08-21-2015 02:00 PM
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  1. Crashdamage's Avatar
    If the incremental upgrade is so small that customers don't want it, force it on them by designing an internal battery that won't be cost effective to replace.
    You can have most non-removable batteries replaced, including parts and labor, for about $35-85.00 depending on the phone and size of the battery. Average cost is about $50.00. That should be cost-effective enough for any decent phone. And if the shop has the battery in stock or you have them order it ahead, most shops will replace a battery while you wait in 20-30 minutes.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-17-2015 06:38 PM
  2. Diordna11's Avatar
    My first Samsung phone was a Galaxy S followed by an S2, Note 2 and then a Note 4. I was one of the unlucky ones that got a Note 4 with the camera focusing problem, but other than that I loved it. My Note 4 was on Verizon and I had terrible reception at my house yet all of the other carriers were excellent there so after dealing with it for 8 months I had to make a change and I went back to T-mobile 3 weeks ago and then had to decide which phone to get. I was thinking about sticking my new Tmo SIM in my old Note 2 and waiting for the Note 5, but then I read about the sealed battery and no expandable storage and glass back and immediately scratched that idea. I almost pulled the trigger on another Note 4 and at the last minute decided to check out the G4 and I am so glad I did because after having it for 3 weeks I love it. My business partner was shopping for a new phone as well and he isn't into phones like I am and he usually just goes with what I recommend. Had I bought a Note 5, he would have too, but instead he just picked up a G4 so Samsung lost 2 loyal customers inside of 3 weeks. I am sure the Note 5 is an excellent phone, but I just don't feel like Samsung is listening to their long term loyal customers that brought them to the dance several years ago. On the other hand LG is listening to Samsungs customers and gladly picking them up at a brisk pace.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    08-17-2015 06:42 PM
  3. scribe4food's Avatar
    My first Samsung phone was a Galaxy S followed by an S2, Note 2 and then a Note 4. I was one of the unlucky ones that got a Note 4 with the camera focusing problem, but other than that I loved it. My Note 4 was on Verizon and I had terrible reception at my house yet all of the other carriers were excellent there so after dealing with it for 8 months I had to make a change and I went back to T-mobile 3 weeks ago and then had to decide which phone to get. I was thinking about sticking my new Tmo SIM in my old Note 2 and waiting for the Note 5, but then I read about the sealed battery and no expandable storage and glass back and immediately scratched that idea. I almost pulled the trigger on another Note 4 and at the last minute decided to check out the G4 and I am so glad I did because after having it for 3 weeks I love it. My business partner was shopping for a new phone as well and he isn't into phones like I am and he usually just goes with what I recommend. Had I bought a Note 5, he would have too, but instead he just picked up a G4 so Samsung lost 2 loyal customers inside of 3 weeks. I am sure the Note 5 is an excellent phone, but I just don't feel like Samsung is listening to their long term loyal customers that brought them to the dance several years ago. On the other hand LG is listening to Samsungs customers and gladly picking them up at a brisk pace.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Depending on what rumors are true, regarding the LG G4 Pro, Samsung has lost a customer in me.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    21stNow likes this.
    08-17-2015 07:25 PM
  4. getbretweir's Avatar
    Not if Samsung does it right. I think that Samsung should have made the Edge version only. And throw in other features unmatched by Apple. And spec filled to be way over upcoming phones like Moto X to be very tempting to spend extra. What about the Edge version with standard 128GB, SD slot, front flash, rear xenon flash, waterproofing, class leading front facing speakers and let's say a 3500 mah battery?

    Do you think that would be tempting to all those considering OnePlus, Moto X etc?
    it would be tempting, but it would still have TW and cost 2x the price ... personally I'd still opt for the moto x. I just thing the premium smartphone market is slowing down, and I think no matter what features it came with people would still opt for the less expensive alternative ... not everyone obviously, but a significant amount.
    08-17-2015 07:35 PM
  5. mavrrick's Avatar
    The problem with that sentiment is that there is no good replacement for the S-Pen. For users that do use it like myself we are kind of getting screwed.

    Users that hardly touched it and just got the note because it had the best of everything else will probably be well taken care of with the S6 edge + or thr alternatives.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    08-17-2015 08:18 PM
  6. Ry's Avatar
    Not at all. I'm just sayin' that Samsung - and to an extent other manufacturers like HTC - have lost track of what customers by a product for. To use.

    Do you really think anyone appreciates the ridiculous load of crapware on a new S6? Or that iPhone users look at an Edge and don't giggle about what goofy gimmick Samsung will try next? And the reliability of Samsung hardware and software...endless posts, post after post after post about WiFi problems, email client problems, problems with problems. Clearly, the hardware and software is not as it should be. An $800 phone should be absolutely rock-solid!

    Samsung needs to simplify everything. And get very serious about usability and reliability. Or their customers will make the decision for them. iPhones have big screens now too ya know. And the new Motorolas, for example, are beautiful, well made, reliable and much cheaper.
    You do realize that they all chase the money, right? It may seem like they sometimes they think of the users but it there's always something else motivating them to do what they do.

    Posted via Android Central App (Moto X)
    08-17-2015 09:05 PM
  7. MuchoAloha's Avatar
    Extra space for your notes and stuff??? Notes take up no space at all.
    That's pretty much how I feel. I skipped the Note 3 because my Note2 still did everything I wanted without any issues. I held off on the Note 4 because the Note2 as still doing well enough but beginning to lag a bit and by the time I started thinking about upgrading, I knew the Note 5 would be coming out in a few months so I held off.

    When the specs for the S6 came out, I was talking with a lot of people at work who are also tech fans and we all speculated that: "There's NO WAY the Note wouldn't come with a SD card. For a phone that does so much more than the S-lines of phone, you really kind of need that extra storage for your "Notes" and what not.

    To say I was saddened by the release and actual specs of the Note5 would be an understatement but I'm going to give it a try. I'm really not looking forward to using it like I did when I first bought my Note2. There's no excitement right now for it.
    Adawg1203 likes this.
    08-17-2015 09:36 PM
  8. lumix2day's Avatar
    I am not so sure the general public really cares about the lack of a removable battery and microsd slot. Removing the MicroSD slot and the removable battery might be a disappointment for some 'advanced' users, but the bulk out there doesn't care. They care about design, appeal, image - that all has not changed with the S6 and especially the design aspect has been improved.

    I my opinion, the problem can be found in pricing. When Samsung first introduced the S6 and S6 Edge, the phone was priced on the same level as the iPhone 6 (with the S6 Edge even slightly above). That might work for the S6 Edge as this is certainly something innovative (design-wise) but the S6 is simply a slightly nicer upgrade to the S5 which suddenly costs way more. By now, they have started to lower the rrp, but certainly a lot of people who initially thought about upgrading decided to skip because of the inflated price for the upgrade compared to last year's model lineup.

    So while Samsung had the hype, the price in the first few weeks was simply perceived as not fair by most customers and hence they decided not to buy. That's absolutely Samsung's fault, they should have introduced the new design line while keeping the price on the same level as the intial price of the S5 - this way they would only face the design change as a variable and not the change in pricing AND design, which would have allowed for an easier analysis of the underlying issues.
    08-18-2015 06:14 AM
  9. JoJoCal19's Avatar
    Samsung's latest financial reporting session showed disappointing sales of the S6, and they admitted they underestimated the demand for the S6 Edge. By the time they figured out the mistake and increased Edge shipments, it was too late...the buzz had worn off. I see more of the same for the Note/S6 Edge +, as it seems Samsung is not doing a good job of understanding what their consumers want.

    I believe the root cause is a dramatic shift in Samsung's approach to phones and tablets. They want to be Apple 2.0, but have missed the bulk of the premium phone market already as most people who can afford the top of the line phones are seeing fewer reasons to upgrade every year for incremental feature enhancements. They have shifted the design of their top tier tablets to the same diminsions of iPads, but waited to do this until iPad sales had already started a large decline....again, too late to the premium game.

    There used to be complaints about Samsung's cheap hardware design (plastic backs, etc), but the phones still sold well. I believe they did need to improve in the hardware design area, and this year's models are indeed beautiful. However, they dropped many of the features that were differentiators between them and Apple, like removeable batteries, SD cards, IR blasters, water proofing (for the S5 anyway), etc. So now they have fewer feature advantages, little to no price advantage, have alienated a significant portion of their core users, and are facing a rapidly increasing set of Android competitors that offer good or better quality phones often at much lower prices.

    I hope I'm wrong. My last 3 phones have been the Note 4, Note 3, and S3. But as nice as the new phones look, things that matter to me are no longer available in the Samsung top tier. I'm gonna start looking at other vendors, and I'm guessing many others will as well.

    What do you think?
    This is exactly what I've been feeling like saying. Samsung is trying to be Apple, and they will lose badly at trying to be Apple. They're chasing the elusive profit margins Apple has. For the past few years my friend has always chided me over paying the Apple tax for storage. Now look who's over paying for storage (he preordered a Note 5). Many people chose Samsung/Android over Apple/iPhone due to the differentiators (SD, removable battery, IR blaster, FM tuner, etc, etc). Now that Samsung appears to be removing any of those features, jacking up their prices to Apple levels, I'm sure many people will either do one of two things, 1. Go with Apple, 2. Go with another Android manufacturer.
    MikeX74 likes this.
    08-18-2015 07:34 AM
  10. syspry's Avatar
    Here's my take on Samsung. This year they presented us with their mainstream Galaxy S line that fell down terribly on battery life, but on the flipside offered much nicer construction design, lighter weight software and a kicking camera at usual fairly high flagship prices. And the Note 5 with the above but also a better battery, larger screen, S-pen features at an even higher price tag.

    Then we have companies like Moto who aren't quite matching those specs but are coming pretty damn close for half the price. I'm sure Samsung will run circles around Moto in sales this year. But not from me. Moto X Style is a way better buy overall.
    08-18-2015 09:30 AM
  11. MikeX74's Avatar
    Marketing works.

    That's how Apple became the juggernaut that it is today.

    And that's also how Samsung caught up.

    Posted via Android Central App (Moto X)
    Good marketing can only take you so far. The fact is that Apple makes great products. Are they perfect? Hell no, but to say(or infer) that their skill at marketing is the sole reason why they're the "juggernaut" they are today is a bit naive. You can have the largest, splashiest ad campaign known to man, and millions of people can buy what you're selling, but if what you're selling sucks and the products get returned, what have you really accomplished, except for creating a negative perception around your brand?
    08-18-2015 10:00 AM
  12. lumix2day's Avatar
    Now that Samsung appears to be removing any of those features, jacking up their prices to Apple levels, I'm sure many people will either do one of two things, 1. Go with Apple, 2. Go with another Android manufacturer.
    Samsung seems to hope that those customers deciding to no longer buy Samsung phones due to a) even higher prices than usual and b) reduction of the feature set will be compensated by customers buying Samsung for the first time due to the nicer look and feel of the phones (basically becoming the Apple of Android with design phones that lack certain functions). Well, so far it only worked for the Edge but the strategy could potentially be successful - they just need to differentiate enough from the pack of cheaper Android phones.

    So yes, there might be some switching away from Samsung but there are potentially also those switching to Samsung - the number of people switching from the iPhone especially to the Edge seems to be higher than the switch rates in recent years. Then again, most people will stay within one OS environment due to not wanting to buy dozens of apps again, so the switch rates within Android are (logically) higher and the threshold to switching lower than in between iOS and Android.
    08-18-2015 10:00 AM
  13. rushmore's Avatar
    I am not so sure the general public really cares about the lack of a removable battery and microsd slot. Removing the MicroSD slot and the removable battery might be a disappointment for some 'advanced' users, but the bulk out there doesn't care. They care about design, appeal, image - that all has not changed with the S6 and especially the design aspect has been improved.

    I my opinion, the problem can be found in pricing. When Samsung first introduced the S6 and S6 Edge, the phone was priced on the same level as the iPhone 6 (with the S6 Edge even slightly above). That might work for the S6 Edge as this is certainly something innovative (design-wise) but the S6 is simply a slightly nicer upgrade to the S5 which suddenly costs way more. By now, they have started to lower the rrp, but certainly a lot of people who initially thought about upgrading decided to skip because of the inflated price for the upgrade compared to last year's model lineup.

    So while Samsung had the hype, the price in the first few weeks was simply perceived as not fair by most customers and hence they decided not to buy. That's absolutely Samsung's fault, they should have introduced the new design line while keeping the price on the same level as the intial price of the S5 - this way they would only face the design change as a variable and not the change in pricing AND design, which would have allowed for an easier analysis of the underlying issues.
    Conversely, those same people would not care about all the spec chasing the Note 5 does and could care less. Seems a mutually inclusive point There are lower cost options that will fit with consumers better in regards to pricing elasticity. If (huge profound IF) Motorola can market correctly and feed the media as needed with demo units and more info, the Moto X Pure/Style can gain share. The device is virtually half the cost and offers very good features for the price. Those same consumers do not care about the newest camera sensor, chipset, etc, but do get if the product has has good enough features, for a great price.

    I hope the Moto X does very well and does gain share, but not super confident that Moto / Lenovo will get it done. The device could get great reviews, but does no good if you can not market the product and supply the product in a timely manner. iPhone refresh is looming as well.

    Case in point, Motorola by media accounts had the best launch event and the products and presentation impressed. Now virtual complete darkness and zero apparent effort to bridge the launch to the actual product release. Wild.
    08-18-2015 10:09 AM
  14. GolferChris68's Avatar
    Depending on what rumors are true, regarding the LG G4 Pro, Samsung has lost a customer in me.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    The G4 was a big disappointment to me. I tried two of them, but felt underwhelmed. The camera software is great, but the image quality is meh - over-sharpened with a lot of distortion at the corners, and white balance that had problems with accuracy. The screen was OK, but terrible in sunlight. The UI was laggy, game performance was not good compared to Samsung, and the phone itself even with leather backing, feels cheap. Despite the "glowing" reviews when the phone first came out, it's been a disappointing seller for LG.

    The Note 5 will sell fine. Despite the legitimate complaints from a vocal few online, most consumers don't care about removable batteries and microSD cards. Not to mention, the 128GB variants of most phones are fringe sellers, and not readily available in stores (other than the iPhone 6). The Android competitors to the Note 5 are also limited or fringe - HTC is on life-support. The Moto X Style will mostly be sold online and not in stores. The LG G4 Pro is just a rumor at this point, and still not likely to be much of a seller. The Nexus devices are awesome (I have the Nexus 6), but again are fringe. For the most part, consumers wanting a larger "nex-gen" phone will select a Note 5 or iPhone 6s+, with some spillover to other phones. The Moto X Style is the only real competitor, but if it's not sold in carrier stores or other places like Best Buy, it's reach will be limited.
    08-18-2015 10:11 AM
  15. GolferChris68's Avatar
    I hope the Moto X does very well and does gain share, but not super confident that Moto / Lenovo will get it done. The device could get great reviews, but does no good if you can not market the product and supply the product in a timely manner. iPhone refresh is looming as well.
    I would also like to see the Moto X do well. Competition is great for us all. But the Moto X Style (Pure Edition), the logical Note 5 competitor, is not going to be sold in carrier stores and other retailers like Best Buy. Perhaps that will change, and the 5.7" Moto X will get to stores, but I doubt it. It's still a Samsung/Apple market, with a bunch of other fringe players, at least here in the United States. Kind of a Coke vs Pepsi situation. :-)

    Personally, I really like the Note 5, and having one arriving today (black, 64GB Verizon). I've been using the Nexus 6 as my daily driver, and it's awesome. But there are some things about it that suffer in comparison to the Note line. I will hang on to my Nexus 6 just for Android M and for development, but the Note 5 will likely become my daily-use phone.
    08-18-2015 10:17 AM
  16. rushmore's Avatar
    It is all relative to the user, since I have seen far more good reviews and feedback for the G4 than not. The catch is (as LG reps will tell you) there is virtually no product push in channels by LG once the product is released and channel marketing resources are minimal. Unlike Samsung that pushes channels as much as they can. The only phone maker that has real actual channel push is Apple. They dictate everything to retailers as far as supply- including the selling pubs and scripts.
    08-18-2015 10:19 AM
  17. rushmore's Avatar
    I would also like to see the Moto X do well. Competition is great for us all. But the Moto X Style (Pure Edition), the logical Note 5 competitor, is not going to be sold in carrier stores and other retailers like Best Buy. Perhaps that will change, and the 5.7" Moto X will get to stores, but I doubt it. It's still a Samsung/Apple market, with a bunch of other fringe players, at least here in the United States. Kind of a Coke vs Pepsi situation. :-)

    Personally, I really like the Note 5, and having one arriving today (black, 64GB Verizon). I've been using the Nexus 6 as my daily driver, and it's awesome. But there are some things about it that suffer in comparison to the Note line. I will hang on to my Nexus 6 just for Android M and for development, but the Note 5 will likely become my daily-use phone.
    Amazon and Best Buy are also selling the Moto X Pure. This was noted (NPI) in the Motorola launch event.
    08-18-2015 10:26 AM
  18. GolferChris68's Avatar
    Amazon and Best Buy are also selling the Moto X Pure. This was noted (NPI) in the Motorola launch event.
    Ah, thanks for the info. That they will be selling the Moto X Pure at Best Buy is a good move. They'll lose sales from not being in carrier stores, but Motorola should be congratulated for releasing a flagship device that is not loaded down with Carrier bloatware.
    08-18-2015 10:33 AM
  19. Ry's Avatar
    Conversely, those same people would not care about all the spec chasing the Note 5 does and could care less. Seems a mutually inclusive point There are lower cost options that will fit with consumers better in regards to pricing elasticity. If (huge profound IF) Motorola can market correctly and feed the media as needed with demo units and more info, the Moto X Pure/Style can gain share. The device is virtually half the cost and offers very good features for the price. Those same consumers do not care about the newest camera sensor, chipset, etc, but do get if the product has has good enough features, for a great price.

    I hope the Moto X does very well and does gain share, but not super confident that Moto / Lenovo will get it done. The device could get great reviews, but does no good if you can not market the product and supply the product in a timely manner. iPhone refresh is looming as well.

    Case in point, Motorola by media accounts had the best launch event and the products and presentation impressed. Now virtual complete darkness and zero apparent effort to bridge the launch to the actual product release. Wild.
    Moto event announced three phones and was clear on the time frames. Moto G in July (and it's become the darling of the industry again), Moto X Play in August (shipping starts soon - not a US phone so you will hardly see any marketing for it), and Moto X Style aka Moto X Pure Edition in September (it's still August).

    Posted via Android Central App (Moto X)
    08-18-2015 11:28 AM
  20. Ry's Avatar
    I am not so sure the general public really cares about the lack of a removable battery and microsd slot.
    Spoiler alert: they don't.

    Posted via Android Central App (Moto X)
    08-18-2015 11:28 AM
  21. wvtarheel's Avatar
    Totally agree. I love my G4 so much, but it'll probably be the last phone that costs $600+ that I'll own.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think Apple can charge $600+ for an iPhone for much longer if Android phones drop in price. They can't rely on their Die-hard fans for much longer IMHO.
    Apple's biggest threat is the carriers dropping the subsidized phones. Its going to hurt Samsung too, but Samsung can just change the specs of their device to save on costs. Apple is already producing phones with 1/2 the specs of any modern phone so they can't shave costs there
    D13H4RD2L1V3 likes this.
    08-18-2015 11:41 AM
  22. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    Apple's biggest threat is the carriers dropping the subsidized phones. Its going to hurt Samsung too, but Samsung can just change the specs of their device to save on costs. Apple is already producing phones with 1/2 the specs of any modern phone so they can't shave costs there
    Excellent point
    08-18-2015 11:42 AM
  23. Almeuit's Avatar
    Apple's biggest threat is the carriers dropping the subsidized phones. Its going to hurt Samsung too, but Samsung can just change the specs of their device to save on costs. Apple is already producing phones with 1/2 the specs of any modern phone so they can't shave costs there
    Well they could drop price -- They are overcharging like crazy for what they cost to make (same with Samsung). So could they drop the price? Yes -- Will they? Not sure. I would assume only if absolutely forced since they want to keep their profits.
    08-18-2015 11:46 AM
  24. rushmore's Avatar
    Ah, thanks for the info. That they will be selling the Moto X Pure at Best Buy is a good move. They'll lose sales from not being in carrier stores, but Motorola should be congratulated for releasing a flagship device that is not loaded down with Carrier bloatware.
    That and the features are the reason hoping the device is good and battery life as well. Unless there is some new tech, the Note 5 can get away with a 3000mah more due to the AMOLED display. I have not heard of a real power efficient LCD so far.
    08-18-2015 11:49 AM
  25. Crashdamage's Avatar
    Dropping subsidized phones won't hurt Apple much, if at all. Apple has other ways to get you trapped in their fruit-flavored ecosystem for life:

    http://www.sprint.com/landings/iphon...clsrc=aw.ds#!/

    No doubt the other carriers will soon have similar deals. If people want iPhones Apple and the carriers will find ways to put iPhones in their hands.

    Android since v1.0. Linux user since 2001.
    rushmore likes this.
    08-18-2015 11:51 AM
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