12-01-2013 07:20 PM
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  1. omniusovermind's Avatar
    IMO, they were never skins to begin with.

    irrelevent unless you feel like nitpicking stuff that makes no difference to the discussion

    Uh. Google and AOSP is the base. Of course it's going to be "ahead".

    ok? You make it look like it angers you to begrudgingly concede a point of any kind lol.



    How noticeable is it now though? Hardware is so good now. To me, it's irrelevant on any of the OEM's flagship devices.

    Not extremely noticeable but when I choose between best user experience and second best, yes it matters to me, if not you.

    Expanded lockscreens, expanded notification windows - things that OEM customizations brought to the masses.

    Why would anyone compare Blinkfeed to Google Now? Hardly similar features. Plus you get both on the HTC One.

    Sure. You can knock S Voice. You can knock eye scrolling. But these added features are what make a Samsung phone a Samsung phone. And that's what Samsung wants. And that's why Android is open.

    You're missing my point completely. Why would you say I can't compare blinkfeed to Google Now? Of course I can. I can compare any feature to any feature. I'm not comparing functionality I'm comparing the value and usefulness of features offered. Why is that hard to understand? And what does it matter if "those added features make Samsung a Samsung"? What is that supposed to even mean anyway? That's like saying "peanut butter is what makes it a peanut butter sandwich"
    You could say that about anything. Irrelevant to the discussion.

    And irrelevant to the original point which you are dancing around and obfuscating: Pure android introduces better features than OEM variants, and introduces them much sooner. You can keep sidetracking away from this point all you want, and I'll bring it right back to the forefront again.


    Any Android phone using Jelly Bean gets Project Butter.

    Yes, months after Nexus did. Many people with older touchwiz or Sense devices on 2 year contracts will never see JB at all.
    03-18-2013 11:37 PM
  2. Ry's Avatar
    Saying skin implies that little changes were done to Android's core. It's very relevant to the discussion - as the changes go deeper than what you think.

    The point is -

    Samsung is going to make Samsung phones. Samsung wants your next phone to be a Samsung phone. It's going to keep building it's own user experience (including added features) to differentiate their phones from its competitor's phones.

    Now replace Samsung with HTC and re-read. Then replace HTC with LG and re-read.

    Someone will find S Voice useful. Someone else may find eye scrolling useful. Samsung wants to give you more value. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Just because you don't see value in them, doesn't mean someone else won't.

    Do you really believe pure Android introduces better features and introduces them much quicker all the time? I'm not sidestepping that at all. Go back to more functional lock screens. Go back to the notification window. Just on those two points alone OEM's have introduced features that were eventually built-in to Android.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    Aquila, jcp007 and jroc like this.
    03-18-2013 11:46 PM
  3. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Saying skin implies that little changes were done to Android's core. It's very relevant to the discussion - as the changes go deeper than what you think.

    The point is -

    Samsung is going to make Samsung phones. Samsung wants your next phone to be a Samsung phone. It's going to keep building it's own user experience (including added features) to differentiate their phones from its competitor's phones.

    Now replace Samsung with HTC and re-read. Then replace HTC with LG and re-read.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    The problem here is that you're replying to my post but arguing something I wasn't even talking about, which was the advantage pure android has over OEM variants like touchwiz and sense. I fail to see how going off on some unrelated tangent to tell me your general description of Samsungs or HTC's has anything to do with what I was talking about.
    03-18-2013 11:53 PM
  4. The Hustleman's Avatar
    There's no way this can be said enough.
    Updates are important but so is having the best device with the best features and hardware and the nexus just isn't it.

    Too many compromises in android, no one makes a totally no compromise device

    sent from the best smart phone (not phablet) on the worst network- the galaxy S III unfortunately on T-Mobile
    03-19-2013 06:23 AM
  5. vinny jr's Avatar
    The SGS4 is the best phone in the world. Innovations and more innovations, the best specs of any, any phone, the best camera, 5 inch screen with 441 ppi, 2600 MHz removable battery all in a smaller footprint. The SGS4 just hit over 27,000 on its benchmark test with unfinished software.
    (very important)
    People are complaining about the polycarbonate ext.
    Polycarbonate is the best material for any electronic device with a radio signal. Metal interferes with radio signals and stops wireless charging.
    My sister's iPhone 5 after one lousy week is a complete mess, it's all scratched and knicked up and she is very careful with her phone, I mean this new iphone looks 5 years old. So much for great metal phones.
    My SGS3 looks as good as the day I purchased it and I don't use a case. My SGS3 looks brand new.
    As i said polycarbonate is the best material for smartphones.
    Many of the people complaining are the iphone users who own these great metal phones and know just how easily they scratch and get all knicked up but they still complain about the Samsung choice in using polycarbonate. I find that the most amusing of all.
    Samsung has built the best smartphone in the world, just wait until you use it, the phone is a freaken beast.
    Thank You Samsung.
    Vinny

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
    lbros360, Johnly and epicness4G like this.
    03-19-2013 07:07 AM
  6. Aquila's Avatar
    Updates are important but so is having the best device with the best features and hardware and the nexus just isn't it.

    Too many compromises in android, no one makes a totally no compromise device

    sent from the best smart phone (not phablet) on the worst network- the galaxy S III unfortunately on T-Mobile
    The Nexus 4 still has a month or so as the best hardware available until the One and S4 are out. After that, it'll only have the best software. I'm inclined to think of the S4 as superior to the One as a total package and it'll probably be at least 2-3 months before something is released that beats the S4.
    Ry likes this.
    03-19-2013 11:31 AM
  7. omniusovermind's Avatar
    The Nexus 4 still has a month or so as the best hardware available until the One and S4 are out. After that, it'll only have the best software. I'm inclined to think of the S4 as superior to the One as a total package and it'll probably be at least 2-3 months before something is released that beats the S4.
    Not a bad prediction at all, and this raises another point. Nexus phones remain the best for close to a year by sheer virtue of always getting the fastest updates and no OEM/Carrier interference/skins/bloatware. Phones made by OEMs on the other hand enjoy a much shorter shelf life as having the best "specs". And to make the case better for Nexus and worse for OEMs, they can't even beat a Nexus experience anymore using specs because hardware has plateaud to the point where it's much larger than what is required to run Android smoothly. The Nexus developer community is far better. I still remember less than 2 years ago when the words "Broken on my SII" happened so often on Play Store app reviews it almost became a freakin' meme.

    Somebody is going to launch a flagship with better specs than the S4 in probably 3 months or so. Nobody is going to launch a flagship that receives updates faster than a Nexus. I'm sure none of this is important if being able to eat chicken wings while reading blinkfeeds or using hover gestures is one of your top criteria for phone selection.
    Aquila likes this.
    03-19-2013 02:54 PM
  8. CoolBeit's Avatar
    Pretty soon, buying a Motorola might be as close to Nexus as purists or casual purists need.

    In a couple years, the name Motorola might have the same connotation as Nexus.

    I know I will wait to see what Google Moto has up its sleeve.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    Unfortunately, it's probably just as likely that google sells off the hardware division of moto mobility altogether.
    03-19-2013 03:15 PM
  9. TabGuy's Avatar
    You know honestly I think htc opted to go with 4.1.2 because 4.2.2 is well kinda crappy, it's got more issues than honeycomb and really it almost seems like a nexus exclusive update, as it really more than anything brings the nexus devices in line with oem "skins". Most of the changes only affect it's core apps. It's like a better camera app but sense and touchwiz already have better camera apps, better alarm clock app, but yep you guessed it, better lockscreen, but the sense and touchwiz ones already have nicer lockscreens anyway. I don't really see what it has that an oem can really use. Jellybean 4.1 however is rock solid and a great core os for an oem to base their software off of.

    On that note I'm curious, did Samsung incorporate any actual 4.2.2 features into touchwiz or is it merely a version number and nothing more?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    You've piqued my interest. I have 4.2.2 on both my Galaxy Nexus and my Galaxy Tab 10.1 and see no bugs. What are these bugs that makes 4.2.2 crappy?
    03-19-2013 04:12 PM
  10. Aquila's Avatar
    You've piqued my interest. I have 4.2.2 on both my Galaxy Nexus and my Galaxy Tab 10.1 and see no bugs. What are these bugs that makes 4.2.2 crappy?
    Also curious; haven't seen them yet... Been on 4.2.2 since the day they released it.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    03-19-2013 04:26 PM
  11. JHBThree's Avatar
    You people are really getting on my nerves... do you have a brain? Or do you just come here to rant senselessly. The phone you get in your hand will not lag... just like how the SGS3 runs smoothly. You are not buying the phone that Phil was holding in his hand!

    And if you listen to the previous podcast you will even hear the Android Central staff admit that the commercial/retail version of the HTC One ran a lot smother than the ones they received as pre-production test units!!!
    The S3 didn't run smoothly. The lag in the app drawer and home screens was pretty bad.
    03-19-2013 05:34 PM
  12. Johnly's Avatar
    The Nexus 4 still has a month or so as the best hardware available until the One and S4 are out. After that, it'll only have the best software. I'm inclined to think of the S4 as superior to the One as a total package and it'll probably be at least 2-3 months before something is released that beats the S4.
    I agree.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    xlDeMoNiClx likes this.
    03-19-2013 06:09 PM
  13. cormaster628's Avatar
    Also curious; haven't seen them yet... Been on 4.2.2 since the day they released it.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    You've piqued my interest. I have 4.2.2 on both my Galaxy Nexus and my Galaxy Tab 10.1 and see no bugs. What are these bugs that makes 4.2.2 crappy?
    Honestly it runs great on my nexus 4... My 7 however feels more like a nook color after the update, it killed ui speed. Project butter completely went to hell, and that's my biggest gripe. 4.2.2 helped but still I gotta reboot this thing once a day to keep it running solid. Also both nexus devices seem to have issues with firing the lockscreen up from time to time. I'll hit the power button and 5 to 10 seconds later the lockscreen fires up.

    There are plenty of other issues and annoyances with 4.2, many don't affect me, but the project butter problem, I noticed that right away.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    03-19-2013 08:35 PM
  14. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    The SGS4 is the best phone in the world. Innovations and more innovations......
    Thank You Samsung.
    Vinny
    How much does Samsung pay you to do this?
    swarlos likes this.
    03-19-2013 11:17 PM
  15. jroc's Avatar
    The problem here is that you're replying to my post but arguing something I wasn't even talking about, which was the advantage pure android has over OEM variants like touchwiz and sense. I fail to see how going off on some unrelated tangent to tell me your general description of Samsungs or HTC's has anything to do with what I was talking about.
    Didnt you post this?



    The second problem is that Neither Samsung or HTC are giving us features as good as what we get with Google's OS updates. What have Samsung or HTC done for their phones that equals all of the core OS features introduced by Google? Are you going to compare "blinkfeed" to Google Now? Not even close. What does eye scrolling or S voice bring to the table that's as important as Project Butter? No contest.

    And irrelevant to the original point which you are dancing around and obfuscating: Pure android introduces better features than OEM variants,
    Didnt he say:


    Expanded lockscreens, expanded notification windows - things that OEM customizations brought to the masses.

    Why would anyone compare Blinkfeed to Google Now? Hardly similar features. Plus you get both on the HTC One.

    Sure. You can knock S Voice. You can knock eye scrolling. But these added features are what make a Samsung phone a Samsung phone. And that's what Samsung wants. And that's why Android is open.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums

    Someone will find S Voice useful. Someone else may find eye scrolling useful. Samsung wants to give you more value. There really isn't anything wrong with that. Just because you don't see value in them, doesn't mean someone else won't.

    Do you really believe pure Android introduces better features and introduces them much quicker all the time? I'm not sidestepping that at all. Go back to more functional lock screens. Go back to the notification window. Just on those two points alone OEM's have introduced features that were eventually built-in to Android.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    ?

    On that note....another example where the OEM UI was better than stock Android for a feature: Stock Android didnt have T9 dialing. Most of the OEM UI's did. I had a G Nex with ICS, no T9 dialing. Have no idea if it ever made it to stock Android. IMO....stock Android was boring until Honeycomb came out. Have you had the pleasure of using stock Android 2.0, 2.1, 2.2? It was plain and boring. Sense UI was amazing in 2010 compared to stock Android.

    And I didnt even like Sense UI back then. All my opinion of course.

    Pure Android smoother than any OEM UI? My RAZR was either neck in neck with my G Nex or one had a slight advantage. Its was so close to tell.....ppl that got a RAZR wouldnt be disappointed. That was in 2011....I see you must have never tried a Sense UI phone with the continuous home screen scrolling that goes like a carousel...smoothness.

    How noticeable is it now though? Hardware is so good now. To me, it's irrelevant on any of the OEM's flagship devices.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Android Central Forums
    Agree. I never used Touchwiz, but my Rezound was also neck in neck with my G Nex. The hardware and the OEM UI's have gotten so better that lag is probably measured in the milliseconds between a stock Android phone vs a phone with a OEM UI.

    Ry's post(s) dont seem unrelated to me.....seems right on point.
    Ry and TheOtherBill like this.
    03-19-2013 11:35 PM
  16. The Real X Dawg's Avatar
    I haven't had any issues with Touchwiz on my Note or Note 2. Touchwiz was wonky at times on my Infuse but I doubt it was ever a powerhouse in the first place.


    Sent from my Jelly Bean chomping Infuse 4G!
    Johnly likes this.
    03-20-2013 12:04 AM
  17. Jude526's Avatar
    Well it does depend on the phone to


    For example now if I sell a galaxy note 2 on a contract, I get 30 for a new act, 20 for an upgrade, but if I sell a GS3, i get 60/50.

    Now EOL devices is when those spiffs come in!

    Incredible 4g? 50 dollar spiff on top of the 60/50 commission.

    Spectrum? 60/50 but there is a 60 dollar spiff plus it's free out the door

    Pantec breakout? I get the regular 65/55 plus a 50$ spiff! Then the phone itself is free. I had a customer that wanted to be a jerk with me a week ago saw the 50 dollar price posted for the phone so I sold it to him for that, earned myself an extra 25.

    Spiffs are nice, but commission is different on each phone


    sent from the best smart phone (not phablet) on the worst network- the galaxy S III unfortunately on T-Mobile
    You're lucky. Things must be changing!

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note2
    03-20-2013 12:48 AM
  18. cormaster628's Avatar
    Typically oem "skinned" versions of android are better. Hate to say it but as a guy whose used both touchwiz and sense, I can say dialing and sync options are much better. Stock Android doesn't have built in Facebook sync, or lockscreen shortcuts, and until 4.2, the camera and alarm clock apps were terrible.

    I'm really not against oem customization, sometimes I think they take it too far, but it is kinda nice because it keeps things from getting stale, especially if you switch manufacturers.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Ry and jroc like this.
    03-20-2013 03:14 AM
  19. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Didnt you post this?






    Didnt he say:





    ?

    On that note....another example where the OEM UI was better than stock Android for a feature: Stock Android didnt have T9 dialing. Most of the OEM UI's did. I had a G Nex with ICS, no T9 dialing. Have no idea if it ever made it to stock Android. IMO....stock Android was boring until Honeycomb came out. Have you had the pleasure of using stock Android 2.0, 2.1, 2.2? It was plain and boring. Sense UI was amazing in 2010 compared to stock Android.

    And I didnt even like Sense UI back then. All my opinion of course.

    Pure Android smoother than any OEM UI? My RAZR was either neck in neck with my G Nex or one had a slight advantage. Its was so close to tell.....ppl that got a RAZR wouldnt be disappointed. That was in 2011....I see you must have never tried a Sense UI phone with the continuous home screen scrolling that goes like a carousel...smoothness.


    Agree. I never used Touchwiz, but my Rezound was also neck in neck with my G Nex. The hardware and the OEM UI's have gotten so better that lag is probably measured in the milliseconds between a stock Android phone vs a phone with a OEM UI.

    Ry's post(s) dont seem unrelated to me.....seems right on point.
    You didn't make your points in a brief enough manner to spend time going through so I'm going to reiterate rather than comb through all of the above for any arguments you may have raised.

    Nexus phones will be enjoying innovations brought by android 5.0 for months before OEM forks see them, and will likely also see future updates beyond that whereas Samsung will be far likelier to halt updates at a point sooner than that in order to get people onto their next phone.

    And further to that, despite your repeated individual claims by otherwise by a mere handful of forum posters with a bias in favor of Samsung, I've seen more than one tech reviewer now comment on spotting lag on S4 demonstrations. So it appears that touchwiz still hasn't got optimization as right as pure yet even with Octa Core.

    What I will concede to you is LTE. But that becomes a very narrow advantage if your carrier supports dual cell hspa like mine does. Other factors you may wish (and I'm certain you will, because Sammy fans solidly believe these all apply to everyone for some reason and it's become a meme for you guys) to mention, such as sd cards, removable battery, camera, are purely personal preference. Of course I already know your disagreement to this has reached the point of being a genetically encoded auto response lol.
    03-20-2013 07:15 AM
  20. GrooveRite's Avatar
    Typically oem "skinned" versions of android are better. Hate to say it but as a guy whose used both touchwiz and sense, I can say dialing and sync options are much better. Stock Android doesn't have built in Facebook sync, or lockscreen shortcuts, and until 4.2, the camera and alarm clock apps were terrible.

    I'm really not against oem customization, sometimes I think they take it too far, but it is kinda nice because it keeps things from getting stale, especially if you switch manufacturers.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    You want to know whats one thing I really love about TW?? The fact that I can swipe on a name on my contacts list left to message or right to call. Why the HELL can't Google build that into stock Android is beyond me!!
    Ry, CoolBeit and Jude526 like this.
    03-20-2013 09:55 AM
  21. xlDeMoNiClx's Avatar
    Honestly it runs great on my nexus 4... My 7 however feels more like a nook color after the update, it killed ui speed. Project butter completely went to hell, and that's my biggest gripe. 4.2.2 helped but still I gotta reboot this thing once a day to keep it running solid. Also both nexus devices seem to have issues with firing the lockscreen up from time to time. I'll hit the power button and 5 to 10 seconds later the lockscreen fires up.

    There are plenty of other issues and annoyances with 4.2, many don't affect me, but the project butter problem, I noticed that right away.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    Really? 4.2.2 works perfectly for me on my Nexus 10.

    This is from me, on my EVO 3D.
    Johnly likes this.
    03-20-2013 10:22 AM
  22. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    Samsung Galaxy S4 termed 'fastest smartphone ever' - The Times of India

    ^^
    But I guess we won't really know until they come out
    xlDeMoNiClx likes this.
    03-20-2013 10:46 AM
  23. xlDeMoNiClx's Avatar
    Samsung Galaxy S4 termed 'fastest smartphone ever' - The Times of India

    ^^
    But I guess we won't really know until they come out
    I'm looking forward to the review. I enjoyed the one about the One.

    This is from me, on my EVO 3D.
    03-20-2013 10:48 AM
  24. Podunks's Avatar
    It's very simple. HTC and Sony's new offerings are gorgeous phones. Both Samsung diehards as well as some fence sitters hoping for more equal range of choices this year were really hoping that Samsung would abandon their current design for something to outplay the others and they didn't, and now there's backlash. In short, they basically "pulled an Apple" without having the iPhone's less fickle fanbase.
    Meh, most people throw the phones in a case anyways... So I am not sure why everyone care about the looks... I have not seen my Focus S in a year... always in the case...

    But oh well, I think the fanboyism is entertaining, and pathetic though. Oh no, the form factor of the phone is similar... "You want the GS4, why, its just stupid gimmicky stuff and the same looks, you are stupid..."
    03-20-2013 11:02 AM
  25. Ry's Avatar
    Nexus phones will be enjoying innovations brought by android 5.0 for months before OEM forks see them, and will likely also see future updates beyond that whereas Samsung will be far likelier to halt updates at a point sooner than that in order to get people onto their next phone.
    And OEM forks will continue to develop features that the source will eventually adopt.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Android Central Forums
    jroc likes this.
    03-20-2013 11:25 AM
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