06-02-2012 03:46 AM
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  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Really, this again? If something is defective and the manufacturer claims its how they designed it, then yes, it is broken. There's no reason to play semantic games, the user experience is all that matters.

    HTCDev unlock is a joke, it doesn't give you proper root. And requiring users to root their phone (and void the warranty) just to get a usable phone, how is that acceptable?
    Being broken would mean that it doesn't function as intended. HTC intends for it to function exactly the way it does. So, no, it's not broken. It's also not a Nexus. It doesn't have to run exactly the way Google says. That's the beauty of open source. Anybody that doesn't like the way it runs can return it and get something else. I could argue that changing the framework will alter the way Android functions, and by your definition, would then be considered broken.

    Same with the SGSIII and any bugs or "features" that people don't like. Vote with your pocket book,

    I agree with HTCDev, they should just come unlocked from the factory. The phone is plenty usable without root. I would know, I have one. It hasn't let me down yet. But that is just me, and my use case, other people might not agree.
    mykrlz182 likes this.
    05-26-2012 04:46 PM
  2. Crispy's Avatar
    Being broken would mean that it doesn't function as intended
    It means it doesn't function. There's no need for 'as intended'.

    So you praise Sense for being more faithful to ICS/Holo and at the same think its ok for HTC to completely break multitasking as Google intended?

    My definition of broken is something that leads to a bad user experience (really, its not just bad, its terrible), it has nothing to do with frameworks/guidelines.
    05-26-2012 05:03 PM
  3. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    It means it doesn't function. There's no need for 'as intended'.

    So you praise Sense for being more faithful to ICS/Holo and at the same think its ok for HTC to completely break multitasking as Google intended?

    My definition of broken is something that leads to a bad user experience (really, its not just bad, its terrible), it has nothing to do with frameworks/guidelines.
    I think the time for people thinking that all Android phones will run the same is over. Has been for a while, but even more so now. If you want an Android phone, buy a Nexus. Plain and simple. Otherwise you're buying an HTC Sense, Samsung Touchwiz, Motorola Blur, etc., phone. The manufacturer can change whatever they want. If you get it and don't like it, return it and get something else. Nobody forces anybody else to keep a phone they don't like, don't want, or doesn't function they way they want it to.

    Being open source is a double edged sword, and now we're seeing the other edge. Whether or not it's a bad user experience is up to each individual user. Speaking specifically about the multi-tasking, I personally don't get that frustrated by it because I'm not a super-multi-tasking-do-eighty-things-at-once kind of user. I don't run into the "jump out of facebook mid-comment and then go back and it's gone" scenario ever. Very rarely does a webpage reloading bother me. Actually in a lot of cases I kinda like it, because it's the first thing I would do myself.

    So yeah we've derailed the conversation a bit, but that's ok. This is good stuff.
    kkapoorr likes this.
    05-26-2012 05:19 PM
  4. LazrRocketArm's Avatar
    HTC intends for it to function exactly the way it does. .







    Samsung has taken the suggested way of doing things and thrown them out the window. This is a fact. Android shouldn't have a menu button or removable storage.
    What's good for the goose?


    Sent from my Samsung SGH-i727 on ATT LTE
    hounddogdaddy likes this.
    05-26-2012 05:22 PM
  5. Crispy's Avatar
    I think the time for people thinking that all Android phones will run the same is over. Has been for a while, but even more so now. If you want an Android phone, buy a Nexus. Plain and simple. Otherwise you're buying an HTC Sense, Samsung Touchwiz, Motorola Blur, etc., phone. The manufacturer can change whatever they want.
    This is fine. But why do you think its ok for HTC to change things, but not Samsung?
    hounddogdaddy likes this.
    05-26-2012 05:31 PM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    What's good for the goose?


    Sent from my Samsung SGH-i727 on ATT LTE
    Agreed.





    This is fine. But why do you think its ok for HTC to change things, but not Samsung?
    They have every right to, but IMO its more of the same, and will definitely not help with updates.

    HTC also listened to people and made Sense much better. Maybe that implies that touchwiz was always better? I didn't mind I at all on the sgsii. Actually really liked it. It staying the same allowed HTC to jump ahead IMO. Sense 4.0 is a noticeable improvement over 3.X.

    The new touchwiz looks the same and maybe improved in functionality. Still not a fan of the gimmicky stuff they added, though.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    05-26-2012 06:01 PM
  7. jontalk's Avatar
    Coming from someone about to switch to Android, it's just a matter of taste. I have played around more with Samsung devices (Skyrocket, Note), though I also played with the Vivid and found it underwhelming. What's interesting Kevin is that you seemed totally sold on the One X, meanwhile there are TONS of people who bought one who seemed pretty unhappy with many of the functions and issues. And a group are marching back to ATT to return them too, though I suspect this happens with many new phones.

    And its this that gives me cause for concern where I to get the GS3 rather than the Skyrocket. I DO believe the GS3 has some very advanced features, and a pentile display that may last longer than the non-pentile super AMOLED on the Skyrocket. Regardless, Samsung is clearly the leader when it comes to hand held while HTC is trying to play catch up.

    Yes, the One X is a nice phone, no arguing it. But it will be interesting to see once ATT has it side by side with the GS3, which may blow its doors off.. Time will tell.
    05-26-2012 07:22 PM
  8. neiljay6's Avatar
    Does it really matter how you achieve the objective as long as you actually achieve it?? I mean Samsung didn’t take away the ability to access the task manager or how it functions. It’s just a long press on a button rather than a short press..on an extra button.
    05-26-2012 07:38 PM
  9. JHBThree's Avatar
    Coming from someone about to switch to Android, it's just a matter of taste. I have played around more with Samsung devices (Skyrocket, Note), though I also played with the Vivid and found it underwhelming. What's interesting Kevin is that you seemed totally sold on the One X, meanwhile there are TONS of people who bought one who seemed pretty unhappy with many of the functions and issues. And a group are marching back to ATT to return them too, though I suspect this happens with many new phones.

    And its this that gives me cause for concern where I to get the GS3 rather than the Skyrocket. I DO believe the GS3 has some very advanced features, and a pentile display that may last longer than the non-pentile super AMOLED on the Skyrocket. Regardless, Samsung is clearly the leader when it comes to hand held while HTC is trying to play catch up.

    Yes, the One X is a nice phone, no arguing it. But it will be interesting to see once ATT has it side by side with the GS3, which may blow its doors off.. Time will tell.
    They'll have the same processor, so there will be no blowing off of doors.
    05-26-2012 08:17 PM
  10. JHBThree's Avatar
    Does it really matter how you achieve the objective as long as you actually achieve it?? I mean Samsung didn’t take away the ability to access the task manager or how it functions. It’s just a long press on a button rather than a short press..on an extra button.
    Yes, it does. It means Samsung is purposely and willfully ignoring googles intent for android, for no other reason than to be different. It creates fragmentation, and open conflict between Samsung and the rest of android.
    05-26-2012 08:20 PM
  11. Crispy's Avatar
    I just returned from the AT& store where I tried the One X and Sense 4.0 for the 1st time.

    - AT&T said none of their stores are selling the phone because of the Apple lawsuit There were a number of customers there who wanted it

    - The multitasking issue is there and its annoying. It works better with well behaved apps (e.g. gmail will reload but its good about saving state so the impact is not bad). Free memory after killing everything in task manager was <200MB

    - the screen is absolutely fantastic!

    - Sense 4.0 still seems to have some lag. I compared it to my phone (Evo 4g with MIUI). On the One X I started 2 downloads (on AT&T 4G), and then simple things like hitting home or app drawer would sometimes lag. Expected better

    - Its a very desirable phone, so sleek, good looking and light. It made my Evo feel like a brick

    Conclusion - custom rom's make a world of difference and will almost be a necessity to unlock the full potential of this phone.
    05-26-2012 08:35 PM
  12. Skunkape60's Avatar
    Yes, it does. It means Samsung is purposely and willfully ignoring googles intent for android, for no other reason than to be different. It creates fragmentation, and open conflict between Samsung and the rest of android.
    Lol... Tell me that you even know what Google's intent for android is.The fact that it's open source shows us that fragmentation means nothing to them.

    Besides, stock android would not survive without phone manufacturers and carriers putting there own twists on it. Stock android is the most boring UI there is. Android would never have become as popular as it is now if asop was all that was available. The fact there is so many different variances is why it's doing so well.

    _______________
    Just Flash It !!!
    05-26-2012 10:29 PM
  13. JHBThree's Avatar
    Lol... Tell me that you even know what Google's intent for android is.The fact that it's open source shows us that fragmentation means nothing to them.

    Besides, stock android would not survive without phone manufacturers and carriers putting there own twists on it. Stock android is the most boring UI there is. Android would never have become as popular as it is now if asop was all that was available. The fact there is so many different variances is why it's doing so well.

    _______________
    Just Flash It !!!
    Uhm. We know what googles intent is, because they've 1) Told us, in the form of the android style guide and numerous 'helper' documents for developers and 2) because they've shown us with Nexus devices. Google wants the physical menu button dead. Samsung apparently doesn't care.
    05-26-2012 10:51 PM
  14. LazrRocketArm's Avatar
    Uhm. We know what googles intent is, because they've 1) Told us, in the form of the android style guide and numerous 'helper' documents for developers and 2) because they've shown us with Nexus devices. Google wants the physical menu button dead. Samsung apparently doesn't care.
    The millions of people buying the SGS3 don't seem to care either.
    Probably will be gone in the states, so I do not care. Really do not care about the button in the middle, whether its physical, capacitive, or on screen.
    Same function, so what's the difference.

    Sent from my Samsung SGH-i727 on ATT LTE
    05-26-2012 10:59 PM
  15. Skunkape60's Avatar
    Uhm. We know what googles intent is, because they've 1) Told us, in the form of the android style guide and numerous 'helper' documents for developers and 2) because they've shown us with Nexus devices. Google wants the physical menu button dead. Samsung apparently doesn't care.
    I for one, will leave android if I am forced to use on screen buttons. This is the reason it's opened source. So everything can be modded.

    _______________
    Just Flash It !!!
    05-26-2012 11:19 PM
  16. hounddogdaddy's Avatar
    Being broken would mean that it doesn't function as intended. HTC intends for it to function exactly the way it does. So, no, it's not broken. It's also not a Nexus. It doesn't have to run exactly the way Google says. That's the beauty of open source. Anybody that doesn't like the way it runs can return it and get something else. I could argue that changing the framework will alter the way Android functions, and by your definition, would then be considered broken.

    And from your previous post...

    Samsung has taken the suggested way of doing things and thrown them out the window. This is a fact. Android shouldn't have a menu button or removable storage. Period. This is clearly a step in the wrong direction for the Android platform as a whole. Yes, people want these things, but Samsung should've went ahead and planned for the future.
    Really?!?! So it's apparently ok for HTC to make arbitrary changes to core Android functionality, but not Samsung? This is such a blatant double standard that it makes me question almost all of your thoughts on the GS3. It seems as if you have an agenda to push, either trashing Samsung or just pumping the tires of HTC. It's especially disappointing because your comments on the quad vs dual core debate were fantastic and really helped me understand the difference and the reasons that the dual core S4 chip is not simply inferior to quad cores for the 2 vs 4 reasons.

    Sent from my HTC EVO3D, oh God I need a new phone!
    Crispy likes this.
    05-27-2012 12:28 AM
  17. Mark_C's Avatar
    Interesting conversation, there is certainly some love for Sense 4 but I still don't quite understand the arguments..
    Samsung are being bashed for leaving a physical button because "its not how google intended"
    But HTC are getting praise for totally changing multitasking - surely thats not how google intended though ? but it seems ok for HTC to do this ?

    Also:

    Show me where Sense modifies less of ICS than TouchWiz.

    Looks are totally subjective, but e.g Sense persists in using rounded corners, gradients and button chrome when Holo is supposed to be square, monochromatic and flat. Compare the 2 dilalers and tell me which one looks more like stock.
    I kind of agree with ecrispy's post. We still haven't seen minimal modification from Sense.

    Still we see Sense getting praise for being "closely aligned with ICS", yet it doesn't look the same, doesn't function in the same way and is heavily modified in almost all areas.
    TW uses stock screens in some places and as we saw from screenshots on the previous page is very similar to ICS in places.

    Maybe I'm being a bit dim, but I still don't understand how Sense is closer to ICS. Would love for Phil to chime in here
    hounddogdaddy likes this.
    05-27-2012 02:20 AM
  18. Crispy's Avatar
    I also feel some of the posts here are not entirely objective. I've used a One X and I can tell you Sense feels nothing like stock ICS. I could care less about following some arbitrary standards if the user experience is poor.

    So instead of opinions, here are some facts -


    1. One X is fundamentally broken (no one cares what HTC calls it, that's just PR spin) and is reason enough for anyone not to get the phone. It would be better if reviews on all sites let users know this.
    2. The menu bar that appears in most apps today is a usability nightmare. Maybe in a year when all apps have been updated it will make sense. On a phone with no onscreen buttons, the correct decision is to have a menu key, and that is fully within Google UI guidelines, which explicitly state that if apps don't have a menu button, it will be shown next the the other buttons.
    3. If you want to fix these issues with custom roms, once again HTC phones are not dev friendly like Samsung's.
    05-27-2012 03:41 AM
  19. weberm13's Avatar
    I love the galaxy s line, had an Epic 4G and two different Galaxy S IIs (one at&t and one tmobile). But the GSIII doesn't look all that great to me. While the specs definitely impress, the white version looks almost identical to the phone I have, only thinner and bigger.

    Plus the pentile screen might make me steer clear of this Galaxy S. I'm gonna try the One X if it ever comes to Tmobile USA.
    05-27-2012 05:38 AM
  20. mykrlz182's Avatar
    "If you want to fix these issues with custom roms, once again HTC phones are not dev friendly like Samsung's."

    Wow this quote said it all, you guys are worse than the Apple guys. Denial, is all I gotta say...... You start out by saying that your going to stick with "facts", there was not one single word of fact in that paragraph. :banghead:

    From my long awaited and totally worth it EVO LTE!
    05-27-2012 05:55 AM
  21. blitz118's Avatar
    I love the galaxy s line, had an Epic 4G and two different Galaxy S IIs (one at&t and one tmobile). But the GSIII doesn't look all that great to me. While the specs definitely impress, the white version looks almost identical to the phone I have, only thinner and bigger.

    Plus the pentile screen might make me steer clear of this Galaxy S. I'm gonna try the One X if it ever comes to Tmobile USA.
    The specs, and the features sold the phone for me and reviews I've read said the screen looks very good. The phone looks good to me, and I will be picking up two of them.
    05-27-2012 05:59 AM
  22. Dreamliner330's Avatar
    I wonder if the GS3 will have the same terrible signal strength as every other Samsung Android phone.

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that the phones have data/voice connection issues or the fact that people accept it.

    Never again Samsung, never again.
    05-27-2012 06:03 AM
  23. neiljay6's Avatar
    hmmm...my s2 doesn't have signal strength issues nor does my htc inpire..
    05-27-2012 06:31 AM
  24. Dreamliner330's Avatar
    hmmm...my s2 doesn't have signal strength issues
    Riiiiight.
    05-27-2012 06:35 AM
  25. neiljay6's Avatar
    wow.. this guy is trying to tell me how my phone operates
    05-27-2012 06:53 AM
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