09-19-2016 04:55 AM
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  1. recDNA's Avatar
    It isn't Samsung. It is the cord, charging port, adapter, etc manufacturers. They aren't meeting specs.

    This has happened with other C port phones and electronics for the same reason.
    And shouldn't. Safety features must be built in to correct it. If phone becomes unusable. If battery safety circuit blows and battery must be replaced. If digitizer no longer functions properly these are all acceptable events for improper use. Explosions are not when the improper use is predictable. VZW sells the adapters to do it.
    debdroid1a likes this.
    09-04-2016 10:27 AM
  2. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    And shouldn't. Safety features must be built in to correct it. If phone becomes unusable. If battery safety circuit blows and battery must be replaced. If digitizer no longer functions properly these are all acceptable events for improper use. Explosions are not when the improper use is predictable. VZW sells the adapters to do it.
    That is on the cord manufacturers.

    It happens with USB A, micro USB, etc also.

    These batteries explode very easily.

    The recalled phones aren't because of the wrong charger. 24 phones as of the recall, possibly more now, were because of a battery fault that has nothing to do with cheap chargers.

    There are other phones that have blown up for cheap chargers and cords and they aren't C. C isn't the problem.
    09-04-2016 10:31 AM
  3. recDNA's Avatar
    I don't necessarily believe that USB C has to be backward compatible with micro usb cables. I kinda think the adapters were a bad idea for this very reason. Greedy cheap manufacturers are the problem here by making c cables that don't adhere to industry standards. I would never buy a cable from some knockoff company. I know others do though.
    Still it is entirely possible to build in safety circuitry to prevent explosions. It may make phone unusable, ruin battery, and void warranty but no excuse for explosion. You know as well as I if VZW didn't bat an eye selling me the adapter WITH the phone purchase that people will use it. I used blackberry chargers with Android phones for years. They were not spec. My phones did not explode.
    09-04-2016 10:31 AM
  4. recDNA's Avatar
    That is on the cord manufacturers.

    It happens with USB A, micro USB, etc also.

    These batteries explode very easily.

    The recalled phones aren't because of the wrong charger. 24 phones as of the recall, possibly more now, were because of a battery fault that has nothing to do with cheap chargers.

    There are other phones that have blown up for cheap chargers and cords and they aren't C. C isn't the problem.
    The batteries do explode easily making the safety circuit VERY important. It must literally be fool proof.
    09-04-2016 10:33 AM
  5. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Under the right conditions a lithium battery can explode very easily.

    That fact is the reason you can no longer ship lithium batteries on passenger flights.

    Companies used to ship them in the cargo of commercial flights and after several plane crashes caused by them exploding, that was stopped.
    09-04-2016 10:33 AM
  6. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    The batteries do explode easily making the safety circuit VERY important. It must literally be fool proof.
    You can not make it foolproof when a manufacturer makes cables that cause a problem.

    The only thing you can do is write in software that will not allow anything but Samsung to work.

    I sure don't want that.

    People have to be responsible for what they buy.
    09-04-2016 10:35 AM
  7. recDNA's Avatar
    Under the right conditions a lithium battery can explode very easily.

    That fact is the reason you can no longer ship lithium batteries on passenger flights.

    Companies used to ship them in the cargo of commercial flights and after several plane crashes caused by them exploding, that was stopped.
    Correct. If barbequed or poorly designed safety circuit fails. Batteries are often shipped without built in safety circuit. These are called unprotected batteries. Safety circuit can cut off current flow when battery is overcharged, undercharged, overheated, or even short circuited. Without these circuits the batteries are unstable.
    09-04-2016 10:36 AM
  8. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Correct. If barbequed or poorly designed safety circuit fails.
    Incorrect, without that problem.
    09-04-2016 10:36 AM
  9. msm0511's Avatar
    Still it is entirely possible to build in safety circuitry to prevent explosions. It may make phone unusable, ruin battery, and void warranty but no excuse for explosion. You know as well as I if VZW didn't bat an eye selling me the adapter WITH the phone purchase that people will use it. I used blackberry chargers with Android phones for years. They were not spec. My phones did not explode.
    This is the thing though. OEMs aren't responsible for what happens when you don't use approved accessories. For example, I'm sure the adapters are safe for use with Samsung micro USB cables. But why would Samsung or any other OEM be held responsible for people cheaping out and buying 12 cables for 3 dollars from a crappy company.

    And as Kelly mentioned, this recall is about battery faults, not cables. If it was due to using non-approved chargers Samsung wouldn't have had to do a worldwide recall. A statement from Samsung saying not to use unapproved accessories would be enough so they wouldn't be liable for problems.
    Kelly Kearns likes this.
    09-04-2016 10:38 AM
  10. recDNA's Avatar
    I said nothing about recalls. I am saying that built in hardware and software should prevent explosions even with bad cord or wallwart. Do you know how many crappy cables and wallwarts are used now in a plethora of phones yet hardly any blow up? It is because built in safety circuitry and software works as it should.

    Explosions occur when safety measures fail.

    The above applies when the batteries are fixed. I am saying that once back on the market these phones should not explode if used with an adapter and micro usb cable. It's fine if phone is ruined. It still should not explode.
    09-04-2016 10:41 AM
  11. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    This is the thing though. OEMs aren't responsible for what happens when you don't use approved accessories. For example, I'm sure the adapters are safe for use with Samsung micro USB cables. But why would Samsung or any other OEM be held responsible for people cheaping out and buying 12 cables for 3 dollars from a crappy company.

    And as Kelly mentioned, this recall is about battery faults, not cables. If it was due to using non-approved chargers Samsung wouldn't have had to do a worldwide recall. A statement from Samsung saying not to use unapproved accessories would be enough so they wouldn't be liable for problems.
    Exactly.. I can hook up my TV to my car battery and if it explodes, it is all my fault, not the fault of the TV or battery maker.

    I have actually seen a TV hooked up to a car battery on a football field, more than once.

    If that explodes and injures someone, the company shouldn't be responsible. Making companies responsible for what individuals do is why there is a warning on my hairdryer that says, "do not use while showering". If you need to be warned about that, your gene pool needs a serious chlorine shock treatment.
    msm0511 likes this.
    09-04-2016 10:44 AM
  12. recDNA's Avatar
    Exactly.. I can hook up my TV to my car battery and if it explodes, it is all my fault.

    I have actually seen a TV hooked up to a car battery on a football field, more than once.

    If that explodes and injures someone, the company shouldn't be responsible. Making companies responsible for what individuals do are why there is a warning on my hairdryer that says, "do not use while showering". If you need to be warned about that, your gene pool needs a serious chlorine shock treatment.
    Not at all a fair comparison. Android users are accustomed to interchanging cables and wallwarts uneventfully. Salesman in tv store does not offer car battery and connecting adapters and cables with tv.

    I knew USB C would be a pita.
    debdroid1a likes this.
    09-04-2016 10:46 AM
  13. Baby_Doc's Avatar
    Phones are built with safeguards to protect us against faulty non oem cables and chargers. If they weren't every phone manufacturer would have to have its own proprietary socket, to prevent you from using any but their own chargers. Not only that, but safeguards need to be present not to protect you from a defective new battery, but will also protect you from a battery that becomes faulty as it ages.
    debdroid1a likes this.
    09-04-2016 10:47 AM
  14. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Not at all a fair comparison. Android users are accustomed to interchanging cables and wallwarts uneventfully. Salesman in tv store does not offer car battery and connecting adapters and cables with tv.
    Yes it is a fair comparison.

    Samsung can not test their phone on every cheap accessory. The cheap accessory makers need to be forced to make it to spec.
    09-04-2016 10:48 AM
  15. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Phones are built with safeguards to protect us against faulty non oem cables and chargers. If they weren't every phone manufacturer would have to have its own proprietary socket, to prevent you from using any but their own chargers. Not only that, but safeguards need to be present not to protect you from a defective new battery, but will also protect you from a battery that becomes faulty as it ages.
    No they actually aren't. They can't protect from everything someone else makes.

    We have industry standards and people that don't meet them are the problem.

    The bigger problem is many buy very cheap Chinese ones that don't meet our standards and that is a problem.
    09-04-2016 10:50 AM
  16. msm0511's Avatar
    I said nothing about recalls. I am saying that built in hardware and software should prevent explosions even with bad cord or wallwart. Do you know how many crappy cables and wallwarts are used now in a plethora of phones yet hardly any blow up? It is because built in safety circuitry and software works as it should.

    Explosions occur when safety measures fail.

    The above applies when the batteries are fixed. I am saying that once back on the market these phones should not explode if used with an adapter and micro usb cable. It's fine if phone is ruined. It still should not explode.
    If an OEM were to do that they'd have to spend the time and money to make sure all available cables are safe to use. New phones would only be released every 3-5 years if that were the case. And what happens when somebody makes a cable after a phone is sold? The OEM can't be held accountable to update their software because some cheapo company decides to make a cable to sell at gas stations.
    Kelly Kearns likes this.
    09-04-2016 10:51 AM
  17. recDNA's Avatar
    Yes it is a fair comparison.

    Samsung can not test their phone on every cheap accessory. The cheap accessory makers need to be forced to make it to spec.
    They don't have to! Safety circuits should (and normally do) protect battery from over charge, undercharge, over voltage, under voltage, over current, over heating, even short circuiting. Safety measure should prevent explosions even with wrong cord. I connect my phone to car battery using VZW supplied cable. It doesn't explode.

    To be honest I believe they will with proper battery, hardware, and software and this discussion will be moot. I used a connector and generic wallwart and cable uneventfully in my N7. I suspect I did not get the one with the bad battery.
    09-04-2016 10:51 AM
  18. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    I said nothing about recalls. I am saying that built in hardware and software should prevent explosions even with bad cord or wallwart. Do you know how many crappy cables and wallwarts are used now in a plethora of phones yet hardly any blow up? It is because built in safety circuitry and software works as it should.

    Explosions occur when safety measures fail.

    The above applies when the batteries are fixed. I am saying that once back on the market these phones should not explode if used with an adapter and micro usb cable. It's fine if phone is ruined. It still should not explode.
    I think you don't realize how many phones do blow up.

    Again, no phone manufacturer can prepare for everything ever made it what will be made in the future. That is impossible.

    With the internet you can now actually buy direct from a company that doesn't meet industry standards. That is not the fault of the phone maker.

    No phone maker should be the babysitter for people. They have included the industry safety standards that are considered necessary and they tell you clearly, use only their approved products.

    They can't come to your house and charge your phone for you. There is a line where people have to take responsibility.
    09-04-2016 10:55 AM
  19. msm0511's Avatar
    Phones are built with safeguards to protect us against faulty non oem cables and chargers. If they weren't every phone manufacturer would have to have its own proprietary socket, to prevent you from using any but their own chargers. Not only that, but safeguards need to be present not to protect you from a defective new battery, but will also protect you from a battery that becomes faulty as it ages.
    But nothing can stop less reputable companies from producing copycat proprietary cables after the fact. I mean Apple makes lightning cables which are proprietary to iOS devices and are copyrighted to death. They did the MFI program to enable manufacturers make 3rd party cables that adhere to their standards. But how often do you see lightning cables sold at discount stores, gas stations, ebay, amazon, etc. that aren't MFI? Apple can't really do anything about that. I only bring up Apple b/c they do use a proprietary cable as you mentioned in your post.
    Kelly Kearns likes this.
    09-04-2016 10:56 AM
  20. recDNA's Avatar
    I think you don't realize how many phones do blow up.

    Again, no phone manufacturer can prepare for everything ever made it what will be made in the future. That is impossible.

    With the internet you can now actually buy direct from a company that doesn't meet industry standards. That is not the fault of the phone maker.

    No phone maker should be the babysitter for people. They have included the industry safety standards that are considered necessary and they tell you clearly, use only their approved products.

    They can't come to your house and charge your phone for you. There is a line where people have to take responsibility.
    Most blow up because of cheap replacement batteries lacking safety circuits that do not work properly with phone software and are unstable even when used and charged properly.
    09-04-2016 10:57 AM
  21. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    They don't have to! Safety circuits should (and normally do) protect battery from over charge, undercharge, over voltage, under voltage, over current, over heating, even short circuiting. Safety measure should prevent explosions even with wrong cord. I connect my phone to car battery using VZW supplied cable. It doesn't explode.

    To be honest I believe they will with proper battery, hardware, and software and this discussion will be moot. I used a connector and generic wallwart and cable uneventfully in my N7. I suspect I did not get the one with the bad battery.
    They all so that. They all have the safety measures.

    A TV does not have the safety measures to not explode of I hook it up to a car battery not does that battery have the safety measures to not explode.

    This is not a C charge ir Samsung issue.
    09-04-2016 10:57 AM
  22. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    They don't have to! Safety circuits should (and normally do) protect battery from over charge, undercharge, over voltage, under voltage, over current, over heating, even short circuiting. Safety measure should prevent explosions even with wrong cord. I connect my phone to car battery using VZW supplied cable. It doesn't explode.

    To be honest I believe they will with proper battery, hardware, and software and this discussion will be moot. I used a connector and generic wallwart and cable uneventfully in my N7. I suspect I did not get the one with the bad battery.
    Wait.. You have no idea about the battery. The bad battery has zero to do with a cheap charger.
    09-04-2016 10:58 AM
  23. recDNA's Avatar
    They all so that. They all have the safety measures.

    A TV does not have the safety measures to not explode of I hook it up to a car battery not does that battery have the safety measures to not explode.

    This is not a C charge ir Samsung issue.
    It is if explosions are more common with usb c used with adapters. I doubt they will be. This was and usuallybis a battery problem.
    09-04-2016 10:59 AM
  24. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    Most blow up because of cheap replacement batteries lacking safety circuits that do not work properly with phone software and are unstable even when used and charged properly.
    No they don't. IPhones have blown up.
    09-04-2016 10:59 AM
  25. Kelly Kearns's Avatar
    It is if explosions are more common with usb c used with adapters. I doubt they will be. This was and usuallybis a battery problem.
    It isn't more common with C it happens with micro.

    C will be the industry standard.
    09-04-2016 11:00 AM
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