07-10-2013 01:03 PM
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  1. ledfrog's Avatar
    It's impossible to apply any of those reasons to someone unless you know their specific situation.
    Exactly! Let's get back to arguing about which phones we think are better based on software and specs instead of costs.
    07-03-2013 05:34 PM
  2. return_0's Avatar
    Example: I walk into AT&T right now as a brand new customer and sign up for a 2 year contract and buy a new Galaxy S4 for $200. Let's say my bill came out to be $80 per month with the data, talk and texting options all suited to my needs. So with this example, I got a $650 phone for about $200 (taxes not factored in). I saved $450 because AT&T now has me locked in for 2 years. To them, that means they gave me $450 off my phone so they can earn about $2120 (this is $200 + ($80 x 24) months).

    However, when those 2 years are up, my bill remains at $80 per month. So he's right...just because your contract ends, doesn't mean your bill goes down. NOW as far as I understand it with T-Mobile...it might be different. Since they got rid of contracts, they take that same $450 savings and divide it over a 2 year period and add in that amount to your monthly bill, which in this case would be about $18.75 per month. With that said, your bill would actually go down after 2 years if you stayed with the service. If you leave early, they charge you the remaining balance of the subsidized cost ($450) on your last bill.

    Make sense?
    No, doesn't make sense.

    Because T-Mobile's plans aren't $18.75 cheaper than AT&T's. When comparing comparable plans (actually, the T-Mo plan would still be better), T-Mobile is $70 cheaper. (See my chart posted earlier in the thread. You can verify with the companies' websites if you want)

    So that's what, a $50 savings?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    jdbii likes this.
    07-03-2013 06:28 PM
  3. ledfrog's Avatar
    Because T-Mobile's plans aren't $18.75 cheaper than AT&T's.
    I never said they were. My example would actually make T-Mobile's plans $18.75 more expensive for the first two years. But like I said, I wasn't sure about that. I just remember reading the terms and that was my understanding. Plus, they've recently gotten into some trouble for this and are being forced to process refunds to some customers.
    07-03-2013 06:54 PM
  4. The Hustleman's Avatar
    Warranty with vanilla ish ui, photosphere, wallet.

    Transmitted through spacetime.
    A warranty isn't a functionality of a device.

    I can side load photosphere and get wallet working.


    I don't care about the TouchWiz features. I am currently using a GS3 (until my GS4GE arrives) and have been using it for the past year. The only TouchWiz feature I've ever used is swiping the edge of my hand across the screen to take a screen shot. This is an action that can be accomplished by pushing the home key and the power button at the same time, much more quickly and efficiently than the gimmicky motion gesture. I prefer the leanness of stock Android to the bloatedness of TouchWiz.
    Actually the swipe for screen shot is faster. Just swipe and go.

    And just because you don't want to use the touchwiz features doesn't mean they aren't any good.

    Why buy a phone that does so much only to do so little?

    Example: I walk into AT&T right now as a brand new customer and sign up for a 2 year contract and buy a new Galaxy S4 for $200. Let's say my bill came out to be $80 per month with the data, talk and texting options all suited to my needs. So with this example, I got a $650 phone for about $200 (taxes not factored in). I saved $450 because AT&T now has me locked in for 2 years. To them, that means they gave me $450 off my phone so they can earn about $2120 (this is $200 + ($80 x 24) months).

    However, when those 2 years are up, my bill remains at $80 per month. So he's right...just because your contract ends, doesn't mean your bill goes down. NOW as far as I understand it with T-Mobile...it might be different. Since they got rid of contracts, they take that same $450 savings and divide it over a 2 year period and add in that amount to your monthly bill, which in this case would be about $18.75 per month. With that said, your bill would actually go down after 2 years if you stayed with the service. If you leave early, they charge you the remaining balance of the subsidized cost ($450) on your last bill.

    Make sense?

    Um they don't make 2,120 bucks off of you, they still have to pay the remaining balance of the phone and offer service, you honestly don't know what they really make off of you.

    Subsidy is between 20-30 of your bill.

    Then there is the costs of providing the service and the network etc.




    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    07-03-2013 06:59 PM
  5. return_0's Avatar
    I never said they were. My example would actually make T-Mobile's plans $18.75 more expensive for the first two years. But like I said, I wasn't sure about that. I just remember reading the terms and that was my understanding. Plus, they've recently gotten into some trouble for this and are being forced to process refunds to some customers.
    That doesn't have anything to do with my comment.
    07-03-2013 07:02 PM
  6. ledfrog's Avatar
    Um they don't make 2,120 bucks off of you, they still have to pay the remaining balance of the phone and offer service, you honestly don't know what they really make off of you.

    Subsidy is between 20-30 of your bill.

    Then there is the costs of providing the service and the network etc.
    They do. I didn't say it was all profit for the company. My point was that no matter how you slice it, over $2,000 will come out of your pocket over 2 years. While the company clearly doesn't profit from all that, they are willing to give you the "discount" on the device just to guarantee that they will get that $2,000 at a minimum...all of which will go to pay for their expenses as you mentioned. The other benefit for them is that over that two years, they will market the hell out of more products, services and features that a lot of people will end up paying for...which brings in more money.

    So for $450, they are buying your loyalty and that will almost always turn into more profit for them in time...like after your two years are up. Also, that $20-30 subsidy you talk about is still part of your bill long after you've "paid" for your subsidized phone so they will continue to make more money. I've been with AT&T since 2006 and my bill has remained mostly the same all those years no matter how many subsidized phones I've gotten.

    In other words, the companies are smart to lure people in with contracts.
    07-03-2013 07:08 PM
  7. quietlybrilliant's Avatar
    Because T-Mobile's plans aren't $18.75 cheaper than AT&T's. When comparing comparable plans (actually, the T-Mo plan would still be better), T-Mobile is $70 cheaper. (See my chart posted earlier in the thread. You can verify with the companies' websites if you want)
    I tried to verify it but it's nowhere near your chart. Leaving out a plan for text messaging (which I don't need) AT&T is always *less* expensive than T-Mobile, not more. Even with unlimited SMS it is nowhere near $70 more expensive. Perhaps the rates are dramatically different in your state?
    07-04-2013 12:29 AM
  8. return_0's Avatar
    I tried to verify it but it's nowhere near your chart. Leaving out a plan for text messaging (which I don't need) AT&T is always *less* expensive than T-Mobile, not more. Even with unlimited SMS it is nowhere near $70 more expensive. Perhaps the rates are dramatically different in your state?
    $120+$30

    Is S4 Google Edition a complete waste of 0?-1372918875679.jpg

    Is S4 Google Edition a complete waste of 0?-1372918885717.jpg

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    07-04-2013 02:21 AM
  9. kgbkny's Avatar
    Actually the swipe for screen shot is faster. Just swipe and go.

    And just because you don't want to use the touchwiz features doesn't mean they aren't any good.

    Why buy a phone that does so much only to do so little?
    Not when you have to swipe your palm several times until it finally registers.

    If you like TouchWiz, more power to you. I dislike all OEM overlays (TouchWiz, Sense, Blur, etc.), as they only add gimmicks that bloat the user experience and contribute to extensive delays of software updates. This only becomes worse when carriers are added to the equation. Case and point - AT&T still hasn't rolled out 4.1.2 for it's variant of the GS3.

    What's your definition of doing so little? A phone equipped with stock Android is like a finely tuned muscle car with all the unnecessary fat trimmed. It only improves the experience.
    07-04-2013 09:29 AM
  10. The Hustleman's Avatar
    Not when you have to swipe your palm several times until it finally registers.

    If you like TouchWiz, more power to you. I dislike all OEM overlays (TouchWiz, Sense, Blur, etc.), as they only add gimmicks that bloat the user experience and contribute to extensive delays of software updates. This only becomes worse when carriers are added to the equation. Case and point - AT&T still hasn't rolled out 4.1.2 for it's variant of the GS3.

    What's your definition of doing so little? A phone equipped with stock Android is like a finely tuned muscle car with all the unnecessary fat trimmed. It only improves the experience.
    You may have a defective phone. When I swipe it works the first time.

    Also doing so little is just that, doing so little compared to the regular version.

    Touchwiz improves the experience, I get more.

    More camera features
    More functions
    More options

    Just more


    Now if stock Android caught up with the skins there wouldn't be a need for skins

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    07-04-2013 10:26 AM
  11. quietlybrilliant's Avatar
    But this is not the plans I and everybody else gets when they go to the AT&T website (Cell Phone Plans, Data Plans, Prepaid Plans, & Family Plans from AT&T). For instance I'm getting e.g., a 3 GB amount (adequate for my usage) for $30 and then pay another $39.99 for 450 minutes of talk. That's $70 total. I don't need much SMS given Google talk etc, and am happy paying a few bucks extra a month on a per use basis if I need them. So at the very best you're making a case for sacrificing higher data speed, more talk minutes, and pay-by-use SMS on AT&T for substantially slower data speeds, less talk minutes, yet unlimited SMS on T-Mobile, with both plans being in the $70 range. And you spent a load of bucks to pay your phone up front, so really the AT&T plan is $20 cheaper since it includes the payment of the phone.

    EDIT: Ah, I think the misunderstanding is that you're looking in the mobile share plan section. That's not what most of us would use. Look at the site I sent and you will understand.

    $120+$30

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    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    07-04-2013 12:00 PM
  12. madtowneast's Avatar
    But this is not the plans I and everybody else gets when they go to the AT&T website (Cell Phone Plans, Data Plans, Prepaid Plans, & Family Plans from AT&T). For instance I'm getting e.g., a 3 GB amount (adequate for my usage) for $30 and then pay another $39.99 for 450 minutes of talk. That's $70 total. I don't need much SMS given Google talk etc, and am happy paying a few bucks extra a month on a per use basis if I need them. So at the very best you're making a case for sacrificing higher data speed, more talk minutes, and pay-by-use SMS on AT&T for substantially slower data speeds, less talk minutes, yet unlimited SMS on T-Mobile, with both plans being in the $70 range. And you spent a load of bucks to pay your phone up front, so really the AT&T plan is $20 cheaper since it includes the payment of the phone.

    EDIT: Ah, I think the misunderstanding is that you're looking in the mobile share plan section. That's not what most of us would use. Look at the site I sent and you will understand.
    With T-Mobile at $70 price point you get unlimited talk, text, and web with either postpaid and prepaid. I dont quite see how you got to $70 on a $30 plan with similar features (lets say you can use VOIP for 350 minutes), even considering the phone cost of $450 extra you only pay $18.75 per month over 2 years that brings it to $48.75 per month. Also $20 over 2 years is $480, so you are paying $680 for the phone in the end not $650
    07-04-2013 12:18 PM
  13. 21stNow's Avatar
    You may have a defective phone. When I swipe it works the first time.

    Also doing so little is just that, doing so little compared to the regular version.

    Touchwiz improves the experience, I get more.

    More camera features
    More functions
    More options

    Just more


    Now if stock Android caught up with the skins there wouldn't be a need for skins

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    There's no argument here, you two just have different preferences. You want the features of Touchwiz while kgbkny wants the leanness of stock Android. This is the beauty of having GE devices available, so that everyone can have his or her preferences. Some people don't need or want two different ways to do screenshots while others do. Some people don't want a backyard while others do; this is why there is a market for houses and a market for condos.

    Stock Android does adopt features that are found in skins sometimes. That's part of the reason why most people think that the Jellybean version of Android is better than the Eclair version of Android. Yes it has a smoother operation, but there are also more features. For those that think that the stock Android features are enough, the skinned-versions of Android is a whole bunch of junk that people don't want. For those that enjoy the features of skins, the skinned-versions are still available. The whole world doesn't eat fried chicken, why should everyone be stuck with skinned phones?
    return_0 and kgbkny like this.
    07-04-2013 04:09 PM
  14. Droid4Core's Avatar
    You can make a regular us carrier s4 into a Google edition with little to no effort. I have Att to so I could describe the exact method for you if you wanted. It can be exactly the same down to the boot animation, camera and wallpaper. And in not talking about cyanogem mod as stock. You can flash the exact ROM pulled strait off the Google edition s4 for 400$ cheaper. So in other words(unless your a developer and want a completely unlocked boot loader) its a complete waste of money!

    Sent from my SGH-I337 using AC Forums mobile app
    07-05-2013 01:32 AM
  15. kgbkny's Avatar
    You may have a defective phone. When I swipe it works the first time.

    Also doing so little is just that, doing so little compared to the regular version.

    Touchwiz improves the experience, I get more.

    More camera features
    More functions
    More options

    Just more


    Now if stock Android caught up with the skins there wouldn't be a need for skins

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    No, my phone is just fine. Again, I don't care about gimmicky features that do nothing but bloat up the phone. Same goes with my PCs - if I get a brand name machine, first thing I do is uninstall all the bloat that the manufacturers insist on loading it up with. If you prefer TouchWiz, that's all fine and dandy. However, if TouchWiz was really that much better, don't you think CyanogenMod wouldn't have anywhere nearly as much popularity as it does?

    More functions and more options? I guess you think that more is always better, regardless of whether it actually adds to the value of the device. To each their own, I guess. As far as stock Android catching up with skins. it has surpassed them a long time ago. The only reason why manufacturers insist on skins is to differentiate their devices from one another. I've used quite a few skinned devices and not one of them even comes close to stock Android performance.
    07-05-2013 09:59 AM
  16. maverick96's Avatar
    No, my phone is just fine. Again, I don't care about gimmicky features that do nothing but bloat up the phone. Same goes with my PCs - if I get a brand name machine, first thing I do is uninstall all the bloat that the manufacturers insist on loading it up with. If you prefer TouchWiz, that's all fine and dandy. However, if TouchWiz was really that much better, don't you think CyanogenMod wouldn't have anywhere nearly as much popularity as it does?

    More functions and more options? I guess you think that more is always better, regardless of whether it actually adds to the value of the device. To each their own, I guess. As far as stock Android catching up with skins. it has surpassed them a long time ago. The only reason why manufacturers insist on skins is to differentiate their devices from one another. I've used quite a few skinned devices and not one of them even comes close to stock Android performance.
    I have to say I agree here. Most of the skins do nothing more than diminish performance. And all the rest are gimmicky. Pure android is best as its designed to run as Google intends.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    kgbkny likes this.
    07-05-2013 10:43 AM
  17. return_0's Avatar
    You can make a regular us carrier s4 into a Google edition with little to no effort. I have Att to so I could describe the exact method for you if you wanted. It can be exactly the same down to the boot animation, camera and wallpaper. And in not talking about cyanogem mod as stock. You can flash the exact ROM pulled strait off the Google edition s4 for 400$ cheaper. So in other words(unless your a developer and want a completely unlocked boot loader) its a complete waste of money!

    Sent from my SGH-I337 using AC Forums mobile app
    Can you show me where I can get a regular S4 unlocked for $250?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    07-05-2013 01:34 PM
  18. kgbkny's Avatar
    Can you show me where I can get a regular S4 unlocked for $250?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    I also wouldn't mind seeing where I can get an off contract S4 for $250.
    07-05-2013 01:44 PM
  19. quietlybrilliant's Avatar
    I also wouldn't mind seeing where I can get an off contract S4 for $250.
    His/her point is that the AT&T monthly plan costs that covers the phone subsidization costs the same as plans by other carriers that do not cover it, so get the phone for $199 total.

    And if you don't like the carrier (unlikely) you can always leave AT&T on your first day of service, pay a $350 ETF, and go to T-Mobile with an S4 you got for $350+$199=$549, i.e., $100 cheaper than the overpriced Google Edition version.

    He/she's right that unless you want a completely unlocked bootloader for some reason, the S4 GE is a waste of money.
    07-05-2013 03:08 PM
  20. return_0's Avatar
    His/her point is that the AT&T monthly plan costs that covers the phone subsidization costs the same as plans by other carriers that do not cover it, so get the phone for $199 total.

    And if you don't like the carrier (unlikely) you can always leave AT&T on your first day of service, pay a $350 ETF, and go to T-Mobile with an S4 you got for $350+$199=$549, i.e., $100 cheaper than the overpriced Google Edition version.

    He/she's right that unless you want a completely unlocked bootloader for some reason, the S4 GE is a waste of money.
    You really do not understand the point of getting an unlocked phone.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    07-05-2013 04:47 PM
  21. quietlybrilliant's Avatar
    You got that right.

    You really do not understand the point of getting an unlocked phone.
    gnr_2 and maverick96 like this.
    07-05-2013 05:59 PM
  22. maverick96's Avatar
    You got that right.
    I'll second that.
    gnr_2 likes this.
    07-05-2013 06:28 PM
  23. 21stNow's Avatar
    His/her point is that the AT&T monthly plan costs that covers the phone subsidization costs the same as plans by other carriers that do not cover it, so get the phone for $199 total.

    And if you don't like the carrier (unlikely) you can always leave AT&T on your first day of service, pay a $350 ETF, and go to T-Mobile with an S4 you got for $350+$199=$549, i.e., $100 cheaper than the overpriced Google Edition version.

    He/she's right that unless you want a completely unlocked bootloader for some reason, the S4 GE is a waste of money.
    Clarification, you're not eligible to pay the ETF until the buyer's remorse period is over or on the 15th day in most states. This means that you would also have to pay the service fee for those 15 days, which will decrease the amount of savings that you would have if you did this. You would also have to wait until the ETF cleared AT&T's system before they would unlock the phone in some cases, or pay for an unlock code, which would further decrease your savings. I would prefer not to have to deal with that level of trouble and just buy the phone unlocked in the first place.
    07-05-2013 08:00 PM
  24. The Hustleman's Avatar
    No, my phone is just fine. Again, I don't care about gimmicky features that do nothing but bloat up the phone. Same goes with my PCs - if I get a brand name machine, first thing I do is uninstall all the bloat that the manufacturers insist on loading it up with. If you prefer TouchWiz, that's all fine and dandy. However, if TouchWiz was really that much better, don't you think CyanogenMod wouldn't have anywhere nearly as much popularity as it does?

    More functions and more options? I guess you think that more is always better, regardless of whether it actually adds to the value of the device. To each their own, I guess. As far as stock Android catching up with skins. it has surpassed them a long time ago. The only reason why manufacturers insist on skins is to differentiate their devices from one another. I've used quite a few skinned devices and not one of them even comes close to stock Android performance.
    Functions agent gimmicks.

    They work and work well.

    Android has not caught up with touchwiz or sense, not even close.

    Name 5 things stock Android can do that skinned Android can't.

    Go ahead, I'll wait!

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    07-05-2013 09:12 PM
  25. The Hustleman's Avatar
    Can you show me where I can get a regular S4 unlocked for $250?

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    Verizon wireless

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    07-05-2013 09:12 PM
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