10-03-2012 08:09 AM
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  1. Ry's Avatar
    So from the information I'm reading, Apple must be making a huge a profit on this device. A cut down, basic , optimized OS running on a 1.2 GHz dual core, with a 1400Mah battery. Lol. I can just see the Apple board netting. "What are the lowest we can possibly make the specs, without it being slow?"

    To JBHthree, I'd also point out that from a little research, the Tegra looks like it will still be more powerful for gaming than the A6. I still find it funny that a nearly year old CPU with the latest Android software beats the brand new Apple CPU with the latest Apple software in overall benchmarks, which measure general performance as well. That does not bode well for Apple.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    For the record, the specs for every iPhone have pretty much been "lower" than the Android devices of the time.

    I doubt Apple is losing any sleep over benchmarks.

    Just saying.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 03:00 PM
  2. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    And yet anandtech disagrees. (and that's completely ignoring the software part of the equation, which totally undermines every point you've made thus far)

    You can also stop with the 'its dual core so it's inferiror' line. Apple designed a custom chip that is certainly going to be more expensive than previous versions, and is comparable with all of the high end silicone out there, quad cores included.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    Anandtech doesn't disagree that a tegra device with jellybean beats the iPhone 5 in the benchmarks. Anandtech is making conjecture based on photographs of the architecture. Nowhere in their article do they claim it to be anything more. The fact is that even an old tegra 3 with Jelly Bean beats the A6 in overall benchmarks. And Jellybean is more system intensive than iOS 6. If you tried to run JB with the A6 it would probably kill it. The fact is, at least with jellybean, Android flagship devices outperform the iPhone 5 in both performance and hardware. I'm using facts to back up my argument (benchmarks). I'd like to see you provide some actual data to back up yours besides guesswork from anandtech.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 03:56 PM
  3. JHBThree's Avatar
    Anandtech doesn't disagree that a tegra device with jellybean beats the iPhone 5 in the benchmarks. Anandtech is making conjecture based on photographs of the architecture. Nowhere in their article do they claim it to be anything more. The fact is that even an old tegra 3 with Jelly Bean beats the A6 in overall benchmarks. And Jellybean is more system intensive than iOS 6. If you tried to run JB with the A6 it would probably kill it. The fact is, at least with jellybean, Android flagship devices outperform the iPhone 5 in both performance and hardware. I'm using facts to back up my argument (benchmarks). I'd like to see you provide some actual data to back up yours besides guesswork from anandtech.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    Are you actually being serious right now, or are you trolling? (given your history, trolling is most likely) They matched up parts from Samsung to the new chip, and then dove deep into apples programming tools to find out more information.

    And I'll say it again, since apparently reading is not your strength: the A6 is on a level playing field with the S4. That undermines your point totally and completely.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    09-23-2012 04:10 PM
  4. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    Are you actually being serious right now, or are you trolling? (given your history, trolling is most likely) They matched up parts from Samsung to the new chip, and then dove deep into apples programming tools to find out more information.

    And I'll say it again, since apparently reading is not your strength: the A6 is on a level playing field with the S4. That undermines your point totally and completely.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    I'm sorry you find the need to accuse anyone who points out that you're wrong, or that Apple's new toy isn't the best in the store, of trolling. I'm disappointed.

    Just for your information Anandtech just admitted they were WRONG.

    In their initial article, they said this

    " It's still too early to tell a lot but we have information on a lot of things. The image above shows two 32-bit LPDDR2 memory channels and three GPU cores. We're likely looking at a PowerVR SGX 543MP3 running at 266MHz.
    UBM estimates the die size at 95.04mm2 and the manufacturer as Samsung."

    First of all, they say nothing about how it stacks up to competitors. Second, note how they say "It's too early to tell a lot" and use the word "estimates" Even they admit it's conjecture. Here's what makes you 100% wrong. This is from their follow up article.


    "The custom-designed A6 core is a big step for Apple, whose previous A4 and A5 processors for iPhones and iPads were based on designs adopted from ARM. The A6 is also based on ARM architecture, but after analyzing code, chip size and the architecture, experts have concluded that Apple has designed its own CPU from the ground up rather than licensing an existing processor design."

    There you go. It's not based off of Samsungs chip, their conjecture turned out to be utterly incorrect. That's why it's conjecture. They also still said nothing about how it stacks up to competitors, as you implied. The only information we have about that are benchmarks. And in benchmarks the Tegra 3 with Jellybean wins hands down.

    Please stop accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being a troll. I'm being civil, I'd appreciate if you could grant me the same courtesy.


    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 04:35 PM
  5. reeneebob's Avatar
    Can someone clarify when benchmarks matter? I've seen many a post comparing android phones that benchmarks don't matter, it's the actual real world performance, but when it's not in Apples favour the benchmarks are important and the end all.

    Look, my iphone 4 which is 2 years old runs as smoothly for me as my SGS 3. Benchmarks are just numbers used to prop fanboy arguments.

    Sent from mah brainzzzzz via Galaxy S III and Tapatalk 2
    09-23-2012 04:46 PM
  6. JHBThree's Avatar
    Q
    I'm sorry you find the need to accuse anyone who points out that you're wrong, or that Apple's new toy isn't the best in the store, of trolling. I'm disappointed.

    Just for your information Anandtech just admitted they were WRONG.

    In their initial article, they said this

    " It's still too early to tell a lot but we have information on a lot of things. The image above shows two 32-bit LPDDR2 memory channels and three GPU cores. We're likely looking at a PowerVR SGX 543MP3 running at 266MHz.
    UBM estimates the die size at 95.04mm2 and the manufacturer as Samsung."

    First of all, they say nothing about how it stacks up to competitors. Second, note how they say "It's too early to tell a lot" and use the word "estimates" Even they admit it's conjecture. Here's what makes you 100% wrong. This is from their follow up article.


    "The custom-designed A6 core is a big step for Apple, whose previous A4 and A5 processors for iPhones and iPads were based on designs adopted from ARM. The A6 is also based on ARM architecture, but after analyzing code, chip size and the architecture, experts have concluded that Apple has designed its own CPU from the ground up rather than licensing an existing processor design."

    There you go. It's not made by Samsung, their conjecture turned out to be utterly incorrect. That's why it's conjecture. They also still said nothing about how it stacks up to competitors, as you implied. The only information we have about that are benchmarks. And in benchmarks the Tegra 3 with Jellybean wins hands down.

    Please stop accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being a troll. I'm being civil, I'd appreciate if you could be as well.


    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    Uhh the chip is MANUFACTURED by Samsung. So yes, it's made by Samsung. (and there are Samsung part numbers stamped on the chip, which directly match up to Samsung memory parts)

    And its also convenient that you neglected to include the part of their analysis where they directly state that its performance is comparable to the S4.

    Nice try. But you should work on that whole reading thing.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    09-23-2012 04:47 PM
  7. JHBThree's Avatar
    Can someone clarify when benchmarks matter? I've seen many a post comparing android phones that benchmarks don't matter, it's the actual real world performance, but when it's not in Apples favour the benchmarks are important and the end all.

    Look, my iphone 4 which is 2 years old runs as smoothly for me as my SGS 3. Benchmarks are just numbers used to prop fanboy arguments.

    Sent from mah brainzzzzz via Galaxy S III and Tapatalk 2
    It's all certain fanboys have to fall back on. "Oh yeah, well my chip benchmarks faster than yours". Yeah, it might, but if the rest of the phone is garbage who cares?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    09-23-2012 04:49 PM
  8. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    Can someone clarify when benchmarks matter? I've seen many a post comparing android phones that benchmarks don't matter, it's the actual real world performance, but when it's not in Apples favour the benchmarks are important and the end all.

    Look, my iphone 4 which is 2 years old runs as smoothly for me as my SGS 3. Benchmarks are just numbers used to prop fanboy arguments.

    Sent from mah brainzzzzz via Galaxy S III and Tapatalk 2
    They matter particularly in gaming, web browsing speed and intensive applications. Many benchmarks don't only test hardware, but performance. The efficiency of software can effect scores.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 04:50 PM
  9. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    It's all certain fanboys have to fall back on. "Oh yeah, well my chip benchmarks faster than yours". Yeah, it might, but if the rest of the phone is garbage who cares?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    Those benchmarks base the results off of software performance as well. That means it has faster hardware and faster software as well. That generally means it that it's a more powerful phone. I also noticed how you were lauding early early chip analysis and benchmarks of ICS devices that showed the iPhone 5 had better performance. I'm tired of the double stardard, and the attempts to downplay the fact that the iPhone 5 was released with inferior hardware to it's competitors.

    It seems like a more accurate statement would be "It's all certain fanboys have to fall back on. "Well who cares about stupid benchmarks anyway."
    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 05:19 PM
  10. joshwithachance's Avatar
    The fact that this thread is 24 pages long proves just how good the iPhone is.
    XChrisX and pauldroidr2d2 like this.
    09-23-2012 05:29 PM
  11. Tkbredx's Avatar
    The fact that this thread is 24 pages long proves just how good the iPhone is.
    Or how competitive/proprietary Americans are
    09-23-2012 06:08 PM
  12. The Real X Dawg's Avatar
    The fact that this thread is 24 pages long proves just how good the iPhone is.
    More like how good their marketing is. This thread could easily be edited to fit how there is no real difference between MW, 2, 3, Black Ops and, Black Ops 2. Personally I think CoD fanboys make Apple/Android fans look tranquil.

    Sent from my Jelly Bean chomping Infuse 4G!
    badbrad17 and xlDeMoNiClx like this.
    09-23-2012 06:24 PM
  13. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    The fact that this thread is 24 pages long proves just how good the iPhone is.
    More like it shows how desperate iPhone fanboys are to justify their purchase. Just my opinion and it's not specific to Apple fans.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 06:48 PM
  14. JHBThree's Avatar
    More like it shows how desperate iPhone fanboys are to justify their purchase.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    Who here owns an iPhone 5 besides lodingi?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    09-23-2012 07:00 PM
  15. funkylogik's Avatar
    how bout the Exinos in the int' s3 vs the new iphone chip?

    global s3, UK. Ask me anything and ill reply even if its just an intelligent (or stupid) guess
    09-23-2012 07:46 PM
  16. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    how bout the Exinos in the int' s3 vs the new iphone chip?

    global s3, UK. Ask me anything and ill reply even if its just an intelligent (or stupid) guess
    The quad core S3 won by nearly 200 points with jellybean and lost by 40 points with ICS. Performed about the same as the T3 against the iPhone.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    funkylogik likes this.
    09-23-2012 08:08 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    What benchmarks is everyone looking at? I'm looking at THIS article from Anandtech, and it's pretty easy to read the charts. The green bar for the iPhone 5 is at the top of pretty much every chart (when it's not, it's the iPad, and in one case the LG Optimus G with S4 Pro). So where is everybody getting any data saying that Tegra3 is faster/more powerful? Even the quad-core Exynos is slow next to the iPhone.

    And since when were sites/people not allowed to make educated guesses about products before they're released? Being wrong doesn't discredit them. If anything, I'll give them extra credit for saying they were wrong. But none of that matters now anyway, since they have the phone in hand and have done the benchmarking. The only time nVidia has a chance is with Tegra optimized software, like stuff from the Tegrazone. Otherwise, it shows its age.


    Also, how many warnings will it take for the personal attacks/trolling other members to stop? I'm personally done with warnings and will just hand out some temporary vacations next time it happens.
    jroc and funkylogik like this.
    09-23-2012 08:30 PM
  18. badbrad17's Avatar
    What benchmarks is everyone looking at? I'm looking at THIS article from Anandtech, and it's pretty easy to read the charts. The green bar for the iPhone 5 is at the top of pretty much every chart (when it's not, it's the iPad, and in one case the LG Optimus G with S4 Pro). So where is everybody getting any data saying that Tegra3 is faster/more powerful? Even the quad-core Exynos is slow next to the iPhone.

    And since when were sites/people not allowed to make educated guesses about products before they're released? Being wrong doesn't discredit them. If anything, I'll give them extra credit for saying they were wrong. But none of that matters now anyway, since they have the phone in hand and have done the benchmarking. The only time nVidia has a chance is with Tegra optimized software, like stuff from the Tegrazone. Otherwise, it shows its age.


    Also, how many warnings will it take for the personal attacks/trolling other members to stop? I'm personally done with warnings and will just hand out some temporary vacations next time it happens.
    Sorry sometimes things get of hand Kevin. We appreciate all of the effort you and the rest of the team put into AC.

    Sent from my SGH-T989D using Android Central Forums
    crackberrytraitor likes this.
    09-23-2012 08:55 PM
  19. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    What benchmarks is everyone looking at? I'm looking at THIS article from Anandtech, and it's pretty easy to read the charts. The green bar for the iPhone 5 is at the top of pretty much every chart (when it's not, it's the iPad, and in one case the LG Optimus G with S4 Pro). So where is everybody getting any data saying that Tegra3 is faster/more powerful? Even the quad-core Exynos is slow next to the iPhone.

    And since when were sites/people not allowed to make educated guesses about products before they're released? Being wrong doesn't discredit them. If anything, I'll give them extra credit for saying they were wrong. But none of that matters now anyway, since they have the phone in hand and have done the benchmarking. The only time nVidia has a chance is with Tegra optimized software, like stuff from the Tegrazone. Otherwise, it shows its age.


    Also, how many warnings will it take for the personal attacks/trolling other members to stop? I'm personally done with warnings and will just hand out some temporary vacations next time it happens.
    http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/09/gee...ats-galaxy-s3/

    Ubergizmo says with ICS the S3 lost. With Jellybean it won. The actual numbers show that the S3 won by 181 points with JB and lost by 41 with ICS.


    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 08:55 PM
  20. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    iPhone 5 benchmark: narrowly beats Galaxy S3 [geekbench] | Ubergizmo

    Ubergizmo says with ICS the S3 lost. With Jellybean it won. The actual numbers show that the S3 won by 181 points with JB and lost by 41 with ICS.


    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust the Anandtech tests a little more, specifically because they do off-device rendering for the gaming stuff (this is what we care about right?), because we can all agree that the current high-end chips can run a UI smoothly. That particular article is also full of doubt. "weird for a CPU test" " The latter scored 1560 in the test (we suspect that this is the dual-core U.S version of the GS3)" <--- isn't this the same speculation you argued made the Anandtech stuff inaccurate? And then, they ask people to comment with their scores like that's going to be more controlled than the well documented and repeatable tests that Anandtech runs.

    In a pure CPU test the OS shouldn't make a difference. Clockspeed would, though. This is why we don't like benchmarks around here and say not to use them to base any decisions of which device to buy on them.

    I'm not understanding why this is an issue anyway, Apple doesn't play spec war games. That's why they avoid talking about it, and only say how much faster it is than the previous stuff, and how much better the UI will run, or what users can expect from the performance increase when they get the device. It's marketing, and it works. People don't care about clockspeed, or core counts, or what GPU the phone has, they care about what it will do for them. So Apple makes sure to talk about that (while knowing that they're also probably going to be at the top of the performance heap). What we do know about the GPU (remember, PowerVR is a known quantity in Android devices) it's safe to assume GPU performance is better than what we have so far.

    Also knowing what we know about the S4 and what Qualcomm was able to do with the ArmV7 instruction set it's easy to see how the CPU performance can also be so high.

    I'm having a hard time figuring out how those two conclusions are in any way being argued by anybody. Brand new architecture > 1 year old architecture (much older actually in the case of A9 designs) EVERY SINGLE TIME. How is it any different now that Apple is also doing it?
    Ry likes this.
    09-23-2012 09:09 PM
  21. SteveISU's Avatar
    Who here owns an iPhone 5 besides lodingi?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    I'm trying one.


    Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    funkylogik likes this.
    09-23-2012 09:19 PM
  22. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but I'm going to trust the Anandtech tests a little more, specifically because they do off-device rendering for the gaming stuff (this is what we care about right?), because we can all agree that the current high-end chips can run a UI smoothly. That particular article is also full of doubt. "weird for a CPU test" " The latter scored 1560 in the test (we suspect that this is the dual-core U.S version of the GS3)" <--- isn't this the same speculation you argued made the Anandtech stuff inaccurate? And then, they ask people to comment with their scores like that's going to be more controlled than the well documented and repeatable tests that Anandtech runs.

    In a pure CPU test the OS shouldn't make a difference. Clockspeed would, though. This is why we don't like benchmarks around here and say not to use them to base any decisions of which device to buy on them.

    I'm not understanding why this is an issue anyway, Apple doesn't play spec war games. That's why they avoid talking about it, and only say how much faster it is than the previous stuff, and how much better the UI will run, or what users can expect from the performance increase when they get the device. It's marketing, and it works. People don't care about clockspeed, or core counts, or what GPU the phone has, they care about what it will do for them. So Apple makes sure to talk about that (while knowing that they're also probably going to be at the top of the performance heap). What we do know about the GPU (remember, PowerVR is a known quantity in Android devices) it's safe to assume GPU performance is better than what we have so far.

    Also knowing what we know about the S4 and what Qualcomm was able to do with the ArmV7 instruction set it's easy to see how the CPU performance can also be so high.

    I'm having a hard time figuring out how those two conclusions are in any way being argued by anybody. Brand new architecture > 1 year old architecture (much older actually in the case of A9 designs) EVERY SINGLE TIME. How is it any different now that Apple is also doing it?
    Anandtech didn't run tests on any flagships with jellybean. Geekbench tests overall performance, so I'd value a geekbench test more. And they show that the S3 with Jellybean beats the iPhone 5. I'm going to download geekbench and see what my One X with JB scores.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 09:21 PM
  23. crackberrytraitor's Avatar
    My One X with Jellybean scores a 1594 as opposed to the iPhone 5's 1600. When I clock it to 1.7 GHz it scores 1726. That means when not clocked on high, the One X scores 0.3% lower than the iPhone 5, when overclocked it's 7.8 percent faster. I don't have a Tegra 3 phone, but I'll run geekbench on my N7 which has pretty much identical specs to most Tegra phones.

    Also, I'd point out that geekbench shows the iPhone 5 having 1gb ram, but the One X having only 673. This lowers the score and suggests that processor vs processor, the S4 handily wins.

    Sent from my One X using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 09:38 PM
  24. JHBThree's Avatar
    My One X with Jellybean scores a 1594 as opposed to the iPhone 5's 1600. When I clock it to 1.7 GHz it scores 1726. That means when not clocked on high, the One X scores 0.3% lower than the iPhone 5, when overclocked it's 7.8 percent faster. I don't have a Tegra 3 phone, but I'll run geekbench on my N7 which has pretty much identical specs to most Tegra phones.

    Sent from my One X using Android Central Forums
    Keep in mind the A6 is underclocked to 1ghz.
    09-23-2012 09:41 PM
  25. Ry's Avatar
    In a pure CPU test the OS shouldn't make a difference. Clockspeed would, though. This is why we don't like benchmarks around here and say not to use them to base any decisions of which device to buy on them.

    I'm not understanding why this is an issue anyway, Apple doesn't play spec war games. That's why they avoid talking about it, and only say how much faster it is than the previous stuff, and how much better the UI will run, or what users can expect from the performance increase when they get the device. It's marketing, and it works. People don't care about clockspeed, or core counts, or what GPU the phone has, they care about what it will do for them. So Apple makes sure to talk about that (while knowing that they're also probably going to be at the top of the performance heap).
    Thank you.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    09-23-2012 09:47 PM
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