Snapdragon 800 Vs Apple A7

[Auzo]

Moving to a 64 bit os is not BS. That's the reality you're ignoring.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

I wouldn't say that moving to 64 bit is BS, but you will not see tangible benefits from it for years if ever. In the scope of the keynote, Apple is doing what they do best (although its not only Apple that does this) and trying to pull the wool over the eyes of our less tech savvy friends.

Bottom line is that you need 64bit really for only two things.
1) A large total memory pool
2) A high precision, 64 bit, data type (without taking huge performance penalties)

Mobile devices, for the foreseeable future, will not need either of those two things and here is why:

1) Looking at those together the only thing that needs them both is STEM (Science, Tech, Engineering, and Math) related tasks. Modeling and simulation of systems, processes, etc.These types of tasks take tons of memory and require very high precision to provide accurate results. These tasks will not be done on mobile devices for the foreseeable future if ever.

2) Looking at a large total memory pool, excluding point 1 above, the main driver of this is multitasking/productivity and to a lesser degree gaming. Breaking this up by each category we see the following:

a) Mobile Devices don't lend themselves to heavy duty multitasking or heavy duty productivity. By heavy duty i mean enough to really push your need for a large memory pool beyond 4GB. If you are doing that kind of heavy duty multitasking or productivity tasks you are most likely going to prefer the workflow behind a multi-monitor PC(in the general sense, Apple included)​

B) The key driver for a large memory pool when gaming is screen resolution and graphics quality. you need both a high resolution screen and a GPU that can pump out very high quality graphics at that high resolution to start to need a large memory pool for gaming. High resolution is starting to make its way into mobile devices (1080p does not count as high res for gaming memory purposes, I'm talking 2K and up), but the graphics quality is still way behind PC's for example even at only 1080P. Because of this the amount of RAM you need is not all that much, certainly less than 4GB.​

I just can't see mobile devices in their current state making use of a 64bit processor architecture.

edit: I was thinking, after the fact, that maybe encoding video could potentially benefit from 64bit, but then I remembered that mobile device SOCs always have an ASIC that is specifically used for this and is separate from the general compute processor. So a 64bit general compute processor wouldn't help that.

 

[Farish]

I wouldn't say that moving to 64 bit is BS, but you will not see tangible benefits from it for years if ever. In the scope of the keynote, Apple is doing what they do best (although its not only Apple that does this) and trying to pull the wool over the eyes of our less tech savvy friends.

Bottom line is that you need 64bit really for only two things.
1) A large total memory pool
2) A high precision, 64 bit, data type (without taking huge performance penalties)

Mobile devices, for the foreseeable future, will not need either of those two things and here is why:

1) Looking at those together the only thing that needs them both is STEM (Science, Tech, Engineering, and Math) related tasks. Modeling and simulation of systems, processes, etc.These types of tasks take tons of memory and require very high precision to provide accurate results. These tasks will not be done on mobile devices for the foreseeable future if ever.

2) Looking at a large total memory pool, excluding point 1 above, the main driver of this is multitasking/productivity and to a lesser degree gaming. Breaking this up by each category we see the following:

a) Mobile Devices don't lend themselves to heavy duty multitasking or heavy duty productivity. By heavy duty i mean enough to really push your need for a large memory pool beyond 4GB. If you are doing that kind of heavy duty multitasking or productivity tasks you are most likely going to prefer the workflow behind a multi-monitor PC(in the general sense, Apple included)​

B) The key driver for a large memory pool when gaming is screen resolution and graphics quality. you need both a high resolution screen and a GPU that can pump out very high quality graphics at that high resolution to start to need a large memory pool for gaming. High resolution is starting to make its way into mobile devices (1080p does not count as high res for gaming memory purposes, I'm talking 2K and up), but the graphics quality is still way behind PC's for example even at only 1080P. Because of this the amount of RAM you need is not all that much, certainly less than 4GB.​

I just can't see mobile devices in their current state making use of a 64bit processor architecture.

edit: I was thinking, after the fact, that maybe encoding video could potentially benefit from 64bit, but then I remembered that mobile device SOCs always have an ASIC that is specifically used for this and is separate from the general compute processor. So a 64bit general compute processor wouldn't help that.

VPN transmission will benefit from 64 bit computing.

Encryption of data performance will benefit from 64 bit computing(i.e. your fingerprint being stored on the device).

Biometric accuracy (Fingerprint scanning) will benefit from 64bit computing.

There will be boosts in floating point and general purpose calculations.

That is basically it.

 

[Farish]

One more thing I like to add.

I think the Note 3 is still superior in every way versus the iPhone 5s.

I also think that the Note 3 is in a different market than the 5s, I think a better comparison would be the iPhone 5s with the G2 or any upcoming Snapdragon 800 device.

 

[Zergslayer69]

Totally doesn't answer the question for the thread, but hey fun info anyways. Just ran the 720p 3dmark test on both my note 2 and my ipad 4. Note 2 ice storm scores is 3308 while ipad 4 scores is 9360. Both were fully restarted before I ran the test. Based on the antutu scores I saw for the snapdragon 800, it's about 3 times faster than the note 2, so that brings it on par with the ipad 4, roughly. We'll have to wait until someone does a definitive test.

 

[MannyZ28]

Totally doesn't answer the question for the thread, but hey fun info anyways. Just ran the 720p 3dmark test on both my note 2 and my ipad 4. Note 2 ice storm scores is 3308 while ipad 4 scores is 9360. Both were fully restarted before I ran the test. Based on the antutu scores I saw for the snapdragon 800, it's about 3 times faster than the note 2, so that brings it on par with the ipad 4, roughly. We'll have to wait until someone does a definitive test.

After actually watching the whole iPhone keynote, I must say, there is no way the Note 3 will win a 3dMark shootout with the iPhone 5S. The graphics and loading speed of Infinity Blade 3 really did look console quality, best I have seen on a mobile device.

 

[Auzo]

VPN transmission will benefit from 64 bit computing.

Encryption of data performance will benefit from 64 bit computing(i.e. your fingerprint being stored on the device).

Biometric accuracy (Fingerprint scanning) will benefit from 64bit computing.

There will be boosts in floating point and general purpose calculations.

That is basically it.

Your first two points both tie into improvements in (d)encryption speed, and that is a fair point. But even with the current gen 32bit cores VPN transmission and disk encryption on mobile devices is already done in real time with no noticeable impact. And some mobile SOCs may have a separate ASIC that does the (d)encryption anyways.

I'm very skeptical as to your third point. Please elaborate on how 64bit general compute improves on recognition accuracy? It doesn't. At best it may speed things up a bit, but again not appreciably

As for your last point, there will only be a boost to FP calculation speed if you use 64 bit variables. But as I said in my original post you wouldn't want to unless it was a STEM based task and then you wouldn't be doing it on your mobile device anyways. And unless you really needed the extra precision of 64bit, which you usually don't, using 64 bit variables is actually a detriment because best case your double precision FLOPS are 1/2 of what your single precision FLOPS would be which means you are wasting compute.

I'm not saying that going 64 bit in a mobile chip is bad or worthless, in fact its not, what I'm saying is that its not as big a deal as Apple made it sound. For example, if the A7 was exactly the same except the cores were 32 bit instead of 64 bit, all the numbers the quoted for improvement over the last one would still be the same. The performance improvements for the A7 over the A6 had very little to do with the 64 bit general compute processors.

 

[D13H4RD2L1V3]

Remember that the iPhone 5S has a 640p screen and the Note 3 has a 1080p screen.

Expect higher framerates on the iPhone when both are running apps in their native resolution.

 

[Auzo]

There is still not enough info on the A7 to make a full analysis, but this is what i think so far.

Video/Image processors:
S800 - both do 1080P @ 60 fps but s800 can do 4k @ 30fps with a 120 mbps bitrate. I'll say the image side will be a wash.

CPU:
S800 (tentative) - I would guess the A7 will only have 2 cores but its using the next gen ARM architecture and instruction set so the per core power will be greater but likely not enough to be able to overtake a quad core krait 400 clocked @ 2.3 GHz

GPU:
A7 (tentative) - apple always come strong with their GPUs. I expect this time to be no different.

Audio Processor:
Tie - not sure how much differentiation can be had with audio ASICS

Battery Life:
A7 (tentative) - apple usually goes for lower performance for maximum battery life

Connectivity:
S800 - Qualcomm supports just about every protocol (dual band 802.11 a,b,g,n,ac, Bluetooth 4.0, GSM, CDMA2000, WCDMA, LTE)

 

[fernandez21]

I don't see moving the iPhone to 64bit will make much difference, but remember this means the iPad will also be moving to 64bit its next upgrade, and that will have alot more potential.

 

[asanatheist]

Sigh.

Focusing on ram limitations is what was part of the concept of why Windows went to 64 bit.

The N64 was name such because it had a 64bit processor, yet the system only had 4 mega, yes megabytes of ram. For more intense games you had to buy this ram expansion pack that took you to a whole 8 megabytes of ram. That still irks me to this day.

64bit processors can handle a wider datapath so you can process more data faster at the same time. Calculations can be pulled in faster chunks.
64bit processors can handle larger integers, larger numbers means more complex calculations at a faster rate. Because the integers I am referring to are involving strings of bits.
Then 64bit can handle larger memory address, yes this can mean ram, but it can also take in larger chunks of memory to process within its own pipeline and cache.

So it wasn't just about ram. 64bit processing did help with that limitation but there was much more with it.

Apple going to 64 bit also did a couple other things.

It gave them a processor to handle biometric calculations better(Fingerprint Sensor). Also encryption technologies like high level vpns for governmental agencies require a heavy workload, so that was part of this switch as well.

But yes 64 bit processor helps a lot outside of just ram.

By the way, a lot of mid tier video cards are 192-256 bit cards. Yet most of them only come with 1-2gb of ram. The Geforce 780 only has 3gb of ram but is a 384bit card.

Why go through all that if it wasn't going to help processing at all.

All of this is correct, except mobile processors do not have the processing power to take advantage of any of these advantages.
It's a shame.

64 bit processors would be better left off to the highest end tablets with full OS's.

 

[TroyBoy30]

Apple is smart to lay the foundations for 64-bit mobile computing now, for three reasons. First, large memory capacity is an academic issue in the mobile market today, but it won't always be. Second, the 64-bit transition happens to come along with other chip changes that are useful immediately. And third, it gives Apple more flexibility to build ARM-based PCs if it chooses to embrace an alternative to Intel chips.

 

[thegame161]

Anybody know if UK gets the snapdragon 800?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Roundpotato]

Future Samsung phones will have 64-bit CPUs too, says CEO | Android Central

Looks like the Galaxy S5 will have a 64 bit processor. Sigh, why can't the note be the tick, not the tock.

 

[MannyZ28]

Future Samsung phones will have 64-bit CPUs too, says CEO | Android Central

Looks like the Galaxy S5 will have a 64 bit processor. Sigh, why can't the note be the tick, not the tock.

The note is the tock. First the Galaxy S comes out, then the Note which is the S on steroids. You can't expect them to have a 64 bit processor days after apple announced theres. We already get a speed bump compared to the S4, so it will be the same thing next year.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Roundpotato]

The note is the tock. First the Galaxy S comes out, then the Note which is the S on steroids. You can't expect them to have a 64 bit processor days after apple announced theres. We already get a speed bump compared to the S4, so it will be the same thing next year.

Posted via Android Central App

It wouldn't be so bad if the next tick wasn't such a big change. Buying into the last product of a technology on the way out sucks. There might not be a big performance improvement from 64 bit, but there's a compatibility change. Developers will continue making 32 bit apps for the foreseeable future, even with 64 bit out, but one day they'll stop, and then my phone won't get the new apps. I don't like buying a phone with the idea that I'll replace it in 2 years; I want to buy one and keep it indefinitely, and this shortens that potential indefinite period.

 

[Craig King]

Well with how the Note has changed each generation I would certainly say that next year this could be big deal for it in the NOTE 4. With the current iteration of the phone using 3GB of ram and all the multitasking it does I can see it needing 64bit just for memory addressing in the next iteration.

The big thing here is that I don't think anyone says going 64 bit is a bad thing. We just don't really agree with the amount of improvement the end user will get. I still believe the A7 will be a great SOC and the Iphone 5s will be a decent piece of hardware. 64 bit computing has specific benefits that center around large data set processing.

Not that it is a great comparison but look at computers. Think about how long it took for 64bit computing to take off even after the hardware supported it. In most cases on a pc with 64 bit windows, it is simply that way to allow for more memory. Most apps out today aren't 64 bit even for the PC in a consumer market. Even most games aren't 64 bit on pc's. The only apps I have that are are SETI at home and a few video editing tools.

 

[Haalcyon]

In the next few months I'll be likely moving to a Note 3 and 2014 Note 10.1. I'm imagining this to be quite the power couple.

Sent from my humble Note 8.0 LTE

 

[Farish]

It wouldn't be so bad if the next tick wasn't such a big change. Buying into the last product of a technology on the way out sucks. There might not be a big performance improvement from 64 bit, but there's a compatibility change. Developers will continue making 32 bit apps for the foreseeable future, even with 64 bit out, but one day they'll stop, and then my phone won't get the new apps. I don't like buying a phone with the idea that I'll replace it in 2 years; I want to buy one and keep it indefinitely, and this shortens that potential indefinite period.

There is no development of 64 bit apps on IOS. Xcode will compile two binaries.

I am sure Android will be setup the same.

One difference is that Google will determine when Android goes 64 bit regardless what Samsung does.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using AC Forums mobile app

 

[Craig King]

In the next few months I'll be likely moving to a Note 3 and 2014 Note 10.1. I'm imagining this to be quite the power couple.

Sent from my humble Note 8.0 LTE

I will say this. I got the OG NOTE on ATT at release. Within about a month I almost never touched my xoom. When the nexus 10 came out I upgraded and because of the high res display I found more reasons to use it. So now i do use my 10" tab allot. I personally I wouldn't buy both. I would either get the 2014 Note 10.1 and something like a MotoX, or get the Note 3 and then get some other cheaper high quality 10" tab. Maybe it is also a generation thing on why I switched from the tab to the phone and then back to tab for certain uses. My OG Note is pretty slow now. So maybe rotate between which one to upgraded.

I love the fact you apparently already have Note 8.0 with LTE. I have been seriously be thinking about that to as it seems to be to be the perfect not taking size.

 

[Craig King]

If there is no development, then there is no optimization. That could further negate any potential advantages 64 bit could offer.