08-26-2015 08:24 AM
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  1. anon8380037's Avatar
    Haha, life is fraught with it. I was trying to be tactful with my previous post, but to be honest I think Forest Gump and Ron White had the best expressions on the topic...
    You may have thought I was coming from the "there's no problem" side, I wasn't, but OK.
    08-24-2015 03:24 PM
  2. Aquila's Avatar
    Please observe the previous moderator statement regarding trolling. Thanks!
    Almeuit and Erika Criger like this.
    08-24-2015 03:53 PM
  3. anon(394005)'s Avatar
    You may have thought I was coming from the "there's no problem" side, I wasn't, but OK.
    No problem, my bad. I got you. Don't mind me, I'm often in left field not making any sense (even to myself! ).
    anon8380037 likes this.
    08-24-2015 04:16 PM
  4. LeoRex's Avatar
    OK... I've spent the better part of my adult life in quality assurance. One of the biggest efforts in any kind of project is negative path testing. It is the most challenging and the the area of biggest risk. It is figuring out what could go wrong and trying to find a way to avoid the situation and keep it from happening.

    So should people be careful with inserting the S-Pen? Of course! This is a device that is worth several hundred dollars and isn't designed for outright abusive operation. But.... if inserting the pen backwards causes a permanent malfunction even if you don't do it with a lot of force, which this appears to be a case of, well, than I think it is something that should be (or should have been) addressed. Yes, it is a mistake on the part of the user, but the damage that is caused seems as if it could be easily avoided. All our products have design elements that are there specifically to keep bad stuff from happening when a user/owner does something stupid. Plugs that only go in one way, switches that can't be turned unless they SHOULD be turned, kill switches on snowblowers so you can't walk around to the front and stick your hand in while it is turning, etc... Yes, we shouldn't do silly things, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't design our things to not rip our arms off when we do.

    If I was doing any product testing on this, putting it in backwards would have most likely been one of the first things I would have tested... and I would have raised it as a design flaw and pushed to have it addressed. Now, what happened in this case? I don't know... I don't work at Samsung. But I find it hard to believe that they weren't aware of what would happen.
    08-24-2015 04:22 PM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    If I was doing any product testing on this, putting it in backwards would have most likely been one of the first things I would have tested...
    I would have punched the phone in the face to see how it does with sudden impacts...

    The rest of your post I agree with. This Pen doesn't seem like a last second idea that was just thrown in there, the device is sorta built around it.
    08-24-2015 04:36 PM
  6. anon8380037's Avatar
    It sparks of a very deferential culture within Samsung, where hierarchy is everything, and an engineer can raise a concern once, but if it doesn't fit in with their manager's targets, or it will make themselves look incompetent to their peers, it is brushed away.
    If true, Samsung would need to recognise it and change their South Korean ways.

    I think Japanese car makers, for example, who have plants in the UK and I'm sure the US, have established a good listening culture among staff.

    Reminiscent of the old deferential culture in an airliner cockpit, where the co-pilot would see a problem, but was afraid to overrule the captain.

    Pure speculation on my part, and I could be talking balderdash, but human nature - don't you love it?
    lackster2 likes this.
    08-24-2015 04:47 PM
  7. OceanView's Avatar
    Plugs that only go in one way, switches that can't be turned unless they SHOULD be turned, kill switches on snowblowers so you can't walk around to the front and stick your hand in while it is turning, etc... Yes, we shouldn't do silly things, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't design our things to not rip our arms off when we do.

    If I was doing any product testing on this, putting it in backwards would have most likely been one of the first things I would have tested... and I would have raised it as a design flaw and pushed to have it addressed. Now, what happened in this case? I don't know... I don't work at Samsung. But I find it hard to believe that they weren't aware of what would happen.
    Product testing for an item like a snow blower is expected as it can kill or severely maim a person but a stylus from a phone? Common, this is a phone mostly used by adults who should understand that if you pulled the stylus out in one direction, you should put it back in the same direction.
    MazoMark likes this.
    08-24-2015 04:50 PM
  8. anon(394005)'s Avatar
    Product testing for an item like a snow blower is expected as it can kill or severely maim a person but a stylus from a phone? Common, this is a phone mostly used by adults who should understand that if you pulled the stylus out in one direction, you should put it back in the same direction.
    Exactly! I've had three Note devices to date (ex. Note 2, OG Note 10.1, and Note 4) and have NEVER ever attempted (even inadvertently) to put the S-Pen back in its silo the wrong way!
    08-24-2015 04:55 PM
  9. LeoRex's Avatar
    Product testing for an item like a snow blower is expected as it can kill or severely maim a person but a stylus from a phone? Common, this is a phone mostly used by adults who should understand that if you pulled the stylus out in one direction, you should put it back in the same direction.
    It's an extreme case, but it's the same concept. These things can be avoided. And yes, you can't make everything foolproof, but you still try.
    anon8380037 likes this.
    08-24-2015 04:58 PM
  10. barry99705's Avatar
    Tell that to the kid in the back seat that want's to play Angry Birds. Yes, most adults know better, but most kids? Probably not. Besides, who would have thought it would physically break the phone by inserting it backwards?
    08-24-2015 05:24 PM
  11. anon8380037's Avatar
    The little people are listened to.

    Galaxy Note 5 pro tip: Insert the S Pen pointy end first | Android Central

    ----

    Added: GalaticBoar's vid ---



    I'm done.
    mrjspeed and GalaticBoar like this.
    08-24-2015 05:36 PM
  12. centerwaters's Avatar
    Thank You, Phil!

    Positive action at work.

    It's possible, and it's unfair, that's all we're sayin'.

    The little people are listened to.

    Galaxy Note 5 pro tip: Insert the S Pen pointy end first | Android Central

    ----

    Added: GalaticBoar's vid

    I'm done.
    I'm still at work and phones are not allowed inside the office building. My Note 4 is still
    in my car.

    I've had three Note phones. (2, 3, 4) While I've never attempted it, I was always under
    the impression that it was not possible to stick the S-pens in backward. The top part
    was bigger than then hole.

    Has this changed with the Note 5. I didn't notice it the two times that I played with it.

    Will try the Note 4 when I get out of work. Guess I'll also have to pull out my old
    Note 2 and Note 3 when I get home and try them as well!

    I fly a quite a bit. Probably around 80k miles per year, almost all on TATL flights,
    which means half of them are overnight flights. I do use my Note phones onboard
    all the time, in total darkness and yet I dont' recall every trying to stick the S-pen
    back inside backwards..... but who knows.
    08-24-2015 06:17 PM
  13. anon8380037's Avatar
    I'm still at work and phones are not allowed inside the office building. My Note 4 is still
    in my car.

    I've had three Note phones. (2, 3, 4) While I've never attempted it, I was always under
    the impression that it was not possible to stick the S-pens in backward. The top part
    was bigger than then hole.

    Has this changed with the Note 5. I didn't notice it the two times that I played with it.

    Will try the Note 4 when I get out of work. Guess I'll also have to pull out my old
    Note 2 and Note 3 when I get home and try them as well!

    I fly a quite a bit. Probably around 80k miles per year, almost all on TATL flights,
    which means half of them are overnight flights. I do use my Note phones onboard
    all the time, in total darkness and yet I dont' recall every trying to stick the S-pen
    back inside backwards..... but who knows.
    I had a Note 3 and no you couldn't put it in backwards. That's the point. I assume the Note 4 is like the 3. Watch the video above, taken after the retainer was broken I think, so it may fall in further first time, I don't know. Best to read the early posts.

    I think if you had the pen still in your hand, you are not going to put it back incorrectly. If they're both lying on a car/plane seat, say, and you suddenly have to go and so just grab them - I don't think that makes you a berk for putting it back by feel alone.

    Now I'm definitely done on this thread.
    I had no business here anyway, - but it's very like the unkind banter from the Note 3 cracked screen thread last year, as mentioned.
    08-24-2015 06:42 PM
  14. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    I'm still at work and phones are not allowed inside the office building. My Note 4 is still
    in my car.

    I've had three Note phones. (2, 3, 4) While I've never attempted it, I was always under
    the impression that it was not possible to stick the S-pens in backward. The top part
    was bigger than then hole.

    Has this changed with the Note 5. I didn't notice it the two times that I played with it.

    Will try the Note 4 when I get out of work. Guess I'll also have to pull out my old
    Note 2 and Note 3 when I get home and try them as well!

    I fly a quite a bit. Probably around 80k miles per year, almost all on TATL flights,
    which means half of them are overnight flights. I do use my Note phones onboard
    all the time, in total darkness and yet I dont' recall every trying to stick the S-pen
    back inside backwards..... but who knows.
    Note 4 will go in backwards also.
    08-24-2015 07:04 PM
  15. centerwaters's Avatar
    I had a Note 3 and no you couldn't put it in backwards. That's the point. I assume the Note 4 is like the 3. Watch the video above, taken after the retainer was broken I think, so it may fall in further first time, I don't know. Best to read the early posts.

    I think if you had the pen still in your hand, you are not going to put it back incorrectly. If they're both lying on a car/plane seat, say, and you suddenly have to go and so just grab them - I don't think that makes you a berk for putting it back by feel alone.

    Now I'm definitely done on this thread.
    I had no business here anyway, - but it's very like the unkind banter from the Note 3 cracked screen thread last year, as mentioned.
    When I fly on overnight flights, I sometimes leave my Note 2, 3, and
    now 4 on the tray table, along with the S-pen. I never had a problem
    putting the S-pen back in, even in total darkness.

    Like I said, I need to test my old Note 2 & 3, as well my Note 4, as
    soon as I get out of work. However, I don't believe it's possible to
    insert the S-pen backwards because the hole or the pen has a
    certain shape that prevents it.

    Assuming Samsung did change the shape of the hole and the pen,
    making it possible to insert it backwards, I do think it's a design flaw.
    The user deserves 50% of the blame, while Samsung deserve the
    other 50% of the blame. Why has this S-Pen-gate
    not made it to CNN yet? If Apple made this kind of "mistake" with
    new iPhones, it would have been on the news faster than the stock
    market crashing today.
    anon8380037 likes this.
    08-24-2015 07:04 PM
  16. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    The Note 4 will go in backwards. I don't still have my other Notes to try them.
    08-24-2015 07:20 PM
  17. 8100User's Avatar
    Slight humorous situation from years ago, that this thread reminded me of....

    My sister notices that her daughter, my niece, keeps fidgeting with her nose, while in the car. My niece was about two years old at the time.

    My sister asks her what's wrong, and Caroline, my neice, says that a crayon got stuck, and she can't get it out!

    Yup... she STUCK a crayon UP HER NOSE!

    They tried and tried, but after about 45 minutes, they finally had to take her to the hospital, where the crayon was removed.

    When asked by my sister why she stuck a crayon up her nose, Caroline replied..."it was hungry". (I have NO idea what that even means!)

    Footnote: Caroline is now a sophomore at Yale.
    08-24-2015 08:48 PM
  18. centerwaters's Avatar
    The Note 4 will go in backwards. I don't still have my other Notes to try them.
    Just got home... pulled out the Note 2 from the bottom drawer. Wow... I have not
    used it in almost 2 years, yet the phone just powered on immediately and showing
    87% battery life. Anyway, it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to insert the Note 2's S-Pen
    backwards. It can only go in one-way AND only when the correct side is facing up.

    Guess Samsung engineers changed it for subsequent Note phone.(including the
    most recent Note 5)
    anon8380037 likes this.
    08-24-2015 08:49 PM
  19. GalaticBoar's Avatar
    This is starting to be covered by the tech press. Search Google News for "Galaxy Note 5 s pen". Also #pengate on Twitter
    anon8380037 likes this.
    08-24-2015 11:04 PM
  20. sfla99's Avatar
    Sorry guys, I do agree and to an extent think Samsung should have put a system in place to taper the portion that holds the pen or a system that stops it half say, but seriously, I get it is possible to accidentally put it in backwards but people need to take a little responsibility for their actions here as well, the fault is not entirely on Samsung.

    That's like saying every car accident is the fault of the manufacturer cause they built a car than can crash into things.

    If you use it improperly, expect unintended results.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    debdroid1a and dllrogers55 like this.
    08-25-2015 07:06 AM
  21. goin_nil's Avatar
    This is starting to be covered by the tech press. Search Google News for "Galaxy Note 5 s pen". Also #pengate on Twitter
    pengate is alive and well.

    Samsung's version of antennagate and bendgate.

    Everyone's gotta gate, even Nixon (Watergate).
    08-25-2015 08:04 AM
  22. LeoRex's Avatar
    I get it is possible to accidentally put it in backwards but people need to take a little responsibility for their actions here as well, the fault is not entirely on Samsung.
    OK... this is correct. Yes, people make mistakes. But my real issue here isn't so much that people aren't responsible for their actions, my issue is that I look at this as a situation that is 100% avoidable on the part of Samsung. Let's first dispell the notion that they weren't aware that inserting the pen backwards breaks whatever mechanism detects that the pen is inserted. It is an impossible scenario.

    "Hey, the phone breaks if I throw it into a pool... design flaw."

    Yes, your phone would most likely get messed up if you chuck it into a pond. But one of the phone's main functions doesn't involve it being thrown over a body of water. Here, a stylus is getting inserted into port that was designed around said stylus. Anyone with a Note will do it countless times over and over. If, by some accident, it gets put in backwards, you are SOL. Maybe you aren't paying attention, maybe your kids are fighting and you are distracted... whatever the case may be... the simple act of sliding the pen home causes it to break. Not jamming it in, or torquing it, just inserting it in backwards. Is it a mistake on the part of the user? Yes. Is it a case of gross negligence? No.

    People aren't perfect. We all make mistakes. Like I mentioned before, I've been in software development for a LOOONG time, mostly doing quality assurance. Every company I work for spends time and effort testing negative path testing... What if the user clicks the wrong button at the wrong time? What if they navigate off this window when they shouldn't? Software, electronics, appliances, you name it, they all have design elements whose sole purpose is to make your life easier and give you a reasonable margin for error. Putting in a DVD upside down doesn't break the player. Accidently putting in the wrong key into (not jamming the thing in) your door, or car ignition, doesn't break the lock.. That little pop up window that asks "Are you sure?". I could list instances of such design choices all day long. Did the manufacturer have to make all these design changes? Nope. But they still make them.

    It's called due dilligence. And I just can't see that Samsung did that here. They could have easily reduced, if not completely eliminated the chance that permanent damage to the phone would occur if the S-Pen was inserted backwards. But they choose not to, for whatever reason.

    So yes, we can all make jokes about how stupid someone is for what amounts to a simple, honest mistake. My first reaction was pretty much that.. but as I thought about it, my opinion changed. Samsung made a poor choice here, in that I am sure. But this story will be blown out of proportion and made into something far worse than it actually is. To the people who saw the story and busted their Notes after they tried it for themselves... well.... OK, that's just being stupid and it is your own fault.
    KillerNut and anon8380037 like this.
    08-25-2015 09:14 AM
  23. sfla99's Avatar
    I did agree there should be a preventative method to avoid such an issue, non jokes were being made, but at the same time exercising a little caution and common sense goes a long a way.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
    08-25-2015 09:38 AM
  24. centerwaters's Avatar
    OK... this is correct. Yes, people make mistakes. But my real issue here isn't so much that people aren't responsible for their actions, my issue is that I look at this as a situation that is 100% avoidable on the part of Samsung. .
    they must have known that it was a possibility back when they designed the old Note 2. There's no way to insert it backwards in the Note 2. After that, they probably thought it was pointless and figured nobody was inserting the pens backwards, so they changed it after the Note 3, 4, and now 5.

    if Samsung changes the design again for the Note 6 and make it impossible to insert the S-Pen backwards, I guess that's as good as admitting they made mistake for the Note 4 and 5?
    08-25-2015 09:38 AM
  25. LeoRex's Avatar
    if Samsung changes the design again for the Note 6 and make it impossible to insert the S-Pen backwards, I guess that's as good as admitting they made mistake for the Note 4 and 5?
    Well... It will at least point to them acknowledging that it was something that needed addressing. Sort of like all the rumors that Apple is using a stronger aluminum and reinforcing the frame around the volume buttons on the upcoming 'S' refresh. But I would guess that you'll never actually hear Samsung say "OK, we could have designed this better in the first place."

    But let the tech press have their fun for a bit... until they find some other shiny object to get distracted by.
    08-25-2015 10:01 AM
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