12-17-2014 11:51 AM
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  1. ace0187420's Avatar
    32 bit is dead technology for phones no point in buying a phone with it when the next batch will be 64 bit and somewhat future proof.
    09-06-2014 01:09 PM
  2. PsychDoc's Avatar
    Can someone explain -- nice and simply -- exactly what are the benefits of 64 bit vs.32 bit archetecture are from an end user's standpoint?

    Or is this something that's just of theoretical interest and pushing the boundaries just to push the boundaries...if you know what I mean. I'm not a gamer, I don't do a lot of complicated things on my smartphone. I just read articles on the internet, watch a few youtube vids, order stuff on Amazon occassionally, check stock portfolios and send and receive emails.

    So just what is 64 bit going to do for me?
    09-06-2014 03:47 PM
  3. stackberry369's Avatar
    Can someone explain -- nice and simply -- exactly what are the benefits of 64 bit vs.32 bit archetecture are from an end user's standpoint?

    Or is this something that's just of theoretical interest and pushing the boundaries just to push the boundaries...if you know what I mean. I'm not a gamer, I don't do a lot of complicated things on my smartphone. I just read articles on the internet, watch a few youtube vids, order stuff on Amazon occassionally, check stock portfolios and send and receive emails.

    So just what is 64 bit going to do for me?
    Cook your dinner? Have your babies maybe?

    Posted via Android Central App
    09-06-2014 04:41 PM
  4. meyerweb#CB's Avatar
    The Android L*Developer Preview*will provide developers with 32-bit system images to flash on the Nexus devices, with an additional emulator for 64-bit system images.
    And the final version of Android L will also run on both 32 and 64 bit systems.
    09-06-2014 04:42 PM
  5. Love Divine's Avatar
    What tangible benefit will the processor being 64-bit provide at this stage in the game? Can anybody here clamoring for one or "refusing to buy" the "not-future-proof" Note 4 because of that explain this to me?

    My guess is that this is just blatantly reactionary to Apple, as is most everything else in the Android space these days. The Gold color (now on everything) and finger print scanner were the first steps, and now the 64-bit. Honest question here (I've been out of the loop for a while) - was 64-bit something that was legitimately in the pipeline before the 5s? Or was fast-tracked asap? My understanding of Qualcomm's next gen SoCs is that it was pretty much fast-tracked.
    09-06-2014 05:14 PM
  6. ace0187420's Avatar
    And the final version of Android L will also run on both 32 and 64 bit systems.


    you think they are going to make 2 versions for the foreseeable future? The 64 bit one clearly doesn't run on 32 bit or you wouldn't need the emulator.
    09-06-2014 05:31 PM
  7. ace0187420's Avatar
    The truth: Qualcomm’s Snapdragon 805 is a chipset clinging onto a system architecture that is already in the grave and having dirt shovelled over its barely-moving limbs. You can bet next year’s*Samsung Galaxy S6*won’t have anything like this processor.
    09-06-2014 05:34 PM
  8. ace0187420's Avatar
    Future proofingLet’s take a step back, though. At the moment, having a 32-bit processor is no bad thing. There’s currently no intrinsic benefit to having an Android phone with a 64-bit chipset.*

    However, that won’t be the case for that much longer.*

    Android L is going to offer native support for 64-bit processors, and that involves a substantial re-working of the system so it can make use of what those CPUs pack. This isn’t a tweak, it’s groundwork for the future.*

    And we’re not going to see 64-bit chipsets reserved for elite phones either. Qualcomm has already revealed the Snapdragon 610 for mid-range phones, and the Snapdragon 410 for those closer to entry-level.*

    It won’t just be the*Galaxy S6*that’ll be looking down at the Note 4. It’ll be pretty much every new phone.

    So why doesn’t the Galaxy Note 4 have a 64-bit CPU? It’s a case of timing.*

    Samsung does not rely exclusively on its ‘own-brand’ Exynos line for top-tier devices like the Note 4, presumably because it doesn’t have the capacity to roll-out the tens of millions of units required. And while Qualcomm’s low-end and mid-range 64-bit chipsets are due out by the end of the year, the top dog Snapdragon 810 isn’t set to arrive until 2015.*

    In order to arrive this year, the Note 4 had to be sacrificed. And now it has Jack syndrome, doomed to be old before its time (RIP Robin Williams).

    32-bit vs 64-bitOf course, we haven’t yet explained why having a 64-bit processor is going to be important, only that soon just about every new phone will have one.

    So what’s the big deal? The main advancement offered by a 64-bit processor is that it exponentially increases the memory address space of a system. Apologies for using a techy term that seems about as impenetrable as a James Joyce novel with half the words missing (wouldn't that improve it? - Ed.), but it can be explained reasonably simply.*

    Address space refers to the total amount of physical memory that can be accessed by a CPU at once time. In a 32-bit system the total address space is around 4GB.*

    And that's the limit of any memory accessible, not just plain RAM. And that’s why we’ve more-or-less seen mobile phones hit a brick wall at 3GB – a 32-bit system cannot access more than this in one go. While the Snapdragon 805 has a special LPAE system in place that would allow 4GB to be used, the Note 4 is very much in 32-bit RAM territory.

    With a 64-bit system, this address space is raised from 4GB to theoretical maximum that ranges in exabytes (a billion gigabytes). There is no real ceiling with 64-bit.*

    64-bit processors also feature many more registers, which allows for much greater simultaneous crunching of data. Many might argue this is actually more important than the address space issue.*

    It’s this that is going to put an end to the trend of simply upping clock speeds in CPUs –*changes that have fairly little tangible benefit, and the reason why Android CPUs have barely progressed in the last year or so. CPU registers are where the actual data being worked on by the processor is stored, and more of them will allow a CPU to tackle more data simultaneously.*

    Benchmarks of the Exynos 5433, the processor used in the 64-bit version of the Galaxy Note 4, comfortably outperforms the Snapdragon 805 one already. And that’s without any real 64-bit optimisation in the Android system.*
    AnnDroid and ubigred like this.
    09-06-2014 05:36 PM
  9. meyerweb#CB's Avatar
    you think they are going to make 2 versions for the foreseeable future? The 64 bit one clearly doesn't run on 32 bit or you wouldn't need the emulator.
    At the time of Android L release there will probably only be two Android devices with 64 bit processors, the new Nexus and the HTC Desire something or other. Do you really think Google is going to ignore 99.9% of the phones and tablets out there? The Qualcomm 64 bit 808 and 810 chipsets aren't even shipping yet, so it's going to be a while before there are many 64 bit phones available.

    Unless Google wants to be criticized, laughed at, and generally abused in the media and among Android owners, they'll have to ship a version that runs on 32bit devices.
    09-06-2014 05:43 PM
  10. l3uddz's Avatar
    At the time of Android L release there will probably only be two Android devices with 64 bit processors, the new Nexus and the HTC Desire something or other. Do you really think Google is going to ignore 99.9% of the phones and tablets out there? The Qualcomm 64 bit 808 and 810 chipsets aren't even shipping yet, so it's going to be a while before there are many 64 bit phones available.

    Unless Google wants to be criticized, laughed at, and generally abused in the media and among Android owners, they'll have to ship a version that runs on 32bit devices.
    Apparantly the Exynos 5433 is 64bit, this is why I was curious as to whether we would be getting the Exynos or Snapdragon in the UK. Really hoping its the Exynos.
    09-06-2014 05:48 PM
  11. meyerweb#CB's Avatar

    [most of post snipped for brevity -- go up a few posts if you want to see what I'm replying to]

    Address space refers to the total amount of physical memory that can be accessed by a CPU at once time. In a 32-bit system the total address space is around 4GB.*

    With a 64-bit system, this address space is raised from 4GB to theoretical maximum that ranges in exabytes (a billion gigabytes). There is no real ceiling with 64-bit.*

    64-bit processors also feature many more registers, which allows for much greater simultaneous crunching of data. Many might argue this is actually more important than the address space issue.*

    It’s this that is going to put an end to the trend of simply upping clock speeds in CPUs –*changes that have fairly little tangible benefit, and the reason why Android CPUs have barely progressed in the last year or so. CPU registers are where the actual data being worked on by the processor is stored, and more of them will allow a CPU to tackle more data simultaneously.*
    While everything you say is true, I'm not certain how big an advantage it's going to be in the short term, the next year or two. (What follows is, of course, my opinion.)

    The only real advantage of more memory at the moment is the ability to multi-task more apps, and I think there's a limit to how many apps the typical user is going to need to have open. And that limit is pretty much met with 3GB devices. I don't think you'll see a big increase in the available RAM in the first generation of 64 bit phones. Most will still ship with no more than 3 GB, if only for cost reasons and battery consumption reasons. Eventually we'll see new apps that take advantage of more memory, but that will take a while.

    Even with multiple apps "running" in the background most Android apps don't really do much when they're not displayed. Run an app like System Panel, and you'll see most background apps are actually inactive. We're not doing big database updates in the background on Android phones, or downloading multiple large files while simultaneously viewing web pages in one window and editing a document in another. True background apps, like music players, don't use much memory or cpu at present.

    Few current apps do much multi-threading as it is. It's going to take quite a while for Android apps to be upgraded to really take advantage of 64 bit systems.

    I'm not convinced the better performance of the Exynos, compared to the Snapdragon, on current benchmarks has anything at all to do with it's 64 bit cores. More likely it's simply a better performing cpu, and the benchmarks take more advantage of the extra cores than normal apps do. The relationship between Antutu and real world us is questionable.

    In any case, I think by the time we really have applications and use cases that take advantage of 64 bit devices, we'll be replacing our Note 4s with a Note 5, or 6. I wouldn't let a 32 bit CPU keep me from buying any current phone.
    09-06-2014 06:00 PM
  12. mty msi's Avatar
    I thought the reason the Exynos octa-core chip wasn't used for the US version was because it wasn't 4G/LTE compatible.
    09-06-2014 06:23 PM
  13. ace0187420's Avatar
    While everything you say is true, I'm not certain how big an advantage it's going to be in the short term, the next year or two. (What follows is, of course, my opinion.)

    I'm not convinced the better performance of the Exynos, compared to the Snapdragon, on current benchmarks has anything at all to do with it's 64 bit cores. More likely it's simply a better performing cpu, and the benchmarks take more advantage of the extra cores than normal apps do. The relationship between Antutu and real world us is questionable.

    In any case, I think by the time we really have applications and use cases that take advantage of 64 bit devices, we'll be replacing our Note 4s with a Note 5, or 6. I wouldn't let a 32 bit CPU keep me from buying any current phone.

    If the gap is already substantial which it is imagine how much further it gets when it gets a OS that's 64 bit and optimized. I don't upgrade my phone every year usually do why would I buy a phone with so little future proofing? I know I'm only one buyer but I can't be the only one thinking like this. Do you think the developers are going to be spending much time trying to get their apps to run better on 32bit processors? I guessing 32 bit will be phased out quite quickly by developers and most of the new apps won't be compatible with the old architecture. The note 4 is barely a step up from the note 3 and if it wasn't for the screen nobody would be taking about it with excitement. But that is just my opinion.
    09-06-2014 06:39 PM
  14. meyerweb#CB's Avatar
    I think it will take a good two years before a large number of apps will really take advantage of 64 bit processors. And most of the people on forums like this one upgrade at least every two years. Many do it more frequently.That doesn't mean they won't be recompiled to support 64 bit; they certainly will. But that doesn't really change much. To really take advantage of the 64 bit architecture will require significant rewriting, not recompiling.

    And I seriously doubt many developers will stop supporting 32 bit architectures. To do so means writing off 90% of the potential market. That would be sheer idiocy on the part of anyone who wants to make money. "Let's see, I can write and compile my app to work with 100+ million 32 bit devices, or 5 million 64 bit devices. I'm going 64 bit all the way!" Not likely.

    But if you're convinced 64 bit will be a major advantage soon, then don't buy a new phone any time soon. It will be at least next Spring before you start to see high-end phones with 64 bit processors. The real truth, which few on these forums will admit, is that except for gaming even a 2 year old Galaxy S3, Note 2, or similar devices will do everything most people need. A Galaxy s5 doesn't really do much that a Galaxy S3 won't do. The urge to repeatedly upgrade has more to do with desire (and marketing), the 2-year contract cycle, and batteries that wear out (and cost absurd amounts to replace) than it does any real need for more power

    One of the VPs that I work with had an S3 until recently. He was perfectly satisfied with it, until it just wouldn't get through a work day on a charge. His two year commitment was up, so he replaced it with an S5. Without the subsidized pricing model, I bet he would have decided to just replace the battery rather than spending $500 on a new phone, especially if a genuine Samsung battery didn't cost an arm and a leg.

    In what other consume product area do we replace perfectly good devices every year or two just because it needs a new battery or other small part? Imagine buying a new lamp every time the bulb burns out.
    AnnDroid and ubigred like this.
    09-06-2014 07:30 PM
  15. ace0187420's Avatar
    I see your point and I have a note 2 and wanted to upgrade to a note 4 just don't see enough improvement in the device. Would rather have the first of the new hardware than the last of the old.
    09-06-2014 09:46 PM
  16. mty msi's Avatar
    I think it will take a good two years before a large number of apps will really take advantage of 64 bit processors. And most of the people on forums like this one upgrade at least every two years. Many do it more frequently.That doesn't mean they won't be recompiled to support 64 bit; they certainly will. But that doesn't really change much. To really take advantage of the 64 bit architecture will require significant rewriting, not recompiling.

    And I seriously doubt many developers will stop supporting 32 bit architectures. To do so means writing off 90% of the potential market. That would be sheer idiocy on the part of anyone who wants to make money. "Let's see, I can write and compile my app to work with 100+ million 32 bit devices, or 5 million 64 bit devices. I'm going 64 bit all the way!" Not likely.

    But if you're convinced 64 bit will be a major advantage soon, then don't buy a new phone any time soon. It will be at least next Spring before you start to see high-end phones with 64 bit processors. The real truth, which few on these forums will admit, is that except for gaming even a 2 year old Galaxy S3, Note 2, or similar devices will do everything most people need. A Galaxy s5 doesn't really do much that a Galaxy S3 won't do. The urge to repeatedly upgrade has more to do with desire (and marketing), the 2-year contract cycle, and batteries that wear out (and cost absurd amounts to replace) than it does any real need for more power

    One of the VPs that I work with had an S3 until recently. He was perfectly satisfied with it, until it just wouldn't get through a work day on a charge. His two year commitment was up, so he replaced it with an S5. Without the subsidized pricing model, I bet he would have decided to just replace the battery rather than spending $500 on a new phone, especially if a genuine Samsung battery didn't cost an arm and a leg.

    In what other consume product area do we replace perfectly good devices every year or two just because it needs a new battery or other small part? Imagine buying a new lamp every time the bulb burns out.
    I have an S3 and I don't know how anyone could get through a day without charging it unless they were using an extended battery.
    09-06-2014 10:01 PM
  17. Carrtman's Avatar
    My s3 gets me through a work day just but I admit it's dimmed down.

    As for 64 bit it'll take some time before we are really seeing the benefits of it, think about note 6 as the earliest. The s6 will have the 808 and Samsung might safe the 810 for the next note.

    Think about our desktops a lot of programs are still 32 bit and the difference is marginal at best.

    But yeah given the choice I would pick the 64 exynos just to be future proof.since I'm not keen on updating every 2 years
    09-07-2014 09:43 AM
  18. anon367353's Avatar
    Both Qualcomm and exynos are 32-bit. Exynos 5433 is wrongly mentioned in various forums as 64-bit, couldn't be more wrong.
    And another point being mentioned that Exynos not compatible with LTE. This is plain wrong, and misinformation. For example, Note 2 used Exynos 4412 with LTE. Exynos 5430 also has LTE-A with Intel's XMM 7260 modem.
    09-07-2014 02:46 PM
  19. ace0187420's Avatar
    Both Qualcomm and exynos are 32-bit. Exynos 5433 is wrongly mentioned in various forums as 64-bit, couldn't be more wrong.
    And another point being mentioned that Exynos not compatible with LTE. This is plain wrong, and misinformation. For example, Note 2 used Exynos 4412 with LTE. Exynos 5430 also has LTE-A with Intel's XMM 7260 modem.

    Where are you getting your information? I've looked everywhere and have yet to find any site or forum that says the exynos is 32 bit. It's all over the Internet not just on forum's that the exynos is 64 bit. So do you have some info that no one else does? It's 64 bit check your facts.
    09-08-2014 09:10 AM
  20. Mr. Toad's Avatar
    Both Qualcomm and exynos are 32-bit. Exynos 5433 is wrongly mentioned in various forums as 64-bit, couldn't be more wrong.
    And another point being mentioned that Exynos not compatible with LTE. This is plain wrong, and misinformation. For example, Note 2 used Exynos 4412 with LTE. Exynos 5430 also has LTE-A with Intel's XMM 7260 modem.
    According to GSM Arena and Rootzwiki the exynos 5433 is 64 bit and made with ARM Cortex 57 and ARM Cortex 53 cores. According to ARM these are both 64 bit processors.

    That being said I still have no problem getting the Note 4 with a 805. Although I am tempted by the new Moto X.
    09-08-2014 10:11 AM
  21. anon367353's Avatar
    Where are you getting your information? I've looked everywhere and have yet to find any site or forum that says the exynos is 32 bit. It's all over the Internet not just on forum's that the exynos is 64 bit. So do you have some info that no one else does? It's 64 bit check your facts.
    Do you have any proof that Exynos 5433 is 64-bit other than leaked AnTuTu benchmark??
    AnTuTu database is filled manually by hand. That by itself is not a proof.

    One of the biggest Exynos developers AndreiLux (developer of Perseus kernel) has already mentioned this many times in past, for months infact. He is the best known dev in the Exynos field and a very well-connected source for Samsung related news.

    - Exynos 3xxx are used for A7/A8 SOC
    - Exynos 4xxx was based on A9-type
    - Exynos 5xxx all based on A15-class

    So why suddenly Exynos 5433 will be based on A57?

    Any A57-class Exynos device will have a new series number like 6xxx. It's so obvious.

    1st digit shows the generation of device, 2nd digit usually shows the number of 'major' cores. Like 5250 has 2 cores, or 5430 has 4 cores (ignoring low power A7 cores).
    09-08-2014 10:14 AM
  22. Mr. Toad's Avatar

    Do you have any proof that Exynos 5433 is 64-bit other than leaked AnTuTu benchmark??
    AnTuTu database is filled manually by hand. That by itself is not a proof.

    One of the biggest Exynos developers AndreiLux (developer of Perseus kernel) has already mentioned this many times in past, for months infact. He is the best known dev in the Exynos field and a very well-connected source for Samsung related news.

    - Exynos 3xxx are used for A7/A8 SOC
    - Exynos 4xxx was based on A9-type
    - Exynos 5xxx all based on A15-class

    So why suddenly Exynos 5433 will be based on A57?

    Any A57-class Exynos device will have a new series number like 6xxx. It's so obvious.

    1st digit shows the generation of device, 2nd digit usually shows the number of 'major' cores. Like 5250 has 2 cores, or 5430 has 4 cores (ignoring low power A7 cores).
    That makes sense. You would expect a bigger leap in the model number of They switched architecture.
    09-08-2014 11:13 AM
  23. ace0187420's Avatar

    Do you have any proof that Exynos 5433 is 64-bit other than leaked AnTuTu benchmark??
    AnTuTu database is filled manually by hand. That by itself is not a proof.

    One of the biggest Exynos developers AndreiLux (developer of Perseus kernel) has already mentioned this many times in past, for months infact. He is the best known dev in the Exynos field and a very well-connected source for Samsung related news.

    - Exynos 3xxx are used for A7/A8 SOC
    - Exynos 4xxx was based on A9-type
    - Exynos 5xxx all based on A15-class

    So why suddenly Exynos 5433 will be based on A57?

    Any A57-class Exynos device will have a new series number like 6xxx. It's so obvious.

    1st digit shows the generation of device, 2nd digit usually shows the number of 'major' cores. Like 5250 has 2 cores, or 5430 has 4 cores (ignoring low power A7 cores).

    How come every single site says it's 64 bit I can't even find one that says it's 32 bit and you done nothing to prove it's 32 bit other than say it is? You got anything other than your opinion?
    09-08-2014 01:53 PM
  24. Jdane07's Avatar
    I get a new phone every 2-4 months, so I'm not too worried about "future-proofing". Lol

    Posted via the Android Central App
    09-08-2014 02:04 PM
  25. stackberry369's Avatar
    I get a new phone every 2-4 months, so I'm not too worried about "future-proofing". Lol

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Not everyone can be Donald Trump

    Posted via Android Central App
    09-08-2014 02:12 PM
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