05-14-2013 11:22 PM
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  1. Ricky Babalu's Avatar
    Man, I have never seen this much hostility between Android users.
    _
    bigdaddytee likes this.
    05-08-2013 11:47 AM
  2. warpdrive's Avatar
    That was our first time trying something like that. It was ... interesting. Next time we'll have cheerleaders in the background or something.
    And as far as I'm concerned a great idea. Even your funny faces are much appreciated by me. But for what seemed like half the review it was all about what was not liked about the phone, instead of showing us what other web sites didn't show us.

    In other words, regardless that Samsung added a ton of features, you barely showed us anything...never mind something that others haven't. I walked away knowing less about the S4 then before. No cheerleaders nessasery, just give me the facts bro.

    I still love you phil. I also think that the HTC One is an awesome phone. If I honestly thought that I could live with the button layout and the "feel in my hand" for 2 years, then I would have gotten the One. It just wasn't for me.

    sent from my S4 using motion gestures!!!!
    05-08-2013 11:56 AM
  3. Phil Nickinson's Avatar
    Man, I have never seen this much hostility between Android users.
    I actually kinda like these discussions. They keep us honest, and make us think about our coverage. Not that we don't do that anyway, but still.

    I'd also invite anyone to come work with us for a week and see how easy it is(n't).
    warpdrive, GrooveRite and lpt2569 like this.
    05-08-2013 11:57 AM
  4. meyerweb#CB's Avatar
    Yes. Your perception is not reality.
    Not sure what perception you're referring to. I didn't state a "perception" or an opinion, I simply asked a question. I gave up on having any reasonable conversations in the One forums, since any attempt to ask a question which might be interpreted as questioning that phone's "perfection" just resulted in a flame fest. Far worse than I've seen in the S4 forum, in fact. So I don't know whether Jerry's even handed in his personal attacks or not. I do think, however, that if any of us more "regular" members posted comments like those made by some of the A|C staff, those posts would be deleted and the user banned in an instant. Disagreeing with someone's opinions is one thing. Insulting and name-calling shouldn't be permitted by anyone, no matter what their role at A|C.
    Ricky Babalu likes this.
    05-08-2013 11:58 AM
  5. madlaw1071's Avatar
    Nah, I just read through the first page of each section (the One, and the S4), without trying to do any type of clean-up, just to get a feel for them (again). Definitely more bickering, arguing, and trolling in the S4 section. I'm not going to speculate why.

    Jerry was expressing his opinion after spending a TON of time with the S4. He gave his exact thoughts and ideas as to why people were seeing some of the issues they were seeing. Why did he get attacked for saying he preferred one phone over the other? Was that fair? Is it fair when regular members get attacked or flamed for expressing their preference for one device over the other?

    To prove my point, how many posts have you seen start out with "I know I might get some backlash" or "don't flame me" or something along those lines when the member KNOWS they are saying something people might not like. What does that say about us as a community that people are starting off posts like that? Not as individuals, but as a community. AC is known for being friendly and inviting for n00bs and pros alike, but lately what we've (the Mod team) been noticing is that this isn't the case. People in general have been far more confrontational, defensive, unhelpful, and just generally not very "nice".



    Yes. Your perception is not reality.



    Listen to the podcasts, read the written reviews. Watch the "How-to....." that have been done for the S4. Plenty of information out there. I'm sorry that you don't like Phil's explanation that he gave above. Some people DO understand what he said, and I thank those people.



    As for getting a review "in a vacuum" why? Do you purchase phones in a vacuum? Are you not going to compare devices in the store before you buy them? Alex's review for the S4 had different sections for different parts of the phone, and was very well done in my opinion. I read both reviews, and came away well informed about each device. I think it's unrealistic to think that a reviewer's opinion isn't going to show through at all in a review.

    Now, my real question is, because I said some things people might not like in this post, am I going to get flamed and labeled again? We'll see.
    OMG, dude seriously, if you think there is more trolling etc on the S4 forums it's because we have you and Jerry actively lobbying for the One and other HTC fans starting flaming wars. Take away your "shady" thread and your deep abiding concern posts about S4 lag(which was corrected within 2 weeks of launch) and Jerry's post yesterday and it's really not bad around here.

    Most peeps have stayed away from the One forums because the fan boys/girls over there get their panties in a twist at the slightest criticism of the One, even from owners like me AND because the mods over there are not even handed.

    Reality check por favor.
    05-08-2013 12:00 PM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Not sure what perception you're referring to. I didn't state a "perception" or an opinion, I simply asked a question. I gave up on having any reasonable conversations in the One forums, since any attempt to ask a question which might be interpreted as questioning that phone's "perfection" just resulted in a flame fest. Far worse than I've seen in the S4 forum, in fact. So I don't know whether he's even handed in his personal attacks or not. I do think, however, that if any of us more "regular" members posted comments like those made by some of the A|C staff, those posts would be deleted and the user banned in an instant.
    I just went and read the first page of posts. That section has calmed down quite a bit. You can probably have a real conversation in there now, for the most part.

    As for bans, we don't hand those out like candy.
    05-08-2013 12:01 PM
  7. madlaw1071's Avatar
    I actually kinda like these discussions. They keep us honest, and make us think about our coverage. Not that we don't do that anyway, but still.

    I'd also invite anyone to come work with us for a week and see how easy it is(n't).
    Put me down for the free phones and discount on accessories and I'll work for you for free.
    05-08-2013 12:02 PM
  8. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    I actually kinda like these discussions. They keep us honest, and make us think about our coverage. Not that we don't do that anyway, but still.

    I'd also invite anyone to come work with us for a week and see how easy it is(n't).
    I guarantee after a day i'd be calling the S4 a 4s and the HTC One i'd probably call the Lumia and the Lumia would be a Z10 and the Optimus G would be an Optimus Prime. I can't imagine keeping 5, 6, 7 devices straight if they are all on my desk at the same time. Also, i'd probably give myself a ton of free stuff if I worked there...........shifty eyes...........

    In all seriousness though, this site saves my life on a daily basis as it helps the time pass during down times at work and even occassionally at home. You do good work! (Almost Heroes Quote)
    05-08-2013 12:02 PM
  9. madlaw1071's Avatar
    I just went and read the first page of posts. That section has calmed down quite a bit. You can probably have a real conversation in there now, for the most part.

    As for bans, we don't hand those out like candy.
    This is my fav One thread from the FIRST PAGE.

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/htc...way-today.html

    Edit: also from the first page, another dandy.

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/htc...t-website.html
    05-08-2013 12:04 PM
  10. Eric Kane's Avatar
    Nah, I just read through the first page of each section (the One, and the S4), without trying to do any type of clean-up, just to get a feel for them (again). Definitely more bickering, arguing, and trolling in the S4 section. I'm not going to speculate why.

    Jerry was expressing his opinion after spending a TON of time with the S4. He gave his exact thoughts and ideas as to why people were seeing some of the issues they were seeing. Why did he get attacked for saying he preferred one phone over the other? Was that fair? Is it fair when regular members get attacked or flamed for expressing their preference for one device over the other?

    To prove my point, how many posts have you seen start out with "I know I might get some backlash" or "don't flame me" or something along those lines when the member KNOWS they are saying something people might not like. What does that say about us as a community that people are starting off posts like that? Not as individuals, but as a community. AC is known for being friendly and inviting for n00bs and pros alike, but lately what we've (the Mod team) been noticing is that this isn't the case. People in general have been far more confrontational, defensive, unhelpful, and just generally not very "nice".



    Yes. Your perception is not reality.



    Listen to the podcasts, read the written reviews. Watch the "How-to....." that have been done for the S4. Plenty of information out there. I'm sorry that you don't like Phil's explanation that he gave above. Some people DO understand what he said, and I thank those people.



    As for getting a review "in a vacuum" why? Do you purchase phones in a vacuum? Are you not going to compare devices in the store before you buy them? Alex's review for the S4 had different sections for different parts of the phone, and was very well done in my opinion. I read both reviews, and came away well informed about each device. I think it's unrealistic to think that a reviewer's opinion isn't going to show through at all in a review.

    Now, my real question is, because I said some things people might not like in this post, am I going to get flamed and labeled again? We'll see.
    Does it matter to you why someone would want to have a review devoid of any comparisons? I don't think he didn't like Alex's review, but wanted a different perspective. In fact, a lot of the "meh" feeling about the S4 that was described is due in large part because it's being thought of as an "S3S" due to higher than normal expectations. So perhaps reviewing it based on what it can do and can't do versus how much better/worse it is than a particular device, past or present, would be a refreshing take for some people.

    Let me make myself clear before I type this: I don't care at all about what I'm about to type. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, I find it amusing most of the time. That said, I can see why others have complained. You have most certainly started more fires than you've helped put out here. You've been contentious in almost every thread I've seen you in. You've argued for the One and against the S4, which is your right, but done so without having any real firsthand knowledge about the S4. Your insisting of the "lag" issue, which Jerry referenced the other day as overblown like I did this whole time, was amusing because in the midst of it, if anyone mentioned the One, you'd defend it. At one point I did it on purpose because it was cat/string material and entertainment is always appreciated.

    Again, I could care less. You can keep on doing these things and I'll be right here, not complaining, but enjoying. That apparently isn't a shared sentiment. If it becomes an issue for you, or it already has, maybe moderating different forums would be a better choice? I'd gladly moderate the S4 forums and keep things in line. I probably answer as many questions in threads/PMs anyways as staff would. All I'm saying is that if you're surprised at some of the vitriol being thrown your way, this is why.
    05-08-2013 12:09 PM
  11. Phil Nickinson's Avatar
    Put me down for the free phones and discount on accessories and I'll work for you for free.
    Lol. Always a catch, right? BTW, I start about 6:15 a.m. and wrap up around 11 p.m. That cool?
    05-08-2013 12:15 PM
  12. madlaw1071's Avatar
    Lol. Always a catch, right? BTW, I start about 6:15 a.m. and wrap up around 11 p.m. That cool?
    Totally, sounds like my normal day. I am a MADLAWyer after all
    05-08-2013 12:16 PM
  13. Eric Kane's Avatar
    Lol. Always a catch, right? BTW, I start about 6:15 a.m. and wrap up around 11 p.m. That cool?
    If it replaced my current income? In a heartbeat.
    05-08-2013 12:18 PM
  14. Ricky Babalu's Avatar
    Does it matter to you why someone would want to have a review devoid of any comparisons? I don't think he didn't like Alex's review, but wanted a different perspective. In fact, a lot of the "meh" feeling about the S4 that was described is due in large part because it's being thought of as an "S3S" due to higher than normal expectations. So perhaps reviewing it based on what it can do and can't do versus how much better/worse it is than a particular device, past or present, would be a refreshing take for some people.

    Let me make myself clear before I type this: I don't care at all about what I'm about to type. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, I find it amusing most of the time. That said, I can see why others have complained. You have most certainly started more fires than you've helped put out here. You've been contentious in almost every thread I've seen you in. You've argued for the One and against the S4, which is your right, but done so without having any real firsthand knowledge about the S4. Your insisting of the "lag" issue, which Jerry referenced the other day as overblown like I did this whole time, was amusing because in the midst of it, if anyone mentioned the One, you'd defend it. At one point I did it on purpose because it was cat/string material and entertainment is always appreciated.

    Again, I could care less. You can keep on doing these things and I'll be right here, not complaining, but enjoying. That apparently isn't a shared sentiment. If it becomes an issue for you, or it already has, maybe moderating different forums would be a better choice? I'd gladly moderate the S4 forums and keep things in line. I probably answer as many questions in threads/PMs anyways as staff would. All I'm saying is that if you're surprised at some of the vitriol being thrown your way, this is why.
    Well said.
    05-08-2013 12:19 PM
  15. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    OMG, dude seriously, if you think there is more trolling etc on the S4 forums it's because we have you and Jerry actively lobbying for the One and other HTC fans starting flaming wars. Take away your "shady" thread and your deep abiding concern posts about S4 lag(which was corrected within 2 weeks of launch) and Jerry's post yesterday and it's really not bad around here.

    Most peeps have stayed away from the One forums because the fan boys/girls over there get their panties in a twist at the slightest criticism of the One, even from owners like me AND because the mods over there are not even handed.

    Reality check por favor.
    Did you see the changelog Phil posted? No performance improvements. At all. He didn't make that up.

    So basically what you're saying (and you definitely proved my point with your reply) is that two threads (the "shady" thread and the one where me and Eric went back and forth) was the brunt of the negativity around here? If we include Jerry's perfectly fine thread that was derailed then that's three threads. Out of how many? Heck, I'll give you ten more threads, just because. So that's 13. Again, out of how many? I mean if you want, I'll go through both sections and close all threads that have been derailed and taken far off-topic. But I doubt we'd have very many left to continue discussions in.

    Jerry's post, again, was perfectly fine. He didn't say anything wrong. Nothing. Not one thing. I read it BEFORE he posted it and said "people might take issue with you preferring the One at the end" but then, honestly, thought that him being honest about performance (didn't he say it wasn't as bad as people were making it out to be, and that Samsung would fix it?) and (basically) supporting the S4 being a great device (at least that's how I took it) would've made people think twice about flaming him. I thought that, maybe, most of us being adults, would allow for some honest discussion with someone that knows a whole lot about what goes on behind the scenes with these types of things and would maybe shed some light on what's going on.

    Oh yeah, please read my posts in this section from the last week. Tell me that I'm "fueling the fire" after that. I'm not attacking anyone, I'm not saying the S4 is terrible, I'm not saying people made a bad decision getting the S4. Actually, I NEVER said any of those things. People are taking issue with my opinion, which is perfectly fine, but it's not worth attacking someone over and questioning their credibility or their ability to perform their (VOLUNTEER) duties for AC.

    Infractions have been handed out in the One section by myself AND Jerry. I'm not sure I've given as many in the S4 section, honestly. Is that indicative of anything? Probably, but not what you guys think it is. I think I'm being MORE lenient on the types of discussions happening in the S4 section than the One section.


    To answer my own question from my previous post. YES
    05-08-2013 12:19 PM
  16. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    This is my fav One thread from the FIRST PAGE.

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/htc...way-today.html

    Edit: also from the first page, another dandy.

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/htc...t-website.html
    So, you trolled in your first reply to the first thread you linked, honestly. But I digress. I didn't say they didn't exist in that section. I said it's calmed down a lot. So you went and cherry picked a few examples of it not being calm. Cool.


    Man, people are always taking what I say with a completely negative connotation.

    @eric kane My issue (not really an issue, more of a "concern" or just straight up opinion) is that in a vacuum every phone will be great. It won't matter if they have issues, or are terrible, or are just plain the greatest thing ever made. Taken in a vacuum you have no choice, no options, nothing to be the "baseline". If you're going to take the direction of listing features and saying "this one works great, this one so-so, this one is terrible, etc." then ok. But keep in mind that for as many people say one feature is terrible and doesn't work, you have a guy saying that they love that feature and it works flawlessly. To each there own I guess.
    Topgonzo likes this.
    05-08-2013 12:31 PM
  17. Ricky Babalu's Avatar
    I actually kinda like these discussions. They keep us honest, and make us think about our coverage. Not that we don't do that anyway, but still.

    I'd also invite anyone to come work with us for a week and see how easy it is(n't).
    No thanks! I rather enjoy my 2-3 hour work day which allows me plenty of beach time relaxation.
    05-08-2013 12:33 PM
  18. JHBThree's Avatar
    No Phil, just no. I won't hate all the phones. In fact I love all the phones.

    I also dont think that the love for the HTC One had anything to do with it coming out first. It has to do with attitudes here from you and the staff.

    If you hate touchwiz so be it. If you hate plastic, so be it. But if you want to spend 20 mins mocking the above and not teaching me about the S4, or helping me decide what pros and cons each phone has then I'll take my time going elsewhere for my info.

    Phil, I love this site. I love you, Jerry, and Alax. But this year you lost my respect due to the antics displayed in your videos, reviews, and comments here in this forum.

    I never had to dig so hard in finding out the truth about the HTC One and the Samsung S4 as in the past year or two.
    Want my respect back, stop being so dead set about this being about who came out first. Start reviewing the S4 as if we want to learn something and not hear your rants about plastic or the OS...it's working for Samsung well, why should they change just for you?

    sent from my S4 using motion gestures!!!!
    Seriously, just leave. Delete your account and go.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    TheLibertarian likes this.
    05-08-2013 12:33 PM
  19. madlaw1071's Avatar
    Did you see the changelog Phil posted? No performance improvements. At all. He didn't make that up.

    So basically what you're saying (and you definitely proved my point with your reply) is that two threads (the "shady" thread and the one where me and Eric went back and forth) was the brunt of the negativity around here? If we include Jerry's perfectly fine thread that was derailed then that's three threads. Out of how many? Heck, I'll give you ten more threads, just because. So that's 13. Again, out of how many? I mean if you want, I'll go through both sections and close all threads that have been derailed and taken far off-topic. But I doubt we'd have very many left to continue discussions in.

    Jerry's post, again, was perfectly fine. He didn't say anything wrong. Nothing. Not one thing. I read it BEFORE he posted it and said "people might take issue with you preferring the One at the end" but then, honestly, thought that him being honest about performance (didn't he say it wasn't as bad as people were making it out to be, and that Samsung would fix it?) and (basically) supporting the S4 being a great device (at least that's how I took it) would've made people think twice about flaming him. I thought that, maybe, most of us being adults, would allow for some honest discussion with someone that knows a whole lot about what goes on behind the scenes with these types of things and would maybe shed some light on what's going on.

    Oh yeah, please read my posts in this section from the last week. Tell me that I'm "fueling the fire" after that. I'm not attacking anyone, I'm not saying the S4 is terrible, I'm not saying people made a bad decision getting the S4. Actually, I NEVER said any of those things. People are taking issue with my opinion, which is perfectly fine, but it's not worth attacking someone over and questioning their credibility or their ability to perform their (VOLUNTEER) duties for AC.

    Infractions have been handed out in the One section by myself AND Jerry. I'm not sure I've given as many in the S4 section, honestly. Is that indicative of anything? Probably, but not what you guys think it is. I think I'm being MORE lenient on the types of discussions happening in the S4 section than the One section.


    To answer my own question from my previous post. YES
    The fact that you even argue with us, rather than just moderating, highlights the problem. Why not just let issues come and go and step in when personal attacks are made?

    Everyone agrees Jerry's post was awesome, so good it should be a sticky. HOWEVER, both of you(since you read before it was posted) HAD TO KNOW it would create sharp reaction. Now to sit back aghast that peeps are taking exception to it is SILLY. IMHO.
    tohio likes this.
    05-08-2013 12:34 PM
  20. madlaw1071's Avatar
    If AC guys were unbiased we would see some praise for Samsung's quick update and call out HTC for not quickly updating(again) for the whole host of issues people are having with the One. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to see any AC commentary in the One threads about the various issues associated with the One yet here y'all are every day harping on S4 lag etc.
    05-08-2013 12:37 PM
  21. JHBThree's Avatar
    The fact that you even argue with us, rather than just moderating, highlights the problem. Why not just let issues come and go and step in when personal attacks are made?

    Everyone agrees Jerry's post was awesome, so good it should be a sticky. HOWEVER, both of you(since you read before it was posted) HAD TO KNOW it would create sharp reaction. Now to sit back aghast that peeps are taking exception to it is SILLY. IMHO.
    Why do you just complain these days?

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    TheLibertarian likes this.
    05-08-2013 12:43 PM
  22. lpt2569's Avatar
    I love this thread...honestly, it's great stuff from all viewpoints. Love it.
    Attached Thumbnails Addressing The One/S4 "Bias" At Android Central-tumblr_m8hwwidcss1r3f9ymo2_250.jpg  
    bigdaddytee likes this.
    05-08-2013 12:46 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    The fact that you even argue with us, rather than just moderating, highlights the problem. Why not just let issues come and go and step in when personal attacks are made?

    Everyone agrees Jerry's post was awesome, so good it should be a sticky. HOWEVER, both of you(since you read before it was posted) HAD TO KNOW it would create sharp reaction. Now to sit back aghast that peeps are taking exception to it is SILLY. IMHO.
    So let's stop posting if we think people will "take exception" or if there will be "sharp reactions"? Nope. How about take it up with the members that decided to derail the thread. Point the finger in the right direction in this case.

    If AC guys were unbiased we would see some praise for Samsung's quick update and call out HTC for not quickly updating(again) for the whole host of issues people are having with the One. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to see any AC commentary in the One threads about the various issues associated with the One yet here y'all are every day harping on S4 lag etc.
    Articles weren't written about the updates? For the S4 and One. They were. I saw them. US carriers haven't (to my knowledge) sent out updates to their One's because they shipped with the newer firmware.

    As you've pointed out many times, there's a lengthy bug thread in the One section. Don't conveniently forget about that when it suits your needs. I post in there on occasion when I can help.
    05-08-2013 12:46 PM
  24. BigDinCA's Avatar
    Wow.

    Five pages of a thread of non-stop complaining about a site we all know and love, and forums that we've all spent (if you ask my wife) too much time on. I expect a little opinion and bias on the front page. I expect a lot more in the forums. This isn't the AP. If you want unbiased that's a better bet. I come here for the bias. The bias towards Android is always here, and rightly so. The bias for one device over another changes. It's practically a living thing. I wouldn't come to this site if the folks running it just put out spec sheets and benchmark results. I want to know what they THINK! I already know what they know. Lots of us do. Sometimes I know more. And times when I know less: Google. I don't care if they are biased towards my own bias or not. I want their opinion. As long as they aren't beating us over the head with it there is no problem at all. It seems that the purpose and definition of discussion forums and tech blogs has been lost in this conversation.
    05-08-2013 12:48 PM
  25. tohio's Avatar
    The fact that you even argue with us, rather than just moderating, highlights the problem. Why not just let issues come and go and step in when personal attacks are made?

    Everyone agrees Jerry's post was awesome, so good it should be a sticky. HOWEVER, both of you(since you read before it was posted) HAD TO KNOW it would create sharp reaction. Now to sit back aghast that peeps are taking exception to it is SILLY. IMHO.
    I belong to several forums from motorcycles to sports cars to archaeology. I have never seen the moderators in any of the forums I belong to argue with the members to any degree what so ever.
    A moderator is defined as:
    1. One that moderates, as:
    a. One that arbitrates or mediates.
    b. One who presides over a meeting, forum, or debate.

    Certainly a moderator, as defined by custom and common sense, does not take sides in a forum or debate. And a moderator loses his or her credibility to arbitrate or mediate when they actively participate in discussions and criticize comments by those who are the subject of their arbitration or moderation.
    madlaw1071 and TheOtherBill like this.
    05-08-2013 12:50 PM
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