09-19-2016 08:53 AM
46 12
tools
  1. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    Here's why Samsung Note 7 phones are catching fire - CNET
    Here's why Samsung Note 7 phones are catching fire - CNET

    It seems like ultimately, market driven demands are compromising the quality and safety of products, and not just mobile phones.

    In the case of phones, the insatiable market demand that we have as high a capacity of battery as possible but as slim as possible is the root cause of what is ultimately a difficult and risky feat. Of the article I posted, it states how a battery is made by pressing together a series of plates. To make a battery high capacity but slim, these plates have to be pressed tightly. It is technically difficult, the pressure has to be just right. Not enough pressure and you don't have the right capacity for the battery size and thickness. Too much pressure and the anode and cathode come into contact as plastic film barriers break. This is what happened to the Note 7.

    And all this difficult engineering feat because we all want slim phones without sacrificing battery capacity. When will all this insanity end? The Note 7 could have been made with a battery 1mm thicker which would have made it a lot easier to be manufactured safely.

    It is these unrealistic market demands that is driving the manufacture of technically difficult critical components such as lithium ion batteries that leave no room for manufacturing error.
    09-16-2016 01:04 AM
  2. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    So you're blaming demand for the faulty batteries? Wow, how many people blamed the demand for the iPhone 6 that people were forcibly bending which led to bendgate?
    Averix, sweetypie31 and debdroid1a like this.
    09-16-2016 01:15 AM
  3. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    So you're blaming demand for the faulty batteries? Wow, how many people blamed the demand for the iPhone 6 that people were forcibly bending which led to bendgate?
    Same thing and an excellent parallel. The demand for a sleek metal phone meant that with normal alloys, that particular iPhone bent easy. Apple had to upgrade to an aluminum magnesium alloy to make the phone that slim but not bend.

    I am blaming UNREASONABLE demand. Also, you hardly ever hear of other products that are not fashion design driven, with lithium ion batteries that explode. For e.g., why is it things like phones, those infamous hover boards, laptops etc have these battery problems but not other things like cordless drills? There is no big market pressure for a cordless drill to be stylish and slim. It is easy to make a lithium battery for one safely.

    But desirable and fashionable products are different. Our phones and laptops have to run for a decent amount of time on one charge whilst keeping the whole device slim. Hence the compromise of safety.
    09-16-2016 01:44 AM
  4. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    Same thing and an excellent parallel. The demand for a sleek metal phone meant that with normal alloys, that particular iPhone bent easy. Apple had to upgrade to an aluminum magnesium alloy to make the phone that slim but not bend.

    I am blaming UNREASONABLE demand. Also, you hardly ever hear of other products that are not fashion design driven, with lithium ion batteries that explode. For e.g., why is it things like phones, those infamous hover boards, laptops etc have these battery problems but not other things like cordless drills? There is no big market pressure for a cordless drill to be stylish and slim. It is easy to make a lithium battery for one safely.

    But desirable and fashionable products are different. Our phones and laptops have to run for a decent amount of time on one charge whilst keeping the whole device slim. Hence the compromise of safety.
    The iPhone only bent if you forcibly bent it. I was kinda being a bit sarcastic there. Market demand doesn't make a phone bend or a battery catch fire and explode. My point was that Android fanboys blamed Apple for bend-gate, but I see some here are blaming the consumer for the Note 7 battery fiasco. Quick to constantly poke at Apple and defend their phone of choice. I've been seeing it for years and years, same attitude.

    And before anyone starts in about how I'm a paid Apple shill and an iTard or what the **** ever, like typical Android fanboys do, I am using a Note 5.
    Averix likes this.
    09-16-2016 01:52 AM
  5. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    The iPhone only bent if you forcibly bent it. I was kinda being a bit sarcastic there. Market demand doesn't make a phone bend or a battery catch fire and explode.
    You're not getting it. The market demands for unreasonably slim but high capacity phones makes it a technically difficult feat to produce a safe battery. It can be done and is done of course by the hundreds of millions each year. But as I say, it is technically difficult and leaves no room for any manufacturing error.
    09-16-2016 01:58 AM
  6. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    Ad I said, all these battery explosions are in phones and laptops. You never hear of a battery in a cordless drill exploding. It's because drill manufacturers are not under the same pressure to make high capacity lithium ion batteries as slim as possible. Hence you can make one easily and safely.
    09-16-2016 02:01 AM
  7. Averix's Avatar
    Um, no. Batteries like this are produced with no explosive results all the time. This was a manufacturing goof, plain and simple. There are enough tin foil hats in the world. Let's not create more.
    09-16-2016 02:13 AM
  8. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    Um, no. Batteries like this are produced with no explosive results all the time. This was a manufacturing goof, plain and simple. There are enough tin foil hats in the world. Let's not create more.
    Equating a commentary on modern industrial design to some sort of alien nut job conspiracist? Aren't you the degrading and insulting one.
    09-16-2016 02:22 AM
  9. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    "What does pressure have to do with it? MIT materials chemistry Professor Don Sadoway explains that today's cell phone batteries are made by literally pressing together a stack of battery components -- and that battery companies are under pressure (no pun intended) to cram in as much battery capacity as possible"

    This is from that link I posted. How about think before you post insults.
    09-16-2016 02:26 AM
  10. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    You're not getting it. The market demands for unreasonably slim but high capacity phones makes it a technically difficult feat to produce a safe battery. It can be done and is done of course by the hundreds of millions each year. But as I say, it is technically difficult and leaves no room for any manufacturing error.
    Unless you're actually IN the battery production business, you probably aren't qualified to make statements about how easy it is. Just saying.
    Averix likes this.
    09-16-2016 02:54 AM
  11. Averix's Avatar
    Equating a commentary on modern industrial design to some sort of alien nut job conspiracist? Aren't you the degrading and insulting one.
    I think you're setting up the nut job conspiracy thing quite well on your own. Mods, can we close this thread please?
    Cary Quinn and Wiley_11 like this.
    09-16-2016 04:17 AM
  12. From A Buick 8's Avatar
    You're not getting it. The market demands for unreasonably slim but high capacity phones makes it a technically difficult feat to produce a safe battery. It can be done and is done of course by the hundreds of millions each year. But as I say, it is technically difficult and leaves no room for any manufacturing error.
    Must just be the people i hang around with, but i have never met anyone who said i wish my phone was more thin. I do meet people who want more battery life.
    mojook and Averix like this.
    09-16-2016 04:44 AM
  13. jbcatl's Avatar
    I used a 6+ for two years with minimal cases. It never bent. At the same time, a little thicker, heavier, more durable and better battery life wouldn't bother me in any device. If it stops fitting in my front jeans pocket then we have a problem.
    09-16-2016 09:29 AM
  14. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    The iPhone only bent if you forcibly bent it. I was kinda being a bit sarcastic there. Market demand doesn't make a phone bend or a battery catch fire and explode. My point was that Android fanboys blamed Apple for bend-gate, but I see some here are blaming the consumer for the Note 7 battery fiasco. Quick to constantly poke at Apple and defend their phone of choice. I've been seeing it for years and years, same attitude.

    And before anyone starts in about how I'm a paid Apple shill and an iTard or what the **** ever, like typical Android fanboys do, I am using a Note 5.
    I haven't seen anyone blame the consumer for the battery issue on the Note 7. Are you talking about people on other forums?

    As far as the thin battery issue, almost everyone was saying they'd rather have a slightly thicker phone with a better battery. I know I would. I don't need my phone to be as thin as a sheet of paper, because that actually makes it harder to hold on to. Give me a little thicker phone with a better battery and I will never complain.
    toenail_flicker likes this.
    09-16-2016 09:48 AM
  15. Almeuit's Avatar
    I don't think the thinness had anything to do with it. They simply messed up on these particular ones. That is why the new phones will have the same thin battery but .. won't have this issue.
    rushmore and Cary Quinn like this.
    09-16-2016 10:05 AM
  16. debdroid1a's Avatar
    Ad I said, all these battery explosions are in phones and laptops. You never hear of a battery in a cordless drill exploding. It's because drill manufacturers are not under the same pressure to make high capacity lithium ion batteries as slim as possible. Hence you can make one easily and safely.
    I guess people smoke too much because these same type of batteries are exploding in e-cigarettes.
    Cary Quinn likes this.
    09-16-2016 10:23 AM
  17. edubb256's Avatar
    It seems like ultimately, market driven demands are compromising the quality and safety of products, and not just mobile phones.
    I think you are almost half right. The market demands many attributes for products. Mobile phone buyers want them to be stylish, fast, and have longer battery life. They also want them to not catch fire. The case of the Note 7 is more about combination of insufficient focus on market demand for safe products and bad luck. I expect that going forward Samsung will have better understanding of market's demand for safe products and that will play a bigger role in their product design and manufacture.
    Viscomi4444 likes this.
    09-16-2016 12:54 PM
  18. ctt1wbw's Avatar
    I haven't seen anyone blame the consumer for the battery issue on the Note 7. Are you talking about people on other forums?

    As far as the thin battery issue, almost everyone was saying they'd rather have a slightly thicker phone with a better battery. I know I would. I don't need my phone to be as thin as a sheet of paper, because that actually makes it harder to hold on to. Give me a little thicker phone with a better battery and I will never complain.
    Did you not read the very first comment in the thread?
    09-17-2016 12:15 PM
  19. akin_t's Avatar
    Honestly who the hell cares?
    09-17-2016 12:19 PM
  20. rushmore's Avatar
    This article and their emphasis on pressure appears to be out of context. The pressure is more to do with the bonding process during cell build of the anode / cathode layers and the insulation between them. If the pressure is too much it "smooshes" the cell to the point of compromising the insulation between the anode cathode layers and perhaps the cell layers themselves. This can happen regardless of battery size to device footprint and not mutually inclusive to the problem.

    The error also should have been caught during each production batch run within a few hundred cells. Still, why Samsung does not have a scanning process to link each cell to a specific battery during final production seems crazy. Beyond hundreds is nuts, yet alone hundreds of thousands or more.

    The article seems off target. The design/size is not the problem, but the QC process (or lack of) most certainly is.
    09-17-2016 12:38 PM
  21. Cary Quinn's Avatar

    The error also should have been caught during each production batch run within a few hundred cells. Still, why Samsung does not have a scanning process to link each cell to a specific battery during final production seems crazy. Beyond hundreds is nuts, yet alone hundreds of thousands or more.

    The article seems off target. The design/size is not the problem, but the QC process (or lack of) most certainly is.
    Actually I would think they do have such a scanning process, because this issue has not come up with the S7 or Note 5 before.

    So, it would appear something in the QC process missed a new type of defect, or something in later assembly caused a problem that was not covered in the previous test phases.
    09-17-2016 02:44 PM
  22. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    Much good will come out of this Note 7 fiasco. In fact, I look forward to future Samsung flagships based upon observations in the past.

    From the original Galaxy to S4, Samsung reigned supreme, keeping the same overall look and plastic body (which I still prefer, but that is a discussion for another thread). Then came the S5 and profits declined for the first time with criticisms of cheap plastic and little design change.

    Samsung listened. The S6 came out with a gorgeous premium body but there were new criticisms, ( no SD slot etc ).

    Samsung listened. The S7 came out and addressed all issues except the removable battery, but that had settled down to general acceptance.

    The Note 7 came out and Samsung fumbled with quality control. I guarantee, Samsung will do as they have done in the past and they will learn and listen. They will do more quality checks for not only the battery obviously, but other issues like lag, signal reception etc.

    We will all benefit greatly later on. Future Samsung phones will have a lot more testing and quality control. No more rushing into production, no more putting futuristic features like an iris scanner whilst suffering the basics such as lesser signal reception and sporadic performance.

    I for one look forward to upgrading to a future Samsung phone to reap the lessons of the Note 7.
    09-17-2016 11:32 PM
  23. Carlo Villa's Avatar
    This was a lesson not only for Samsung (thank God for their deep pockets) but for all companies. I can't wait what Samsung has in stored for us.
    Jude526 likes this.
    09-18-2016 05:05 AM
  24. suitebliss's Avatar
    Much good will come out of this Note 7 fiasco. In fact, I look forward to future Samsung flagships based upon observations in the past.

    From the original Galaxy to S4, Samsung reigned supreme, keeping the same overall look and plastic body (which I still prefer, but that is a discussion for another thread). Then came the S5 and profits declined for the first time with criticisms of cheap plastic and little design change.

    Samsung listened. The S6 came out with a gorgeous premium body but there were new criticisms, ( no SD slot etc ).

    Samsung listened. The S7 came out and addressed all issues except the removable battery, but that had settled down to general acceptance.

    The Note 7 came out and Samsung fumbled with quality control. I guarantee, Samsung will do as they have done in the past and they will learn and listen. They will do more quality checks for not only the battery obviously, but other issues like lag, signal reception etc.

    We will all benefit greatly later on. Future Samsung phones will have a lot more testing and quality control. No more rushing into production, no more putting futuristic features like an iris scanner whilst suffering the basics such as lesser signal reception and sporadic performance.

    I for one look forward to upgrading to a future Samsung phone to reap the lessons of the Note 7.
    Samsung listens........a lesson Apple could learn. I'm switching and won't return to Apple until they decide to add some creativity to their phones.
    Carlo Villa likes this.
    09-18-2016 05:34 AM
  25. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    This was a lesson not only for Samsung (thank God for their deep pockets) but for all companies. I can't wait what Samsung has in stored for us.
    Me too. I will be excited to see if Samsung really up their game on the S8 and Note 8 and give the public (besides the great displays and features) vastly improved quality control and consistent high standards of basics such as software performance, signal strength, battery life etc.

    Sure, some people have good units, but it seems to be a hit or miss affair with the Note 7. IPhones tend to have a reputation of consistent good performance and I can see Samsung aiming for this too in future products.

    Samsung already have a reputation for innovation, technology, best in class displays, top of the pile cameras etc. If Samsung can also up their game on quality control and consistent high performance in the basics of smartphones, they will be the number 1 phone maker again.
    suitebliss likes this.
    09-18-2016 05:38 AM
46 12

Similar Threads

  1. Enlarging the screen size when typing a text?
    By anken in forum Samsung Galaxy S7
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-30-2018, 06:54 AM
  2. Got my email from Otterbox about the Defender.
    By russel5150 in forum Samsung Galaxy Note 7 Cases & Accessories
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-21-2016, 04:11 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-16-2016, 01:45 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-16-2016, 01:40 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD