01-29-2021 10:09 AM
27 12
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  1. ironass's Avatar
    Despite Google mandating that all phones launched on Android 11 must support the A/B partition for Seamless Updating, the Galaxy S21 series of devices will not be featuring this, IMHO, useful feature. See...

    https://9to5google.com/2021/01/24/sa...dates-feature/

    In a nutshell, Seamless Updates allowed the latest firmware update to be downloaded in a separate partition whilst the user carried on until the phone was ready to update by rebooting using the new firmware's partition instead of the previous partition. It makes updating very clean, simple and easy. OnePlus for instance, have been using it for a number of years.

    Google threatened last year that new Android 11 phones, onwards, that did not support A/B partitioning could not be updated in future.

    However, Google has back pedalled on this demand and the Galaxy S21 series of phones will continue to feature the usual system update.

    For more information on Seamless Updates, Project Treble and A/B partitions, see the explanation from xda developers...

    https://www.xda-developers.com/googl...es-android-11/

    Also, a simplified explanation from Computerworld...

    https://www.computerworld.com/articl...he%20OS%20code
    mustang7757 likes this.
    01-26-2021 11:23 AM
  2. mustang7757's Avatar
    They been talking about Samsung doing this since s8 or s9 series and nothing developed not sure why Samsung holding off .
    ironass likes this.
    01-26-2021 11:40 AM
  3. fuzzylumpkin's Avatar
    Yeah i was pretty pissed off when i read about this the other day.

    I won't say I wouldn't have bought the phone if I'd known, but I did check whether this was actually something Google stuck to and all the info was affirmative. Until it wasn't.

    It's an incredibly useful feature and it's shameful that Samsung didn't include it and just as shameful that Google didn't force them.

    Still kinda hoping it isn't true...
    ironass likes this.
    01-26-2021 11:42 AM
  4. bill-e's Avatar
    My inexpensive Moto has had that for a while and it is convenient but you still have to reboot to install so downloading and then rebooting isn't a big deal to me
    01-26-2021 02:02 PM
  5. Johnson21x's Avatar
    Did i miss something? I could always download updates in the background and continue using my phone until its ready to install, in which i have to reboot anyways.

    I know with seamless updates its alot safer and there is less chance of corruption.

    At least samsung updates phones faster nowadays which is what i really care about.
    1raygin and Ragnarianrok like this.
    01-26-2021 02:12 PM
  6. Gary02468's Avatar
    Did i miss something? I could always download updates in the background and continue using my phone until its ready to install, [when] i have to reboot anyways.
    If I understand correctly, the difference is that a plain reboot takes only a minute, whereas a reboot for a non-seamless update takes three or four minutes. So there's an extra few minutes of downtime per month.

    I know with seamless updates it[']s a[ ]lot safer and there is less chance of corruption.
    In principle, but I don't think I've ever gotten a corrupt update.
    Johnson21x likes this.
    01-26-2021 02:25 PM
  7. fuzzylumpkin's Avatar
    Did i miss something? I could always download updates in the background and continue using my phone until its ready to install, in which i have to reboot anyways.

    I know with seamless updates its alot safer and there is less chance of corruption.

    At least samsung updates phones faster nowadays which is what i really care about.
    You did, they also install in the background with seamless updates. No waiting around with an Android on the screen for 15 minutes.
    Johnson21x likes this.
    01-26-2021 02:28 PM
  8. fuzzylumpkin's Avatar


    In principle, but I don't think I've ever gotten a corrupt update.
    Well, then you must be immune! You'll never get a corrupt update!
    01-26-2021 02:35 PM
  9. Stanley Kubrick's Avatar
    Since Samsung is the biggest Android phone maker (possibly in the world) and Google makes money off of Android in more ways than one, the last thing they're going to do is try to "force" Samsung to do anything. The last thing Google needs is for Samsung to feel offended and create their own OS to compete with Android! Talk about a Google booger!
    Johnson21x likes this.
    01-26-2021 03:03 PM
  10. Gary02468's Avatar
    Well, then you must be immune! You'll never get a corrupt update!
    The probability is small but nonzero.
    01-26-2021 03:06 PM
  11. mustang7757's Avatar
    I haven't run into corrupt update myself, but it can happen .
    01-26-2021 03:21 PM
  12. jlangner's Avatar
    US version still has from what I read
    01-26-2021 03:49 PM
  13. Gayle Lynn's Avatar
    Patching apps is not a perfect method. Sometimes you ever found uninstalling an app then do a full install helps?
    Also, writing to any form of media thwere is even if small, a chance for error.
    Does every app pley nice with the update?
    Remember the talk of having a second boot partition? And apply update to alternate "B" partition?
    It takesmy phone a long time to update and optimize the 75 apps installed. The phone will warm up a bit too with all that is happening.
    Samsung has found the need to pull an update for a specific phone model. Check Sammobile.com

    https://www.sammobile.com/news/galax...pdate-resumed/
    01-26-2021 03:51 PM
  14. kjjb0204's Avatar
    Three things. 1. Never had a bad update. 2. This really only matters to the people who would join forums to talk about it. I asked my wife and she was like, um, don't give two figs about how quickly I get updates. They come when they come. 3. If you can't wait an extra 15 minutes per update as someone mentioned above, you've got bigger problems. I mean, just set the update to run at 3 in the morning and you'll never even notice the time it takes.
    Johnson21x and jlangner like this.
    01-26-2021 03:52 PM
  15. fuzzylumpkin's Avatar
    Three things. 1. Never had a bad update. 2. This really only matters to the people who would join forums to talk about it. I asked my wife and she was like, um, don't give two figs about how quickly I get updates. They come when they come. 3. If you can't wait an extra 15 minutes per update as someone mentioned above, you've got bigger problems. I mean, just set the update to run at 3 in the morning and you'll never even notice the time it takes.
    But why would you WANT to wait 15 minutes when you shouldn't have to? Why invent the lightbulb when candles are fine why use a washing machine them there's a perfectly good bathtub in your house?

    It's a better solution to a current technology.

    Honestly I'm sick of seeing the "well I haven't experienced X" argument, it's so ridiculously stupid.
    I've never had cancer, so clearly cancer can't be a problem, right?
    01-26-2021 04:12 PM
  16. kjjb0204's Avatar
    But why would you WANT to wait 15 minutes when you shouldn't have to? Why invent the lightbulb when candles are fine why use a washing machine them there's a perfectly good bathtub in your house?

    It's a better solution to a current technology.

    Honestly I'm sick of seeing the "well I haven't experienced X" argument, it's so ridiculously stupid.
    I've never had cancer, so clearly cancer can't be a problem, right?
    Why not just set it to do it when you're sleeping? I mean, I don't leave candles burning or lights on when I go to sleep. As far as having never experienced it, I'm sure it happens and I'm sure it's a super hassle, but I would guess the overwhelming majority of users have never had issues. These forums amplify every little glitch and issue due to their very nature of being for enthusiasts who are more likely to pick something apart. You should see the people over on the Dodge Durango forums. Those people are INSANE with their need for perfection on these rigs.
    Johnson21x likes this.
    01-26-2021 04:19 PM
  17. fuzzylumpkin's Avatar
    Why not just set it to do it when you're sleeping? I mean, I don't leave candles burning or lights on when I go to sleep. As far as having never experienced it, I'm sure it happens and I'm sure it's a super hassle, but I would guess the overwhelming majority of users have never had issues. These forums amplify every little glitch and issue due to their very nature of being for enthusiasts who are more likely to pick something apart. You should see the people over on the Dodge Durango forums. Those people are INSANE with their need for perfection on these rigs.
    It's true most people have never had a bad update, but why not cut that down to close to zero? The world would be just a tiny bit better if of all those people who should just set their phone to update at 3am, none of them ever woke up to find what used to be their phone is now their paperweight.

    Plus think of all the time it would save Mustang... He may have never had a bad update, but he must have spent an age helping people that have.
    mustang7757, ironass and kjjb0204 like this.
    01-26-2021 04:36 PM
  18. Gary02468's Avatar
    It's true most people have never had a bad update, but why not cut that down to close to zero?
    As with any desired feature, the question is whether the benefit is worth the cost. The answer here depends on how often users get inconvenienced by bricked updates, and how much of various resources (storage, engineering effort, testing effort) the feature requires. I have none of the information that I'd need to calculate the quantitative tradeoff, so I'm in no position to say whether Samsung made the right call.
    01-26-2021 06:23 PM
  19. fuzzylumpkin's Avatar
    As with any desired feature, the question is whether the benefit is worth the cost. The answer here depends on how often users get inconvenienced by bricked updates, and how much of various resources (storage, engineering effort, testing effort) the feature requires. I have none of the information that I'd need to calculate the quantitative tradeoff, so I'm in no position to say whether Samsung made the right call.
    You should bare in mind that this feature exists in Android already. It takes no more resources to engineer around it than to keep it enabled. The work has been done.
    ironass likes this.
    01-26-2021 06:59 PM
  20. mustang7757's Avatar
    It's true most people have never had a bad update, but why not cut that down to close to zero? The world would be just a tiny bit better if of all those people who should just set their phone to update at 3am, none of them ever woke up to find what used to be their phone is now their paperweight.

    Plus think of all the time it would save Mustang... He may have never had a bad update, but he must have spent an age helping people that have.
    Countless times not that I'm keeping track or anything
    J Dubbs likes this.
    01-26-2021 07:28 PM
  21. Gary02468's Avatar
    You should [bear] in mind that this feature exists in Android already. It takes no more resources to engineer around it than to keep it enabled. The work has been done.
    Dunno. The article linked above (by XDA editor-in-chief Mishaal Rahman) says "OEMs don’t want to sacrifice a few gigabytes of storage space to support seamless updates" and "Another reason OEMs may have chosen not to implement A/B partitions is cost: Keeping up with Google’s constant changes to Android’s partition schemes requires a lot of effort".

    I have no independent knowledge of these considerations, so I can't say whether Rahman's assessment is correct, but it sounds plausible to me.
    01-26-2021 07:30 PM
  22. bill-e's Avatar
    It's been so long that I had forgotten about the lengthy app update times so yea, I'd prefer seamless
    fuzzylumpkin likes this.
    01-26-2021 07:31 PM
  23. Ragnarianrok's Avatar
    Seamless would be great. But I'm okay with this.

    Don't know why Samsung's not doing it though.
    01-26-2021 07:40 PM
  24. BerryBubbles's Avatar
    But why would you WANT to wait 15 minutes when you shouldn't have to? Why invent the lightbulb when candles are fine why use a washing machine them there's a perfectly good bathtub in your house?

    It's a better solution to a current technology.
    You are a true Master of the Metaphor.
    (I mean that as a compliment incase there is any doubt.)
    mustang7757 likes this.
    01-27-2021 02:56 AM
  25. Rukbat's Avatar
    1. A reboot with a non-seamless update can take 10-15 minutes. It's the same amount of time as it takes for "first boot" when you install a custom ROM.

    2. It's not that a seamless update is less susceptible to corruption, it's that unless the update completed with no errors, the phone won't switch to the update. So the phone is still running on the last update and after 24 hours from the last attempt, it tries for an update again.

    (I've only had one corrupted update - on a Note 3 - but Samsung doesn't consider corrupted updates as covered by the warranty, so you have to buy a new phone if you can't get the phone into download mode.)
    ironass likes this.
    01-27-2021 02:39 PM
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