 in every conceivable category.
Similarly, the krait design was released before any A15 designs were on the market, so you cannot compare them. The correct comparison for the A15 is the newer krait core in the 600 and 800, both of which match or exceed the A15. (In the case of the 800, they eat other off the shelf ARM designs alive)
Also, the big elephant in the room you've missed is that Apple's custom chips prove your assertion wrong; in every category, apple's chips decimate any off the shelf ARM design. In most cases, they do that with two fewer cores and a much lower clock speed.
The reason why is simple: when a chip design is custom, every single specification is built to serve a specific purpose, and it is much easier to get higher performance out of those chips when you control the design from top to bottom.
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Ok first it is my understanding the first custom CPU Core from Apple was the A6(swift). Until then they were using the same ARM A8 and A9 Cores everyone else was. There SOC's have gennerally be better because of the GPU they have been using. That PowerVR GPU is just really powerful. I never understood why others never deployed it.
As far as Qualcomm goes you have to look at what features the CPU's are using not when it was released. As I stated above the first iteration of the scorpion was based on features that the Cortex A8 had. Then the Scorpian S2 and S3 had features that Cortex A9 had. The origintal Krait had certain features that were intially deployed in the Coretex A15. It is much closer to a A15 then a A9 core. I say class because of the feature set not because of performance. There is a thread in the Nexus 10 forums that is basically this same conversation.
There's seriously gotta be a point where we stop & ask ourselves "am I really arguing over phone specs & putting energy into benchmark results"? Lol who cares about all this crap. The only thing that matters is how much the app takes advantage of said hardware & this rests in the hands of the developers.
Pappy, you have lost your marbles man. It looks like like you've been trying to justify your purchase this entire thread (you aren't the only one, just thr most obnoxious). You have never used any of these phones that you are comparing your beloved to. No, you haven't. I know because I deal with people like you for a living all the time. I've had the opportunity to use a 5s, N3, and G2. I'm sorry, but of those three the G2 is easily the best pick (unless you need a phablet). And yes, if you want to go with benchmarks, the G2 obliterates the 5s in all tests that can be compared across devices. The N3 is a fine device but you actually are so right about Samsung. They don't know how to optimize anything. There is no reason the Note 3 should lag (it does... I experienced it and so has many at XDA.. All phones lag at some point but there is no excuse to have any of these three lagging on the home screen period.) and something is very wrong here.
Don't take that as a personal attack. Everyone here defending their Samsung's are just as bad as they are ignoring tthe shortcomings of their devices as well. Samsung smokes everyone in those benchmarks because when a popular benchmark app is recognized in the kernel, it's hard coded to run the app with the performance governor. Phones that don't cheat use the default throttling and of course Samsung will be ahead. It's not cheating to use a performance governor, if YOU are the one changing the governor. If you have root, try changing the name of say, the 3DMark app and try benchmarking again. I betcha this time the Sammy will bench lower. You may need to resign the benchmark app as well (signapktool is a good app), but I remembered changing the app name worked as well when I tried it. Without that advantage the Note 3 actually clocks even with and lower than other top devices using the S800 (but still smashes the 5s)
Don't take that as a personal attack. Everyone here defending their Samsung's are just as bad as they are ignoring tthe shortcomings of their devices as well. Samsung smokes everyone in those benchmarks because when a popular benchmark app is recognized in the kernel, it's hard coded to run the app with the performance governor. Phones that don't cheat use the default throttling and of course Samsung will be ahead. It's not cheating to use a performance governor, if YOU are the one changing the governor. If you have root, try changing the name of say, the 3DMark app and try benchmarking again. I betcha this time the Sammy will bench lower. You may need to resign the benchmark app as well (signapktool is a good app), but I remembered changing the app name worked as well when I tried it. Without that advantage the Note 3 actually clocks even with and lower than other top devices using the S800 (but still smashes the 5s)
HarvesterX™;3169372 said:
Okay, if you say so.
Apple's iPhone 5S 'fastest phone ever tested' beating Samsung's Galaxy S4 | Mail Online
iPhone 5s Benchmarks: iPhone 5s Crushes Rivals in Performance Tests | BGR
AnandTech | The iPhone 5s Review
Apple iPhone 5s vs Samsung Galaxy Note 3 - Interface and Functionality (Add the G2 in the drop down menu).
BTW, I don't need to justify a purchase for the phone that is best for me. I would call you the obnoxious one, for posting on here without doing some research. And you say that I have lost my marbles?
/smhHuh? The iPhone 5S curb stomps the G2 in every real-world test of speed and responsiveness and in synthetic benchmarks as well. It's hilarious how the 1.3 GHz dual-core A7 scores 15-20% high than a 2.2 GHz quad-core in absolute numbers.
Is that taking into consideration the resolution difference? We are comparing full hd with sub 720p
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stackberry369
Well-known member
Yeah but it won't be getting all the iPhone 6 features.
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