06-02-2012 03:46 AM
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  1. Dreamliner330's Avatar
    wow.. this guy is trying to tell me how my phone operates
    Perception my friend. If you think a certain behavior, or lack thereof, is normal, then you have no reason to believe that behavior abnormal.

    Step into the light.
    05-27-2012 07:04 AM
  2. neiljay6's Avatar
    Ha! Normally i might take offence to you implying that i just don't know any better, buuut its not worth it. at the end of the day we both are entitled to our own opinions i guess.
    05-27-2012 08:00 AM
  3. LazrRocketArm's Avatar
    Perception my friend. If you think a certain behavior, or lack thereof, is normal, then you have no reason to believe that behavior abnormal.

    Step into the light.
    Might give your argument some credit if you didn't TOTALLY ignore his reference to his HTC phone.
    So, inferring he doesn't know any better, also directly suggests the HTC phone has issues as well.

    So we know you are just trying to be argumentative.

    Sent from my Samsung SGH-i727 on ATT LTE
    05-27-2012 10:14 AM
  4. Crispy's Avatar
    "If you want to fix these issues with custom roms, once again HTC phones are not dev friendly like Samsung's."

    Wow this quote said it all, you guys are worse than the Apple guys. Denial, is all I gotta say...... You start out by saying that your going to stick with "facts", there was not one single word of fact in that paragraph. :banghead:

    From my long awaited and totally worth it EVO LTE!
    Care to tell me what was wrong in my statement instead of insulting? Do you know the differences in the root process between Samsung / HTC?
    05-27-2012 01:11 PM
  5. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Really?!?! So it's apparently ok for HTC to make arbitrary changes to core Android functionality, but not Samsung? This is such a blatant double standard that it makes me question almost all of your thoughts on the GS3. It seems as if you have an agenda to push, either trashing Samsung or just pumping the tires of HTC. It's especially disappointing because your comments on the quad vs dual core debate were fantastic and really helped me understand the difference and the reasons that the dual core S4 chip is not simply inferior to quad cores for the 2 vs 4 reasons.

    Sent from my HTC EVO3D, oh God I need a new phone!

    It's okay for both companies to do whatever they want. That's why open source is awesome.

    Samsung has a terrible track record with updates, though, so the more they change the longer they will take. That and the fact that a lot of the "features" don't work as well as I hoped (most of them really do look cool).




    I also feel some of the posts here are not entirely objective. I've used a One X and I can tell you Sense feels nothing like stock ICS. I could care less about following some arbitrary standards if the user experience is poor.

    So instead of opinions, here are some facts -


    1. One X is fundamentally broken (no one cares what HTC calls it, that's just PR spin) and is reason enough for anyone not to get the phone. It would be better if reviews on all sites let users know this.
    2. The menu bar that appears in most apps today is a usability nightmare. Maybe in a year when all apps have been updated it will make sense. On a phone with no onscreen buttons, the correct decision is to have a menu key, and that is fully within Google UI guidelines, which explicitly state that if apps don't have a menu button, it will be shown next the the other buttons.
    3. If you want to fix these issues with custom roms, once again HTC phones are not dev friendly like Samsung's.
    Multi tasking isn't broken. HTC changed it. So don't say it's okay for samsung to change things and not HTC, even if you personally disagree with what they changed.

    The menu bar is the fault of apps not being updated. I don't want my phone to make up for the deficiency of the app dev. The app dev should update their app to work with hardware that's based on current Google guidelines. What's harder to update, an app or the phone?

    The One X is seemingly more future proof because of this. What happens to that menu button when all apps are updated? Will samsung have to push an update to change its core functionality? I haven't seen anyone really touch on that.


    I'm personally disappointed in the SGSIII and I think samsung could've done more on the software side. They had more time with the code, but all they really did was add some maybe useful for some features.

    Touchwiz vs sense will be personal preference as far as appearance, and although I like dark themes better, new touchwiz looks too much like old touchwiz IMO.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    05-27-2012 01:14 PM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I also never disagreed with the statement that samsung is more dev friendly. They are.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    05-27-2012 01:28 PM
  7. LazrRocketArm's Avatar
    So those liking old touchwiz(me), will like new touchwiz. I understand some may not like it, but don't think it should be a negative as far as reviews go.

    Kind of like a fat car reviewer dogging a new Corvette for not having comfortable seats.
    Well dude, it wasn't designed for you.

    Like Kevin has said, find the one that fits you best. Then enjoy and be happy!
    Tkbredx likes this.
    05-27-2012 01:36 PM
  8. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    So those liking old touchwiz(me), will like new touchwiz. I understand some may not like it, but don't think it should be a negative as far as reviews go.

    Kind of like a fat car reviewer dogging a new Corvette for not having comfortable seats.
    Well dude, it wasn't designed for you.

    Like Kevin has said, find the one that fits you best. Then enjoy and be happy!
    Yes I think I can agree with that. Why is it a negative in some cases? Because it's now not considered innovative. Samsung is quickly becoming a software company selling the touchwiz experience. Which is completely fine, but I'm afraid they will fall into the same thinking as Apple. Which is that not much can change so they don't shock users with a new UI and "break" the usability or familiarity for users of current touchwiz phones. RIM did that, Apple does that. Samsung is close to doing that.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    05-27-2012 01:47 PM
  9. Mark_C's Avatar
    Yes I think I can agree with that. Why is it a negative in some cases? Because it's now not considered innovative. Samsung is quickly becoming a software company selling the touchwiz experience. Which is completely fine, but I'm afraid they will fall into the same thinking as Apple. Which is that not much can change so they don't shock users with a new UI and "break" the usability or familiarity for users of current touchwiz phones. RIM did that, Apple does that. Samsung is close to doing that.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    So HTC is guilty of the exact same thing because from what I have seen Sense 4 is little different to my original desire.

    How can TW not of changed when it uses stock ICS screens ?

    This post doesn't make sense.
    05-27-2012 01:57 PM
  10. ratchetjaw#AC's Avatar
    So HTC is guilty of the exact same thing because from what I have seen Sense 4 is little different to my original desire.

    How can TW not of changed when it uses stock ICS screens ?

    This post doesn't make sense.
    I am on my HOX right now and can't wait for my GS3 to arrive. Over the years I have finally realized I much prefer Touch wiz over Sense. This new Sense is the worst yet. Great hardware terrible software on the HOX IMHO

    Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
    05-27-2012 02:04 PM
  11. PookiePrancer's Avatar
    Okay, back to the review..... As I sit here, waiting to ship my Evo LTE back to Sprint, I have to say that the Engadget review may have actually convinced me to hold out for the SGS III instead of trying another Evo LTE. I really didn't see the review as a knock against the SGS III. On the contrary, I like what it had to say; it seems the SGS III will offer more.
    05-27-2012 02:48 PM
  12. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    So HTC is guilty of the exact same thing because from what I have seen Sense 4 is little different to my original desire.

    How can TW not of changed when it uses stock ICS screens ?

    This post doesn't make sense.
    Sense 4.0 is nothing like sense 2.X. It's completely different actually. Look at the dock, lock screen, app drawer, even the clock widget.

    Touchwiz has always used some stock Android screens. So that hasn't changed....

    There's nothing functionally wrong with touchwiz, I just think the majority of people were hoping for some kind of clean break with regards to the design.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    05-27-2012 03:03 PM
  13. Crispy's Avatar
    Multi tasking isn't broken. HTC changed it. So don't say it's okay for samsung to change things and not HTC, even if you personally disagree with what they changed.
    Ok we can go back and forth all day on this. HTC changed it so its now a terrible user experience and claim its fine. Is that better?

    The menu bar is the fault of apps not being updated. I don't want my phone to make up for the deficiency of the app dev. The app dev should update their app to work with hardware that's based on current Google guidelines. What's harder to update, an app or the phone?

    The One X is seemingly more future proof because of this. What happens to that menu button when all apps are updated? Will samsung have to push an update to change its core functionality? I haven't seen anyone really touch on that
    Nothing needs to be updated by Samsung. Android Design - Action Bar

    "The overflow icon only appears on phones that have no menu hardware keys. Phones with menu keys display the action overflow when the user presses the key."

    The 3 dots menu was only meant for phones with onscreen buttons, so it could be shown when needed. Physical menu buttons are just fine too.
    05-27-2012 03:23 PM
  14. LazrRocketArm's Avatar
    Yes I think I can agree with that. Why is it a negative in some cases? Because it's now not considered innovative. Samsung is quickly becoming a software company selling the touchwiz experience. Which is completely fine, but I'm afraid they will fall into the same thinking as Apple. Which is that not much can change so they don't shock users with a new UI and "break" the usability or familiarity for users of current touchwiz phones. RIM did that, Apple does that. Samsung is close to doing that.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    I can understand those concerns. It is obvious that samsung is trying to establish their own ecosystem inside of Android. The more they accomplish those goals, the more they try to differentiate from Android.

    Valid point indeed.
    05-27-2012 03:26 PM
  15. JHBThree's Avatar
    I for one, will leave android if I am forced to use on screen buttons. This is the reason it's opened source. So everything can be modded.

    _______________
    Just Flash It !!!
    Google wants the menu button in all forms gone. Some manufacturers have actually listened. Samsung apparently doesn't feel that they should.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    05-27-2012 03:52 PM
  16. Mark_C's Avatar
    Sense 4.0 is nothing like sense 2.X. It's completely different actually. Look at the dock, lock screen, app drawer, even the clock widget.

    Touchwiz has always used some stock Android screens. So that hasn't changed....

    There's nothing functionally wrong with touchwiz, I just think the majority of people were hoping for some kind of clean break with regards to the design.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    Sorry, I think you are talking shades of grey with regards to Sense 4. The app drawer scrolls left & right instead of up and down and they stole the dock from Apple.

    Hardly innovative or a big break from Sense 2 is it ?

    Yes I think I can agree with that. Why is it a negative in some cases? Because it's now not considered innovative. Samsung is quickly becoming a software company selling the touchwiz experience. Which is completely fine, but I'm afraid they will fall into the same thinking as Apple. Which is that not much can change so they don't shock users with a new UI and "break" the usability or familiarity for users of current touchwiz phones. RIM did that, Apple does that. Samsung is close to doing that.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    So Samsung are creating their own "eco system" with the "touchwiz experience" away from Android by erm, using stock android screens ? Meanwhile HTC that change everything in sight aren't doing the same thing ?

    I'm not saying one is better than the other but frankly there is alot of crap being spouted about TW which easily applies to HTC and other phone makers.
    05-27-2012 03:57 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Google wants the menu button in all forms gone. Some manufacturers have actually listened. Samsung apparently doesn't feel that they should.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    This....





    Ok we can go back and forth all day on this. HTC changed it so its now a terrible user experience and claim its fine. Is that better?



    Nothing needs to be updated by Samsung. Android Design - Action Bar

    "The overflow icon only appears on phones that have no menu hardware keys. Phones with menu keys display the action overflow when the user presses the key."

    The 3 dots menu was only meant for phones with onscreen buttons, so it could be shown when needed. Physical menu buttons are just fine too.
    ...answers this. I'm glad I'm not the only one that gets it. :-)

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    05-27-2012 04:25 PM
  18. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Sorry, I think you are talking shades of grey with regards to Sense 4. The app drawer scrolls left & right instead of up and down and they stole the dock from Apple.

    Hardly innovative or a big break from Sense 2 is it ?


    So Samsung are creating their own "eco system" with the "touchwiz experience" away from Android by erm, using stock android screens ? Meanwhile HTC that change everything in sight aren't doing the same thing ?

    I'm not saying one is better than the other but frankly there is alot of crap being spouted about TW which easily applies to HTC and other phone makers.

    Samsung got sued by Apple for copying the dock...

    HTC didn't.

    Sense 4.0 is a pretty clean break. HTC is trying to move forward. Touchwiz isn't bad, but it's iterative, not fresh or new. I don't blame samsung for not wanting to change too much. They have a winning formula that sells a ton of phones. HTC was just ready for them this time around.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    05-27-2012 04:33 PM
  19. Mark_C's Avatar
    Samsung got sued by Apple for copying the dock...

    HTC didn't.
    A|re you saying that the HTC dock is dramatically different to Apple/Samsung ?
    No, of course not, so why bring up a spurious point ?

    Funny, I was just reading a post elsewhere where someone commented that there were quite a few people online trying to justify their purchase of the HTC by criticising the S3 and Samsung, maybe he'd been reading this thread.
    05-27-2012 04:42 PM
  20. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    A|re you saying that the HTC dock is dramatically different to Apple/Samsung ?
    No, of course not, so why bring up a spurious point ?

    Funny, I was just reading a post elsewhere where someone commented that there were quite a few people online trying to justify their purchase of the HTC by criticising the S3 and Samsung, maybe he'd been reading this thread.
    Of course it is. Always has been. Though admittedly the dock was terrible before Sense 4.0.

    I have no need to justify my purchase. It's what I want, and if the SGSIII were better in the ways that matter most to me I would want it instead.

    That and it hasn't even been officially announced for any US carriers.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Android Central Forums
    snoopyandroid likes this.
    05-27-2012 04:50 PM
  21. Crispy's Avatar
    I'm very familiar with Sense versions prior to 4 since I've used it a lot. Admittedly, I've only used the One X for ~20min in a store, but have read pretty much all the Sense 4 reviews, and I really don't see where its making a 'clean break'.

    The Contacts, People apps, all the widgets, the lockscreen, are exactly the same as in previous Sense versions, with maybe mior changes in the big clock. The settings menus is different, and the apps have a menu button. But the violate the standards too, e.g. apps are supposed to have an action bar, not a list of text buttons like in the gallery/browser.

    I want to see evidence of this supposed revolution from earlier Sense versions. To 99% of HTC users, the biggest change will be the customizable dock and the clock. The rest is the same.
    05-27-2012 06:04 PM
  22. Crispy's Avatar
    Here's another area where Samsung follows the Google philosophy and HTC does their own thing -

    One X - apps are in a separate partition, and thus limited to 2GB, even on a 32GB phone
    GS3 - single partition shared by apps, data, music etc. Just like the Nexus

    But I suppose it's ok for HTC to do this since they can customize it, whereas Samsung deciding to keep the menu button is not!
    05-27-2012 06:20 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I'm very familiar with Sense versions prior to 4 since I've used it a lot. Admittedly, I've only used the One X for ~20min in a store, but have read pretty much all the Sense 4 reviews, and I really don't see where its making a 'clean break'.

    The Contacts, People apps, all the widgets, the lockscreen, are exactly the same as in previous Sense versions, with maybe mior changes in the big clock. The settings menus is different, and the apps have a menu button. But the violate the standards too, e.g. apps are supposed to have an action bar, not a list of text buttons like in the gallery/browser.

    I want to see evidence of this supposed revolution from earlier Sense versions. To 99% of HTC users, the biggest change will be the customizable dock and the clock. The rest is the same.
    The revolution is in how much HTC DIDN'T do that they could've. Instead of trying to change every single part of ICS they decided to theme it (putting it simply) and add functionality where they saw fit. I happen to be of the mind that they did it right. Obviously that's an opinion. I think Samsung did great things with Touchwiz, too, but it just doesn't do it for me as much as Sense does now.

    I guess what it boils down to is this...Google did a "clean break" with ICS in terms of UI and functionality, and IMO HTC tried to follow suit. Samsung just kinda said "we're going to keep Touchwiz the same, regardless of where Google is trying to take Android as a platform."

    HTC is first and foremost a hardware company. This definitely shows in the entire One series. Samsung started off the same way, but they've gradually made the change to being software driven. Heck, that might be the way to go honestly. Gotta differentiate somehow. From a business standpoint nobody can argue with what Samsung is doing, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do from the perspective of Android as a platform.

    Look at Amazon. They made the Kindle Fire and it was a runaway success. It's based on Android, but you wouldn't know that by using it. That's completely by design and Amazon did that on purpose. Samsung isn't quite there yet, but I see them thinking the same way. Android is a great base, but we'll do it our way and it'll be better. Is that right or wrong? Ultimately it really is up to the consumer to decide on his/her own.

    Here's another area where Samsung follows the Google philosophy and HTC does their own thing -

    One X - apps are in a separate partition, and thus limited to 2GB, even on a 32GB phone
    GS3 - single partition shared by apps, data, music etc. Just like the Nexus

    But I suppose it's ok for HTC to do this since they can customize it, whereas Samsung deciding to keep the menu button is not!
    That's one area. And yes, it's an awesome thing. But you're really going to be that specific? Google said they don't want a menu button or removable storage. Specifically. And Samsung decided to do it anyway.
    05-27-2012 08:55 PM
  24. Crispy's Avatar
    The revolution is in how much HTC DIDN'T do that they could've. Instead of trying to change every single part of ICS they decided to theme it (putting it simply) and add functionality where they saw fit. I happen to be of the mind that they did it right. Obviously that's an opinion. I think Samsung did great things with Touchwiz, too, but it just doesn't do it for me as much as Sense does now.

    I guess what it boils down to is this...Google did a "clean break" with ICS in terms of UI and functionality, and IMO HTC tried to follow suit. Samsung just kinda said "we're going to keep Touchwiz the same, regardless of where Google is trying to take Android as a platform."
    I disagree. Where is this 'clean break' HTC have made? Most of Sense is unchanged. I've given specific examples. Can you give some examples that make back up your opinion, since you've used the new Sense a lot more. The only oem skin I'd call remotely close to stock is the new Motorola ICS one they just revealed.

    btw, just because Google says so doesn't make it right. If all phones were barebones AOSP, Android wouldn't sell. Are you seriously trying to say removable storage is bad?
    05-27-2012 09:51 PM
  25. JHBThree's Avatar
    I'm very familiar with Sense versions prior to 4 since I've used it a lot. Admittedly, I've only used the One X for ~20min in a store, but have read pretty much all the Sense 4 reviews, and I really don't see where its making a 'clean break'.

    The Contacts, People apps, all the widgets, the lockscreen, are exactly the same as in previous Sense versions, with maybe mior changes in the big clock. The settings menus is different, and the apps have a menu button. But the violate the standards too, e.g. apps are supposed to have an action bar, not a list of text buttons like in the gallery/browser.

    I want to see evidence of this supposed revolution from earlier Sense versions. To 99% of HTC users, the biggest change will be the customizable dock and the clock. The rest is the same.
    Sense apps have the action bar.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    Kevin OQuinn likes this.
    05-28-2012 03:09 AM
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