S4 will using snapdragon 600 CPU?

thebizz

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Also keep in mind the exynos has a lot more memory bandwidth than the s600 its on par with the a5x/6x which is 12.8gbs which Qualcomm won't match until the s800 but I'm still not sure I want the octa maybe if they lop off two a15 cores I would be more inclined to say yes. Or they can add two a7 cores to the 5250 but the sgx543mp3 seems like a step back from the arm Mali t604
 

Kevin OQuinn

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This one is easy... the Exynos is easily the better chip.

CPU
Snapdragon 600: quad core krait 300.
krait 300 has an IPC (instructions per clock) about 0.7 - 0.8 that of a ARM cortex A15. Remember Qualcomm gave up performance for efficiency.

Exynos Octa: quad core A15 + quad core A7 (big.little architecture).
you get the power sipping benefits of the A7s with the top end performance of the A15. The price you pay for this is in die size, i.e. costs more.

Conclusion: if the two chips have the same clock speed, which current rumors seem to show, then the Exynos will be 20-30% faster from a compute perspective.

GPU
Snapdragon 600: Adreno 320.
same GPU that is found in the Qualcomm S4 Pro with an increased clock (estimated 15-20% increase in performance)

Exynos Octa: Imagination SGX 544MP3
Pretty much same chip as found in iPhone 5 (with added DX10 support) but clocked at 533MHz instead of 300MHz like the iPhone, nearly double the clock.

Conclusion: The iPhone 5 GPU already beat the Adreno 320 of the S4 Pro by a good margin in most benchmarks. With the large increase to clock speed the Octa should easily take this category as well.

References
Exynos Octa: AnandTech - Samsung Details Exynos 5 Octa Architecture & Power at ISSCC '13

Snapdragon 600: AnandTech - Qualcomm's Next-Gen Krait 400 & Krait 300 Announced in Snapdragon 800 & 600 SoCs

GPU comparison, offscreen tests are most telling since they normalize to common resolution (compare nexus 4 (adreno 320) to Iphone 5 (sgx 543MP3)): AnandTech - Google Nexus 4 Review - Google's new Flagship

Too bad it's still not as fast as the Tegra 4. :) Be sure to click the source on THIS ARTICLE.

Octa is overrated IMO. I'm sure it'll be fast and all that, but it's really nothing special. (companion cores have been around since Tegra 3, if not before)
 

thebizz

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I dont know we will have to see them both in power and heat constrained phones to truly judge it. The biggest difference will come in the GPU and companion cores. Were the tegra 4 will lean on its a15 cores. As opposed to the octa than can lean on its a7 cores for quite a bit longer. Now this is in no way downing the t4 because I know it is a monster
Edit
Not to diminish what Qualcomm has done but the s4 s4pro and 600 I believe are over rated. The pro and 600 will have a hard time keeping up with the new a15 chip sets. Which is probably why the 800 is being released bringing the memory bandwidth up to par but using an extreme clock speed to make up for the generational differences
 

Kevin OQuinn

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I dont know we will have to see them both in power and heat constrained phones to truly judge it. The biggest difference will come in the GPU and companion cores. Were the tegra 4 will lean on its a15 cores. As opposed to the octa than can lean on its a7 cores for quite a bit longer. Now this is in no way downing the t4 because I know it is a monster

The T4 has an A15 companion core clocked lower. Judging by the power tables I've seen at the clockspeed they have it at power consumption should be good on the companion core.

Also, it looks like the Octa won't be able to use the A7 and A15 cores at the same time. It's one or the other. Depending on the work load that could be a not good situation.
 

thebizz

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Didn't see that the t4 was using an a15 companion core. Which is cool and I see why they did it but to tell me that its not good to use 4 cores as a companion core that even at their max speed still sip less than 1w isn't a good alternative. I will not say which one is better due to me not using either but I think they will be great alternatives for smart phone buyers in the future. And BTW what did nvidia run said benchmarks on because that could be one huge reason why you see a difference in scores
Edit
Saw it was done on a tablet which explains quite a bit in my mind. I can almost guaranty the t4 had much more power to burn running in a tablet and was also less susceptible to heat by not being packed in a thin phone casing
Looks like that one a15 core is really efficient playing a 1080p video using about than 950mw
 
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Kevin OQuinn

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Didn't see that the t4 was using an a15 companion core. Which is cool and I see why they did it but to tell me that its not good to use 4 cores as a companion core that even at their max speed still sip less than 1w isn't a good alternative. I will not say which one is better due to me not using either but I think they will be great alternatives for smart phone buyers in the future. And BTW what did nvidia run said benchmarks on because that could be one huge reason why you see a difference in scores
Edit
Saw it was done on a tablet which explains quite a bit in my mind. I can almost guaranty the t4 had much more power to burn running in a tablet and was also less susceptible to heat by not being packed in a thin phone casing
Looks like that one a15 core is really efficient playing a 1080p video using about than 950mw

Yep. I'd guess (and it is just a guess) that the power use is about the same between the two solutions. nVidia's probably has a smaller physical footprint, though, at least judging by the die pics of the Octa, and assuming a similar core size between the Samsung and Nvidia A15 core. So that leaves it to the GPU to determine the performance champ. Preliminary reports on both solutions point toward the nVidia ULP GeForce being the winner. There are other things to consider that aren't performance related, like the ISP.

I will of course want to see them both in action, and they'll both be plenty fast, but nVidia still has the Tegrazone. It's the trump card.
 

OC Nut

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The T4 has an A15 companion core clocked lower. Judging by the power tables I've seen at the clockspeed they have it at power consumption should be good on the companion core.

Also, it looks like the Octa won't be able to use the A7 and A15 cores at the same time. It's one or the other. Depending on the work load that could be a not good situation.

The video of the Exynos Octa tablet at MWC showed simultaneous use of A7 and A15 cores (with a total of 4 cores active). I think the Octa is not meant to use all *8* cores at once (although I've read that it theoretically could), but I think it does allow a mixture of A7s and A15s at the same time (if the tablet demo isn't lying).
 

Kevin OQuinn

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The video of the Exynos Octa tablet at MWC showed simultaneous use of A7 and A15 cores (with a total of 4 cores active). I think the Octa is not meant to use all *8* cores at once (although I've read that it theoretically could), but I think it does allow a mixture of A7s and A15s at the same time (if the tablet demo isn't lying).

According to Anandtech it won't be like that initially. Specifically this section:

While it's possible for you to use both in parallel, initial software implementations will likely just allow you to run on the A7 or A15 clusters and switch based on performance requirements.
 

Auzo

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Too bad it's still not as fast as the Tegra 4. :) Be sure to click the source on THIS ARTICLE.

Octa is overrated IMO. I'm sure it'll be fast and all that, but it's really nothing special. (companion cores have been around since Tegra 3, if not before)

Never said it was. This thread was about the SoC inside the GS4 and the T4 isn't an option. Between the two option on the table, although the snapdragon 600 has all but been ruled out, the Octa is easily the best choice.

With that said, the T4 is a beast and would take the overall performance crown based on the released benchmarks, at least assuming it isn't severely thermal limited in a phone use case. I think the T4's biggest problem is going to be power consumption. I'll reserve judgement until we get actual phone with it inside but I'm not quite sure how well the companion core will end up working out.

The video of the Exynos Octa tablet at MWC showed simultaneous use of A7 and A15 cores (with a total of 4 cores active). I think the Octa is not meant to use all *8* cores at once (although I've read that it theoretically could), but I think it does allow a mixture of A7s and A15s at the same time (if the tablet demo isn't lying).

Please provide a link to this video because that goes against everything I have seen about the Octa. There is an implementation of big.little that can use the two groups simultaneously, but that isn't supposed to be the implementation that Samsung ended up going with for the Octa. You scale as needed on one group of CPUs and once the workload is to much for the 4 A7s you switch over the the group of A15s.
 

Kevin OQuinn

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Never said it was. This thread was about the SoC inside the GS4 and the T4 isn't an option. Between the two option on the table, although the snapdragon 600 has all but been ruled out, the Octa is easily the best choice.

With that said, the T4 is a beast and would take the overall performance crown based on the released benchmarks, at least assuming it isn't severely thermal limited in a phone use case. I think the T4's biggest problem is going to be power consumption. I'll reserve judgement until we get actual phone with it inside but I'm not quite sure how well the companion core will end up working out.



Please provide a link to this video because that goes against everything I have seen about the Octa. There is an implementation of big.little that can use the two groups simultaneously, but that isn't supposed to be the implementation that Samsung ended up going with for the Octa. You scale as needed on one group of CPUs and once the workload is to much for the 4 A7s you switch over the the group of A15s.

Who said the T4 is ruled out? nVidia doesn't make phones. They'll sell to whoever wants to buy. Whether Samsung wants buy, though, is an entirely different question. :)
 

OC Nut

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Never said it was. This thread was about the SoC inside the GS4 and the T4 isn't an option. Between the two option on the table, although the snapdragon 600 has all but been ruled out, the Octa is easily the best choice.

With that said, the T4 is a beast and would take the overall performance crown based on the released benchmarks, at least assuming it isn't severely thermal limited in a phone use case. I think the T4's biggest problem is going to be power consumption. I'll reserve judgement until we get actual phone with it inside but I'm not quite sure how well the companion core will end up working out.


Please provide a link to this video because that goes against everything I have seen about the Octa. There is an implementation of big.little that can use the two groups simultaneously, but that isn't supposed to be the implementation that Samsung ended up going with for the Octa. You scale as needed on one group of CPUs and once the workload is to much for the 4 A7s you switch over the the group of A15s.



Yes, see this video, at around 0:45 - 0:55. According to the demo, load is being shared between the A7s and A15s.

"Samsung Exynos Octa reference tablet hands-on" - Videos - Viddler
 

thebizz

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To tell the truth if the us version gets the s600 I will wait it out for something else like the note3 or a phone using the t4. After doing more research the s600 is kinda underwhelming. I have a feeling it will be in the same category as the t3
 

Kevin OQuinn

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To tell the truth if the us version gets the s600 I will wait it out for something else like the note3 or a phone using the t4. After doing more research the s600 is kinda underwhelming. I have a feeling it will be in the same category as the t3

S600 is faster than T3, but T4 is where it's at. For sure.
 

JHBThree

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Yes, see this video, at around 0:45 - 0:55. According to the demo, load is being shared between the A7s and A15s.

"Samsung Exynos Octa reference tablet hands-on" - Videos - Viddler

The chip will not be able to use both sets of cores, or even a mixture of them, at the same time. The demo might have, but the software that controls it won't allow it on actual devices. (It's one set or the other) There's also a lot of concern about latency with switching because of their implementation.
 

thebizz

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My bad i Should have explained myself more in the previous post. I meant that the s600 will be like the t3 was. Because it will be first to the market and quickly overshadow because its an inferior product. Especially when you compare the s600 to the t4 and octa that have 4 a15 cores that are 30% faster per clock, more memory bandwidth etc.
Edit
Don't really think latency will be a huge issue with this chip. Have you looked at how much memory band with this thing has and how high its clocked, and I'm not sure if using a mixture of the cores isn't something that can't be fixed with a software update. Unless its a hardware limiter on it I wouldn't worry to much. Also keep in mind this is all rumor until these phones hit shelves
 

JHBThree

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My bad i Should have explained myself more in the previous post. I meant that the s600 will be like the t3 was. Because it will be first to the market and quickly overshadow because its an inferior product. Especially when you compare the s600 to the t4 and octa that have 4 a15 cores that are 30% faster per clock, more memory bandwidth etc.
Edit
Don't really think latency will be a huge issue with this chip. Have you looked at how much memory band with this thing has and how high its clocked, and I'm not sure if using a mixture of the cores isn't something that can't be fixed with a software update. Unless its a hardware limiter on it I wouldn't worry to much. Also keep in mind this is all rumor until these phones hit shelves

At a semiconductor conference where Samsung detailed that the switching was software controlled, there was actually a lot of concern. Electrical engineers that are knowledgeable about it said point blank that the fact that its software based means its slow.
 

thebizz

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Still fail to see how it will be slower because the cores will be controlled by the android kernel. The kernel will simply hot plug the cores not in use and ramp them up when needed. Now I may not be an electrical engineer but the only worry if not having shared l2 cache. But as I said the memory should be fast enough to make this a non issue
 

Kevin OQuinn

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Still fail to see how it will be slower because the cores will be controlled by the android kernel. The kernel will simply hot plug the cores not in use and ramp them up when needed. Now I may not be an electrical engineer but the only worry if not having shared l2 cache. But as I said the memory should be fast enough to make this a non issue

It all depends on how things are implemented at the hardware level. Technically there are two four core CPU's on the same die. Not one single eight core CPU. As I pointed out above, mix and matching the A15 and A7 cores won't happen initially. At least that's what Anandtech was told by people that definitely know.

My guess is that it has something to do with how it presents itself to the scheduler.
 

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