04-15-2013 04:37 PM
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  1. JHBThree's Avatar
    Can we all agree that the definition of "build quality" varies from person to person?

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
    No. We can agree that material quality does. But build quality doesn't.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
    04-03-2013 01:39 AM
  2. xtn's Avatar
    Again, you could drop the phone exactly the same way again and the speakers might not pop out. It is not indicative of any specific failure or defect, as you are trying to claim. Further, we have evidence from the teardown that all of those front pieces are very securely attached, which contradicts the conclusion you're trying to draw.
    It is indicative if that particular phone having an adhesive failure when subject to whatever force it took, where it took that force, and what direction the force was applied in. It suffered a sheer failure.

    IF the next unit had the glue applied by a machine in exactly the same amount and in exactly the same place, and the parts were then put together with exactly the same pressure and any special curing requirements were met equally, THEN that unit will also fail if the same force is applied to it in the same place, direction and magnitude as the drop test phone encountered.

    The glue in question may have significantly better peel strength than sheer strength, explaining the difficulty ifixit had with dissasembly. Or perhaps different units are rolling off the line without much repeatability re. the glue application, which would also explain the difference.

    And again I will point out that glues do exist that would prevent bond failure due to anything short of continuous application of a large air chisel, so despite your counterpoint these phones could be made better.

    The only conclusion I drew was that the build quality is lower than I expected. My supporting info does more to support that conclusion than yours does to contradict it.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
    TheOtherBill likes this.
    04-03-2013 02:43 AM
  3. xtn's Avatar
    Can I just say that "drop tests" are about the most gimmicky thing "review sites" do? OMG, glass shatters/scratches/breaks when you drop it straight onto a stone surface??? Who woulda thunk! Really, come on. "Build quality" does not mean that the material isn't brittle. Of course metal is more brittle than plastic. But if that meant plastic were more durable and made for better "quality", try putting a plastic container in an oven. Build quality is about efficiency in design, the quality of the material, how comfortable and good it is to hold.
    Okay, I know what your getting at. But please be aware that:

    Some metals are more brittle than some plastics, and some plastics are more brittle than some metals.

    Also some metals have higher melting points than some plastics, and some plastics have higher melting points than some metals.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
    04-03-2013 02:50 AM
  4. Aquila's Avatar
    Can we all agree that the definition of "build quality" varies from person to person?

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Android Central Forums
    0% agreement on that one. I would agree that many people misunderstand the term, however misconception is not the same as redefinition.
    TheOtherBill likes this.
    04-03-2013 03:51 AM
  5. MikeLip's Avatar
    Okay, I know what your getting at. But please be aware that:

    Some metals are more brittle than some plastics, and some plastics are more brittle than some metals.

    Also some metals have higher melting points than some plastics, and some plastics have higher melting points than some metals.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
    Focus on the problem at hand please. It's not "some" metals and "some" plastics. It's aluminum vs polycarbonate. Both are structurally sound materials. Plastics can be tough to bond properly, and metal/plastic bonds can also be tricky. But doing the correct surface prep and using the correct adhesives will take care of that in both cases. Plastics will tend to flex and rebound, or if you get past their limits they will crack and shatter. Aluminum will dent, but it's unlikely to break in a drop in this case. It may deform enough to damage other components though. So they both have limitations.

    The fact that the speaker grill popped out can indicate any number of things happened. Perhaps the inertia of impact overcame the strength of the bond, indicating either a lot of inertia or a poor bond. Or the surface the grill was bonded to was deformed to the point that the bond failed, which says the casing failed in some way. However all we saw was a grill popping off and nothing more. It's impossible to tell from the evidence, and the blogger was more interested in a show than analysis.
    Aquila and The Hustleman like this.
    04-03-2013 06:12 AM
  6. atomic_squid's Avatar
    That. Is. Genius.

    Sent from my LiquidSmooth One XL
    04-03-2013 06:16 AM
  7. The Hustleman's Avatar
    You honest believe that? Samsung's build quality isn't bad by any stretch, but it certainly isn't better than HTC's.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
    If you encounter as many htc phones as I have with build issues (charging port broken loose, screen issues, battery issues phones falling apart) you'd see it differently.

    Keep in mind I've seen a ton more htc phones broken or with build quality issues than Samsung and there are a lot more Samsung phones out there so...

    As far as build materials, yes I'd rather have metal BUT I'm not disappointed by plastic because what is the material that the Otterbox is made of? PLASTIC!
    why not aluminum?

    If aluminum was so durable cases would be made from it and not plastic

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    TheOtherBill, DuStU and satannik like this.
    04-03-2013 06:54 AM
  8. MikeLip's Avatar
    If you encounter as many htc phones as I have with build issues (charging port broken loose, screen issues, battery issues phones falling apart) you'd see it differently.

    Keep in mind I've seen a ton more htc phones broken or with build quality issues than Samsung and there are a lot more Samsung phones out there so...

    As far as build materials, yes I'd rather have metal BUT I'm not disappointed by plastic because what is the material that the Otterbox is made of? PLASTIC!
    why not aluminum?

    If aluminum was so durable cases would be made from it and not plastic

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    If you encase a phone in an aluminum case, it's likely that it will cease being a phone. HTC and Apple get away with it by making the antennas isolated strips of metal on the sides of the phone. Wrap an aluminum case around it and you may simply be putting it in a faraday cage. Ask Asus how well that worked for them with their TF201 tab and GPS reception. Plastic is your friend.
    04-03-2013 07:00 AM
  9. xtn's Avatar
    The fact that the speaker grill popped out can indicate any number of things happened. Perhaps the inertia of impact overcame the strength of the bond, indicating either a lot of inertia or a poor bond. Or the surface the grill was bonded to was deformed to the point that the bond failed, which says the casing failed in some way. However all we saw was a grill popping off and nothing more. It's impossible to tell from the evidence, and the blogger was more interested in a show than analysis.
    All true. But it is possible to calculate the force of impact of an object falling from a given height and with a given acceleration. I expected, right or wrong, that the design engineers would have chosen an adhesive that would prevent a failure from double waist height plus a large safety factor regardless of impact point and angle. That, to me, is the minimum bar at which I would consider the phone to be a "durable" unit. Well, at least it's one factor.

    Yes, the failure could have been a peel failure instead of a sheer failure, but that doesn't seem to be the case, as I would expect the grill to be bent beyond yield. It's not strictly necessary for that to be the result, but if the deformity required to break the bond is less than that required to make the grill yield, then I'm right back to the conclusion of a poorly chosen glue anyway.

    Yes, it takes a specific class of glues to bond polycarbonate to aluminum well, but they do exist as I've already said. As an example, Lotus glued the glass reinforced polycarbonate crash structure to an aluminum bulkhead in my car.Wanna know what the crash structure removal process is should it be damaged? Grind it off. The amount of physical force that would be required to make the bond fail is way more than can be applied without permantly mangling the bulkhead and chassis of the car.

    Of course that example has many flaws as an analogy to a phone because of so many different design and manufacturing criteria variables, but it does make the point. Better glues exist for the application than that which was chosen.

    Now you can claim that's all just my opinion if you want, but even so my conclusion still stands, which again was that the durability or build quality isn't as good as I expected.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
    04-03-2013 07:45 AM
  10. Rizz1-2's Avatar
    If you encounter as many htc phones as I have with build issues (charging port broken loose, screen issues, battery issues phones falling apart) you'd see it differently.

    Keep in mind I've seen a ton more htc phones broken or with build quality issues than Samsung and there are a lot more Samsung phones out there so...

    As far as build materials, yes I'd rather have metal BUT I'm not disappointed by plastic because what is the material that the Otterbox is made of? PLASTIC!
    why not aluminum?

    If aluminum was so durable cases would be made from it and not plastic

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    I would bet cases are made of plastic instead of metal based mostly on cost (metal, machining, finishing). And as MikeLip mentioned, the faraday effect.
    04-03-2013 08:00 AM
  11. Almeuit's Avatar
    Drop tests.. The worst way to judge a phones build quality since so many factors come into play..

    Sent from my Sprint S3 using AC forums.
    xlDeMoNiClx likes this.
    04-03-2013 11:53 AM
  12. jvolstad's Avatar
    I have to wonder about the One metal case and how it affects antenna performance.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    04-03-2013 11:56 AM
  13. MikeLip's Avatar
    I have to wonder about the One metal case and how it affects antenna performance.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    It shouldn't, actually. Unless they really screwed the pooch and tuned it so sharply that touching an antenna makes it choke, like Apple did. You'd think with that example before them they'd make sure that doesn't happen.
    04-03-2013 12:53 PM
  14. BigJoe_Detroit's Avatar
    I'm the htc one could be a nice phone but after 2 years of dealing with this htc thunderbolt.. I don't see me ever trusting htc ever again.. Yes it has been a bad 2 years when I'm talking on the phone it will restart itself playing music or just sitting there so I said screw htc
    04-09-2013 07:27 PM
  15. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    I've never cared about drop tests or how durable a phone is when dropped. I just assume that one drop could destroy the screen = dead phone.

    What I care about is the feel of it in my hands and aesthetics. Metal > plastic by a long, long margin.

    Even still, talking about drops. I've seen so many S3's with cracked plastic backs, chunks of plastic chipped off, etc. Don't suspect that would happen with a metal build.
    04-09-2013 07:37 PM
  16. DuStU's Avatar
    The screen strength on these phones are all similar. In my initial post it was dealing with the metal frame deforming from drops and the metal grill falling off possibly from drops. Whether it is in a case or not the vibration from impact would knock that thing off I am assuming. The only other explanation was the demo model he had isn't built the same as the production model.
    04-10-2013 02:30 AM
  17. SNAFU's Avatar
    In my initial post it was dealing with the metal frame deforming from drops and the metal grill falling off possibly from drops. Whether it is in a case or not the vibration from impact would knock that thing off I am assuming. The only other explanation was the demo model he had isn't built the same as the production model.
    Well, the aluminum the One is made from is likely close to paper thin, not a lot of strength in that (when was the last time you crushed a soda can?)

    Also, Polycarbonate is a tad stronger in most cases than Aluminum is.
    (heck it's used for Bullet Resistant Windows)
    04-10-2013 04:36 AM
  18. Suda's Avatar
    The screen strength on these phones are all similar. In my initial post it was dealing with the metal frame deforming from drops and the metal grill falling off possibly from drops. Whether it is in a case or not the vibration from impact would knock that thing off I am assuming. The only other explanation was the demo model he had isn't built the same as the production model.
    Actually, the S4 uses Gorilla Glass 3 which is 40% more resistant to scratches than GG2 found on the HTC One, Note 2, etc. But yeah, they'll both break the same way if dropped.

    And it wouldn't have mattered if it was pre-production or retail, the only difference between the two is software finishings. They'll both have adhesive holding down the speaker grilles.
    04-10-2013 08:18 AM
  19. Rizz1-2's Avatar
    Well, the aluminum the One is made from is likely close to paper thin, not a lot of strength in that (when was the last time you crushed a soda can?)

    Also, Polycarbonate is a tad stronger in most cases than Aluminum is.
    (heck it's used for Bullet Resistant Windows)
    Wait, what?

    Aluminum Alloy's 3004, 3104, and 3204 (pop can aluminum) are not the only alloys out there. There are dozens of alloys with many properties. Just like there are dozens of types of polycarbonate, not just the type that is used with bullet resistant windows (we'll ignore the fact that those windows are anywhere from 3/4" to 3" thick).

    Those are blanket statements and don't tell the whole story when it comes to the strength of the One or the S4.
    adamtalife likes this.
    04-10-2013 08:36 AM
  20. Podunks's Avatar
    ok OP lets start making cars out of complete plastic.
    Wouldnt a more apt comparison would be the body of the car, as no one is talking about the internals being plastic. And yup, there are lots of cars like that. Heck, I bet you cant find me a super car with a metal body.
    04-10-2013 10:02 AM
  21. snookasnoo's Avatar
    Looks like you haven't actually seen the phones. HTC One build quality blows the Samsung away. Not that it would take much to do that. Samsung uses cheap plastic because its cheap. Amusing when people call it "poly carbonate" as if its not still cheap plastic. Their buttons look and feel cheap too and the screen is lower quality than many other phones.
    Unless a drop test is repeatable, in that every single time the same thing happens, its nothing more than a You Tube Curiosity.

    hear me out here for a second. The HTC one is a nice looking phone but there are reasons why I think samsung upgraded to poly carbonate instead of metal. In my humble opinion I think the plastic body can take more of a beating than metal can by far. The issue here as you will see in this drop test video below is that the One isn't a solid body. The speaker guard is glued on?! Both of them.. It seems like if the phone falls on the edge it pops right off with no way to put it back on. I am just bringing this to the attention of people in the s4 forums on the fence due to build quality. I have the s2 and s3 and have dropped both weekly and nothing like you see in this video has ever happened to me.

    Let me know what you think. Personally I think it is the other way around and samsung will have less returns due to better build quality.



    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Android Central Forums
    04-10-2013 03:32 PM
  22. Almeuit's Avatar
    Looks like you haven't actually seen the phones. HTC One build quality blows the Samsung away. Not that it would take much to do that. Samsung uses cheap plastic because its cheap. Amusing when people call it "poly carbonate" as if its not still cheap plastic. Their buttons look and feel cheap too and the screen is lower quality than many other phones.
    Unless a drop test is repeatable, in that every single time the same thing happens, its nothing more than a You Tube Curiosity.
    And both phones will still function great and we can all do the same things.. Dang.. If only build quality actually contributed to a device that majority of the people slap a case on anyway.

    Either way.. Both phones are nice imo. Is one better? That's opinion based.

    Sent from my Sprint S3 using AC forums.
    04-10-2013 03:45 PM
  23. SpiralBorg's Avatar
    To be honest, I've had an device made out of aluminum, it dented and scratched with little impact.
    On the couch, fell from 10cm it scratched, the table, dented.
    Rather have plastic, in the end.

    Sent from my MZ604 using Android Central Forums
    04-10-2013 04:16 PM
  24. Buckeyes's Avatar
    The S4 is superior in many ways, but build quality is not one of them.
    Mostly every review thus far has mentioned the One's superior build quality and feel.
    04-10-2013 05:05 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    This thread (along with many others about the S4 vs HTC One) suffers from a huge reading comprehension issue. No matter how many people say, "build quality and build materials are not the same thing", the next post is invariably using the terms interchangeably. It doesn't matter if Jerry says it on the podcast, if Phil and Alex call it out in the blog, if 15 members try to explain the difference...
    TheOtherBill likes this.
    04-10-2013 05:37 PM
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