Market driven demands-the cause of the recall

[BlackZeppelin]

Here's why Samsung Note 7 phones are catching fire - CNET
Here's why Samsung Note 7 phones are catching fire - CNET

It seems like ultimately, market driven demands are compromising the quality and safety of products, and not just mobile phones.

In the case of phones, the insatiable market demand that we have as high a capacity of battery as possible but as slim as possible is the root cause of what is ultimately a difficult and risky feat. Of the article I posted, it states how a battery is made by pressing together a series of plates. To make a battery high capacity but slim, these plates have to be pressed tightly. It is technically difficult, the pressure has to be just right. Not enough pressure and you don't have the right capacity for the battery size and thickness. Too much pressure and the anode and cathode come into contact as plastic film barriers break. This is what happened to the Note 7.

And all this difficult engineering feat because we all want slim phones without sacrificing battery capacity. When will all this insanity end? The Note 7 could have been made with a battery 1mm thicker which would have made it a lot easier to be manufactured safely.

It is these unrealistic market demands that is driving the manufacture of technically difficult critical components such as lithium ion batteries that leave no room for manufacturing error.

 

[ctt1wbw]

So you're blaming demand for the faulty batteries? Wow, how many people blamed the demand for the iPhone 6 that people were forcibly bending which led to bendgate?

 

[BlackZeppelin]

So you're blaming demand for the faulty batteries? Wow, how many people blamed the demand for the iPhone 6 that people were forcibly bending which led to bendgate?

Same thing and an excellent parallel. The demand for a sleek metal phone meant that with normal alloys, that particular iPhone bent easy. Apple had to upgrade to an aluminum magnesium alloy to make the phone that slim but not bend.

I am blaming UNREASONABLE demand. Also, you hardly ever hear of other products that are not fashion design driven, with lithium ion batteries that explode. For e.g., why is it things like phones, those infamous hover boards, laptops etc have these battery problems but not other things like cordless drills? There is no big market pressure for a cordless drill to be stylish and slim. It is easy to make a lithium battery for one safely.

But desirable and fashionable products are different. Our phones and laptops have to run for a decent amount of time on one charge whilst keeping the whole device slim. Hence the compromise of safety.

 

[ctt1wbw]

Same thing and an excellent parallel. The demand for a sleek metal phone meant that with normal alloys, that particular iPhone bent easy. Apple had to upgrade to an aluminum magnesium alloy to make the phone that slim but not bend.

I am blaming UNREASONABLE demand. Also, you hardly ever hear of other products that are not fashion design driven, with lithium ion batteries that explode. For e.g., why is it things like phones, those infamous hover boards, laptops etc have these battery problems but not other things like cordless drills? There is no big market pressure for a cordless drill to be stylish and slim. It is easy to make a lithium battery for one safely.

But desirable and fashionable products are different. Our phones and laptops have to run for a decent amount of time on one charge whilst keeping the whole device slim. Hence the compromise of safety.

The iPhone only bent if you forcibly bent it. I was kinda being a bit sarcastic there. Market demand doesn't make a phone bend or a battery catch fire and explode. My point was that Android fanboys blamed Apple for bend-gate, but I see some here are blaming the consumer for the Note 7 battery fiasco. Quick to constantly poke at Apple and defend their phone of choice. I've been seeing it for years and years, same attitude.

And before anyone starts in about how I'm a paid Apple shill and an iTard or what the **** ever, like typical Android fanboys do, I am using a Note 5.

 

[BlackZeppelin]

The iPhone only bent if you forcibly bent it. I was kinda being a bit sarcastic there. Market demand doesn't make a phone bend or a battery catch fire and explode.

You're not getting it. The market demands for unreasonably slim but high capacity phones makes it a technically difficult feat to produce a safe battery. It can be done and is done of course by the hundreds of millions each year. But as I say, it is technically difficult and leaves no room for any manufacturing error.

 

[BlackZeppelin]

Ad I said, all these battery explosions are in phones and laptops. You never hear of a battery in a cordless drill exploding. It's because drill manufacturers are not under the same pressure to make high capacity lithium ion batteries as slim as possible. Hence you can make one easily and safely.

 

[Averix]

Um, no. Batteries like this are produced with no explosive results all the time. This was a manufacturing goof, plain and simple. There are enough tin foil hats in the world. Let's not create more.

 

[BlackZeppelin]

Um, no. Batteries like this are produced with no explosive results all the time. This was a manufacturing goof, plain and simple. There are enough tin foil hats in the world. Let's not create more.

Equating a commentary on modern industrial design to some sort of alien nut job conspiracist? Aren't you the degrading and insulting one.

 

[BlackZeppelin]

"What does pressure have to do with it? MIT materials chemistry Professor Don Sadoway explains that today's cell phone batteries are made by literally pressing together a stack of battery components -- and that battery companies are under pressure (no pun intended) to cram in as much battery capacity as possible"

This is from that link I posted. How about think before you post insults.

 

[ctt1wbw]

You're not getting it. The market demands for unreasonably slim but high capacity phones makes it a technically difficult feat to produce a safe battery. It can be done and is done of course by the hundreds of millions each year. But as I say, it is technically difficult and leaves no room for any manufacturing error.

Unless you're actually IN the battery production business, you probably aren't qualified to make statements about how easy it is. Just saying.

 

[Averix]

Equating a commentary on modern industrial design to some sort of alien nut job conspiracist? Aren't you the degrading and insulting one.

I think you're setting up the nut job conspiracy thing quite well on your own. Mods, can we close this thread please?

 

[From A Buick 8]

You're not getting it. The market demands for unreasonably slim but high capacity phones makes it a technically difficult feat to produce a safe battery. It can be done and is done of course by the hundreds of millions each year. But as I say, it is technically difficult and leaves no room for any manufacturing error.

Must just be the people i hang around with, but i have never met anyone who said i wish my phone was more thin. I do meet people who want more battery life.

 

[jbcatl]

I used a 6+ for two years with minimal cases. It never bent. At the same time, a little thicker, heavier, more durable and better battery life wouldn't bother me in any device. If it stops fitting in my front jeans pocket then we have a problem.

 

[LegalAmerican]

The iPhone only bent if you forcibly bent it. I was kinda being a bit sarcastic there. Market demand doesn't make a phone bend or a battery catch fire and explode. My point was that Android fanboys blamed Apple for bend-gate, but I see some here are blaming the consumer for the Note 7 battery fiasco. Quick to constantly poke at Apple and defend their phone of choice. I've been seeing it for years and years, same attitude.

And before anyone starts in about how I'm a paid Apple shill and an iTard or what the **** ever, like typical Android fanboys do, I am using a Note 5.

I haven't seen anyone blame the consumer for the battery issue on the Note 7. Are you talking about people on other forums?

As far as the thin battery issue, almost everyone was saying they'd rather have a slightly thicker phone with a better battery. I know I would. I don't need my phone to be as thin as a sheet of paper, because that actually makes it harder to hold on to. Give me a little thicker phone with a better battery and I will never complain.

 

[Almeuit]

I don't think the thinness had anything to do with it. They simply messed up on these particular ones. That is why the new phones will have the same thin battery but .. won't have this issue.

 

[debdroid1a]

Ad I said, all these battery explosions are in phones and laptops. You never hear of a battery in a cordless drill exploding. It's because drill manufacturers are not under the same pressure to make high capacity lithium ion batteries as slim as possible. Hence you can make one easily and safely.

I guess people smoke too much because these same type of batteries are exploding in e-cigarettes.

 

[edubb256]

It seems like ultimately, market driven demands are compromising the quality and safety of products, and not just mobile phones.

I think you are almost half right. The market demands many attributes for products. Mobile phone buyers want them to be stylish, fast, and have longer battery life. They also want them to not catch fire. The case of the Note 7 is more about combination of insufficient focus on market demand for safe products and bad luck. I expect that going forward Samsung will have better understanding of market's demand for safe products and that will play a bigger role in their product design and manufacture.

 

[ctt1wbw]

I haven't seen anyone blame the consumer for the battery issue on the Note 7. Are you talking about people on other forums?

As far as the thin battery issue, almost everyone was saying they'd rather have a slightly thicker phone with a better battery. I know I would. I don't need my phone to be as thin as a sheet of paper, because that actually makes it harder to hold on to. Give me a little thicker phone with a better battery and I will never complain.

Did you not read the very first comment in the thread?

 

[akin_t]

Honestly who the hell cares?

 

[rushmore]

This article and their emphasis on pressure appears to be out of context. The pressure is more to do with the bonding process during cell build of the anode / cathode layers and the insulation between them. If the pressure is too much it "smooshes" the cell to the point of compromising the insulation between the anode cathode layers and perhaps the cell layers themselves. This can happen regardless of battery size to device footprint and not mutually inclusive to the problem.

The error also should have been caught during each production batch run within a few hundred cells. Still, why Samsung does not have a scanning process to link each cell to a specific battery during final production seems crazy. Beyond hundreds is nuts, yet alone hundreds of thousands or more.

The article seems off target. The design/size is not the problem, but the QC process (or lack of) most certainly is.