01-19-2014 01:03 AM
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  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I'm just an occasional visitor but holy cow, what an embarrassing thread! I think I blushed from the second hand embarrassment I felt. Think of all the search engine results that threw people this way, it does not put the staff here in a good light. Volunteer or not, the perception is that Mods are representatives of the site. I don't know how big a deal it is to delete posts but it certainly should be considered in this case.
    Here, right from Qualcomm's website. Like I said, perhaps it's all one big conspiracy. You took what an obscure blogger wrote as gospel and then smeared Samsung.

    Samsung GALAXY S4 powered by Snapdragon processors: Presale starts today | Qualcomm

    So to sum it up. No, it doesn't specify WHICH part number, which like I said above, is what I'm most curious about. Also, ANANDTECH is not some "obscure blogger".

    You really don't want to get into "smearing" since all I said was that if they misrepresented what they advertised as something it's not that they were being shady.

    So stop going around and SMEARING the ONE please. Also, just of note, this thread was fine until you derailed it many pages back.
    Topgonzo likes this.
    04-25-2013 02:39 PM
  2. crester's Avatar
    Kevin you are a representative for this Web community. You should act more like it...
    madlaw1071 and Madmanden like this.
    04-25-2013 02:51 PM
  3. madlaw1071's Avatar
    So to sum it up. No, it doesn't specify WHICH part number, which like I said above, is what I'm most curious about. Also, ANANDTECH is not some "obscure blogger".

    You really don't want to get into "smearing" since all I said was that if they misrepresented what they advertised as something it's not that they were being shady.

    So stop going around and SMEARING the ONE please. Also, just of note, this thread was fine until you derailed it many pages back.
    Face it, you have nothing to support your shady claim that Samsung is using anything other than the 600. And yes, to the public outside these forums no one knows who Anandtech is and even most people here didnt know until last week. Even he doesnt allege anything nefarious, you made that allegation yourself.

    I'd say the thread was fine until you took off your moderator hat, put on your HTC hat and made the shady allegation. This is why I suggest you get 2 screen names.
    crester likes this.
    04-25-2013 02:53 PM
  4. Drov's Avatar
    So to sum it up. No, it doesn't specify WHICH part number, which like I said above, is what I'm most curious about. Also, ANANDTECH is not some "obscure blogger".

    You really don't want to get into "smearing" since all I said was that if they misrepresented what they advertised as something it's not that they were being shady.

    So stop going around and SMEARING the ONE please. Also, just of note, this thread was fine until you derailed it many pages back.
    I am no expert or Mod obviously but just reading through this thread, it looks like you were in fact the one who derailed it with the very first comment. I am amazed at the rest of your comments throughout the thread as well. Who are you to criticize people for smearing your beloved One anyway? Reading through your posts the last few days you have been poking at Samsung and the S4 as well. They are just phones, they are both great and you are a Mod, I would expect more.
    madlaw1071, crester and Suntan like this.
    04-25-2013 02:54 PM
  5. madlaw1071's Avatar
    So to sum it up. No, it doesn't specify WHICH part number, which like I said above, is what I'm most curious about. Also, ANANDTECH is not some "obscure blogger".

    You really don't want to get into "smearing" since all I said was that if they misrepresented what they advertised as something it's not that they were being shady.

    So stop going around and SMEARING the ONE please. Also, just of note, this thread was fine until you derailed it many pages back.
    And I don't SMEAR the One. I am a ONE owner and have heaped praise on the phone in this and the One forum. Seems quite fan boyish not to be able to handle criticism of an inanimate object.
    crester and Madmanden like this.
    04-25-2013 02:54 PM
  6. mpdofficer514's Avatar
    I don't understand the premise to the article in regards to thinking its possibly a re-vamped S4 Pro, nothing has indicated this. Quite the opposite actually, Qualcomm has confirmed its an S600, see the link posted above. This is all we need to know, I don't care if the part number is different from the S600 in other devices. If anything, it is a slightly different version of the S600 and has nothing to do with a re-vamped S4 Pro...
    madlaw1071 likes this.
    04-25-2013 03:08 PM
  7. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Face it, you have nothing to support your shady claim that Samsung is using anything other than the 600. And yes, to the public outside these forums no one knows who Anandtech is and even most people here didnt know until last week. Even he doesnt allege anything nefarious, you made that allegation yourself.

    I'd say the thread was fine until you took off your moderator hat, put on your HTC hat and made the shady allegation. This is why I suggest you get 2 screen names.
    If we had to guess, we might be looking at an actual respin of the APQ8064 silicon in APQ8064AB. Assuming Qualcomm isn't playing any funny games here, APQ8064AB may simply be a respin capable of hitting higher frequencies. We'll have to keep a close eye on this going forward, but it's clear to me that the Galaxy S 4 is shipping with something different than everyone else who has a Snapdragon 600 at this point.

    From the OP, which is from Anandtech. The "respin" or "dressed up S4 Pro" talk didn't come from me. Using the word "shady" did, because marketing something as something that it's not is shady. I just want to know more about the "special" part number Samsung is using. TONS of people know who Anandtech is, BTW, and well before this week. They've been around for a VERY long time.

    Multiple screen names why? So I can be accused of being shady and misrepresenting what I said? No thanks.

    I am no expert or Mod obviously but just reading through this thread, it looks like you were in fact the one who derailed it with the very first comment. I am amazed at the rest of your comments throughout the thread as well. Who are you to criticize people for smearing your beloved One anyway? Reading through your posts the last few days you have been poking at Samsung and the S4 as well. They are just phones, they are both great and you are a Mod, I would expect more.
    I poke fun at all kinds of devices, and have even noted some faults of the One (the button layout for sure). It's also not a secret that I think the S4 is "meh" and that Samsung should do more with it's monolithic amount of money in the bank to push the entire Android ecosystem forward. Samsung is much better at making money than most other companies, but they're going to fall into the trap of mediocrity, or doing "just enough" while not pushing themselves. Then, they'll find themselves overshadowed by some other company, the way Apple was eventually overshadowed by Samsung. I don't hate Samsung at all, I just want MORE from them. I also don't hate the S4, just that it's made out of the same cheap feeling plastic as the S3 (not debating durability or anything with that statement, just that shiny thin plastic is cheap feeling to me). Oh, and the menu button. I do hate the menu button. :P

    I just find it funny that because I implied that a multi-billion dollar company might do something shady (not illegal, not even necessarily immoral) that I'm all of a sudden the bad guy.

    And I don't SMEAR the One. I am a ONE owner and have heaped praise on the phone in this and the One forum. Seems quite fan boyish not to be able to handle criticism of an inanimate object.
    I've seen you in the One section bad mouthing it and touting the S4. Don't say you haven't done it.
    dmmarck, karmamule and Topgonzo like this.
    04-25-2013 03:09 PM
  8. madlaw1071's Avatar
    If we had to guess, we might be looking at an actual respin of the APQ8064 silicon in APQ8064AB. Assuming Qualcomm isn't playing any funny games here, APQ8064AB may simply be a respin capable of hitting higher frequencies. We'll have to keep a close eye on this going forward, but it's clear to me that the Galaxy S 4 is shipping with something different than everyone else who has a Snapdragon 600 at this point.

    From the OP, which is from Anandtech. The "respin" or "dressed up S4 Pro" talk didn't come from me. Using the word "shady" did, because marketing something as something that it's not is shady. I just want to know more about the "special" part number Samsung is using. TONS of people know who Anandtech is, BTW, and well before this week. They've been around for a VERY long time.

    Multiple screen names why? So I can be accused of being shady and misrepresenting what I said? No thanks.



    I poke fun at all kinds of devices, and have even noted some faults of the One (the button layout for sure). It's also not a secret that I think the S4 is "meh" and that Samsung should do more with it's monolithic amount of money in the bank to push the entire Android ecosystem forward. Samsung is much better at making money than most other companies, but they're going to fall into the trap of mediocrity, or doing "just enough" while not pushing themselves. Then, they'll find themselves overshadowed by some other company, the way Apple was eventually overshadowed by Samsung. I don't hate Samsung at all, I just want MORE from them. I also don't hate the S4, just that it's made out of the same cheap feeling plastic as the S3 (not debating durability or anything with that statement, just that shiny thin plastic is cheap feeling to me). Oh, and the menu button. I do hate the menu button. :P

    I just find it funny that because I implied that a multi-billion dollar company might do something shady (not illegal, not even necessarily immoral) that I'm all of a sudden the bad guy.



    I've seen you in the One section bad mouthing it and touting the S4. Don't say you haven't done it.
    What you call "bad mouthing" I call legitimate criticism and comparison to a competitive device. Unlike a true troll or fan boy, I am loyal to no brand. I've owned them all and will jump ship as soon as something better or shinier comes along. Also, I am not criticizing the One without being fully invested in it. I own it and have been using it exclusively. I am therefore qualified to comment. If you read my initial impressions post you will see all the praise I gave it. Unfortunately, the few negatives outweigh the many positives based on my specific usage. And yes, sometimes I like to use my peculiar humor and sharp intellect to tweak people who come off as know it alls or know nothings. I am sorry for that, but it doesnt make me a bad person
    04-25-2013 03:17 PM
  9. LoganK's Avatar
    I don't understand the premise to the article in regards to thinking its possibly a re-vamped S4 Pro, nothing has indicated this. Quite the opposite actually, Qualcomm has confirmed its an S600, see the link posted above. This is all we need to know, I don't care if the part number is different from the S600 in other devices. If anything, it is a slightly different version of the S600 and has nothing to do with a re-vamped S4 Pro...
    Well, all of the Snapdragon 600 processors are re-vamped S4 Pro designs (Krait 200 to Krait 300 is not a huge leap). Looking at what did change, it appears the Krait 300 includes data pre-fetch, improved out-of-order execution, and better branch prediction. I'm guessing that if the S4 was really running a Krait 200, we'd see a noticeable decrease in performance in the benchmarks (wild guess, around 10%) compared to a real Krait 300. Of course this is complicated by the differing clock rates and the fact the operating systems are tuned differently...

    And as I mentioned before, all of this speculation is based on some references in the included source. It's curious that Anandtech didn't come out and say the kernel was compiled for a different chip, merely that it included references to another chip.

    This also answers an earlier poster's question. How can the Snapdragon be so much better than a Tegra 3 clocked about the same? The difference almost certainly lies in the fact that Qualcomm has an out-of-order execution engine while almost all ARM processors lack this. If this OOE is 3 stages wide as has been reported, then it isn't unreasonable to see nearly double the performance (which is what we are seeing).
    04-25-2013 03:21 PM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    What you call "bad mouthing" I call legitimate criticism and comparison to a competitive device. Unlike a true troll or fan boy, I am loyal to no brand. I've owned them all and will jump ship as soon as something better or shinier comes along. Also, I am not criticizing the One without being fully invested in it. I own it and have been using it exclusively. I am therefore qualified to comment. If you read my initial impressions post you will see all the praise I gave it. Unfortunately, the few negatives outweigh the many positives based on my specific usage. And yes, sometimes I like to use my peculiar humor and sharp intellect to tweak people who come off as know it alls or know nothings. I am sorry for that, but it doesnt make me a bad person
    Fair enough. But, all comparisons to the S4 are based on reviews, not actual hands-on time. The only "advantage" that I have in that regard is that I speak to some of the people that write the reviews, so I might get a little less "editorialized" comment about things. By "speak to" I mean daily conversations. Just to be clear. I won't have any actual hands-on time until they hit stores.

    Some of those people have experienced slow downs within the UI itself when none are present on another device that has the "same" chip in it, but clocked lower. The S4 with the same exact chip but clocked faster should have zero lags or slowdowns, especially since the One doesn't have any (I haven't experienced any anywhere). So, what other possible cause could there be? Poorly coded software, or not exactly the same hardware. I have no doubt that a lot of coding went into the software, and that they will fix bugs as time goes by. But we don't know for sure. Possible evidence came out that the hardware might not be identical to the One, and the part number is different. To me, that's huge. To most, it doesn't matter. Oh well. Life goes on. What's important to me doesn't have to be important to you.
    Topgonzo likes this.
    04-25-2013 03:30 PM
  11. madlaw1071's Avatar
    Fair enough. But, all comparisons to the S4 are based on reviews, not actual hands-on time. The only "advantage" that I have in that regard is that I speak to some of the people that write the reviews, so I might get a little less "editorialized" comment about things. By "speak to" I mean daily conversations. Just to be clear. I won't have any actual hands-on time until they hit stores.

    Some of those people have experienced slow downs within the UI itself when none are present on another device that has the "same" chip in it, but clocked lower. The S4 with the same exact chip but clocked faster should have zero lags or slowdowns, especially since the One doesn't have any (I haven't experienced any anywhere). So, what other possible cause could there be? Poorly coded software, or not exactly the same hardware. I have no doubt that a lot of coding went into the software, and that they will fix bugs as time goes by. But we don't know for sure. Possible evidence came out that the hardware might not be identical to the One, and the part number is different. To me, that's huge. To most, it doesn't matter. Oh well. Life goes on. What's important to me doesn't have to be important to you.
    I respect the fact that you talk to people "in the know" and are quite knowledgeable. For every review that mentions lag, there probably 5 that say the S4 flies. We shall see over the next few days as the S4 gets in the hands of consumers. If we start seeing lag threads then there is an issue.

    If any lag, I suspect it's the bloatware and/or the plethora of features/gimmicks that might slow it down.

    FWIW, the One hasnt had a single hiccup yet.
    dmmarck likes this.
    04-25-2013 03:34 PM
  12. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I respect the fact that you talk to people "in the know" and are quite knowledgeable. For every review that mentions lag, there probably 5 that say the S4 flies. We shall see over the next few days as the S4 gets in the hands of consumers. If we start seeing lag threads then there is an issue.

    If any lag, I suspect it's the bloatware and/or the plethora of features/gimmicks that might slow it down.

    FWIW, the One hasnt had a single hiccup yet.
    Exactly what was sited as the cause.
    04-25-2013 03:39 PM
  13. madlaw1071's Avatar
    Exactly what was sited as the cause.
    So can we please drop the shady chip argument? LOL
    04-25-2013 03:43 PM
  14. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    So can we please drop the shady chip argument? LOL
    Still wanna know about that part number..... :P
    04-25-2013 03:46 PM
  15. Suntan's Avatar
    I'm boycotting 100% of devices that won't step up to the minimum standards set by the Nexus devices.
    So you're boycotting all LTE phones then? Or just phones with adequate storage?

    -Suntan
    mpdofficer514 likes this.
    04-25-2013 03:54 PM
  16. Averix's Avatar
    Interesting discovery by Anandtech. It may very well just be a special spin of the 600 line for Samsung. In Qualcomm's own PR material though, this line is buried at the bottom.
    "Snapdragon 600 processors include the following part numbers: 8064T"
    That makes me question why the Samsung special chip isn't an 8064TAB or something similar if it really is in the 600 family.
    04-25-2013 03:57 PM
  17. gollum18's Avatar
    Interesting discovery by Anandtech. It may very well just be a special spin of the 600 line for Samsung. In Qualcomm's own PR material though, this line is buried at the bottom.
    "Snapdragon 600 processors include the following part numbers: 8064T"
    That makes me question why the Samsung special chip isn't an 8064TAB or something similar if it really is in the 600 family.
    Hmm didn't I mention that earlier...

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    04-25-2013 04:00 PM
  18. Aquila's Avatar
    So you're boycotting all LTE phones then? Or just phones with adequate storage?

    -Suntan
    Boycotts don't always last forever, but there are many devices that have adopted the standards. Many current and, from the assumptions made in renders, apparently future Motorola devices, Asus, my Nexus has 32GB Storage and unlimited LTE from Verizon. Depending on which parts of the rumor trees you're hanging from, there are two separate possible CDMA/LTE Nexus devices this year and the X Phone rumors. I've said multiple times that I think battery life should be measured in weeks, not hours and that I don't get why we're not seeing 128GB and 256GB internal memory devices.

    Here's the thing. Any person can make a decision to purchase or not to purchase any device for any reason and that should be okay. I personally look at Android differently than many people (clearly) and I want to see evolution of concept, not incremental spec sheet bumps. Of course they had to improve the screens, that should be happening every time and should be a given. Battery life should improve and the great and useful features available on other branches of Android should become ubiquitous among all branches as they evolve.

    To me it's not about making a totally epic high end spec chart topping 2010 style device with a more modern look. It's about making the next device and changes how we use them. I've also been saying for quite awhile that I'm not doing anything until after Google I/O and we understand what Key Lime Pie is about. It could be a minor feature and UI update, in which case the device to showcase it's feature set could be just about anything. It could be a functionality update, in which case designs from the last decade may be limiting the usage. In any case, it's obvious that the refusal of manufacturers to forego the menu button (and physical buttons in general) is detrimental to app design as a whole, creating confusion for developers. This is the cause of the HTC "black bar" and is the only "fragmentation" argument that has any credibility in my eyes since Ice Cream Sandwich was released.
    04-25-2013 04:06 PM
  19. Suntan's Avatar
    ...Samsung should do more with it's monolithic amount of money in the bank to push the entire Android ecosystem forward.... ...Oh, and the menu button. I do hate the menu button.
    Personal opinions aside, when you guys constantly harp against Samsung (and LG and others) about physical menu buttons being staid and lacking in "future-ness" please be aware that you are talking against the desires of a sizable portion of the android buying community. Namely, there are a lot of us that actually *prefer* dedicated and/or capacitive buttons and feel that onscreen buttons on phones is a bad design choice that Google has made.

    So while you are personally rooting for one design feature vs. another please dial it back with the insinuations that continuing those features is "lacking" creativity or willingness to change. Because a lot of us don't want that change.

    As for helping Google to press forward with new standards, I personally would prefer that some of the larger OE manufacturers continue to force Google to keep the options open. And you guys should cheer that in addition to pointing out the downsides of it.

    -Suntan
    Aquila and TheOtherBill like this.
    04-25-2013 04:06 PM
  20. Aquila's Avatar
    Personal opinions aside, when you guys constantly harp against Samsung (and LG and others) about physical menu buttons being staid and lacking in "future-ness" please be aware that you are talking against the desires of a sizable portion of the android buying community. Namely, there are a lot of us that actually *prefer* dedicated and/or capacitive buttons and feel that onscreen buttons on phones is a bad design choice that Google has made.

    So while you are personally rooting for one design feature vs. another please dial it back with the insinuations that continuing those features is "lacking" creativity or willingness to change. Because a lot of us don't want that change.

    As for helping Google to press forward with new standards, I personally would prefer that some of the larger OE manufacturers continue to force Google to keep the options open. And you guys should cheer that in addition to pointing out the downsides of it.

    -Suntan
    Very good point; the differentiation creates choice which is good for consumers. It probably is a balancing act between choice and evolution, but in my vision of the future of these devices, button interaction is extremely limited if used at all (even the on screen sort).
    04-25-2013 04:11 PM
  21. Averix's Avatar
    Hmm didn't I mention that earlier...
    You mentioned the theory of it being a modified 600 by Samsung. You didn't mention anything about part IDs. Not to mention, I don't think Qualcomm would take kindly to handing over chip schematics to Samsung for them to muck around with. If it is a modified chip, it is purely a Qualcomm affair. Whether Samsung asked for a specific line or not is up for debate. It could be Samsung wanted an 800, but they aren't due out for a while, so Qualcomm cooked this up as an in-betweener. All guesswork unless Qualcomm or Samsung comment on this.
    Also, it seems that the S4 pro only has N networking, not the AC standard. So, even if this is a modified S4 Pro, it has some of the innards of a 600 series.
    04-25-2013 04:11 PM
  22. Suntan's Avatar
    To me it's not about making a totally epic high end spec chart topping 2010 style device with a more modern look. It's about making the next device and changes how we use them.
    More power to you in your quest. I guess I just don't see the last couple of Nexus phones offering anything I would consider as "changing how we used them." Personally, the last couple of Nexus devices have been a real let down in my mind and the likes of HTC and Samsung have been providing more real-world improvements to usage patterns.

    Personally, I just see people beating the drum for "nexus or nothing" and they just look like Google-homers no different than HTC fanboys or Samsung fanboys.

    Finally, I don't see any handset being released in the next 2 years that will "change how we use them" or allow us to "see evolution of concept." I think you should be looking down the hall where the nerds are fitting themselves with google glass'es.

    -Suntan
    Aquila likes this.
    04-25-2013 04:17 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Personal opinions aside, when you guys constantly harp against Samsung (and LG and others) about physical menu buttons being staid and lacking in "future-ness" please be aware that you are talking against the desires of a sizable portion of the android buying community. Namely, there are a lot of us that actually *prefer* dedicated and/or capacitive buttons and feel that onscreen buttons on phones is a bad design choice that Google has made.

    So while you are personally rooting for one design feature vs. another please dial it back with the insinuations that continuing those features is "lacking" creativity or willingness to change. Because a lot of us don't want that change.

    As for helping Google to press forward with new standards, I personally would prefer that some of the larger OE manufacturers continue to force Google to keep the options open. And you guys should cheer that in addition to pointing out the downsides of it.

    -Suntan
    Buttons don't have to be on-screen. I can deal with capacitive buttons. Google has also said that capacitive buttons are fine. But the menu button (and HTC's two button arrangement on the ONE) are the wrong direction to go.

    Also, as long as Android remains open-source nobody can/will force any company to do things in a particular way, except of course for the Nexus devices. It just might take longer for cool new features to make their way to mainstream consumer devices. Photosphere, for example, is not a necessary feature, but it's really cool and is still only officially on Nexus devices.
    04-25-2013 04:18 PM
  24. Suntan's Avatar
    but in my vision of the future of these devices, button interaction is extremely limited if used at all (even the on screen sort).
    Sounds like you should be looking to the past. Circa June 2009. The Palm Pre already offered you buttonless navigation. Moreso there than anything that Mateas (SP?) guy has proposed for android.

    Finally, buttons placed on (and taking up space from) the screen are still buttons. I really don't understand people's infatuation for them.

    -Suntan
    04-25-2013 04:21 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Bottom line is that the most important spec is, "this is what I wanted". When it comes to that spec, I'm right about what I want and I'm probably wrong about what you want; vice versa, etc. I think the button thing needs a new thread because I haven't said a word about processors in this one. My bad on that.
    04-25-2013 04:28 PM
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