08-18-2016 03:18 AM
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  1. bable's Avatar
    ? RAM, Processor, Screen, Camera, Storage, Software, Security, Battery Size, Battery Life, Build Materials, Build Quality, Charging Technology, Better S-Pen... I guess it's literally everything about the Note 7 is better.
    Lol...
    1 more gig of ram, two years later
    Screen is same specs and the edge is considered a fragile gimmick by many
    Camera is better in lowlight, note 4 is higher megapixel
    Storage is usually moot with an sd card
    Security? The stupid iris scanner that requires pressing the finger print scanner to activate?
    Battery may be better but a removable battery goes back to 100 with less gear to carry than battery pack
    Charging, see above
    Build materials, you love fragile glitzy glass? Note 4 is a tough beast, I'll take that any day like most rational consumers.
    Build quality? See above.
    Better spen, never had a problem with my current one...


    Real arguments...
    MST, gawddamm I want MST!
    huntnyc and d-signer like this.
    08-04-2016 08:50 PM
  2. AXEL314's Avatar
    What's the point in arguing over whether the Note 7 is "better" than the 4? If people love what they saw in the unveiling, great. If people still love that the 4 is capable device, great. In the end, they're both Samsung devices, both top quality tech.

    Note 4 910C 6.0.1 | Good Lock UI | Android Central App
    nahoku, LeoRex and Aquila like this.
    08-04-2016 09:14 PM
  3. jordyd's Avatar
    Exactly. They're all great Samsung devices.

    I hate how the edge is reference as a gimmick. It's not - it's a design choice. How do people expect to have an edge which is barely millimeters wide to have a proper use?

    Samsung has gone with a very small edge on the new note as it's a thing that really stands out from the rest of other phones. Androids about being different not the same. IOS caters for more of the same.
    WalkingHorse likes this.
    08-05-2016 06:45 AM
  4. Bosbouer's Avatar
    Samsung has gone with a very small edge on the new note as it's a thing that really stands out from the rest of other phones. Androids about being different not the same. IOS caters for more of the same.
    Does this mean that the "edge" notifications are not available on the Note7 AOD?
    08-05-2016 07:57 AM
  5. Aquila's Avatar
    Lol...
    1 more gig of ram, two years later
    Screen is same specs and the edge is considered a fragile gimmick by many
    Camera is better in lowlight, note 4 is higher megapixel
    Storage is usually moot with an sd card
    Security? The stupid iris scanner that requires pressing the finger print scanner to activate?
    Battery may be better but a removable battery goes back to 100 with less gear to carry than battery pack
    Charging, see above
    Build materials, you love fragile glitzy glass? Note 4 is a tough beast, I'll take that any day like most rational consumers.
    Build quality? See above.
    Better spen, never had a problem with my current one...


    Real arguments...
    MST, gawddamm I want MST!
    Android doesn't use RAM like Windows, it doesn't require 16GB in 2016.
    You skipped processor, assuming we're conceding that the SD820 is better than 32 Bit 2014 processors.
    The screen is MUCH better, more energy efficient, better color accuracy, much brighter. The 1440p isn't the "spec" of the screen, that's just the resolution. Everything else about it matters more.
    The camera is better at everything. It's the best camera available on a phone, while the Note 4 is more in like with 2015 phones (makes sense being released at the end of 2014). MP are somewhat irrelevant.
    Internal storage is the only type that matters in the storage category. 64 is more than 32 and it's faster in the Note 7. They both have SD cards, however the Note 4 can't handle SD cards properly, so in this area too, the Note 5 is more stable, faster, more secure.
    Security - better software, better fingerprint sensor
    Battery is larger, battery life is better
    Charging is faster, lower heat, USB C is better than micro USB, etc.
    Build materials - Gorilla Glass 5 is better than Gorilla Glass 4.
    Build quality - GG5 + IP68 = more likely to survive falls and nature
    Better S-Pen - "never had a problem with the current one" could be said about literally anything. My 2002 motorcycle still runs great - that doesn't mean the 2017's aren't better. In the Note 7, the s-pen is objectively better.

    Actually, in every one of these categories, based on things that can be measured, the Note 7 is better in literally every category than the Note 4. So your "real arguments" are a list of you stating, "I like this and I like that", along with several statements that show you don't understand the hardware aspect of the mobile phone spec races.

    While you are entitled to prefer whatever you want, I hope you'll understand that your preferences do not change the objective facts about the devices. So it's completely normal for you to like something that's inferior because it's a betting fitting product for your personal needs, but that doesn't have any bearing on which one is actually the better performer in any or all of the above categories.
    08-05-2016 09:05 AM
  6. Rowlette's Avatar
    While you are entitled to prefer whatever you want, I hope you'll understand that your preferences do not change the objective facts about the devices. So it's completely normal for you to like something that's inferior because it's a betting fitting product for your personal needs, but that doesn't have any bearing on which one is actually the better performer in any or all of the above categories.

    Inferior in who's eyes? So in your world something new is always better? If a product is completing someone personal needs is not "Inferior" but functional and saving a boat load of money. Next year then your Note be inferior to something else. :Spin: :smile2:
    08-05-2016 09:37 AM
  7. Aquila's Avatar
    Inferior in who's eyes? So in your world something new is always better? If a product is completing someone personal needs is not "Inferior" but functional and saving a boat load of money. Next year then your Note be inferior to something else. :Spin: :smile2: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...a203a99bb0.gif
    I'm using inferior in the objective sense here. I totally get that the value proposition may not be valid for all consumers, but pretending that something isn't better just because you either A don't like it as much or B can't justify the spend for it is just that - pretending. It is factually better, but not worth the money to that individual consumer.

    The list of criteria I put early in this thread are things that can be measured as being objectively better or worse and I avoided adding anything that can only be determined as a matter of preference. So while a person could state that they would rather have less storage than more storage, a person cannot state that 64 is a smaller number than 32 without being either incorrect or lying.

    In this case, the Note 7 is undeniably a better phone, in terms of it's components and execution on certain factors, than the Note 4 (and Note 5, and Note 3, etc). But it may not be a better fit for the personal needs of each person and each person needs to evaluate the benefits and costs for their own scenario. That's a question of value though, not performance.
    08-05-2016 09:44 AM
  8. Aquila's Avatar
    To clarify, I'm using this definition (which I thought was universal): An objective perspective is one that is not influenced by emotions, opinions, or personal feelings - it is a perspective based in fact, in things quantifiable and measurable. A subjective perspective is one open to greater interpretation based on personal feeling, emotion, aesthetics, etc.

    So objectively, the Note 7 is better in the following ways: RAM, Processor, Screen, Camera, Storage, Software, Security, Battery Size, Battery Life, Build Materials, Build Quality, Charging Technology, Better S-Pen. That is to say that every one of those items is measurably better.

    Subjectively, the Note 4 may be better FOR YOU if you prefer things that it has that the Note 7 doesn't or if you prefer things that they do differently or if the Note 4 is good enough, and you don't need the improvements that the Note 7 offers. Or if you view some of the improvements as actually degrading the experience; those are subjective statements.
    08-05-2016 10:04 AM
  9. d-signer's Avatar
    The front camera is an upgrade from 3.7MP to 5MP on the Note 7, but the rear camera (the most important I think) is a downgrade from 16MP on the Note 4, to 12MP on the Note 7. That's a 25% reduction for a "better" phone?

    No, thanks.
    Plus the Note 4 is more flexible as it can charge from 0% to 100% in less than 10 seconds by changing the battery, and can be rooted if desired.
    08-05-2016 10:14 AM
  10. Rowlette's Avatar
    a thing aimed at or sought; a goal.

    "the system has achieved its objective"

    synonyms:aim,*intention,*purpose,*target,*goal,*intent,*object,*end;*

    idea,*point,*design,*plan,*ambition,*aspiration,*desire,hope

    "you can't achieve your objectives unless people understand them"

    The problem is Objective is we all have a bias and that bias is portrayed in one writing, speaking etc. We are all subjective even when ones point of view might be side by side comparison. If a person uses a hand-held phone for making calls then an old flip phone makes his or her objectives. So if a Note 4 preforms to your needs then so be it but if a person feels a Note 7 will fill a personally/ professional/ phycological necessity then I say it the right objective.
    Just playing with words.
    natehoy likes this.
    08-05-2016 11:00 AM
  11. Aquila's Avatar
    a thing aimed at or sought; a goal.

    "the system has achieved its objective"

    synonyms:aim,*intention,*purpose,*target,*goal,*intent,*object,*end;*

    idea,*point,*design,*plan,*ambition,*aspiration,*desire,hope

    "you can't achieve your objectives unless people understand them"

    The problem is Objective is we all have a bias and that bias is portrayed in one writing, speaking etc. We are all subjective even when ones point of view might be side by side comparison. If a person uses a hand-held phone for making calls then an old flip phone makes his or her objectives. So if a Note 4 preforms to your needs then so be it but if a person feels a Note 7 will fill a personally/ professional/ phycological necessity then I say it the right objective.
    Just playing with words.
    You are using the term objective as in "an objective", or a goal. That's a noun. That's not the definition when used as an adjective. As an adjective it has synonyms, impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, etc. 1 is an odd number is an objective statement. 2 is an even number is an objective statement. I like even numbers more than odd numbers is a subjective statement.

    So in terms of this conversation, the adjective objective means things that can be measured as better or worse than other things. So the RAM, Camera, SoC, Display, Storage, etc, etc. are objectively better. The battery is objectively larger. The battery is objectively not removable and some people subjectively prefer a removable battery to a non-removable battery.
    08-05-2016 11:41 AM
  12. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    The front camera is an upgrade from 3.7MP to 5MP on the Note 7, but the rear camera (the most important I think) is a downgrade from 16MP on the Note 4, to 12MP on the Note 7. That's a 25% reduction for a "better" phone?

    No, thanks.
    Plus the Note 4 is more flexible as it can charge from 0% to 100% in less than 10 seconds by changing the battery, and can be rooted if desired.
    I don't think you understand cameras. More megapixels is not universally better.
    Almeuit and WalkingHorse like this.
    08-05-2016 11:42 AM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    The front camera is an upgrade from 3.7MP to 5MP on the Note 7, but the rear camera (the most important I think) is a downgrade from 16MP on the Note 4, to 12MP on the Note 7. That's a 25% reduction for a "better" phone?

    No, thanks.
    Plus the Note 4 is more flexible as it can charge from 0% to 100% in less than 10 seconds by changing the battery, and can be rooted if desired.
    The MP is not the defining feature of quality. The QUALITY is the defining feature of quality. The Note 7 takes better pictures than the Note 4, despite the smaller number of megapixels.
    Almeuit and WalkingHorse like this.
    08-05-2016 11:45 AM
  14. MrMELTDOWN's Avatar
    The front camera is an upgrade from 3.7MP to 5MP on the Note 7, but the rear camera (the most important I think) is a downgrade from 16MP on the Note 4, to 12MP on the Note 7. That's a 25% reduction for a "better" phone?

    No, thanks.
    Plus the Note 4 is more flexible as it can charge from 0% to 100% in less than 10 seconds by changing the battery, and can be rooted if desired.
    Reducing MP does not in and of itself reduce image quality. In this case it actually improves the IQ. Cramming less pixels on to a tiny sensor can enhance the ability of to sensors to gather more light and / or reduce noise. Even with comparing SLR's there are other more important features to consider than the number of pixels.

    Posted Via My Note 4 With Armor Coated Bullet Proof Otter Box
    Almeuit and d-signer like this.
    08-05-2016 11:47 AM
  15. d-signer's Avatar
    Point taken. Someone else mentioned this to me a short while ago.
    Although... quality of the pixel is important - increasing the amount towards being comparable with film (20MP+) is still desired.
    08-05-2016 12:00 PM
  16. d-signer's Avatar
    Point taken, but the Note 7 still doesn't charge as fast as the Note 4 by swapping the battery.
    Nitro211K likes this.
    08-05-2016 12:01 PM
  17. Aquila's Avatar
    More megapixels is not universally better.
    This. It's not even close. As an example, the Nokia Lumia 1020 has 41 MP yet is tied for being the 37th best camera in mobile. I think that's the highest MP in a phone.

    For reference, the top 10 cameras are:

    Tied for 1st: 12 MP, 12 MP, 12 MP, 23 MP
    Tied for 5th: 21 MP, 16 MP, 23 MP
    Tied for 8th: 16 MP, 16 MP, 16 MP

    Using the top 40 cameras as a data set, the correlation between rank and MP count is .2082, which means it's approximately random.
    08-05-2016 12:02 PM
  18. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    The front camera is an upgrade from 3.7MP to 5MP on the Note 7, but the rear camera (the most important I think) is a downgrade from 16MP on the Note 4, to 12MP on the Note 7. That's a 25% reduction for a "better" phone?

    No, thanks.
    Plus the Note 4 is more flexible as it can charge from 0% to 100% in less than 10 seconds by changing the battery, and can be rooted if desired.
    As others above me have said, there's way more to what makes a great camera than just the megapixel count.

    Phone sensors are typically very small. Usually about 1/3" diagonal at the smallest end to about 1/2.3" diagonal at the largest in most applications. As with all camera sensors, there is a "sweet spot" that allows the camera to capture high amounts of detail while ensuring that the pixels receive enough light for better low-light performance.

    Contrary to what you stated, megapixels are not what defines camera performance. In fact, camera performance is determined through multiple factors, which include;
    • Aperture size (concerns DoF and exposure)
    • Lens quality (concerns color-fringing and chromatic abberations)
    • Pixel size (concerns mainly low-light performance)
    • Autofocus accuracy and speed
    • Software processing
    • Stabilization (OIS, DIS or hybrid)
    • Sensor quality and size
    • Dynamic range


    There's way more to what makes a great camera than just megapixel count. In the case of the Note 4 vs the Note7, dropping from 16MP to 12MP isn't actually a bad move. This is done to increase pixel size. On the Note 4's IMX240, the pixel size is 1.12-microns. However, on the Note7's IMX260, the pixel size is increased to 1.4-microns. Obviously, daylight photos may appear a tiny bit soft, but overall, performance is great and still results in lots of detail.

    However, the benefit is in low-light. Having a small pixel that is less able to receive light means that the ISO has to be ramped up aggressively while the shutter speed may also be slowed down for increased exposure. OIS can help with the latter for stability, but the former presents issues, especially when it comes to noise-reduction, which can actually smear some detail. In low-light scenarios, it's typically better to have a slightly lower MP count with larger pixels to reduce noise levels, so that noise-reduction doesn't have to be as aggressive in smearing detail to reduce noise.

    Overall, the Note7's camera is actually an upgrade. Sure, you lose a few megapixels, but you gain a lot more. You gain much better low-light performance while largely retaining daylight performance, and you also gain an excellent Dual-Pixel autofocus system that's currently the fastest of any phone out there. There's more in store in that camera package, however.

    Note that I'm in no way saying that the camera on the Note 4 is terrible. It's still a nice camera to use, even in this day. But Samsung wouldn't simply downgrade a camera. If they had to drop MP count, it would have to be for a good reason, and in this case, I'd say job well done.
    08-05-2016 12:04 PM
  19. d-signer's Avatar
    I don't think you understand cameras. More megapixels is not universally better.
    Hasselblad understand cameras.
    Check out the amount of pixels they have in their cameras. Yes true, "pixels are not the only thing that define the image quality", but they are the primary thing.

    I would expect the Note 7 to maintain 16MP - at a better quality than the Note 4, rather than reduce to 12MP - with quality of pixels making up for the loss of pixels.
    08-05-2016 12:08 PM
  20. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Point taken, but the Note 7 still doesn't charge as fast as the Note 4 by swapping the battery.
    So you're willing to give up all of the improvements for what amounts to a convenience feature?

    The logic isn't there. In fact, it's not even close.

    I used to be a "swappable battery guy" (wanted the feature even if I didn't use it regularly) until improvements in literally everything else made me have to adapt sealed batteries.
    Almeuit and WalkingHorse like this.
    08-05-2016 12:09 PM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    Note that I'm in no way saying that the camera on the Note 4 is terrible. It's still a nice camera to use, even in this day.
    Yes, it is still in the top 20 (in a tie for 16th best) and holds its own against most 2015 phones, including the LG G4, Moto X Style and it's better than all the iPhone cameras to date except for the 6s Plus.
    08-05-2016 12:09 PM
  22. Aquila's Avatar
    Hasselblad understand cameras.
    Check out the amount of pixels they have in their cameras. Yes true, "pixels are not the only thing that define the image quality", but they are the primary thing.

    I would expect the Note 7 to maintain 16MP - at a better quality than the Note 4, rather than reduce to 12MP - with quality of pixels making up for the loss of pixels.
    They're not the primary thing; the data just isn't there to support that claim in phones. I don't believe it's there to support that claim in any cameras, but it just doesn' t exist in phones. The correlation rounds to .21, indicating there is no correlation on phones, let alone any causal link. How many phones have Hassleblad cameras in them? The biggest things in phone image quality seem to be the handling of light and software processing.
    08-05-2016 12:11 PM
  23. D13H4RD2L1V3's Avatar
    I would expect the Note 7 to maintain 16MP - at a better quality than the Note 4, rather than reduce to 12MP - with quality of pixels making up for the loss of pixels.
    Yeah, they would need a bigger sensor for a 16MP sensor with a 1.4-micron pixel size...

    One bigger than a 1/2-inch sensor.

    Unless you want a pretty big camera hump, I don't think that's practical
    08-05-2016 12:11 PM
  24. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Hasselblad understand cameras.
    Check out the amount of pixels they have in their cameras. Yes true, "pixels are not the only thing that define the image quality", but they are the primary thing.

    I would expect the Note 7 to maintain 16MP - at a better quality than the Note 4, rather than reduce to 12MP - with quality of pixels making up for the loss of pixels.
    Also look at the physical size of the sensor. Then realize the optics you need to attach to it to actually take pictures.

    Again, you're proving you don't have a solid understanding of cameras. That's not meant as an insult. It's just that cameras are far more complex than most people realize.

    Yeah, I'd love a Hasselblad sensor on my phone. But then I'd have a giant camera with some phone functionality built in lol.

    In the case of the Note 7 - to keep the pixel size what it is but increase the resolution the device would need to be thicker to accommodate the optics. How much thicker? I'm not sure, but enough that Samsung didn't want to do it.
    Almeuit likes this.
    08-05-2016 12:15 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    In the case of the Note 7 - to keep the pixel size what it is but increase the resolution the device would need to be thicker to accommodate the optics. How much thicker? I'm not sure, but enough that Samsung didn't want to do it.
    I'm not even going to give you this point. They decreased the MP count and got better Image Quality. Measurably better. That means the MP doesn't matter, at all, when comparing these two phones. Better matters.
    08-05-2016 12:18 PM
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