Should you feel bad supporting Samsung (a foreign company)?

[kiwicarlos741]

I think you make some very good points.

When you consider how long it has been since Apple has made any significant updates to iOS, plus their hard and fast rule to only releasing a new phone once a year (if you can call it that), even though they only change their phone once every couple of years and at least in my opinion you have a recipe for disaster in the long run.

Apple no longer has the luxury of having the smartphone with the largest of anything. Clearly, Apple is worried. One of the terms that Jobs coined (fragmentation) regarding Android as being a weakness is turning into one of its strengths. Can it be a headache having so many different styles of phones along with a variety of handsets, hell yes. Is it annoying when a company like Motorola releases new phones every couple of months, oh hell yes it is. But, ultimately, at least in my opinion it is benefiting the consumer.

iOS is just downright old and tired. It is a very restrictive operating system. There are some definite advantages to having it this way, but how long is it going to be before the consumers no longer need an iPhone for a year or two?

Now look at Android, look at how much it has changed since the very first version. There are significant changes, not to mention with each new release there are significant improvements.

At one time, iOS was innovative, original and creative. That is simply not the case anymore. There are features that have been incorporated into later versions of iOS that are clearly "borrowed" from Android. The notification bar is a significant one. Folders and desktop customization are also in that area in my opinion.

They copied everything that ios is from everyone, before the first apple iPhone treos and blackberries lead the smartphone industry. I could name countless things from even those two that were stolen and yet they cry like little babies over Samsung's devices.

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[TankMech]

Having spent a year in SK, they have just as much American aspects as the U.S. does. And being one if not the closest allies we have in the world, along with a huge trade economy I would say they should get our cash over anyone else. Samsung's products are awesome, not just their phones. Their cars are great, tvs, vast appliances and electronics. If you look at our relationship it would be stupid to say we support a foreign country by buying Samsung products. My ROK brother's in arms are great friends and good people, who many of our countrymen died for to give them the freedoms they have today. I don't see what Samsung did wrong in making a product that smokes the competion. Nothing in their phone or tab lines looks or feels anything like a iPhone. I have soldiers with both and my wife a sg3, and had an iPhone back in the day. Apple is pathetic in trying to do this only to Samsung. All smart phones have "similarities" its innevitable. The patents crapple holds are junk. Be glad when u buy a SK product, it makes us look more American imo. We helped make Samsung what it is today. Apple is weak without Steve blowjobs, they are reaching out for help and its obvious. This won't even hurt Sammy though. But apple beingbanned in SK? That will hurt them. Lol. Specially once their chips have to be bought somewhere else, making them even more less american. And I'm waiting till my upgrade comes to get a new note 2, or a new nexus if they come out with a quad core...mmm..nice...

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[pauldroidr2d2]

They copied everything that ios is from everyone, before the first apple iPhone treos and blackberries lead the smartphone industry. I could name countless things from even those two that were stolen and yet they cry like little babies over Samsung's devices.

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It is documented evidence that Samsung did in fact intend to copy Apple's iPhone. Whether Apple copied anyone, or not is irrelevant especially from a legal standpoint. The relevant part is who holds the patents. Samsung rather stupidly admitted to stealing patented features and designs. That is rather significant.

 

[anon(883913)]

It is documented evidence that Samsung did in fact intend to copy Apple's iPhone. Whether Apple copied anyone, or not is irrelevant especially from a legal standpoint. The relevant part is who holds the patents. Samsung rather stupidly admitted to stealing patented features and designs. That is rather significant.

I think there is more to it then what Apple and Samsung is telling. I mean Apple pulled those emails out of context! I bet there was some other type of conversation going on and then that just happened to come up but not in the manner Apple made it out to be. I read those emails that Apple released and yes they sounded like they intended to copy but my general impression off of them was Samsung executives saying, "we need something like the iPhone" and that is by all means legal. I mean when the first computer came out every company was like we need something similar but yet no one sued. What about when Ford announced the Mustang? Every other car manufacturer said, "we need something similar that can compete" but yet they didn't get sued over their cars.

 

[Ry]

It is documented evidence that Samsung did in fact intend to copy Apple's iPhone. Whether Apple copied anyone, or not is irrelevant especially from a legal standpoint. The relevant part is who holds the patents. Samsung rather stupidly admitted to stealing patented features and designs. That is rather significant.

And Samsung's "they stole so we stole from them" defense didn't really do them any favors.

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[pauldroidr2d2]

I think there is more to it then what Apple and Samsung is telling. I mean Apple pulled those emails out of context!

What was the proper context in your opinion?

I bet there was some other type of conversation going on and then that just happened to come up but not in the manner Apple made it out to be. I read those emails that Apple released and yes they sounded like they intended to copy but my general impression off of them was Samsung executives saying, "we need something like the iPhone" and that is by all means legal.

Unfortunately, from what it looks like, Samsung in those early phones did a great job in making their phones look like the iphone. At this point, your impression is moot. The fact of the matter is, Samsung is guilty of copying the iPhone.

I mean when the first computer came out every company was like we need something similar but yet no one sued. What about when Ford announced the Mustang? Every other car manufacturer said, "we need something similar that can compete" but yet they didn't get sued over their cars.

From what I recall regarding automobiles, the Mustang isn't almost identical to other cars in that class. I've posted pictures of some Samsung's early phones with the earlier iPhones. They do look very much a like. There were plenty of things that Samsung could've done to make their phones look very different than the iPhone, but they chose not too.

 

[Ry]

From what I recall regarding automobiles, the Mustang isn't almost identical to other cars in that class. I've posted pictures of some Samsung's early phones with the earlier iPhones. They do look very much a like. There were plenty of things that Samsung could've done to make their phones look very different than the iPhone, but they chose not too.

And IIRC, trade-dress isn't an issue with Apple and ongoing lawsuits with other Android OEMs.


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[anon(883913)]

What was the proper context in your opinion?

Like I said, I think it was two top execs pointing out a possible area for innovation and profit. Just like a lot of other companies out there, they saw another company doing something and decided they wanted to do something similar but make it even better! Maybe they did take it a little overboard trying to make it look exactly the same but Apple is being a little cry baby here, they're trying to say they invented the black rectangle with rounded edges! I mean every TV made looks similar, what about Laptops? They all have a screen, are rectangular, have keyboard, trackpad, IO connections, etc but yet someone isn't claiming they invented it and trying to sue everyone who makes something similar (Well, actually Apple is trying to say they own the wedge shape design but thats an entirely different story!)

 

[pauldroidr2d2]

Like I said, I think it was two top execs pointing out a possible area for innovation and profit. Just like a lot of other companies out there, they saw another company doing something and decided they wanted to do something similar but make it even better! Maybe they did take it a little overboard trying to make it look exactly the same but Apple is being a little cry baby here, they're trying to say they invented the black rectangle with rounded edges!

Well considering they are guilty of willfully violating Apple's patents, I'd say you are correct they went a little over board. Just a small mistake though that will cost the company a little over a billion dollars (at this point). I wonder how many jobs will be cut at Samsung because of a couple of top executives "going overboard." I'm sorry, but they did not have to design a phone that looked almost identical to the iPhone. Motorola didn't seem to have that problem, HTC didn't either.

I mean every TV made looks similar, what about Laptops? They all have a screen, are rectangular, have keyboard, trackpad, IO connections, etc but yet someone isn't claiming they invented it and trying to sue everyone who makes something similar (Well, actually Apple is trying to say they own the wedge shape design but thats an entirely different story!)

All irrelevant. That is not what was being challenged in court. All the excuse making in the world, doesn't excuse Samsung for what it did, nor does it reserve the judgment against them.

 

[BBSeattle]

In response to the OP; go look at everything you own.
Most everything you own is likely from abroad....
Shoes, clothes, TV, cooking utensils, appliances, toothbrush, etc.
The name on the product does not determine where it's from.

 

[534n]

Well considering they are guilty of willfully violating Apple's patents, I'd say you are correct they went a little over board. Just a small mistake though that will cost the company a little over a billion dollars (at this point). I wonder how many jobs will be cut at Samsung because of a couple of top executives "going overboard." I'm sorry, but they did not have to design a phone that looked almost identical to the iPhone. Motorola didn't seem to have that problem, HTC didn't either.


All irrelevant. That is not what was being challenged in court. All the excuse making in the world, doesn't excuse Samsung for what it did, nor does it reserve the judgment against them.

I have to firmly disagree with you. While in our broken legal system the only relevant facts are who holds the patent, the only thing Samsung is guilty of is screwing up a defense. apple is just charging someone for something it does itself, and the only reason is hasn't gone after Motorola or HTC are because it no longer wants to piss off Google and HTC hasn't made an easy target for them, respectively. Look at the history. apple has had cases against nearly every single mobile device manufacturer. Samsung did not do anything wrong. They merely did what apple does all the time. They took a great idea that was made into a mediocre idea and made it a great idea again. Taking text and twisting it and abbreviating it and using parts that benefit you can make anyone look like they are doing something bad. I will use the car analogy again, seeing as a few years ago, the G35, the 350Z, and the TT were all the same car; if I had the choice between an apple iPhone and a Samsung iPhone, I would buy Samsung's only on the grounds that there would be better electronics in the Samsung and better software. Even if they were IDENTICAL, the Samsung phone would be better quality.

For those griping over the cost of labor overseas, their living expense and conditions are not going to change if they stop working 10 hours a day or if the manufacturing moves back to US. In fact, things would get worse for them and their families. Something humanitarians all overlook is that for someone to win, someone else has to lose. There are only so many pieces of the pie, and not everyone can have one. Most people who have negative opinions of US vs. overseas labor are hypocrites. As was mentioned before, many Americans want to pay a nickel for their shoes and get paid $100/hour for their own labor. That is a prime reason why manufacturing leaves and design stays.

If the law were made by people who have to follow it, instead of those who benefit from it being broken and create loopholes for themselves to slide through, while knowing all of the edges and gain skill skirting them, then this case would have never made it to court and apple wouldn't be nearly as big as it is now. That includes patent laws, which protect businesses and people with money, while screwing independent designers with patent suits or costing them so much in patent/legal fees that it is no longer worth the struggle.

 

[Ry]

. I will use the car analogy again, seeing as a few years ago, the G35, the 350Z, and the TT were all the same car; .

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Says who??

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[sniffs]

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Says who??

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Not sure on the TT, but the G35 and 350Z both have the same engine, suspension, drivetrain and exhaust system. Basically the same car, with different bodies. G35 has 2 more seats and is designed more for luxury, 350Z is more sporty.

 

[Ry]

I have to firmly disagree with you. While in our broken legal system the only relevant facts are who holds the patent, the only thing Samsung is guilty of is screwing up a defense. apple is just charging someone for something it does itself, and the only reason is hasn't gone after Motorola or HTC are because it no longer wants to piss off Google and HTC hasn't made an easy target for them, respectively. Look at the history. apple has had cases against nearly every single mobile device manufacturer. Samsung did not do anything wrong. They merely did what apple does all the time. They took a great idea that was made into a mediocre idea and made it a great idea again. Taking text and twisting it and abbreviating it and using parts that benefit you can make anyone look like they are doing something bad.

Apparently the system is broken because Apple won.

Unless you're talking specifically about trade-dress, I'm not sure why you continue to insist that Apple doesn't have ongoing litigation with Motorola and HTC. That is simply untrue.

IIRC, HTC was one if the first companies Apple went after.

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[534n]

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Says who??

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Lol, says me and a few of my friends at the time after inspection and testing. Same frame, same motors excepting the TT's 1.8, same interior design, same handling, different emblems. Much more so the 350 and 35, but the TT was found reasonably close.

Pictures of them from the year (2002 generation) for broad comparison.

 

[534n]

Apparently the system is broken because Apple won.

Unless you're talking specifically about trade-dress, I'm not sure why you continue to insist that Apple doesn't have ongoing litigation with Motorola and HTC. That is simply untrue.

IIRC, HTC was one if the first companies Apple went after.

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I don't "continue to insist," seeing as this is the first time I mentioned Motorola and HTC. I am aware there were past issues, and if you can cite the ongoing litigations that would be great. What I did insist before, however, is that apple goes after every device it can make a case against, which is pretty much every device, because there are only so many intuitive designs.

 

[Ry]

Lol, says me and a few of my friends at the time after inspection and testing. Same frame, same motors excepting the TT's 1.8, same interior design, same handling, different emblems. Much more so the 350 and 35, but the TT was found reasonably close.

Pictures of them from the year (2002 generation) for broad comparison.
Click to view quoted image

Click to view quoted image

Click to view quoted image

lol.

Doesn't make the same. If anything, the 350Z and G35 are similar- and likely roll off of the same assembly line in Japan. The G35 uses a stretched version of the Nissan FM platform that underpins the 350Z.

The Audi TT however has nothing to do with Nissan or Infiniti.

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[Ry]

I don't "continue to insist," seeing as this is the first time I mentioned Motorola and HTC. I am aware there were past issues, and if you can cite the ongoing litigations that would be great. What I did insist before, however, is that apple goes after every device it can make a case against, which is pretty much every device, because there are only so many intuitive designs.

Ongoing litigations-

Apple vs. Motorola in Florida. HTC is listed as a counterclaim defendant. Trial date in 2014.

Apple vs. HTC in Delaware. Court-moderated settlement talks scheduled for September 19th.

Apple vs. HTC in Munich.

Apple vs. HTC in Mannheim.

HTC vs. Apple in the UK.

Apple will go after every device it has a case for. My point is that trade-dress isn't involved in most of the cases and if I recall correctly, trade-dress claims have only been asserted in claims against Samsung.




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[anon(883913)]

Ongoing litigations-

Apple vs. Motorola in Florida. HTC is listed as a counterclaim defendant. Trial date in 2014.

Apple vs. HTC in Delaware. Court-moderated settlement talks scheduled for September 19th.

Apple vs. HTC in Munich.

Apple vs. HTC in Mannheim.

HTC vs. Apple in the UK.

Apple will go after every device it has a case for. My point is that trade-dress isn't involved in most of the cases and if I recall correctly, trade-dress claims have only been asserted in claims against Samsung.




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All of these are still in pretrial phases. It doesn't mean HTC nor Apple will benefit. For all we know the judge could throw the cases out all together! Anyone can sue, heck I could claim I invented the wheel and sue everyone who uses it now but that doesn't mean I would win.

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[Ry]

All of these are still in pretrial phases. It doesn't mean HTC nor Apple will benefit. For all we know the judge could throw the cases out all together! Anyone can sue, heck I could claim I invented the wheel and sue everyone who uses it now but that doesn't mean I would win.

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These are ongoing, debunking the whole "Apple is only going after Samsung" myth.

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