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  1. Almeuit's Avatar
    And what percentage of overall Samsung Galaxy users voted are reflected by Android Central regulars who vote in polls? If you're reading this, you're already a percentage of a percentage. Even more so if you're actually posting. So yeah... vocal minority for sure. Maybe not unnoticeable because it's vocal group, but nowhere near loud enough to alter design plans that will probably contribute more to the bottom line.
    True but we can only go on what is out there -- such as going off what that poll says. We can't ask every single Samsung user... that just isn't a realistic possibility for us.
    monsieurms and 21stNow like this.
    08-21-2015 05:32 PM
  2. L_E_O's Avatar
    Agreed on Note 1 to Note 2. I just think since then, the reaction has been a mixed bag. You can go back and look at these very forums to see all the "meh", "unimpressed" and "solid, but not enough to leave my Note X" comments. This year seems no different, and I think it's more reflective of the maturity of these devices than Samsung and other companies dropping the ball. I'm not a Samsung fanboy by any stretch, but at least they're swinging the bat annually (here's looking at you HTC).

    I think I'd argue this year's jump... net positive... is bigger than last year's. Note 3 to Note 4 was what... camera, screen & metal frame?
    08-21-2015 05:43 PM
  3. L_E_O's Avatar
    True but we can only go on what is out there -- such as going off what that poll says. We can't ask every single Samsung user... that just isn't a realistic possibility for us.
    Agreed. So if you're Samsung, you polled to see if your new design philosophy is going to significantly impact your user base and got these results, 20% would be enough for you to alter your course? I could pretty easily talk myself into thinking that half of that group only cares about one or the other, and a few more would be cool with the benefits and acceptable alternatives (fast and/or wireless charging, cloud/offline storage, etc.) once they truly got over the missing options.

    It's this notion that they've somehow alienated their "core" user base that gets me. I "polled" 6 people waiting in line to get their preorders with me this morning. 5 of them were women, and 4 of them freely admitted they don't even use the S-Pen (2 didn't even know what I meant until I said "stylus". They wanted a "Galaxy" with a big screen a great camera. Random, small sampling for sure, but it's likely closer in reflecting the majority. Time will tell.
    08-21-2015 06:10 PM
  4. Frozen Corpse's Avatar
    How much improvement is there in regards to the N4 vs. N5?
    08-21-2015 07:26 PM
  5. Frozen Corpse's Avatar
    Mostly agreed. After using it since around 9 AM, I'd even have to begrudgingly concede the vaunted Touchwiz improvements. There are these types of subtle things that just won't ever show up in a review. Those 2-3 mm in width? For me at least, it just so happens to be the difference needed for one-handed usage. The finger print reader? Sure... the Note 4 has it, and it's 'OK'. The one on the 5? It's straight money. It has literally worked every time I've tried it today, not to mention it's faster and easier to use. There are other little usability tweaks that I just stumble across through using the phone.

    The point is that it's not just the list of features that the 5 has that the 4 didn't. It's also the totality of all the features they both have that the Note 5 just seems to do better and get right. To me, even minus the 2-3 they removed, the rest adds up to "upgrade please".

    P.S. Not trolling here, but the Note series has almost always been a "meh... faster, stronger, slightly better xyz" upgrade year-to-year, right?
    IMO, I saw a substantial difference between the Note 3 and 4.
    rushmore and L_E_O like this.
    08-21-2015 07:29 PM
  6. RexdaleNap's Avatar
    No sd card is dealbraker for me I went from note 3 to this & got double battery life: http://crackberry.com/sites/crackber...?itok=zkNIJ7qg

    & for firs time in 4 years after 1 year I don't want to switch only phone that interests me is this one:

    (Silver Edition)

    Js. Let's wait for Note 6 then,
    A895 likes this.
    08-21-2015 08:01 PM
  7. mavrrick's Avatar
    It's this notion that they've somehow alienated their "core" user base that gets me. I "polled" 6 people waiting in line to get their preorders with me this morning. 5 of them were women, and 4 of them freely admitted they don't even use the S-Pen (2 didn't even know what I meant until I said "stylus". They wanted a "Galaxy" with a big screen a great camera. Random, small sampling for sure, but it's likely closer in reflecting the majority. Time will tell.
    This is actually the core of the problem for allot of the power users of the Note line. Samsung did a great job creating a product on the edge with the note line that can do everything you through at it. They pushed the size envelope with the first two Notes. Because they were the best across the board then allot of people bought them for reasons that have nothing to do with what the note is really about. Because it had such popularity because of size rather then its distinguishing S-Pen stats for it are all screwed up. I have a feeling if there was a way to distinguish users that use the Note as a note and not just a large phone allot of them may change. This may sound elitist but I really wish if folks didn't care about the s-pen they just get the s6 edge plus. I really feel that is designed for just those users.
    L_E_O likes this.
    08-21-2015 08:22 PM
  8. rushmore's Avatar
    I had the 4 and 5 next to each other a bit ago, thr 5 looked much better.
    I was in Best Buy again today (bought Ex Machina on Blu-ray - good movie) and still can not tell a difference with pictures, video or web pages 1440p with ultra dark contrast on both equals them out for me. If you go into settings and set the displays the same they look the same to me. Funny, I am typing this on a 32" HP 1440p monitor right now and 5 and 5.7" devices are 1440p and I find the 32" monitor to look GREAT Were it not for VR headsets, I would still find 1440p a waste of resources on a portable device.
    08-21-2015 08:46 PM
  9. L_E_O's Avatar
    IMO, I saw a substantial difference between the Note 3 and 4.
    I did too, and I upgraded accordingly. I'm just saying that there was a similar split on the upgrade value the last 2 years. Sure, the sides weren't as polarized, but it still seemed similarly split.
    CehowardNote7 likes this.
    08-21-2015 09:14 PM
  10. tadpoles's Avatar
    The poll on AC yesterday had 8% of respondents saying removable batteries were their single most important feature; and 11% saying SD cards. You could only vote for one, so I presume that's separate groups of unique users. That latter category (SD) garnered 676 votes at that time. (I forget what the battery was). That says nearly 1 in 5 has as their most important feature something Sammy just ditched. Those are minorities--but combined or individually they are hardly insignificant or unnoticeable in a crowded marketplace.
    I don't think AC is a good sampling of the average user though. Perhaps more tech-enthusiastic than the average.

    from my old nexus 5
    08-21-2015 09:15 PM
  11. L_E_O's Avatar
    Good points, and agreed. I'm just careful about what I call a power user these days. We come in all shapes in sizes, and all aren't impacted by these feature trade-offs. I'm still not sure what you used to be able to do on the Note 2 - 4 that you can't on the 5? The IR Blaster? Maybe you have to do less of something. Maybe you have to charge for 30 minutes or on the run with an external battery. But what can you throw at it that it can't handle?

    Some people are talking about the incremental difference between battery and storage like they took the S-Pen out of the Note. To me, that was always the core feature. It came later in the year than the S line, so it tended to have a spec bump from the S, but for the most part, the Note at its core was always what it is today: A larger, more powerful Galaxy S with a unique S-Pen and software features to support it.
    08-21-2015 09:23 PM
  12. mavrrick's Avatar
    But what can you throw at it that it can't handle?
    Because of thr removal of the SD card it can't handle syncing movies from plex under my use case.

    When I visit my folks I have frequently synced content to my phone to play through there chromecast and for my daughter. All of the content is fairly high quality since it will likely be played on a large TV. If I am gone for days several titles are required for my daughter so she doesn't have to watch the same thing over and over. Streaming doesn't work because generally speaking they have minimal bandwidth needs. My daughter and I along with there normal usage is more then their connection is good for. I have been known to sync new content over night if we find something I didn't bring that we want to enjoy.

    Aldo when I play from my phone to the CC it is generally higher quality since their bandwidth is limited.

    I know this doesn't effect everyone, but it does effect some. That is my use case for it.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    08-21-2015 10:03 PM
  13. Dieu Le Quang's Avatar
    I passed on the S6 after waiting very patiently and looks like I'm going to pass on the Note 5. Not only non removable batteries... smaller ones at that.

    Nice going marketing team at Samsung... seven straight quarters of declining profits in smartphones.
    A895, Dr Claw and CehowardNote7 like this.
    08-21-2015 10:11 PM
  14. monsieurms's Avatar
    A. Random, small sampling for sure, but it's likely closer in reflecting the majority. Time will tell.
    Well, in polling it is certainly important to define's one universe and sample correctly, but surely yours is all too random and small as a sampling, as you seem to realize.

    But in discussing the AC poll, there are a few things that might give it more credibility. First, even if you cut the AC poll numbers in half and say it is only 1 user in 10 who cares instead of 1 in 5, it's still a significant number. We can concede the tech-bias point, but that doesn't wholly eliminate the significance of the numbers. Give a big discount--it's STILL significant.

    Second, remember, too, that the AC poll--since you're critiquing it only in one direction--only let you choose ONE option. Meaning, just because someone didn't vote for Sd cards as their #1 feature, doesn't mean it's unimportant and won't affect their buying decision. I don't know about you, but I have THREE deal-breaker issues (screen size, batteries and sd cards). I could only vote for one. So, this may pump the numbers back up to some extent the other way. Just because someone voted for camera as their #1 doesn't mean they'll buy a device with no SD, in other words.

    Third, and in that regard, if there is a tech-geek bias here, it is also true, a point I made earlier, that Note users are also not reflective of "the majority" or the "norm." They have a disproportionate tech-geek bias themselves. That certainly may not be the WHOLE group, but no one here was ever claiming it was a majority. BUT a lot of them (us) are here right now because they are power users and because of features SAMSUNG told us were important. A lot of people who didn't care about such things--they are Apple users.

    SO, yes, there is a pretty good argument (and some useful facts now) that they've alienated a significant part of the core by abandoning part of what made Samsung Samsung to us. I personally would put it more around 10-15%. But we're just not going to get a final answer until the Note 6 comes out and has the same lack of features. A lot of "4" users have 2 year upgrade paths. If this is what the "6" looks like, I bet a chunk of them will wind up being LG users (or whatever).
    21stNow likes this.
    08-22-2015 07:18 AM
  15. A895's Avatar
    No sd card is dealbraker for me I went from note 3 to this & got double battery life: http://crackberry.com/sites/crackber...?itok=zkNIJ7qg

    & for firs time in 4 years after 1 year I don't want to switch only phone that interests me is this one:

    (Silver Edition)

    Js. Let's wait for Note 6 then,
    That phone is pretty. I have been thinking on moving to Blackberry too. Ever since I have been on Windows Phone, while nice has changed my perspective on phones. I realized I am a low demand user, I only use Instagram and Yikyak (College student), and office, xbox smartglass, and here maps is on every platform. Other than that I web browse a lot and use email all the time, and Blackberry is fine for those things. We'll see though. I still want to be on Verizon though.
    08-22-2015 08:40 AM
  16. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Ok, the SD card and battery WERE a deal breaker for me, until I got the S6 Edge.

    People don't like change and many times the problem is people simply don't like change, not that there is an actual problem.

    Every new phone and upgrade, there are people that don't like it. While I'm not saying this phone is for everyone or every Note 4 users, sometimes the answer is not the changes are worse, but it is just different than what you are used to.

    The no SD card and sealed battery are easy to adapt to. I have never had a phone without an SD card, way back since tiny Nokia phones. Adapting to saving things on the cloud rather than the card is much easier than many think. People do this all the time and have been doing this for a long time.

    Instead of having my wallpapers and ringtones on a card and just switching out the card, they are on the cloud and I put the ones I want on my phone. It isn't worse, it is just different than what I have always done.

    The battery was tested long before this phone came out and the phone has been shown to use the battery better. That is one of the big things with sealed batteries, they have been shown to last longer that those that are switched out. A local Samsung rep told me that a long time ago, seems it is true.

    Also what I have seen is people that actually have the phone have been talking about how things are working well, and they are getting run over by people that don't have the phone or want it, talking about how bad it is.

    Sure I would prefer an SD card, but have found the change is very adaptable. Sure I would like to change out my battery, which I have done maybe once or twice in many years, with every phone I have had. Instead of carrying a extra battery, I'll carry an external battery that is fast charging and will charge the phone quickly. Again, not worse, just different. Instead of carrying a battery, I carry something small I can very quickly recharge with if I need to. I can do that in 10 minutes while in the car, sitting in a meeting or sitting at my desk or anything else. It really isn't different than carrying a spare battery.

    Some people will never change until all the high end phones have sealed batteries and no SD cards and that is where we are headed. Some don't want to get the phone, fine, but some need to realize that things aren't always as you think, especially if you haven't used it all all.
    08-22-2015 11:22 AM
  17. mavrrick's Avatar
    The battery has several ways that can be worked around. External batteries, wireless charging top offs, performance tweaks, many other options. If you can setup your environment to allow the phone to charge everytime it is put down it will always be topped off

    But the SD card or more accurately lack of capacity isn't easily worked around. I would love it for someone to actually provide a valid alternative that works as well as a SD Card. Stating use the cloud isn't a answer since wifi isn't avaliable all places and most places it is the quality and bandwidth avaliable are insufficient for the video steaming I use the extra capacity for.

    This though is my use case so it doesn't apply to all people. I suspect it does apply to most people though that are concerned about SD Card.

    I would love for someone to actually present a valid alternative for my use case. But it seems everyone just wants to say use the cloud and ignore the fact they are repeatedly told the cloud isn't the solution.

    As of now the only alternative I have come up with is to use another portable device for those streaming situations.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Dr Claw, L_E_O and monsieurms like this.
    08-22-2015 01:23 PM
  18. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    How much stuff do you store on your phone that you need every day?
    08-22-2015 01:24 PM
  19. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Also as far as charging issues, there are cases that charge that are made. Solves the charging issue.
    08-22-2015 01:27 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    Ok, the SD card and battery WERE a deal breaker for me, until I got the S6 Edge.

    People don't like change and many times the problem is people simply don't like change, not that there is an actual problem.

    Every new phone and upgrade, there are people that don't like it. While I'm not saying this phone is for everyone or every Note 4 users, sometimes the answer is not the changes are worse, but it is just different than what you are used to.

    The no SD card and sealed battery are easy to adapt to. I have never had a phone without an SD card, way back since tiny Nokia phones. Adapting to saving things on the cloud rather than the card is much easier than many think. People do this all the time and have been doing this for a long time.

    Instead of having my wallpapers and ringtones on a card and just switching out the card, they are on the cloud and I put the ones I want on my phone. It isn't worse, it is just different than what I have always done.

    The battery was tested long before this phone came out and the phone has been shown to use the battery better. That is one of the big things with sealed batteries, they have been shown to last longer that those that are switched out. A local Samsung rep told me that a long time ago, seems it is true.

    Also what I have seen is people that actually have the phone have been talking about how things are working well, and they are getting run over by people that don't have the phone or want it, talking about how bad it is.

    Sure I would prefer an SD card, but have found the change is very adaptable. Sure I would like to change out my battery, which I have done maybe once or twice in many years, with every phone I have had. Instead of carrying a extra battery, I'll carry an external battery that is fast charging and will charge the phone quickly. Again, not worse, just different. Instead of carrying a battery, I carry something small I can very quickly recharge with if I need to. I can do that in 10 minutes while in the car, sitting in a meeting or sitting at my desk or anything else. It really isn't different than carrying a spare battery.

    Some people will never change until all the high end phones have sealed batteries and no SD cards and that is where we are headed. Some don't want to get the phone, fine, but some need to realize that things aren't always as you think, especially if you haven't used it all all.
    Actually, I was there before. I owned a Moto X (2013) no external storage or removable battery. While fine, it had several drawbacks that bummed me out. With no external storage, using the cloud storage became more important than ever before and that was annoying. Wanted to do a reset? Sure great, but I missed out on some important pics and other things that weren't backed up correctly or were lost.

    And storage, done get me started, because everything is internal storage, all your vids, pics, movies, apps etc. All occupied the same space. Having internet storage literally made me not want to have any of my stuff on it in fear of losing it or using up too much space.

    Removable battery is debatable, I see the benefits of having it. But the option to have it is better than not to. I did see a benefit today where my Lancet froze and doing a soft reset wasn't working, so I was able to pull the battery. Otherwise I have no idea what would have happened.

    That's the thing though. It sucks choice is being taken away nowadays. That has been and always will be Androids strength of which is choice. But when it comes to hardware with Android there is so many compromises nowadays. If I'm going to go no external storage or removable battery, I'm going iPhone. At least I get guaranteed updates and less hardware related headaches.

    There was an article I read today on /r/Android about how the way manufacturers are acting lately moving to iOS seems more reasonable especially since the feature gap between the two is shrinking every year.

    But this is my opinion. I don't know if I'll come back to Android. The update situation still worries me, as you have to choose the right phone or else your phone is outdated in a year. Blackberry s ems promising if they get something on Verizon and I am interested where W10 goes. The iPhone 6S seems like a good bet too.

    But Samsung is definitely dropping the ball lately. Hope they don't alienate too much of their fanbase.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    08-22-2015 01:30 PM
  21. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Everything backs up automatically. Google Photo can back up immediately or when you connect to WiFi.
    08-22-2015 01:39 PM
  22. monsieurms's Avatar
    How much stuff do you store on your phone that you need every day?
    That misses the point. Perhaps that point makes sense if your usage patterns are different. Some have other usage patterns. For me...Having 20 albums, for instance, in internal memory and changing them every three weeks and always looking for the one that's not there would not be an acceptable alternative. I like most of my library with me because it provides choices. Not constantly reloading things. Not relying on streaming. Not missing what I want because I forgot it.

    To be sure, all these things are 1st world problems. We don't need any of this stuff. That, too, misses the point. When we buy pricey high-end phones, though, we expect to get some frills and things, things that make life easy and better and more interesting, not harder, duller and more complicated. More choices--good. Less choices--bad. $700+ on a phone--I should have choices.

    Also as far as charging issues, there are cases that charge that are made. Solves the charging issue.
    Yes, there are a zillion workarounds. Which doesn't always mean they are good ones, fast ones, cheap ones or simple one. This one "solves" it by eliminating most choices for cases, for just one instance. Really, no solution is more elegant, faster or easier to apply than a new battery. That's why it's a preferred solution by many.
    08-22-2015 02:19 PM
  23. L_E_O's Avatar
    Actually, I was there before. I owned a Moto X (2013) no external storage or removable battery. While fine, it had several drawbacks that bummed me out. With no external storage, using the cloud storage became more important than ever before and that was annoying. Wanted to do a reset? Sure great, but I missed out on some important pics and other things that weren't backed up correctly or were lost.

    And storage, done get me started, because everything is internal storage, all your vids, pics, movies, apps etc. All occupied the same space. Having internet storage literally made me not want to have any of my stuff on it in fear of losing it or using up too much space.

    Removable battery is debatable, I see the benefits of having it. But the option to have it is better than not to. I did see a benefit today where my Lancet froze and doing a soft reset wasn't working, so I was able to pull the battery. Otherwise I have no idea what would have happened.

    That's the thing though. It sucks choice is being taken away nowadays. That has been and always will be Androids strength of which is choice. But when it comes to hardware with Android there is so many compromises nowadays. If I'm going to go no external storage or removable battery, I'm going iPhone. At least I get guaranteed updates and less hardware related headaches.

    There was an article I read today on /r/Android about how the way manufacturers are acting lately moving to iOS seems more reasonable especially since the feature gap between the two is shrinking every year.

    But this is my opinion. I don't know if I'll come back to Android. The update situation still worries me, as you have to choose the right phone or else your phone is outdated in a year. Blackberry s ems promising if they get something on Verizon and I am interested where W10 goes. The iPhone 6S seems like a good bet too.

    But Samsung is definitely dropping the ball lately. Hope they don't alienate too much of their fanbase.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    I really do respect everyone's opinion here, but stuff like Samsung is "alienating their core audience" and "dropping the ball" is simply just not true. They may have removed a few features that you and others (including me) have used in the past, but the evolution here is net positive for most folks, including lots of power users. I bought spare batteries for every Note up until the Note 4. Fast charging and the evolution of portable external chargers made a spare irrelevant to me. I'd rather spend that $20-40 on a portable charger than can do more than just pop in my specific phone... it can charge all my crap. Same with photos and cloud/offline storage. There are several apps that will automatically offload pics/videos to personal offline or cloud storage the second you're on your WiFi network and charging. I just don't have a need to have 10s of GBs of pics or vids in my pocket, and if I need one in particular that badly, you can stream it on the spot.

    It's just really dramatic to somehow say these two things have "ruined" a device this great. To each their own, but if you haven't already, I'd really encourage you to go pick one up, behold this beast, and then think about the alternatives to doing things the way you were. You might find that you can compromise after all.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
    debdroid1a, DX9, Deliximus and 2 others like this.
    08-22-2015 02:25 PM
  24. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Well, yes, it solves it if you want to keep downgrading the choices. You just eliminated most choices for cases, for instance. Really, no solution is more elegant, faster or easier to apply than a new battery.
    😐

    No it doesn't downgrade choices. I know people that have charging cases and only put them on when their battery is low and/or they know they are away from being able to charge.

    As far as having everything on your phone that you might think about listening to or watching..it is beyond first world problems.
    debdroid1a likes this.
    08-22-2015 02:28 PM
  25. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    I really do respect everyone's opinion here, but stuff like Samsung is "alienating their core audience" and "dropping the ball" is simply just not true. They may have removed a few features that you and others (including me) have used in the past, but the evolution here is net positive for most folks, including lots of power users. I bought spare batteries for every Note up until the Note 4. Fast charging and the evolution of portable external chargers made a spare irrelevant to me. I'd rather spend that $20-40 on a portable charger than can do more than just pop in my specific phone... it can charge all my crap. Same with photos and cloud/offline storage. There are several apps that will automatically offload pics/videos to personal offline or cloud storage the second you're on your WiFi network and charging. I just don't have a need to have 10s of GBs of pics or vids in my pocket, and if I need one in particular that badly, you can stream it on the spot.

    It's just really dramatic to somehow say these two things have "ruined" a device this great. To each their own, but if you haven't already, I'd really encourage you to go pick one up, behold this beast, and then think about the alternatives to doing things the way you were. You might find that you can compromise after all.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
    BINGO!
    Deliximus and L_E_O like this.
    08-22-2015 02:38 PM
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