10-03-2012 08:09 AM
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  1. ryanr509's Avatar
    Why bash so hard?

    Anyone that knows tech as well as the majority of people on here already know Apple will never make a phone as good as a high end android.

    They don't make BAD phones, just not any advanced phones

    you mean to tell me you can put a man on the moon but no one can make a smartphone battery that lasts a whole day? jeez!
    Apple makes a great phone. Some ppl might not like the UI or only having one phone model but apple does more with less tech.im sure if they had 12 different companies making an iphone we would have more options processors screen size all that but we dont. DMy iPhone 4 was buttery smooth with a single core 800mhz processor and 512mb of ram. No forces closes and amazing battery life. 5 hours screen on time on 3g. The only android phone I've has that has come close to the smoothness of ios is my nexus running jellybean. But battery life is not as good on all Androids I've owned (og Droid, Droid x, s2, epic 4g, evo 3d, razr, nexus, note) and all of those have some lag force close problems. Ios is polished and easy to use ans does a lot of things right. U think some 50 year old cares about rooting and roming? Probably not they want to call text and check email and web. For that I'd take an iPhone. I understand ppl don't like the closed platform that iOS is but no reason to bash it like its a POS when it isn't. Ppl complain about apple making only incremental upgrades once a year with a new phone but is rather have it happen once a year and know ur old phone is getting the newest os for years to come. Much better than android where a new phone comes out every month that is barely better than the old model. (Razr vs razr HD anyone) but that is also why ppl love android choice. Like what u will but u complaining about apple acting like its nothing is doing no good but making u look incompetent.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Android Central Forums
    Ry and MERCDROID like this.
    09-06-2012 03:24 PM
  2. delta7's Avatar
    I think if they are going only 4" screen and same boxy design they are missing an opportunity to further define the segment. I think HTC and Samsung have done that rather well as of late. My old TBolt blows away the Iphone S4 in most categories.

    That said, I'm likely getting one. Work stuck us with ipads and I rather like all my stuff to "play nice" together. I'm not super geek, so sue me.
    Your tbolt blows nothing away and im being serious. Don't compare he two. Horrible screen, crappie battery life, riddled with problems, horrible version of sense..... Please.





    Why bash so hard?

    Anyone that knows tech as well as the majority of people on here already know Apple will never make a phone as good as a high end android.

    They don't make BAD phones, just not any advanced phones

    you mean to tell me you can put a man on the moon but no one can make a smartphone battery that lasts a whole day? jeez!
    They make basic phones that just work, it's not geared toward android users, geared toward people who aren't tech savy and just use a phone as a phone. The iphone is pretty enough and runs smoothly enough that you don't need to touch it or customize it at all. Out the box most are happy with it.

    A pretty gui goes a long way to alot of people, ask blackberry for proof. Stock Android is bone cold ugly, theirs a reason for touchwiz, sense and so forth.



    Sent from my PH44100 using Android Central Forums
    09-06-2012 03:35 PM
  3. geer_matt@hotmail.com's Avatar
    Oh man, all this "just works" Apple nonsense makes my head hurt. How about how I could never get my iPhone 3G to connect to my Ubuntu Linux machine? Well not until I already moved to another phone and a later update to Linux finally got it working. Call it a Linux issue but it wasn't, because the older iphone could connect as well as older ipods, but apple made a change that stopped it from working. So what would the apple solution have been at the time?.... Use a Mac! Even S3 owners are constantly posting about how their S3 isn't recognized when connected to their mac. What about all the ipod users I supported at my last firm asking why they can't copy the music on their ipods over to their work pc?

    Sorry, I ain't buying the "just works" bs. I support the iphone and ipad in my current law firm and trust me... It does NOT always "just work".


    Rev.
    Amen to that, Apple does not "just work" apple products do not play nice with a lot of things. My brother is a huge apple fan and he is one of these guys that just has the "I still want apple even though there are better devices" attitude because apple has made him believe having one is also some sort of status symbol on expensive items you can afford.

    I have the Asus infinity 700 tablet, truth be told side by side (yes I have done the comparison) it blows the ipad3 away, anyone tells you different is just an apple fan-boy. As far as working together well "Thank You Google!" because the integration and streaming of my stuff through Google+ and Google Play is flawless, have never had a problem with it, load it on one device and before I can pick up the other one its on there too!

    I mentioned this in another thread before, but the when I purchased my Galaxy S3, turned it on for the first time ever and entered my Gmail account information in less than 5 minutes (I think it actually took about 3) ALL of my pictures, contacts, and app information that was linked to my account auto loaded to my new phone, I didn't have to enter a thing! Walked out of that store with my entire phone set up thanks to "just works" idiom.

    Now as far as any of this Apple vs Android stuff goes here is the most important thing I learned in Economics.
    "You buy the best product, at the best price." Don't be brand loyal.
    If we as consumers hold true to this statement then the companies we buy from will work themselves out and continue to innovate and integrate beautiful devices. I have had apple products before, they are not nearly as much fun or cool as Android.
    09-06-2012 03:39 PM
  4. ryanr509's Avatar
    Amen to that, Apple does not "just work" apple products do not play nice with a lot of things. My brother is a huge apple fan and he is one of these guys that just has the "I still want apple even though there are better devices" attitude because apple has made him believe having one is also some sort of status symbol on expensive items you can afford.

    I have the Asus infinity 700 tablet, truth be told side by side (yes I have done the comparison) it blows the ipad3 away, anyone tells you different is just an apple fan-boy. As far as working together well "Thank You Google!" because the integration and streaming of my stuff through Google+ and Google Play is flawless, have never had a problem with it, load it on one device and before I can pick up the other one its on there too!

    I mentioned this in another thread before, but the when I purchased my Galaxy S3, turned it on for the first time ever and entered my Gmail account information in less than 5 minutes (I think it actually took about 3) ALL of my pictures, contacts, and app information that was linked to my account auto loaded to my new phone, I didn't have to enter a thing! Walked out of that store with my entire phone set up thanks to "just works" idiom.

    Now as far as any of this Apple vs Android stuff goes here is the most important thing I learned in Economics.
    "You buy the best product, at the best price." Don't be brand loyal.
    If we as consumers hold true to this statement then the companies we buy from will work themselves out and continue to innovate and integrate beautiful devices. I have had apple products before, they are not nearly as much fun or cool as Android.
    I like that little quote. I figure someone who is loyal to HTC or moto or ford chevy whatever is just as bad as an apple fan boy is.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Android Central Forums
    09-06-2012 03:44 PM
  5. Ry's Avatar
    "You buy the best product, at the best price." Don't be brand loyal.
    People should buy the best product for their needs at the best price. Your needs and my needs are probably going to be different.

    The thing is - ecosystems are part of the products. Hardware specs don't really matter that much anymore. The ecosystem battle is the more important one.

    And now that you have all your stuff in Google, susprise: you've just become loyal to the Google brand.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    09-06-2012 03:44 PM
  6. GrooveRite's Avatar
    And now that you have all your stuff in Google, susprise: you've just become loyal to the Google brand.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    At least the Google brand plays nice with almost everything. Apple brand, not so much. And just to clear things up here....IF Google decided to close their eco-system and become like Apple....guess what.....I'd DITCH them in a heart beat!! I buy products that suit MY NEEDS, not theirs!! I'm not tied to Google the way most people are tied to Apple. Think about that!
    Rev2010 likes this.
    09-06-2012 03:51 PM
  7. geer_matt@hotmail.com's Avatar

    And now that you have all your stuff in Google, susprise: you've just become loyal to the Google brand.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    I do love the way Google works with my devices for now, yes I am Google loyal, but not blindly. I am because it works well for me like you were saying. Trust me though, if Google slips, if they mess my $hit up, I will be looking for a new way. There is always somebody chomping at the heels of the big dogs.

    We should all get down on our knees and thank the Google Gods for giving us an escape from ios. >.O
    09-06-2012 03:51 PM
  8. EvilMonkey's Avatar
    Ok, I'll chime in with my two cents.

    No forces closes and amazing battery life.
    Except iOS apps do crash more than Android apps (Source). They just don't tell you they're crashing like Android does I have an iPad2 and I have apps just up and close and kick me back to the home screen all the time. They just don't display an error message. I personally think Apple was wise in that regard because it fools people into thinking the apps, and thus the OS, are more stable than it actually is.

    5 hours screen on time on 3g. The only android phone I've has that has come close to the smoothness of ios is my nexus running jellybean. But battery life is not as good on all Androids I've owned (og Droid, Droid x, s2, epic 4g, evo 3d, razr, nexus, note)
    There's obvious reasons for that. Smaller screen and no real multitasking are the major ones. Again, that's the tradeoff that you get better battery life for a small screen and less functionality. I'll take more functionality and a bigger screen with a slightly worse battery life any day, but to each their own. But it really has nothing to do that Apple has some secret advanced battery technology it's using or something like that.

    U think some 50 year old cares about rooting and roming?
    No, but neither do over 99% of Android users. I'll post the link if I can find it again (I think it was actually less than a half percent of Android users root their devices, but can't remember off the top of my head). And less than that are actually using custom ROMs.

    Yet, the "I can use my iPhone without rooting and installing a custom ROM" argument is prevalent in the arguments used against Android, despite that hardly anyone actually does. It just seems like a lot of people do if you frequent tech forums and stuff, but in the grand scheme of things, it's very very few who do.

    Probably not they want to call text and check email and web. For that I'd take an iPhone.
    I am being serious when I ask "why?" Is it harder to set up your email on an Android phone? No. Is it harder to surf the web on an Android phone? No. Is it harder to text on an Android phone? No. But can easily use a different browser, a different email client, a different keyboard, a different texting client on an Android phone? Yes! Not so much on an iPhone. Of course most people are just happy with the default clients....but ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

    Point is, the basics (the things you mention) are just as easy on both devices, and even better on Android.

    Ppl complain about apple making only incremental upgrades once a year with a new phone but is rather have it happen once a year and know ur old phone is getting the newest os for years to come. Much better than android where a new phone comes out every month that is barely better than the old model.
    Well, "better" is your opinion. I think it's worse. But as you said, it's choices.

    Don't get me wrong, you can argue all day you prefer the iPhone, cause I don't care what you buy. But a lot of the same tired arguments ("apps are more stable," "it just works," "it's easier to use") are just a bunch of crap IMO.
    Rev2010, seriyb, MERCDROID and 1 others like this.
    09-06-2012 03:56 PM
  9. JHBThree's Avatar
    Amen to that, Apple does not "just work" apple products do not play nice with a lot of things. My brother is a huge apple fan and he is one of these guys that just has the "I still want apple even though there are better devices" attitude because apple has made him believe having one is also some sort of status symbol on expensive items you can afford.

    I have the Asus infinity 700 tablet, truth be told side by side (yes I have done the comparison) it blows the ipad3 away, anyone tells you different is just an apple fan-boy. As far as working together well "Thank You Google!" because the integration and streaming of my stuff through Google+ and Google Play is flawless, have never had a problem with it, load it on one device and before I can pick up the other one its on there too!

    I mentioned this in another thread before, but the when I purchased my Galaxy S3, turned it on for the first time ever and entered my Gmail account information in less than 5 minutes (I think it actually took about 3) ALL of my pictures, contacts, and app information that was linked to my account auto loaded to my new phone, I didn't have to enter a thing! Walked out of that store with my entire phone set up thanks to "just works" idiom.

    Now as far as any of this Apple vs Android stuff goes here is the most important thing I learned in Economics.
    "You buy the best product, at the best price." Don't be brand loyal.
    If we as consumers hold true to this statement then the companies we buy from will work themselves out and continue to innovate and integrate beautiful devices. I have had apple products before, they are not nearly as much fun or cool as Android.
    Everything you said your S3 and infinity can do, the iPad and iPhone do as well.
    09-06-2012 03:58 PM
  10. geer_matt@hotmail.com's Avatar
    Everything you said your S3 and infinity can do, the iPad and iPhone do as well.
    I know that apple products do that too, it is response to people who defend the apple eco-system by saying "ya but apple products just work." Well... so do Android products. You do not have to be a techie or programmer to enjoy the benefits of Android.
    09-06-2012 04:01 PM
  11. JHBThree's Avatar
    I know that apple products do that too, it is response to people who defend the apple eco-system by saying "ya but apple products just work." Well... so do Android products. You do not have to be a techie or programmer to enjoy the benefits of Android.
    Then explain why I can't connect my S3 to my MacBook pro without jumping through a dozen hoops.
    09-06-2012 04:02 PM
  12. geer_matt@hotmail.com's Avatar
    Then explain why I can't connect my S3 to my MacBook pro without jumping through a dozen hoops.
    And who's fault do you honestly think that is? That has everything to do with apple not playing nice, it has nothing to do with your S3 misbehaving.
    Archienj7 and badbrad17 like this.
    09-06-2012 04:04 PM
  13. Rev2010's Avatar
    Except iOS apps do crash more than Android appsThey just don't tell you they're crashing like Android does I have an iPad2 and I have apps just up and close and kick me back to the home screen all the time.
    I was going to post this very same thing but you took the words right out of my mouth and summed it up so eloquently. When I had the iPhone 3G I had this happen quite often and I didn't have a bazillion apps nor games or anything whacky on my phone. As you said it wouldn't give any message whatsoever, it would just disappear and you'd be back at the home screen. With Android there's a force close message so there's a *name* for it for people to complain with.


    Rev.
    09-06-2012 04:08 PM
  14. ryanr509's Avatar
    Ok, I'll chime in with my two cents.


    Except iOS apps do crash more than Android apps (Source). They just don't tell you they're crashing like Android does I have an iPad2 and I have apps just up and close and kick me back to the home screen all the time. They just don't display an error message. I personally think Apple was wise in that regard because it fools people into thinking the apps, and thus the OS, are more stable than it actually is.


    There's obvious reasons for that. Smaller screen and no real multitasking are the major ones. Again, that's the tradeoff that you get better battery life for a small screen and less functionality. I'll take more functionality and a bigger screen with a slightly worse battery life any day, but to each their own. But it really has nothing to do that Apple has some secret advanced battery technology it's using or something like that.


    No, but neither do over 99% of Android users. I'll post the link if I can find it again (I think it was actually less than a half percent of Android users root their devices, but can't remember off the top of my head). And less than that are actually using custom ROMs.

    Yet, the "I can use my iPhone without rooting and installing a custom ROM" argument is prevalent in the arguments used against Android, despite that hardly anyone actually does. It just seems like a lot of people do if you frequent tech forums and stuff, but in the grand scheme of things, it's very very few who do.


    I am being serious when I ask "why?" Is it harder to set up your email on an Android phone? No. Is it harder to surf the web on an Android phone? No. Is it harder to text on an Android phone? No. But can easily use a different browser, a different email client, a different keyboard, a different texting client on an Android phone? Yes! Not so much on an iPhone. Of course most people are just happy with the default clients....but ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

    Point is, the basics (the things you mention) are just as easy on both devices, and even better on Android.


    Well, "better" is your opinion. I think it's worse. But as you said, it's choices.

    Don't get me wrong, you can argue all day you prefer the iPhone, cause I don't care what you buy. But a lot of the same tired arguments ("apps are more stable," "it just works," "it's easier to use") are just a bunch of crap IMO.
    We'll from personal experience I'm saying those things are better. I have never got kicked from apps never magically restarted the device never a problem with any apps lag or anything. I'm just saying for some ppl the iPhone and the apple ecosystem is a better choice than android. Not everyone wants to change every aspect of their phone or cares about have a 3.7,4,4.3,4.5,4.65,4.7,4.8,5.3 screen sizes and all different kinds of crap to worry about. Pretty easy to pick an iPhone have a great phone In most aspects of the device. From battery life to speed to camera. And not have to worry about "omg is my phone getting the next update!!!" "Holy crap i jsut bought my phone 25 days ago and xxx model came out ans its bettee wtf!!" Because u know it will be supported u know it will be the best iPhone out for 1 year. Not saying that's for everyone but for some ppl yes. As u can see I am in no way an apple fan boy I have a galaxy note and am not going to apple. I'm just defending apple because of all these ppl who act like the iPhone is a Kia and droids are a ferrari or something. Respect other companies as it will only make other phone makers to push more to create something better.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Android Central Forums
    09-06-2012 04:21 PM
  15. Ry's Avatar
    At least the Google brand plays nice with almost everything. Apple brand, not so much. And just to clear things up here....IF Google decided to close their eco-system and become like Apple....guess what.....I'd DITCH them in a heart beat!! I buy products that suit MY NEEDS, not theirs!! I'm not tied to Google the way most people are tied to Apple. Think about that!
    And then all of those games and apps you've purchased for your Android device become useless.

    Apple products suit the needs for some people. No need to bash Apple users because you don't use Apple products.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    09-06-2012 04:21 PM
  16. Ry's Avatar
    I do love the way Google works with my devices for now, yes I am Google loyal, but not blindly. I am because it works well for me like you were saying. Trust me though, if Google slips, if they mess my $hit up, I will be looking for a new way. There is always somebody chomping at the heels of the big dogs.

    We should all get down on our knees and thank the Google Gods for giving us an escape from ios. >.O
    Yet you just said not to be loyal to a brand.



    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    09-06-2012 04:22 PM
  17. Ry's Avatar
    Ok, I'll chime in with my two cents.


    Except iOS apps do crash more than Android apps (Source). They just don't tell you they're crashing like Android does I have an iPad2 and I have apps just up and close and kick me back to the home screen all the time. They just don't display an error message. I personally think Apple was wise in that regard because it fools people into thinking the apps, and thus the OS, are more stable than it actually is.


    There's obvious reasons for that. Smaller screen and no real multitasking are the major ones. Again, that's the tradeoff that you get better battery life for a small screen and less functionality. I'll take more functionality and a bigger screen with a slightly worse battery life any day, but to each their own. But it really has nothing to do that Apple has some secret advanced battery technology it's using or something like that.


    No, but neither do over 99% of Android users. I'll post the link if I can find it again (I think it was actually less than a half percent of Android users root their devices, but can't remember off the top of my head). And less than that are actually using custom ROMs.

    Yet, the "I can use my iPhone without rooting and installing a custom ROM" argument is prevalent in the arguments used against Android, despite that hardly anyone actually does. It just seems like a lot of people do if you frequent tech forums and stuff, but in the grand scheme of things, it's very very few who do.


    I am being serious when I ask "why?" Is it harder to set up your email on an Android phone? No. Is it harder to surf the web on an Android phone? No. Is it harder to text on an Android phone? No. But can easily use a different browser, a different email client, a different keyboard, a different texting client on an Android phone? Yes! Not so much on an iPhone. Of course most people are just happy with the default clients....but ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

    Point is, the basics (the things you mention) are just as easy on both devices, and even better on Android.


    Well, "better" is your opinion. I think it's worse. But as you said, it's choices.

    Don't get me wrong, you can argue all day you prefer the iPhone, cause I don't care what you buy. But a lot of the same tired arguments ("apps are more stable," "it just works," "it's easier to use") are just a bunch of crap IMO.
    I use the default Gmail client on my Bionic. I use the default browser on my Bionic.

    I guess ignorance is bliss.

    It's much easier to show my parents how to use an iPad than it is on an Android tablet.

    It just works.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    ryanr509 likes this.
    09-06-2012 04:26 PM
  18. Rev2010's Avatar
    Everything you said your S3 and infinity can do, the iPad and iPhone do as well.
    Maybe everything he said but they certainly can not do everything an Android device can. If you want we can get into this further, but I'm sure you know there are plenty of features available by default in Android that have been locked out of iOS. *emailing any file type as an attachment, playing many newer types of audio/video formats, flash on the web, etc.


    Rev.
    09-06-2012 04:31 PM
  19. Ry's Avatar
    We'll from personal experience I'm saying those things are better. I have never got kicked from apps never magically restarted the device never a problem with any apps lag or anything. I'm just saying for some ppl the iPhone and the apple ecosystem is a better choice than android. Not everyone wants to change every aspect of their phone or cares about have a 3.7,4,4.3,4.5,4.65,4.7,4.8,5.3 screen sizes and all different kinds of crap to worry about. Pretty easy to pick an iPhone have a great phone In most aspects of the device. From battery life to speed to camera. And not have to worry about "omg is my phone getting the next update!!!" "Holy crap i jsut bought my phone 25 days ago and xxx model came out ans its bettee wtf!!" Because u know it will be supported u know it will be the best iPhone out for 1 year. Not saying that's for everyone but for some ppl yes. As u can see I am in no way an apple fan boy I have a galaxy note and am not going to apple. I'm just defending apple because of all these ppl who act like the iPhone is a Kia and droids are a ferrari or something. Respect other companies as it will only make other phone makers to push more to create something better.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Android Central Forums
    Seems like there are some people that spend more time customizing their Android phones than actually enjoying their Android phones.

    Apparently we all need to be tech savvy, we all need the biggest screens, the fastest processors, the most RAM.. ..even if all of that isn't needed. We need to be able to customize every aspect of our phones. It's more than just running apps, making a voice call, sending a few texts, playing a game or two.

    What's perfect for me has to be perfect for everyone else.

    And we hate "iSheep" but want people to be loyal to Google.

    :rolleyes:



    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    09-06-2012 04:33 PM
  20. JHBThree's Avatar
    And who's fault do you honestly think that is? That has everything to do with apple not playing nice, it has nothing to do with your S3 misbehaving.
    No it doesn't. My galaxy nexus connected just fine. So have most of the other android handsets I've owned. (syncing issues here and there) It certainly doesn't just work though.
    09-06-2012 04:33 PM
  21. JHBThree's Avatar
    Maybe everything he said but they certainly can not do everything an Android device can. If you want we can get into this further, but I'm sure you know there are plenty of features available by default in Android that have been locked out of iOS. *emailing any file type as an attachment, playing many newer types of audio/video formats, flash on the web, etc.


    Rev.
    Most users don't need that. You obviously do. Imagine that, some people use their devices differently, and for a huge chunk of them iOS obviously does everything they need. (also: flash? Really? You are aware that it's been deprecated, right?)
    09-06-2012 04:36 PM
  22. Rev2010's Avatar
    Most users don't need that. You obviously do. Imagine that, some people use their devices differently, and for a huge chunk of them iOS obviously does everything they need. (also: flash? Really? You are aware that it's been deprecated, right?)
    Most users don't need to email anything other than a photo? Seriously? Sorry, but all the users I support in a business environment do, and now that the iPhone has been used in a business environment for years already it's pretty sad to be honest.

    As for flash... so now that flash is being phased out (not actually "deprecated" other than by Apple) does that mean all websites have gotten rid of flash and upgraded their sites to HTML5? Ummm... NO! I still find flash everywhere and I haven't seen all these websites make the switch away from flash just yet. Adobe is still releasing Flash updates for the desktop as well, just got an update only a couple of days ago.


    Rev.
    09-06-2012 04:49 PM
  23. KurtM88's Avatar
    I don't understand the Apple bashing. After having used both iPhone and Android, I can see why the non-technical person might go for Apple. The average person only cares about some web surfing, text messaging, emails and pictures. All of those are easy enough to do with iPhone and it's difficult to get "lost" in the interface. The more technically inclined people who love to customize and don't want to be boxed in with apple's limitations might like android better. That's fine. I don't think the average iPhone user will care if their processor or ram specs aren't as good as the latest android phone.
    They totally take advantage of the non technical people is my problem an I phone for 350 with two year contract

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Android Central Forums
    Archienj7 likes this.
    09-06-2012 05:08 PM
  24. Ry's Avatar
    Most users don't need to email anything other than a photo? Seriously? Sorry, but all the users I support in a business environment do, and now that the iPhone has been used in a business environment for years already it's pretty sad to be honest.

    As for flash... so now that flash is being phased out (not actually "deprecated" other than by Apple) does that mean all websites have gotten rid of flash and upgraded their sites to HTML5? Ummm... NO! I still find flash everywhere and I haven't seen all these websites make the switch away from flash just yet. Adobe is still releasing Flash updates for the desktop as well, just got an update only a couple of days ago.


    Rev.
    Adobe killed mobile flash. People need to move on.


    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    09-06-2012 05:15 PM
  25. Rev2010's Avatar
    Adobe killed mobile flash. People need to move on.
    Still working fine on my phone


    Rev.
    badbrad17 likes this.
    09-06-2012 05:27 PM
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