08-21-2015 02:00 PM
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  1. getbretweir's Avatar
    I think what would really make an impact is a lower price-tag.

    They've been in decline before the Note 4 came out, so I highly doubt that their decision to remove an SD card slot made a big difference, though it is a possible factor.
    I agree with you, but I think you might be slightly misinterpreting the OP's point. Maybe I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but I don't think he's suggesting that removing the SD card, or any single feature, is the only reason for Samsung's sales recently declining.

    I think his main point was, like you suggested, that you can buy a similar phone for a lot less, and the premium market in general is one that's losing market share. had they kept some of their features that differentiated them, combined with what you said, lowering their prices a bit to avoid that declining high end market, it's possible they might've appealed to a larger customer base.

    of course, it's also possible had they not made the dramatic shift they did, that they'd generate less revenue had they kept things similar and offered a more competitive price.

    it'll be impossible to prove either theory so there's no right or wrong answer, but it's a possibility and I'm sure one that Samsung thoroughly explored before making their design change.
    08-16-2015 09:45 PM
  2. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    excellent points. I think you nailed it. they'll sell a ton of phones, and they'll make billions of dollars, but like you said, they're falling short of expectations for a lot of reasons.

    The general public, as you pointed out, doesn't see the need to upgrade every year with such minimal upgrades from year to year. A lot of "us" don't either. Verizon's new pricing structure, along with phones like the Moto X and their distribution strategy, are also a big factor.

    I won't repeat what you said, you pretty much summed it up perfectly, but I will say I wish Samsung well and hope anyone that bought one in 2015 is happy. personally though, I'm one of those people you mentioned. I'll hold onto my next phone for 36 months, and I'm not spending $600+ on a phone. The Pure and probably Nexus are more than capable and satisfy all my needs.
    Phones like the Moto X Pure you mentioned and Zenfone 2 ZE551ML 64GB are why I think Samsung may not see record sales anytime soon.

    Phones that pack in flagship punch for a very reasonable price. They make the Galaxy S6 look overpriced by comparison.

    IMO, the wooden Moto X Pure looks better than the S6. My personal opinion, however.

    I may throw in the OnePlus Two in the list, but the fact that it still requires an invite is a no-go for me.

    But with all these phones coming out, we should see the days of the $600 Android flagship coming to an end.
    musique101 likes this.
    08-16-2015 09:46 PM
  3. getbretweir's Avatar
    Let's not forget phones like the Moto X Pure and Zenfone 2 ZE551ML 64GB.

    Phones that pack in flagship punch for a very reasonable price. They make the Galaxy S6 look overpriced by comparison.

    IMO, the wooden Moto X Pure looks better than the S6. My personal opinion, however.

    I may throw in the OnePlus Two in the list, but the fact that it still requires an invite is a no-go for me.
    I totally agree ... the OP also pointed out that there are many phones with high end specs, mostly the ones you mentioned, that are half the price. that's really what I got out from reading his post and what I agree with.

    take me for example. Samsung user for 3 years (also own a Nexus 4). I was getting the S6 Edge. I mean, it was mine .... until I heard about the battery life and issues with LP. That gave the G4 just enough time for me to wait it out. Liked the G4, but hate the software. I've long been a fan of the Moto X, already had my S4 for almost 3 years, so what's another few months. Enter the Pure. Has almost every feature I'm after for a reasonable price.

    I need 2 phones so I'll grab a Nexus, but that proves both your point, as well as part of what the OP said. My philosophy has changed. I now have so many more options to buy great phones at reasonable prices. I'm not shelling out $700 for any phone, I want an unlocked, unbranded, bloat free phone with most of the specs I want for a reasonable price. and I'll be keeping it for 3 years must likely. that wasn't an option before, today it is, and I think that's the main reason Samsung isn't experiencing the same sales.

    Apple's advantage is they have no competition for iOS. people love the ecosystem, but if there were 10 other phones that has iOS, that'd change pretty quick. just like if Samsung was the only OEM that offered Android. They'd make $2 billion a week, at least.
    D13H4RD2L1V3 and MikeX74 like this.
    08-16-2015 10:04 PM
  4. PapaGary's Avatar
    This may be part of it:

    08-16-2015 10:09 PM
  5. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    I totally agree ... the OP also pointed out that there are many phones with high end specs, mostly the ones you mentioned, that are half the price. that's really what I got out from reading his post and what I agree with.

    take me for example. Samsung user for 3 years (also own a Nexus 4). I was getting the S6 Edge. I mean, it was mine .... until I heard about the battery life and issues with LP. That gave the G4 just enough time for me to wait it out. Liked the G4, but hate the software. I've long been a fan of the Moto X, already had my S4 for almost 3 years, so what's another few months. Enter the Pure. Has almost every feature I'm after for a reasonable price.

    I need 2 phones so I'll grab a Nexus, but that proves both your point, as well as part of what the OP said. My philosophy has changed. I now have so many more options to buy great phones at reasonable prices. I'm not shelling out $700 for any phone, I want an unlocked, unbranded, bloat free phone with most of the specs I want for a reasonable price. and I'll be keeping it for 3 years must likely. that wasn't an option before, today it is, and I think that's the main reason Samsung isn't experiencing the same sales.

    Apple's advantage is they have no competition for iOS. people live the ecosystem, but if there were 10 other phones that has iOS, that'd change pretty quick. just like if Samsung was the only OEM that offered Android. They'd make a 2 billion dollars a week, at least.
    Totally agree. I love my G4 so much, but it'll probably be the last phone that costs $600+ that I'll own.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think Apple can charge $600+ for an iPhone for much longer if Android phones drop in price. They can't rely on their Die-hard fans for much longer IMHO.
    08-16-2015 10:14 PM
  6. getbretweir's Avatar
    Totally agree. I love my G4 so much, but it'll probably be the last phone that costs $600+ that I'll own.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think Apple can charge $600+ for an iPhone for much longer if Android phones drop in price. They can't rely on their Die-hard fans for much longer IMHO.
    it'll be interesting to see how Apple evolves over the next few years. I knew (and put my money where my mouth is) that the iPhone 6 was gonna be huge. it's a major upgrade and the larger display plus fingerprint sensor made them billions. I also new they'd be in trouble after that. I don't think their biggest threat comes from Android, I think their biggest threat comes from themselves.

    They're absolutely brilliant at brand loyalty and customer retention, probably better than any company other than the NFL (I live in the US). They're customers have grown accustomed to two year upgrades, and they offer such slight upgrades that they make sure every two years something significant, some must have feature will appear. The 6 was huge cause a lot of people didn't wait a year, and the people that were going on 3 years with their iPhone took the bait.

    now it's back to that cycle, but the problem is there's not any new technology that's gonna be a game changer, certainty not USB-C or for them, wireless charging. they already made the larger display. what else is there? the only thing I can see is front speakers, and huge improvement to micro audio (been reading about it ... it's amazing) maybe WiFi charging but even that won't rival the 6.

    so back to my original point, the reason their biggest threat doesn't come from Android, but themselves, is that there's not a big enough reason to upgrade every 2 years. idk if you live in the US, but Verizon recently did away with subsidized phones, so that'll have an affect as well. it's basically the same thing with android, the same thing that happened to TVs, desktops, laptops, tablets and now phones.

    So removable battery, plastic, glass, price, storage ... doesn't matter. Things eventually plateau and we're almost at that point.
    D13H4RD2L1V3 likes this.
    08-16-2015 10:35 PM
  7. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    it'll be interesting to see how Apple evolves over the next few years. I knew (and put my money where my mouth is) that the iPhone 6 was gonna be huge. it's a major upgrade and the larger display plus fingerprint sensor made them billions. I also new they'd be in trouble after that. I don't think their biggest threat comes from Android, I think their biggest threat comes from themselves.

    They're absolutely brilliant at brand loyalty and customer retention, probably better than any company other than the NFL (I live in the US). They're customers have grown accustomed to two year upgrades, and they offer such slight upgrades that they make sure every two years something significant, some must have feature will appear. The 6 was huge cause a lot of people didn't wait a year, and the people that were going on 3 years with their iPhone took the bait.

    now it's back to that cycle, but the problem is there's not any new technology that's be a have changer, certainty not USB-C or for them, wireless charging. they already made the larger display. what else is there? the only thing I can see is front speakers, and huge improvement to micro audio (been reading about it ... it's amazing) maybe WiFi charging but even that won't rival the 6.

    so back to my original point, the reason their biggest threat doesn't come from Android, but themselves, is that there's not a big enough reason to upgrade every 2 years. idk if you live in the US, but Verizon recently did away with subsidized phones, so that'll have an affect as well. it's basically the same thing with android, the same thing that happened to TVs, desktops, laptops, tablets and now phones.

    So removable battery, plastic, glass, price, storage ... doesn't matter. Things eventually plateau and we're almost at that point.
    Agreed.

    I think we can all agree that phones are already more than already good enough and that there's little reason to upgrade unless there's a smartphone game-changing breakthrough.

    And yes, I've heard that Verizon has got rid of subsidized phones. That means we have to pay the full MSRP for the phone, either outright or through installments. It's a pretty big change and undoubtedly one that will influence the future price of phones.
    08-16-2015 10:39 PM
  8. getbretweir's Avatar
    BTW I know my opinion kinda moved a bit. didn't really articulate my thoughts that well in my original post on this thread.
    08-16-2015 10:40 PM
  9. Nine54's Avatar
    Samsung profit margins have been on the slide well before the s6/note 5 came out.

    You might have liked the note 4,but Samsung profits from the note 4 didn't help the downward trend.

    Really the issue is Samsung being squeezed at the top by Apple and at the bottom/mid by the lower specd devices from Huawei, xiaomi, lenovo.

    Are some people not going to buy the s6/note 5 due to the lack of microSD slot and removable battery? Sure. Is the number anywhere as big as forums make it to be? Perhaps amongst vocal forum members, Sure. But in the general public, I don't think the percentage I'd very large. Samsung isn't stupid. They did market studies before making their choice.





    Attachment 191331
    Apple dominates in terms of profitability because customers are willing to pay premium prices for mid-level phone hardware due to the iPhone's exclusive software experience. Apple has shifted consumer mindset and purchasing behavior from being about hardware and spec comparisons to being about the overall experience: does it "just work," is it easy to use, and is it nice to look at? Although there occasionally are fumbles like Apple Maps, by and large, the company strives to ensure that the answer to all those questions is "yes" whenever it introduces a new product or feature.

    By doing this repeatedly, Apple has earned consumer trust and brand loyalty. Many folks only consider Apple products and view the purchase of competitive products as a risk not worth taking: "I can buy the Apple product that I *know* will work or the competitor's product that I *hope* will work.

    In trying to "out-spec" Apple in the hopes of competing, vendors like Samsung end up with phones that are more expensive to produce, but that must be priced similarly to the iPhone in order to be competitive. Samsung tries make up for the erosion in profits through volume and by fabricating its own components, but how sustainable this is remains to be seen. However, manufacturing many of its own components definitely gives it an advantage over other Android OEMs who are much more reliant on Qualcomm and other suppliers.

    But as you noted, the company is getting squeezed at the lower end in China through the flood of more value-oriented devices from Chinese vendors. These vendors have managed to cram "good enough" components into more phablet-leaning frames that aren't necessarily "premium" in terms of materials, but are "attractive enough." So in markets like China, Samsung is kind of caught in the middle: its products are not perceived as "aspirational" as Apple's or as good of a value as those from Chinese vendors.

    Note to the mods: It would be great to see more "general" company threads like this, but the available device-specific forums don't seem like the best fit and potentially narrow the audience. Can you consider creating a "Samsung General" or "Armchair CEO" forum a la CrackBerry for posts like this?
    08-16-2015 11:20 PM
  10. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    One lady poster has summed up my thoughts perfectly, let me quote 2 posts:



    Yep, I was like that, and did exactly that, purchased because I was confident in Samsung. BIG mistake!



    Yep, that's exactly what happened to me, purchased a Samsung Galaxy S6 when it seems what I wanted was a Samsung Galaxy S6 Active - and am now stuck with a phone that's NOT waterproof, CANNOT do what I did with my Note 2 just recently on holiday, ie adding a new SD card for all the holiday video files, and will not last long because the battery cannot be changed.

    Every one of my previous Samsung phones has had its battery replaced by a Mugen Power battery once the original has lost its ability to hold a decent charge. Now it seems my new phone is disposable and I'm to throw it away when the battery dies?

    As just mentioned on another thread, my next phone will NOT be a Samsung, not unless they come up with an armored, waterproof phablet that's ultralight but with a long-lasting battery. As Samsung clearly has no interest in such a phone or market then no, I won't buy another.

    I live in Asia and have easy access to some pretty good Chinese phones at vastly lower prices. A MAJOR reason I haven't bought one, aside from being "burned" by mistakenly getting the wrong, non-waterproof phone, is PRECISELY BECAUSE I TRUSTED SAMSUNG NOT TO STITCH ME UP WITH A CHEAP, DISPOSABLE PHONE, WITH MISSING BASICS SUCH AS AN SD SLOT, REMOVABLE BATTERY OR MISLEADING NAME!

    Instead they have done EXACTLY THAT!

    I now have ZERO brand loyalty, and if I cannot get hold of an S6 Active (apparently people living next to rainforests and with a monsoon season don't' need waterproof phones...?) or mint-condition S5, I'll check if any Chinese make has Gorilla Glass. If they do, then Samsung can go [language removed].
    Why not get either one of these if you want a user-replaceable battery AND a microSD card slot? They seem to be the only flagship around that has both.
    Attached Thumbnails I think Samsung is in trouble-1439794132290.jpg   I think Samsung is in trouble-1439794182617.jpg  
    bigglyguy likes this.
    08-17-2015 01:49 AM
  11. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    Phones like the Moto X Pure you mentioned and Zenfone 2 ZE551ML 64GB are why I think Samsung may not see record sales anytime soon.

    Phones that pack in flagship punch for a very reasonable price. They make the Galaxy S6 look overpriced by comparison.

    IMO, the wooden Moto X Pure looks better than the S6. My personal opinion, however.

    I may throw in the OnePlus Two in the list, but the fact that it still requires an invite is a no-go for me.

    But with all these phones coming out, we should see the days of the $600 Android flagship coming to an end.

    Not if Samsung does it right. I think that Samsung should have made the Edge version only. And throw in other features unmatched by Apple. And spec filled to be way over upcoming phones like Moto X to be very tempting to spend extra. What about the Edge version with standard 128GB, SD slot, front flash, rear xenon flash, waterproofing, class leading front facing speakers and let's say a 3500 mah battery?

    Do you think that would be tempting to all those considering OnePlus, Moto X etc?
    08-17-2015 03:37 AM
  12. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    Not if Samsung does it right. I think that Samsung should have made the Edge version only. And throw in other features unmatched by Apple. And spec filled to be way over upcoming phones like Moto X to be very tempting to spend extra. What about the Edge version with standard 128GB, SD slot, front flash, rear xenon flash, waterproofing, class leading front facing speakers and let's say a 3500 mah battery?

    Do you think that would be tempting to all those considering OnePlus, Moto X etc?
    It might be, but I think by the time these are put into a Samsung flagship, the most expensive Android flagship would be like $450. I'm just predicting, so I might be wrong.
    08-17-2015 03:40 AM
  13. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    It might be, but I think by the time these are put into a Samsung flagship, the most expensive Android flagship would be like $450. I'm just predicting, so I might be wrong.
    Yes but Samsung could also combat this, as I have started before, with their own $450 phone that would be far better than OnePlus etc. What I suggested was a modified version of the S5 with a new cool body.

    What do you think?
    08-17-2015 03:54 AM
  14. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    Yes but Samsung could also combat this, as I have started before, with their own $450 phone that would be far better than OnePlus etc. What I suggested was a modified version of the S5 with a new cool body.

    What do you think?
    If it's $450, then it'll be a winner.
    08-17-2015 04:00 AM
  15. russel5150's Avatar
    If you all look back several years ago, the android market was not as competitive as it is today.

    Samsung stepped up and made a good phone w top specs of the day.. They were really the first name in android.

    Nowadays there are so many choices to pick from and a new phone hits the market every couple of months.

    Samaung isn't the android spec phone it used to be. Androids blessing has become samsungs curse..

    Motorola has progressively gotten better the last few years, they have also been sold twice. The had a lot of room to grow. Samsung is at the point it's not the only "quality" top of line phone anymore.

    Touchwiz is better than its ever been, but the hardware design has taken a hit according to purist.

    If samsung decided to keep the note line separate from the s series, and make just a few phones they could save so much money they could drop the price.

    Make the galaxy s series the edged phones, make a budget phone, and then return the note to a true work horse ( yes with bigger battery and sd card) and market those three phones, the sales would probably go up a lot.

    Problem is they changed the note when it was doing well, and cut features rather than selling the features that make the note a note.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    bigglyguy likes this.
    08-17-2015 04:18 AM
  16. BobB67's Avatar
    I think people are missing the point, Samsung has made buying a high end Android handset easy for people who don't want to to the research. Note 5 will do just fine, Edge maybe not so much. All the pressure Samsung faces is due to Chinese phones and the mid/low end pushing average selling price down.

    Really Samsung is playing the smart game, because to the average consumer there are Samsung Android phones and iPhones.
    08-17-2015 05:35 AM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I think people are missing the point, Samsung has made buying a high end Android handset easy for people who don't want to to the research. Note 5 will do just fine, Edge maybe not so much. All the pressure Samsung faces is due to Chinese phones and the mid/low end pushing average selling price down.

    Really Samsung is playing the smart game, because to the average consumer there are Samsung Android phones and iPhones.
    That's how it is here in Cleveland, Ohio where I live. The majority of smartphones I see in the wild are Samsung and iPhone. Those two manufacturers comprise about 90% of what I see. The other 10% are Nexus, Moto, LG, HTC.

    Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk
    BobB67 likes this.
    08-17-2015 06:22 AM
  18. syspry's Avatar
    Most people don't have the time or don't have the brains or don't care about customizing their phones. Many just want the hippest phone. Those are iPhone users.

    I do have the time, brains, and inclination to customize my phones but google and Samsung diminish my enthusiasm with each generation of phones that do less cost more and diminish the Android experience by limiting customization. I never thought I would buy an iPhone but s6, note 5, HTC that never changes, and LG weird back buttons have me considering it.
    They sell because they are Simple and easy to use. Plain and Simple. They are NOT complicated to the extent that they scratch their head wondering how in the world Android users use their type of phone . Android comes up with the advanced technology and innovation. Their motto, "The Next Big Thing Is Here" . That's who they are. APPLE does it their ways and it works because that is their motto. I tried the IPhone 5 for two days and took it back to get the Note 3 months after it came out. I Need customization, I need theme launchers, I need a decent File Management, i need to be able to send More than one file or from different mediums, LED indicator, etc; OH and not to mention More than ONE way to get damn music files off the pc to a phone without using only Itunes. (This drove me insane as i had to be chained to my pc to transfer files. I rather drag and drop then be on my way). IPhone doesn't have all of that. They are Slowly adding some of those features, but it's too slow for me.
    So year after year proven track record for reliability, performance, quality, and support are just afterthoughts to why they sell so well? It doesn't matter how ingenious your marketing department is, you can't sustain being one of the top sellers for this long by selling mediocre product. I agree with you, they are meant to appeal to people wanting simplicity. But propelling that to the forefront while downplaying the quality of the device I don't agree with.

    Further to that, I don't agree that owning Apple products in any way disqualifies you from being tech oriented. One could easily create a masterwork of integrated home technology using Apple products. Just because the guy next door does the same using Android or something else and says "hey I want to flash some ROMs, install a file manager, and customize my homescreen too" doesn't make him a higher tier tech geek.

    Like it or not, Apple is still leading the industry and Samsung and others are playing follow the leader. Apple was the first to have a consistently good camera, a couple of Android OEM's followed suit. 64 bit: same. Premium design: same. Smooth software performance: still playing catch up. Nobody cared about Google wallet until Apple decided smartphone payments were something to do. There are some fronts in which Apple has been slow to follow, and that's been mostly in the area of pure hard specs and screen size to name the most prominent. Of those two, Apple doesn't really need to play in the spec wars due to iOS optimization.
    MikeX74 likes this.
    08-17-2015 12:07 PM
  19. Crashdamage's Avatar
    Apple follows the KISS rule, even though they only make high-end devices. Apple makes the selection of a phone, setup and use as easy as possible. They know just because a buyer wants a cool car, will pay for a cool car and likes to drive a cool car, doesn't mean that they ever want to open the hood. They'll put gas in it, maybe even check the air in the tires, but that's it. For average Appls customers, clearly that has been the correct choice.

    Samsung, meanwhile, is doing the opposite. Let's compare shopping for a phone...

    Apple hardware: A few choices, with easy to understand step by step upgrades. If Apple doesn't make what a customer wants, the customer has to change their mind about what they want.

    Samsung hardware: Literally dozens of choices. Heaven help the poor customer trying to figure out what the differences in all the Galaxy models is. Every possible market niche is covered. If I get a removable battery, can it fall out? Is an SD card the same as a SIM card? Why do they call this one an Edge? Well, what is that good for?

    Apple software: They make iOS. One way. All iOS devices work the same. Simple. No bloatware ever.

    Samsung software: Android, but with something called Touchwiz. Oh my...what is that? My sister has an Android phone called a Z3 but it doesn't look like this Touchwiz thing. What are all these apps? Can you delete them and credit the difference saved?

    It goes on and on in phone stores every day. People walk in for an iPhone, pick one and go happily on their way.

    They walk in with an Android in mind, get confused about Sense and Touchwiz, decide to simplify their life - and walk out with an iPhone.

    Samsung - and others - need to stick closer to the KISS rule. Go with vanilla Android. It just works. Cut the number of models and just simplify. And I don't mean a few phones. There needs to be a MASSIVE reduction in hardware and software.



    Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001.
    TheDonJ77 likes this.
    08-17-2015 01:12 PM
  20. Ry's Avatar
    Samsung got so big in terms of mindshare because they made their products the "cool" ones to have.

    It wasn't purely specs but a good bit of marketing.

    I don't think you can paint the average Samsung S and Note customer as some sort of super tech-savvy, "I hate iPhones because they're too simple", "I buy extra batteries", "I buy memory cards" kind of customer.
    BobB67 likes this.
    08-17-2015 02:16 PM
  21. Ry's Avatar
    It goes on and on in phone stores every day. People walk in for an iPhone, pick one and go happily on their way.

    They walk in with an Android in mind, get confused about Sense and Touchwiz, decide to simplify their life - and walk out with an iPhone.

    Samsung - and others - need to stick closer to the KISS rule. Go with vanilla Android. It just works. Cut the number of models and just simplify. And I don't mean a few phones. There needs to be a MASSIVE reduction in hardware and software.
    People ask for the new Galaxy phone too.

    And Samsung's customizations are a part of what makes Android so great.

    Examples:
    Android has no native support for a stylus interface. S-Pen and the Note line wouldn't even exist. They'd just be large screen devices that wouldn't be able to differentiate themselves from other large screen devices.
    Android has no native multi-window support (is that an M feature? If so, it's not released yet so it doesn't matter). An AOSP Note ad wouldn't showcase that feature.

    Vanilla Android doesn't seem to be working to differentiate Android One models.
    Adawg1203 likes this.
    08-17-2015 02:25 PM
  22. Crashdamage's Avatar
    People ask for the new Galaxy phone too.
    A credit to the power of marketing.

    And Samsung's customizations are a part of what makes Android so great.
    A matter of opinion. And IMHO, no, they're not. They're part of the problem.

    Examples:
    Android has no native support for a stylus interface.
    This is gonna sound harsh, but...so what?

    S-Pen and the Note line wouldn't even exist. They'd just be large screen devices that wouldn't be able to differentiate themselves from other large screen devices.
    Again, so what? If they never existed it would have at most a minor effect on Android sales. There's just not a large percentage of overall Android users who own Notes.

    Android has no native multi-window support (is that an M feature? If so, it's not released yet so it doesn't matter). An AOSP Note ad wouldn't showcase that feature.
    Another feature of interest to a relatively small number of users. But for those who care, yes, it is coming in M.

    Vanilla Android doesn't seem to be working to differentiate Android One models.
    Sub-$100 phones is a tough market. I don't think including Touchwiz would help.

    What's more important to users than a few special features is a quality, easy to use product. Reliable, updated and a good value. Samsung is so distracted by making dozens of devices, custom software, loading bloatware (CM Security? Really Samsung? It's malware!) and silly gimmick 'enhancements' like the Edge that they've lost their way.

    Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001.
    08-17-2015 03:01 PM
  23. Ry's Avatar
    A credit to the power of marketing.


    A matter of opinion. And IMHO, no, they're not. They're part of the problem.


    This is gonna sound harsh, but...so what?


    Again, so what? If they never existed it would have at most a minor effect on Android sales. There's just not a large percentage of overall Android users who own Notes.


    Another feature of interest to a relatively small number of users. But for those who care, yes, it is coming in M.


    Sub-$100 phones is a tough market. I don't think including Touchwiz would help.

    What's more important to users than a few special features is a quality, easy to use product. Reliable, updated and a good value. Samsung is so distracted by making dozens of devices, custom software, loading bloatware (CM Security? Really Samsung? It's malware!) and silly gimmick 'enhancements' like the Edge that they've lost their way.

    Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001.
    Sounds like you want Google to build their own halo phone and no one else.
    08-17-2015 03:45 PM
  24. Crashdamage's Avatar
    Sounds like you want Google to build their own halo phone and no one else.
    Not at all. I'm just sayin' that Samsung - and to an extent other manufacturers like HTC - have lost track of what customers by a product for. To use.

    Do you really think anyone appreciates the ridiculous load of crapware on a new S6? Or that iPhone users look at an Edge and don't giggle about what goofy gimmick Samsung will try next? And the reliability of Samsung hardware and software...endless posts, post after post after post about WiFi problems, email client problems, problems with problems. Clearly, the hardware and software is not as it should be. An $800 phone should be absolutely rock-solid!

    Samsung needs to simplify everything. And get very serious about usability and reliability. Or their customers will make the decision for them. iPhones have big screens now too ya know. And the new Motorolas, for example, are beautiful, well made, reliable and much cheaper.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-17-2015 04:52 PM
  25. KJ78's Avatar
    If the incremental upgrade is so small that customers don't want it, force it on them by designing an internal battery that won't be cost effective to replace.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    08-17-2015 05:55 PM
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