12-01-2013 07:20 PM
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  1. TBolt's Avatar
    Some of the Hate is coming from the community that is expecting continuous major changes to Smart Phones as we've seen in the past several years. From what's been coming out recently most Flagship phones (let's stick to android for the moment) have comparable HW, mostly the same OS and are being differentiated by their Skins ie touchwiz/sense etc, which then becomes users choice. Take out removable battery / sd (some live and die by it others not so much) and they all become very similar. Add on top of any brand the top 20 most used apps installed and they are very much alike. So what are we left with? A phone, very smart and capable ones. I seem to feel we're getting very close the to the 'desktop/laptop' stage where most are very similar and capable of doing the same tasks. That all said we've grown used to big changes, much better performance, dazzled with features but let's face it, there are only going to be so many until another major breakthrough in usability is created, or perhaps the next outlandish / revolutionary Technology gadget someone creates that drives us all in that direction. We will see phone evolution curve flatten but track with technology in size/speed and power consumption but I'm questioning any real changes. For us that's good, we're reaching the platform plateau, but for the mfgs it's a quandary since now why will people upgrade for margin improvements and spend those hard earned dollars.

    Let's face it, Nokia was the worlds leading phone for many years, Blackberry changed much of that with their platforms, then along comes Apple, now it's Samsung's turn but my faith in capitalism leave me hopeful, someone who wants to make alot of money will figure out the next level.. then we'll be off to the races once again
    Most of the updates I care about now are in software - none of which my phone will ever see officially. Having had 2 HTC phones now, I have found HTC's (and Verizon's) unwillingness to update an in-contract phone to be appalling & irritating. I do not mean to single out HTC here - that's just where my personal experience lies.

    We allow OEMs & carriers to manipulate us by blocking software updates. (My rooted phone runs the new features that HTC said wasn't possible on my device.)

    I read that evidence of Google Now for iOS & Windows 8 has been found. Those devices will have a better Google experience than my Android phone.

    If Samsung has earned a reputation of frequent updates without interference from Verizon, that is a HUGE selling point for me now.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    03-18-2013 06:36 AM
  2. Cattails_r_Edible's Avatar
    Why all the hate? You can start with the cheap plastic build, and then the horrendous pentile display! Sammy forgot it was 2013

    Remember what the doormouse said, feed your head!
    03-18-2013 07:11 AM
  3. The Hustleman's Avatar
    Reps are not commissioned by the phone they sell. They get their commission by the contract. There can be phone spiffs which is different. And how do I know this? I used to sell wireless.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note2
    Well it does depend on the phone to


    For example now if I sell a galaxy note 2 on a contract, I get 30 for a new act, 20 for an upgrade, but if I sell a GS3, i get 60/50.

    Now EOL devices is when those spiffs come in!

    Incredible 4g? 50 dollar spiff on top of the 60/50 commission.

    Spectrum? 60/50 but there is a 60 dollar spiff plus it's free out the door

    Pantec breakout? I get the regular 65/55 plus a 50$ spiff! Then the phone itself is free. I had a customer that wanted to be a jerk with me a week ago saw the 50 dollar price posted for the phone so I sold it to him for that, earned myself an extra 25.

    Spiffs are nice, but commission is different on each phone


    sent from the best smart phone (not phablet) on the worst network- the galaxy S III unfortunately on T-Mobile
    03-18-2013 08:35 AM
  4. xlDeMoNiClx's Avatar
    Why all the hate? You can start with the cheap plastic build, and then the horrendous pentile display! Sammy forgot it was 2013

    Remember what the doormouse said, feed your head!
    Not cheap and Jerry reported in his hands on article the display was gorgeous. There go your reasons for blind hatred.
    crester, Premium1, jj2339 and 1 others like this.
    03-18-2013 08:41 AM
  5. Ry's Avatar
    (My rooted phone runs the new features that HTC said wasn't possible on my device.)
    Did they say those new feature weren't possible or weren't possible to be done well? There's a difference.
    Aquila likes this.
    03-18-2013 11:38 AM
  6. TBolt's Avatar
    Did they say those new feature weren't possible or weren't possible to be done well? There's a difference.
    When the phone is left off the public update announcement, it doesn't matter how they said it. The newer features do work well. HTC (and/or Verizon) are just manipulating the market by blocking the updates. It's their game, and we allow it.

    And, of course, this phone runs much better rooted than it did stock.

    Anyway, in response to the earlier post about upgrades, I am saying there is a software component that deserves equal attention. I just want to see Android devices across the board get the updates we deserve. So far, HTC gets a C- grade in this respect.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    03-18-2013 12:24 PM
  7. cormaster628's Avatar
    Is it pentile? It's got a dpi rating right up there with the one.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    03-18-2013 01:27 PM
  8. omniusovermind's Avatar

    Anyway, in response to the earlier post about upgrades, I am saying there is a software component that deserves equal attention. I just want to see Android devices across the board get the updates we deserve. So far, HTC gets a C- grade in this respect.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    I'm with you but I think you're too kind. I'll never buy an OEM android again unless things drastically change. Judging by Samsung's launch where they made it very clear they're pushing Samsung and trying to push any mention of Google or Android into the background, I'm not veering from my chosen Google branded only course.
    03-18-2013 01:46 PM
  9. Ry's Avatar
    I'm with you but I think you're too kind. I'll never buy an OEM android again unless things drastically change. Judging by Samsung's launch where they made it very clear they're pushing Samsung and trying to push any mention of Google or Android into the background, I'm not veering from my chosen Google branded only course.
    To you, does customizing Android take away from the spirit of Android?

    To me, it doesn't. In fact, I'm a firm believer that every OEM should customize Android to their liking. It's an open platform that allows for that.
    jj2339 likes this.
    03-18-2013 02:20 PM
  10. TBolt's Avatar

    To me, it doesn't. In fact, I'm a firm believer that every OEM should customize Android to their liking. It's an open platform that allows for that.
    I know comment was not directed to me, but saying this anyway.

    When an OEM lies about the phone's capabilities to handle updates (to Android or OEM customization of Android) for the sake of conning you into buying a new phone, well ... that is REALLY starting to leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
    03-18-2013 02:26 PM
  11. Chinookman's Avatar
    From a practical point of use, the specs are better then my Atrix-2 for one.
    Second: the weather station read out will be great for the shooting community. The built in weather station will be a big plus when building a shooting solution app...that is one less device the hobbyist needs to acquire.
    Third: The Sammy accessories for heart rate / work out monitor is better then have a another device like the Polar Monitor.

    So it streamlines my need for less accessories and the specs of micro-pixels versus pixie dust and all that mumbo jumbo seems to be simple bragging rights over bug-dust...I rarely have personally encountered many users of any device that was on a regular basis able to thrash the device to the max or even had the talent to do so. From hot rods 68'GTX, ZX-1000 Ninja's, C-280's to high dollar guitars, it appears that phones are much more status symbols then then practical tools of daily mundane tasks at work. More like a "HEY LOOK AT ME I'm really kool" factor. It is funny to see all the hysteria and passion here like the Black Berry Forum I've quit visiting for that very same reason although we are not nearly as rabid over here........y-e-t......lol.....

    I have no hate for this or any device it is merely a tool and at this time I'm in the market for one. And this seems to be a gem that will meet my needs......hope you all find yours as well......
    Premium1 likes this.
    03-18-2013 03:02 PM
  12. Ry's Avatar
    I know comment was not directed to me, but saying this anyway.

    When an OEM lies about the phone's capabilities to handle updates (to Android or OEM customization of Android) for the sake of conning you into buying a new phone, well ... that is REALLY starting to leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
    Every manufacturer is out to take your money. Once they already have it... tough. Every single one holds something back.

    Google: Nexus S can run 4.1.2 but not 4.2.x?
    Apple: Sure, the iPhone 3GS can be updated to iOS 6.1.x - but it doesn't get all of it's features.

    The list goes on and on.

    Honestly, people should get over it.
    cormaster628 and onick like this.
    03-18-2013 03:10 PM
  13. pblakk's Avatar
    I know comment was not directed to me, but saying this anyway.

    When an OEM lies about the phone's capabilities to handle updates (to Android or OEM customization of Android) for the sake of conning you into buying a new phone, well ... that is REALLY starting to leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
    You forgot about the carriers.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
    03-18-2013 03:14 PM
  14. cormaster628's Avatar
    Every manufacturer is out to take your money. Once they already have it... tough. Every single one holds something back.

    Google: Nexus S can run 4.1.2 but not 4.2.x?
    Apple: Sure, the iPhone 3GS can be updated to iOS 6.1.x - but it doesn't get all of it's features.

    The list goes on and on.

    Honestly, people should get over it.
    I really think manufacturers should change their updating methods anyway. Let's get real, being on the latest and greatest version of android doesn't matter, because touchwiz and sense aren't skins, they are android based oses. Updates take forever because they basically have to rebase their whole os on the newest version of android.

    Then things get messey. You end up with the one x+ launching running a newer version of the software than the original, and people get cranky. And in my case, I've found updates to be half assed every time, they always break more things than they fix. Take my vivid, it was an incredible phone on gingerbread 2.3.4,then came ics 4.03 and it went from being great to terrible. And it never saw a single update after that.

    So this is how it should be. Manufacturers should launch all their phones on the same version the year they release them and just keep them on that os, providing stability and performance updates in the meantime. Once the new flagship arrives, that's when they update the previous years phones, and if they limit features so be it. After 2 years, then they stop supporting them, because by then most people won't own the device anymore anyway. Sound familiar? It's the ios way, and its the perfect way.

    This method would provide better updates and keep their phones enjoyable and usable. I know with my vivid I didn't even care if I got jellybean, I just wanted an update to 4.04, and bug fixes and patches to sense yet that never came.

    I think my idea would work better. Because truth be told, too much is made out of said version of android. Again they aren't android devices, they are android based os devices, and no Kindle owner is demanding an update to jelly bean because amazon is smart enough to not fall into that trap.

    But in the meantime, yeah gotta get over it, no manufacturer does updates right.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    03-18-2013 05:31 PM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    I really think manufacturers should change their updating methods anyway. Let's get real, being on the latest and greatest version of android doesn't matter, because touchwiz and sense aren't skins, they are android based oses. Updates take forever because they basically have to rebase their whole os on the newest version of android.

    Then things get messey. You end up with the one x+ launching running a newer version of the software than the original, and people get cranky. And in my case, I've found updates to be half assed every time, they always break more things than they fix. Take my vivid, it was an incredible phone on gingerbread 2.3.4,then came ics 4.03 and it went from being great to terrible. And it never saw a single update after that.

    So this is how it should be. Manufacturers should launch all their phones on the same version the year they release them and just keep them on that os, providing stability and performance updates in the meantime. Once the new flagship arrives, that's when they update the previous years phones, and if they limit features so be it. After 2 years, then they stop supporting them, because by then most people won't own the device anymore anyway. Sound familiar? It's the ios way, and its the perfect way.

    This method would provide better updates and keep their phones enjoyable and usable. I know with my vivid I didn't even care if I got jellybean, I just wanted an update to 4.04, and bug fixes and patches to sense yet that never came.

    I think my idea would work better. Because truth be told, too much is made out of said version of android. Again they aren't android devices, they are android based os devices, and no Kindle owner is demanding an update to jelly bean because amazon is smart enough to not fall into that trap.

    But in the meantime, yeah gotta get over it, no manufacturer does updates right.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Yeah a lot of people don't get the difference between a fork and a skin. Touchwiz isn't something on top of AOSP; it's 100% different in every aspect. This is one of the reasons that Sammy makes redundant features to what AOSP already has... it's easier for them to code in their own version than to start from scratch with Google's.
    Ry and TheOtherBill like this.
    03-18-2013 06:00 PM
  16. Ry's Avatar
    I really think manufacturers should change their updating methods anyway. Let's get real, being on the latest and greatest version of android doesn't matter, because touchwiz and sense aren't skins, they are android based oses. Updates take forever because they basically have to rebase their whole os on the newest version of android.

    Then things get messey. You end up with the one x+ launching running a newer version of the software than the original, and people get cranky. And in my case, I've found updates to be half assed every time, they always break more things than they fix. Take my vivid, it was an incredible phone on gingerbread 2.3.4,then came ics 4.03 and it went from being great to terrible. And it never saw a single update after that.

    So this is how it should be. Manufacturers should launch all their phones on the same version the year they release them and just keep them on that os, providing stability and performance updates in the meantime. Once the new flagship arrives, that's when they update the previous years phones, and if they limit features so be it. After 2 years, then they stop supporting them, because by then most people won't own the device anymore anyway. Sound familiar? It's the ios way, and its the perfect way.

    This method would provide better updates and keep their phones enjoyable and usable. I know with my vivid I didn't even care if I got jellybean, I just wanted an update to 4.04, and bug fixes and patches to sense yet that never came.

    I think my idea would work better. Because truth be told, too much is made out of said version of android. Again they aren't android devices, they are android based os devices, and no Kindle owner is demanding an update to jelly bean because amazon is smart enough to not fall into that trap.

    But in the meantime, yeah gotta get over it, no manufacturer does updates right.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    The iOS way works because it's a normally yearly cycle.

    Look at Android's version history at the API level. I crunched some numbers. Android 1.0 was released on September 23, 2008. Android 4.2 was released on November 13, 2012. We are now at API level 17.

    From Android 1.0 (API level 1) to Android 4.2 (API level 17), the average number of days between API level update is 100.8 days. Shortest jump was Android 2.0 (API level 5) to 2.0.1 (API level 6) which was 35 days. Longest was actually Android 4.0.3 (API level 15, includes 4.0.4) to Android 4.1 (API level 16) which was 206 days.

    If I broke it down to specific versions (ex 2.2 Froyo release 4 versions, 2.2, 2.2.1, 2.2.2, 2.2.3) those number of days would be much smaller.

    Android updates too fast.

    And OEM customization's make a lot of the customer-facing enhancements to the OS moot anyway.

    Once you begin to treat Android as an embedded OS (for the most part, Android Central's view - see blogposts, listen to podcasts), needing to be updated doesn't seem as important. IMO, security fixes are the most important fixes Android owners should be clamoring for. Actually, security fixes are the only thing Google and the OEMs should promise. I agree. It would be nice to be on the latest greatest version of Android. But Android's rapid pace coupled with Android's openness (one of the beauties of Android), getting every updated for every new AOSP release doesn't seem realistic.

    If updates are an important factor for you, there is NO reason why you shouldn't be using a Nexus 4 as your phone right now. Buying an Android-based HTC or Samsung phone, then complaining about the lack of updates is sort of silly.
    03-18-2013 06:12 PM
  17. Aquila's Avatar
    If updates are an important factor for you, there is NO reason why you shouldn't be using a Nexus
    There's no way this can be said enough.
    03-18-2013 06:18 PM
  18. Johnly's Avatar
    And those with a Samsung phone, are getting updates. Samsung does have a good track record. The original note is getting an update. Love that Samsung, and give me key lime pie.
    03-18-2013 06:18 PM
  19. Johnly's Avatar
    I need Verizon. Only network worth a darn in the rocky mountains. Otherwise, a nexus on tmo would be just fine. Nobody is getting faster updates than a nexus.
    TBolt likes this.
    03-18-2013 06:21 PM
  20. cormaster628's Avatar
    If updates are an important factor for you, there is NO reason why you shouldn't be using a Nexus 4 as your phone right now. Buying an Android-based HTC or Samsung phone, then complaining about the lack of updates is sort of silly.
    Yep. Exactly why I went that route.

    But what I'm saying in a nutshell if oems feel the need to update, then they outta do it on a yearly cycle instead of the mess it is now. Basically on launch day for the one, all of HTCs 2012 line would get 4.1.2 with sense 5. And then this year htc only provides stability and performance updates to the 2012 and 2013 lines, and come next year when the next flagship arrives, simultaneous updates for the one and new flagship, and support for the 2012 one line is dropped.

    I think that could work, and the reason it doesn't is because the media busts their balls too much on keeping them up to date.

    And yeah I agree, too many versions of android. 4.1 and 4.2 are only like 3 months apart

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Aquila and Ry like this.
    03-18-2013 06:37 PM
  21. Ry's Avatar
    Yep. Exactly why I went that route.

    But what I'm saying in a nutshell if oems feel the need to update, then they outta do it on a yearly cycle instead of the mess it is now. Basically on launch day for the one, all of HTCs 2012 line would get 4.1.2 with sense 5. And then this year htc only provides stability and performance updates to the 2012 and 2013 lines, and come next year when the next flagship arrives, simultaneous updates for the one and new flagship, and support for the 2012 one line is dropped.

    I think that could work, and the reason it doesn't is because the media busts their balls too much on keeping them up to date.

    And yeah I agree, too many versions of android. 4.1 and 4.2 are only like 3 months apart

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Then you'd have people complaining about not being on 4.2.2. lol.
    03-18-2013 06:48 PM
  22. cormaster628's Avatar
    You know honestly I think htc opted to go with 4.1.2 because 4.2.2 is well kinda crappy, it's got more issues than honeycomb and really it almost seems like a nexus exclusive update, as it really more than anything brings the nexus devices in line with oem "skins". Most of the changes only affect it's core apps. It's like a better camera app but sense and touchwiz already have better camera apps, better alarm clock app, but yep you guessed it, better lockscreen, but the sense and touchwiz ones already have nicer lockscreens anyway. I don't really see what it has that an oem can really use. Jellybean 4.1 however is rock solid and a great core os for an oem to base their software off of.

    On that note I'm curious, did Samsung incorporate any actual 4.2.2 features into touchwiz or is it merely a version number and nothing more?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    03-18-2013 06:58 PM
  23. omniusovermind's Avatar
    To you, does customizing Android take away from the spirit of Android?

    To me, it doesn't. In fact, I'm a firm believer that every OEM should customize Android to their liking. It's an open platform that allows for that.
    Ok I get it: Touchwiz, Sense, etc aren't skins anymore, they're "forks" or custom versions of the Android OS, or whatever you want to call them.

    The problem is that no matter whether you think this is cool or not, Google is ahead of their OEM's still. Pure Android still works smoother. Touchwiz and Sense are both laggier than pure Android. If Samsung and HTC could optimize their Android based ROM's so that they ran as smoothly as the pure OS, I wouldn't care.

    The second problem is that Neither Samsung or HTC are giving us features as good as what we get with Google's OS updates. What have Samsung or HTC done for their phones that equals all of the core OS features introduced by Google? Are you going to compare "blinkfeed" to Google Now? Not even close. What does eye scrolling or S voice bring to the table that's as important as Project Butter? No contest.

    As long as this continues than getting features introduced by Google android OS updates >>>>> Touchwiz, Sense, and all the rest. As a tech user and enthusiast that places Nexus devices on a much higher pedestal than even the most spec exaggerated OEM android. Hardware specs are way ahead of the OS and apps across the board now, so what matter more is user experience.
    Aquila, TBolt and CoolBeit like this.
    03-18-2013 09:18 PM
  24. TBolt's Avatar
    Pretty soon, buying a Motorola might be as close to Nexus as purists or casual purists need.

    In a couple years, the name Motorola might have the same connotation as Nexus.

    I know I will wait to see what Google Moto has up its sleeve.


    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    03-18-2013 11:19 PM
  25. Ry's Avatar
    Ok I get it: Touchwiz, Sense, etc aren't skins anymore, they're "forks" or custom versions of the Android OS, or whatever you want to call them.
    IMO, they were never skins to begin with.

    The problem is that no matter whether you think this is cool or not, Google is ahead of their OEM's still.
    Uh. Google and AOSP is the base. Of course it's going to be "ahead".

    Pure Android still works smoother. Touchwiz and Sense are both laggier than pure Android. If Samsung and HTC could optimize their Android based ROM's so that they ran as smoothly as the pure OS, I wouldn't care.
    Sure.

    How noticeable is it now though? Hardware is so good now. To me, it's irrelevant on any of the OEM's flagship devices.

    The second problem is that Neither Samsung or HTC are giving us features as good as what we get with Google's OS updates. What have Samsung or HTC done for their phones that equals all of the core OS features introduced by Google? Are you going to compare "blinkfeed" to Google Now? Not even close. What does eye scrolling or S voice bring to the table that's as important as Project Butter? No contest.
    Expanded lockscreens, expanded notification windows - things that OEM customizations brought to the masses.

    Why would anyone compare Blinkfeed to Google Now? Hardly similar features. Plus you get both on the HTC One.

    Sure. You can knock S Voice. You can knock eye scrolling. But these added features are what make a Samsung phone a Samsung phone. And that's what Samsung wants. And that's why Android is open.



    Any Android phone using Jelly Bean gets Project Butter.


    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    03-18-2013 11:22 PM
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