07-30-2020 01:16 PM
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  1. Casualballer's Avatar
    To me, though, buying the Pixel 2 thr following April, six months after release, still meant that I had a flagship. And I thonk that even though time passes, you're *still* buying a flagship - it just may be six months old or last year's flagship.
    it's not like it used to be where every six months, there was a genuinely impactful difference in the power and performance of the phone. Six months ago flagships or last years still punches way above what the average person actually needs. The performance benefits that the 865 provide over the 855 are not felt in normal usage, even though there is a measurable difference in bemchmarks. In many cases even if you push the phone to the max there won't be much of a difference. The chips are more powerful now then the software could ever really needs.
    Optimization is now the name of the game. Cooling techniques to enable longer peak use of the chip set or things of the like is where differences could be found but aside from some unique phones out in China, that's not really something any manufacturer is experimenting with. All that is to say that last year's flagship provides a similar flagship level user experience to pretty much anyone. * End rant *
    Morty2264 likes this.
    07-12-2020 06:53 PM
  2. Mike Dee's Avatar
    which is why Apple spends billions on chip research, which is why they use their own in-house chips for iPhones, and which is why they're dumping Intel in exchange for their own in-house chips on their computers. Apple has ARM chips that sip power--which means the batteries can be smaller--and yet which provide significantly better performance than anything else on the market. It's a one-two punch.

    Meanwhile, Android makers just goes the brute force route. The chips get more powerful, which means they need more power, which means the batteries need to be bigger, which means the phone needs to be bigger.

    And that sucks.
    I don't use my iPhone as much as my Android because it's my work phone but it does last, especially on standby. My wife and my daughter can kill an iPhone battery pretty quickly though.
    07-12-2020 08:22 PM
  3. Mike Dee's Avatar
    To me, though, buying the Pixel 2 thr following April, six months after release, still meant that I had a flagship. And I thonk that even though time passes, you're *still* buying a flagship - it just may be six months old or last year's flagship.
    Exactly....though I hate the term, a flagship is a flagship even if it's not brand new.
    gendo667 and Morty2264 like this.
    07-12-2020 08:24 PM
  4. Casualballer's Avatar
    Exactly....though I hate the term, a flagship is a flagship even if it's not brand new.
    How long does the term still aplly for? Is a galaxy S7 still called a flagship?
    07-12-2020 08:33 PM
  5. Adam Frix's Avatar
    I don't use my iPhone as much as my Android because it's my work phone but it does last, especially on standby. My wife and my daughter can kill an iPhone battery pretty quickly though.
    That in and of itself is meaningless. So they use their phones a lot.

    Tell us what would happen if they had Samsung phones. That'll tell all. If the Samsung phone lasted 2/3 the time of the iPhone under their usage, I would be shocked.
    07-12-2020 08:49 PM
  6. Adam Frix's Avatar
    How long does the term still aplly for? Is a galaxy S7 still called a flagship?
    Maybe we should call them cougars.
    07-12-2020 08:50 PM
  7. Mike Dee's Avatar
    How long does the term still aplly for? Is a galaxy S7 still called a flagship?
    I think the discussion was about prior verses current models, but there are no term limits. Obviously an S7 would be outclassed by a more modern device but that doesn't change what the S7 started out to be.
    Morty2264 likes this.
    07-12-2020 08:56 PM
  8. Mike Dee's Avatar
    That in and of itself is meaningless. So they use their phones a lot.

    Tell us what would happen if they had Samsung phones. That'll tell all. If the Samsung phone lasted 2/3 the time of the iPhone under their usage, I would be shocked.
    Since they won't use anything but an iPhone, I can't speak to an unknowns or hypotheticals. I do know I use my Samsung's alot and I get though most of the day. There's no doubt in my mind that iPhone stretches battery life further especially standby time. I've already acknowledged that. As good as they are at being stingy on batteries, they are still making big devices.
    07-12-2020 09:09 PM
  9. mustang7757's Avatar
    Maybe we should call them cougars.
    Cougars?
    07-12-2020 09:39 PM
  10. Morty2264's Avatar
    it's not like it used to be where every six months, there was a genuinely impactful difference in the power and performance of the phone. Six months ago flagships or last years still punches way above what the average person actually needs. The performance benefits that the 865 provide over the 855 are not felt in normal usage, even though there is a measurable difference in bemchmarks. In many cases even if you push the phone to the max there won't be much of a difference. The chips are more powerful now then the software could ever really needs.
    Optimization is now the name of the game. Cooling techniques to enable longer peak use of the chip set or things of the like is where differences could be found but aside from some unique phones out in China, that's not really something any manufacturer is experimenting with. All that is to say that last year's flagship provides a similar flagship level user experience to pretty much anyone. * End rant *
    I completely agree with you. There are users who won't push their flagships to the next level and won't even notice a difference with the processors. I've owned midrange- and flagship-level phones and never really saw a difference - or maybe I never looked for one.

    In any case, I definitely would recommend last year's flagship - like an S10, for example - to someone over a "new" flagship, like an S20 - especially if they wanted a flagship-level experience but didn't want or need the latest chip.

    There were even quite a few cases when I actually preferred last year's flagship over current ones - like the Pixel 3 versus the Pixel 4; the S10 versus the S20; the LG G6 over the LG G7 ThinQ. Current doesn't always mean best, especially when one-year gaps aren't always enough to showcase new additions to specs and features.
    07-13-2020 10:06 AM
  11. Stefan Sobol's Avatar
    I only get phones that my carrier gives away for free.
    07-13-2020 12:13 PM
  12. Mike Dee's Avatar
    I only get phones that my carrier gives away for free.
    Thanks for sharing
    gendo667 likes this.
    07-13-2020 01:07 PM
  13. Casualballer's Avatar
    I completely agree with you. There are users who won't push their flagships to the next level and won't even notice a difference with the processors. I've owned midrange- and flagship-level phones and never really saw a difference - or maybe I never looked for one.

    In any case, I definitely would recommend last year's flagship - like an S10, for example - to someone over a "new" flagship, like an S20 - especially if they wanted a flagship-level experience but didn't want or need the latest chip.

    There were even quite a few cases when I actually preferred last year's flagship over current ones - like the Pixel 3 versus the Pixel 4; the S10 versus the S20; the LG G6 over the LG G7 ThinQ. Current doesn't always mean best, especially when one-year gaps aren't always enough to showcase new additions to specs and features.
    In theory the differences could be found in regards to future proofing. That's often a rationale for sticking gobs of RAM into phones when it provides no practical benefits in the here and now. That being said, if the phones are only being supported for 2 years, then the power is still above that threshold. There's no reason the s20 ultra which is literally as powerful as many laptops should only get 2 years of updates. The OS doesn't advance that much in 2 years to require the insane amount of future proofing the s20 ultra provides.
    Morty2264 likes this.
    07-13-2020 01:32 PM
  14. Adam Frix's Avatar
    In any case, I definitely would recommend last year's flagship - like an S10, for example - to someone over a "new" flagship, like an S20 - especially if they wanted a flagship-level experience but didn't want or need the latest chip.
    All this focus on the chip and bits and bytes and speeds and feeds takes away from the REAL concern: support for the ever-expanding radio frequencies and communication technologies that are showing up every day.

    T-Mobile is one of the biggest "offenders" here, but they're all scrambling to update the communication technologies and protocols. A couple of the absolute BEST reasons to do midrange phones are: (1) midrange performance today is better than flagship performance even only a couple of generations ago, and (b) you can more easily afford to get new midrange phones every year or so in order to keep up with new communication technologies.

    I'm a T-Mobile user, so maybe I'm a little more sensitive than most to being left out in the cold with a phone that doesn't support what band T-Mo has turned to this week.
    Morty2264 likes this.
    07-13-2020 02:35 PM
  15. Theot's Avatar
    I usually buy at least six months later. Some kind of price drop or trade in deal to get me to bite because I'm done paying full price. I got my pixel 4XL for $600 back in May and I just ordered an S20 because I got $400 instant credit for my pixel 3 on trade.
    gendo667 and Morty2264 like this.
    07-13-2020 06:46 PM
  16. Adam Frix's Avatar
    I have to admit, I got into the S9+ in May. After the March (?) launch, the wireless kiosk at Costco was having a smoking deal. Coincidentally, the screen fell off on my BB KEYone (as they all did) that Saturday. No brainer.

    So anyway, yeah, sometimes waiting 3-6 months is the key.

    (I got the BB fixed, and still have it...)
    gendo667 and Morty2264 like this.
    07-13-2020 06:53 PM
  17. Morty2264's Avatar
    All this focus on the chip and bits and bytes and speeds and feeds takes away from the REAL concern: support for the ever-expanding radio frequencies and communication technologies that are showing up every day.

    T-Mobile is one of the biggest "offenders" here, but they're all scrambling to update the communication technologies and protocols. A couple of the absolute BEST reasons to do midrange phones are: (1) midrange performance today is better than flagship performance even only a couple of generations ago, and (b) you can more easily afford to get new midrange phones every year or so in order to keep up with new communication technologies.

    I'm a T-Mobile user, so maybe I'm a little more sensitive than most to being left out in the cold with a phone that doesn't support what band T-Mo has turned to this week.
    I absolutely agree with you. Mid-range phones are powerhouses today and I've had great experiences using them as my daily driver. They're definitely nothing to sneeze at (especially now!); and you're right in that they make your wallet not as empty as it could be with the higher price tags of flagships these days. I loved my Honor 8 so much that I considered the Honor 9 before getting the Pixel 2.
    TgeekB likes this.
    07-14-2020 08:02 AM
  18. Morty2264's Avatar
    In theory the differences could be found in regards to future proofing. That's often a rationale for sticking gobs of RAM into phones when it provides no practical benefits in the here and now. That being said, if the phones are only being supported for 2 years, then the power is still above that threshold. There's no reason the s20 ultra which is literally as powerful as many laptops should only get 2 years of updates. The OS doesn't advance that much in 2 years to require the insane amount of future proofing the s20 ultra provides.
    You do have a point about future-proofing. With how expensive and powerful smartphones are today, you'd think and hope that they would stand the test of time...
    07-14-2020 08:03 AM
  19. Casualballer's Avatar
    You do have a point about future-proofing. With how expensive and powerful smartphones are today, you'd think and hope that they would stand the test of time...
    What would it take to see a shift in software support length from manufacturers? Consumer pressure ought to do it but their doesn't seem to be enough awareness on the importance for the Joe average consumer
    07-19-2020 08:44 AM
  20. Adam Frix's Avatar
    The only way to win is not to play the game.

    Remember when you owned the computer, and you could stay on whatever OS you wanted for whatever reason you wanted? Phones gave Big Tech the opportunity to shift that paradigm, and convince people that that's not how it works anymore. So now we have phones that expire.

    And now Big Tech has shifted that to desktop computers. And the software developers have played right along with it. You want to run TurboTax on a Macintosh? You'd best be on current or previous two OS versions, otherwise screw you. (And there's PLENTY of reason not to be on current OS, and many other reasons to be three or more versions behind.)

    Quit playing the games Big Tech puts out there. Those games are for THEIR benefit, not yours.

    When I retire, I can see a flip phone in my life. It's OK to be simple. Phone calls and texts--perfect. Email and maps--great to have. Other than that...
    BerryBubbles likes this.
    07-19-2020 08:55 AM
  21. the_boon's Avatar
    Very interesting thread - thank you for posting! I *sort of* follow your notion: I'll buy a flagship maybe six to eight months after its launch.
    It's a smart move because flagships lose a ton of value the first year of release.
    Morty2264 and Grabber5.0 like this.
    07-19-2020 09:03 AM
  22. the_boon's Avatar
    which is why Apple spends billions on chip research, which is why they use their own in-house chips for iPhones, and which is why they're dumping Intel in exchange for their own in-house chips on their computers. Apple has ARM chips that sip power--which means the batteries can be smaller--and yet which provide significantly better performance than anything else on the market. It's a one-two punch.

    Meanwhile, Android makers just goes the brute force route. The chips get more powerful, which means they need more power, which means the batteries need to be bigger, which means the phone needs to be bigger.

    And that sucks.
    It sucks when manufacturers negatively compensate for amazing efficiency with tiny batteries, instead of giving us both...so no matter what you end up with a 1 day battery.
    07-19-2020 09:05 AM
  23. the_boon's Avatar
    Exactly....though I hate the term, a flagship is a flagship even if it's not brand new.
    Which is why the title for some follow up reviews like "is X flagship still worth it after 6 months?" are extremely stupid.

    But hey, I guess they aren't good enough for OnePlus since they can't stop churning phones every 6 months.
    07-19-2020 09:07 AM
  24. the_boon's Avatar
    How long does the term still aplly for? Is a galaxy S7 still called a flagship?
    Well, it does have some features (wireless charging, IP67 rating) that alot of midrangers even today don't have both of them.
    07-19-2020 09:09 AM
  25. Adam Frix's Avatar
    Exactly....though I hate the term, a flagship is a flagship even if it's not brand new.
    So, my Galaxy S3 from 2013 is still a flagship?

    Times change, and so does the technology. If I fired up that S3, it's not a flagship anymore.

    The Navy will tell you, what was a flagship is no longer a flagship today.
    07-19-2020 09:33 AM
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