10-03-2013 11:56 AM
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  1. jrham's Avatar
    Thank you, I understand that and didn't really need the long explanation but I appreciate it. I understand why many people are up in arms but its still their own processor doing actual work, nothing is being side stepped. What would you think if Samsung changed their code to run full tilt 100% of the time? (horrible battery life I know) I guess the biggest question one should have is whether they look at benchmarks as potential of the system or everyday use of the system? I myself could careless about benchmark numbers, what matters to me is everyday usability regardless of a benchmark score of 1 or 1 million.
    I'd love this whole topic to go away because it's just another reason for people to fight, flame and troll (not call out anyone, just sayin)

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using AC Forums mobile app
    10-03-2013 10:35 AM
  2. mavrrick's Avatar
    You actually hit the nail on the head. No one should look at a benchmark and think it has anything to do with real world performance other then the very specific task it is benchmarking. There is no good single task to benchmark every aspect of a any machine becuase there are to many variables. This doesn't apply just to Phones but any device. It is all about what are you trying to measure. If you are measureing raw CPU performance every step should be taken to max it out. If it is battery then every step should be taken to max it out.

    There is a reason these are called synthetic benchmarks. They are about potential not about reality, that has always been the case.
    10-03-2013 11:07 AM
  3. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    The question that should be asked then, is are we sure those other apps are not on the "whitelist", and if not, is there a way to add them to the list? Or is there simply some way to tweak the OS to open up more than "normal" levels of performance?
    When the initial work was being done with the S4 to see what was going on a variety of apps and games were tried, some of them VERY popular. None of those apps opened up this extra performance tier. Whether or not things could be added to list I'm not sure, that's beyond me (I'm not a dev), but I'm sure someone is trying to figure out how to do it.

    The problem you'd run into would be running the phone at a thermal limit for an extended period of time beyond that of the benchmark. That could negatively impact longevity of the device itself, as well as the obvious impacts to battery life.

    I'm a Network Engineer / Systems Administrator and it makes perfect sense. However I still don't see the point. The entire purpose of a benchmark is to run everything at max to see what the highest potential is (never expecting to run constantly at that speed/temp therefore never expecting to run at that potential) My system has SLI 780s which you know very well, when I 3D Mark them, they run hotter and faster then I ever intend to run them while working / gaming. However it is still fun to see what the max is. In regards to computers even the latest i7s park half the cores during most events, you have to go into the registry and force then to never park. I feel like this is standard practice for wanting to see how things run at absolute max and in my book is a fair benchmark.
    Absolutely true about the benchmark on desktop GPU's, but that's not a fair comparison. As far as I know (and it's still possible they're being cheated) the GPU is still working within it's thermal limit that's imposed during any other operation (i.e. running a game). So it will throttle down during a benchmark if it needs to. Same with the CPU.

    Sure, you can go and force the cores to never park, but that's a manual operation that you'd need to do before playing a game, and it will come with the same downside of unnecessarily running them at peak performance for relatively little gain.

    The difference being that when you force max speeds artificially you're seeing theoretical performance and not real-world performance. I don't want to know what my hardware can do when running an artificial test that may or may even be indicative of real-world performance. I want to know how well it's going to run the apps and games that I use. A synthetic benchmark might do that, but not if it gets it's own special performance tier that's not available to those games. Absolute worst case scenario would be GLBench showing that XXXX device has the best performance of any device when running a graphics heavy load, like a game, but in real life can't even give a smooth experience without stuttering or heavily dropped frames. No, that's not what's happening here, but would be a worst case scenario.

    Thank you, I understand that and didn't really need the long explanation but I appreciate it. I understand why many people are up in arms but its still their own processor doing actual work, nothing is being side stepped. What would you think if Samsung changed their code to run full tilt 100% of the time? (horrible battery life I know) I guess the biggest question one should have is whether they look at benchmarks as potential of the system or everyday use of the system? I myself could careless about benchmark numbers, what matters to me is everyday usability regardless of a benchmark score of 1 or 1 million.
    I'd love this whole topic to go away because it's just another reason for people to fight, flame and troll (not call out anyone, just sayin)

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using AC Forums mobile app
    I think I answered that somewhat in my reply above.
    10-03-2013 11:14 AM
  4. jrham's Avatar
    Well its a topic I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree.

    Sent from my SGH-T889 using AC Forums mobile app
    Kevin OQuinn likes this.
    10-03-2013 11:18 AM
  5. Sooks's Avatar
    When the initial work was being done with the S4 to see what was going on a variety of apps and games were tried, some of them VERY popular. None of those apps opened up this extra performance tier. Whether or not things could be added to list I'm not sure, that's beyond me (I'm not a dev), but I'm sure someone is trying to figure out how to do it.

    The problem you'd run into would be running the phone at a thermal limit for an extended period of time beyond that of the benchmark. That could negatively impact longevity of the device itself, as well as the obvious impacts to battery life.



    Absolutely true about the benchmark on desktop GPU's, but that's not a fair comparison. As far as I know (and it's still possible they're being cheated) the GPU is still working within it's thermal limit that's imposed during any other operation (i.e. running a game). So it will throttle down during a benchmark if it needs to. Same with the CPU.

    Sure, you can go and force the cores to never park, but that's a manual operation that you'd need to do before playing a game, and it will come with the same downside of unnecessarily running them at peak performance for relatively little gain.

    The difference being that when you force max speeds artificially you're seeing theoretical performance and not real-world performance. I don't want to know what my hardware can do when running an artificial test that may or may even be indicative of real-world performance. I want to know how well it's going to run the apps and games that I use. A synthetic benchmark might do that, but not if it gets it's own special performance tier that's not available to those games. Absolute worst case scenario would be GLBench showing that XXXX device has the best performance of any device when running a graphics heavy load, like a game, but in real life can't even give a smooth experience without stuttering or heavily dropped frames. No, that's not what's happening here, but would be a worst case scenario.



    I think I answered that somewhat in my reply above.
    I guess I see both sides of it, as I do understand where you are coming from. Maybe its time to change benchmarking. Would be nice to be able to set a profile ie "Real world" or "Every day" then a "Top Performance" or something idk, but I understand where you are coming from.
    Kevin OQuinn likes this.
    10-03-2013 11:21 AM
  6. iceman64's Avatar
    LG, HTC they all do this,

    http://www.phonearena.com/news/The-n...scores_id47914

    Posted via Android Central App
    10-03-2013 11:28 AM
  7. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    LG, HTC they all do this,

    The numbers always lie: HTC, LG, and Asus all found to boost benchmark scores

    Posted via Android Central App
    HERE's a much better link. They break it down pretty well IMO. Seems that they all do it to some degree except for Moto and nVidia. And Nexus doesn't, of course.
    Johnly likes this.
    10-03-2013 11:48 AM
  8. kidstechno's Avatar
    This is a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Benchmarks are very specific and not a representation of a device as a whole in any, way, shape, or form. It's pretty dumb but hey, when millions of dollars and subscribers are on the line, I'm sure those engineers felt some pressure one way or another.
    10-03-2013 11:56 AM
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