05-14-2013 11:22 PM
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  1. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Did you read the thread? It has nothing to do with which phone is better. It has everything to do with a perceived bias on the part of the editors (and moderator) of this site for one phone over the other.
    I'm not talking about this thread..... I'm talking about the fact that there's a reason for a thread like this to exist due to the constant bickering over which device is better which results to the perception of bias and flame wars. And all that is derived from people being too sensitive and too clingy to a device they will swap out when something else comes along. So I think what I posted in appropriate for the point I'm making. Thanks though.
    05-08-2013 03:00 PM
  2. jarettp's Avatar
    That's it... I am getting a Lumia 920 on ATT....not really buy it does look pretty cool!

    Sent from my Nexus 4
    i just came from the 920. my battery wouldn't last past the work day. I couldn't have a phone that was dead every time i came home.
    05-08-2013 03:00 PM
  3. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I'll start from the bottom. I'd prefer you to own the phone, but having a review unit would be fine, too. Why? Because it means you'd have continuous use of the phone outside of a demo unit at a retail location that you played with for 15 minutes. You have neither. That's one.

    Two, I didn't think I had to explain that sometimes these things aren't put into the change log as it means they'd have to address it. Maybe it is incomplete. Maybe it wasn't an actual issue with performance that required a specific fix? I'm not Samsung. Hard to argue with the results as it pertains to the actual usage of the phone. You'd know that if you had one in your hand. You do not.

    No, I was not the guy you argued with about Samsung and plastic. Something tells me you're aware of everytime we've talked, though.

    Finally, I could tell you all day long you shouldn't comment -as if- you owned/reviewed the device, but you'd do it anyways. As for listening to other people's opinions, you seem to pick and choose which ones you want to listen to. For instance, Jerry has commented on 2 separate occasions that this "lag" is minimal, worse on the Sprint version (which he has), and is overblown. Yet you persist.

    Was that good enough for your curiousity?
    I persist about what? I'm pretty sure that I've never said that the S4 had terrible performance and lags all over. What I HAVE said, though, is that some people are reporting it being far worse than others are. Yes, that's a perception issue. For some people, those little stutters are huge issues, for others, they don't even notice. I've said that particular statement far more than once. It's getting a little tiring, honestly. What I've also said is that you've gone in some of those threads and glossed over the fact people that are saying the lag is the most terrible thing they've ever experienced. Is that an overblown statement? Probably, but guess what? That's their perception of the problem. It's not the same as yours. That's not a crime.

    I'm aware of changelogs and the fact that they can be great, or not. Personally (yep, there I go again with personal thoughts and opinions. Shame on me.) I want them to be thorough. I want to know what was fixed. The more they list that was fixed, the more I know they care about my experience. Is everyone the same? Nope. But somehow you persist that I have to agree with YOU, because you own the phone. I do not. That's not a rule. It's something you came up with on your own.

    I think people are reading my posts, and taking them as me being angry or upset. I'm not.
    Topgonzo likes this.
    05-08-2013 03:02 PM
  4. madlaw1071's Avatar
    I persist about what? I'm pretty sure that I've never said that the S4 had terrible performance and lags all over. What I HAVE said, though, is that some people are reporting it being far worse than others are. Yes, that's a perception issue. For some people, those little stutters are huge issues, for others, they don't even notice. I've said that particular statement far more than once. It's getting a little tiring, honestly. What I've also said is that you've gone in some of those threads and glossed over the fact people that are saying the lag is the most terrible thing they've ever experienced. Is that an overblown statement? Probably, but guess what? That's their perception of the problem. It's not the same as yours. That's not a crime.

    I'm aware of changelogs and the fact that they can be great, or not. Personally (yep, there I go again with personal thoughts and opinions. Shame on me.) I want them to be thorough. I want to know what was fixed. The more they list that was fixed, the more I know they care about my experience. Is everyone the same? Nope. But somehow you persist that I have to agree with YOU, because you own the phone. I do not. That's not a rule. It's something you came up with on your own.

    I think people are reading my posts, and taking them as me being angry or upset. I'm not.
    Agreed Kevin. Definitely not angry or upset; gleeful or sneering perhaps but not angry or upset.
    05-08-2013 03:04 PM
  5. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Does anyone else feel like all 16 pages of this thread say the same thing over and over again just in different words? Man, I know it can be tiring rehashing the same things over and over again.

    The glorious fact is that everyone is entitled to an opinion. And as I've stated in many threads, opinions cannot be wrong. The factual supporting evidence or lack thereof can be wrong, but not the opinion in its own. Why can't everyone just have subjective opinions? Some people just get way too emotionally attached to these products or manufactures. I mean, I get it, I'm a die hard prius lover. But I'm not going to harp on every person who hates on my "energizer clown car." I jus explain why I chose it, and smile when they use the typical responses of why they wouldn't. But going as far to get emotionally upheaved over someone else not liking it? Come on now, there are plenty of choices in the smart phone market for every single person to find a device that suits their needs. Its like religion, no need to shove yours down my throat. If you are happy about your purchase, that's what matters. People need to stop getting so **** hurt about other people's opinions.

    Sent from my Verizon Droid DNA
    05-08-2013 03:22 PM
  6. Phil Nickinson's Avatar
    I also like my coffee with cream and sugar.
    Topgonzo and The Real X Dawg like this.
    05-08-2013 03:24 PM
  7. Eric Kane's Avatar
    I persist about what? I'm pretty sure that I've never said that the S4 had terrible performance and lags all over. What I HAVE said, though, is that some people are reporting it being far worse than others are. Yes, that's a perception issue. For some people, those little stutters are huge issues, for others, they don't even notice. I've said that particular statement far more than once. It's getting a little tiring, honestly. What I've also said is that you've gone in some of those threads and glossed over the fact people that are saying the lag is the most terrible thing they've ever experienced. Is that an overblown statement? Probably, but guess what? That's their perception of the problem. It's not the same as yours. That's not a crime.

    I'm aware of changelogs and the fact that they can be great, or not. Personally (yep, there I go again with personal thoughts and opinions. Shame on me.) I want them to be thorough. I want to know what was fixed. The more they list that was fixed, the more I know they care about my experience. Is everyone the same? Nope. But somehow you persist that I have to agree with YOU, because you own the phone. I do not. That's not a rule. It's something you came up with on your own.

    I think people are reading my posts, and taking them as me being angry or upset. I'm not.
    I'm not saying you need to agree with me at all. Take me out of this. You were concerned with the reports you were hearing about "lag" and regardless of people stating the contrary, you kept on with it. You listen to the people, apparently. Now they release an update and the people are reporting the exact opposite. Someone says they fixed the supposed "lag" issue and you're the only one I've seen so far that's even mentioned the change log and that if it's not there, maybe it isn't fixed.

    All because you want them to be thorough. So your need for them to care about your experience with a device you don't own/review prompted you to point out that a performance fix wasn't listed on the change log when a user states they fixed it. When an uncounted amount says they fixed it. Here I thought you listened to the reports from other people?

    What you're doing is back tracking. I never said you had to agree with me. I said you seem to talk a lot about this phone and it's issues based off of what you've heard, but ignore the positive and punctuate the negative. I'm all for it, too. It's hilarious because it's like clockwork. I'm not even telling you to stop doing it, but you probably have this wide-eyed look at the screen from surprise and shock when someone calls you out on it. You shouldn't.
    05-08-2013 03:26 PM
  8. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar

    Edit: If I wasn't afraid of Phil and James, I'd make everyone view this post before they could continue on to the forums :P
    05-08-2013 03:27 PM
  9. Jennifer Stough's Avatar
    Also, just because he's a moderator doesn't mean he has to be subjective. He's allowed to have his opinions on these devices as we all are. If he is more partial to one than the other, that is his choice. And he is allowed to express that. If he was slandering the phone falsely, that would be one thing. But he's not fanthoming up issues with this device just for the sake of upsaling the ONE. He's merely reposting information that has been presented by many, many, s4 users on this site. If you don't trust that source than surely you don't trust the consensus, either. His job is to try and keep an even level of integrity in these forums. While at times he may be needed to act as a mediator, he is not asked to sheild his opinion, rather, find a common ground to express it respectfully. Which not once have I seen a post by him that was presented in any way but with the utmost respect, whether he agrees or disagrees with the subject matter.

    Sent from my Verizon Droid DNA
    05-08-2013 03:29 PM
  10. lpt2569's Avatar
    I also like my coffee with cream and sugar.
    You must be biased against tea drinkers. And we all know (us tea-drinkers) that tea is sooooo much better than coffee. And that is a fact. I can prove it to you with my opinions.

    I actually love coffee.

    What were we talking about?
    05-08-2013 03:32 PM
  11. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    I also like my coffee with cream and sugar.
    Try mixing Mtn Dew with Apple Beer. Now THAT is delicious.
    05-08-2013 03:36 PM
  12. Paul627g's Avatar
    What surprised me most was that Jerry killed it.
    I think what Jerry did was the smartest move. We could of let the thread go on and on and ended up with handfuls of MUCH deserved infractions for insulting, trolling and language but we stopped it before it got to that point.

    I mean lets face it, nobody here is ever been shy about circumventing the language filters or getting ugly and personal in their attacks so if we can see its going to turn out badly and we can minimize the outcome then its best we react fast.
    Jennifer Stough likes this.
    05-08-2013 03:39 PM
  13. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I'm not saying you need to agree with me at all. Take me out of this. You were concerned with the reports you were hearing about "lag" and regardless of people stating the contrary, you kept on with it. You listen to the people, apparently. Now they release an update and the people are reporting the exact opposite. Someone says they fixed the supposed "lag" issue and you're the only one I've seen so far that's even mentioned the change log and that if it's not there, maybe it isn't fixed.

    All because you want them to be thorough. So your need for them to care about your experience with a device you don't own/review prompted you to point out that a performance fix wasn't listed on the change log when a user states they fixed it. When an uncounted amount says they fixed it. Here I thought you listened to the reports from other people?

    What you're doing is back tracking. I never said you had to agree with me. I said you seem to talk a lot about this phone and it's issues based off of what you've heard, but ignore the positive and punctuate the negative. I'm all for it, too. It's hilarious because it's like clockwork. I'm not even telling you to stop doing it, but you probably have this wide-eyed look at the screen from surprise and shock when someone calls you out on it. You shouldn't.
    Bold - Because many people WERE (and still are) reporting the issue. There are two sides. People can report they don't have a problem. Other people can report that they do. You have to listen to both sides, but most of the time you choose not to. You punctuate the positive.

    Italics - Now you're being device and manufacturer specific. I was being general. As in, I want ALL companies to be more thorough with changelogs. Maybe stop thinking I'm trying to attack Samsung. My comment about changelogs was directed at EVERY MANUFACTURER.

    Underline
    - I don't ignore the positive. There are quite a few people that rave about the positives all over these forums. What would my voice add to that mix? The few that are having issues have been previously shouted down. As I've stated before, the negatives (big or small) can't be ignored. The people having issues shouldn't be ignored. But yet it still happens.

    For the rest of the underline, nope, not surprised. I don't feel called out. Your response is exactly what I expected it to be. You'll never see how your posts come across from my perspective, and I'll probably never see my posts from your perspective.
    05-08-2013 03:42 PM
  14. madlaw1071's Avatar
    Bold - Because many people WERE (and still are) reporting the issue. There are two sides. People can report they don't have a problem. Other people can report that they do. You have to listen to both sides, but most of the time you choose not to. You punctuate the positive.

    Italics - Now you're being device and manufacturer specific. I was being general. As in, I want ALL companies to be more thorough with changelogs. Maybe stop thinking I'm trying to attack Samsung. My comment about changelogs was directed at EVERY MANUFACTURER.

    Underline
    - I don't ignore the positive. There are quite a few people that rave about the positives all over these forums. What would my voice add to that mix? The few that are having issues have been previously shouted down. As I've stated before, the negatives (big or small) can't be ignored. The people having issues shouldn't be ignored. But yet it still happens.

    For the rest of the underline, nope, not surprised. I don't feel called out. Your response is exactly what I expected it to be. You'll never see how your posts come across from my perspective, and I'll probably never see my posts from your perspective.
    So why are you ignoring the problems on your favored device? Why not accuse HTC of being "shady" for speaker grills falling off when they claim a unibody construction? Just be even handed, that's all I ask.
    05-08-2013 03:45 PM
  15. Topgonzo's Avatar
    So why are you ignoring the problems on your favored device? Why not accuse HTC of being "shady" for speaker grills falling off when they claim a unibody construction? Just be even handed, that's all I ask.
    ? Was htc being shady? Is there a widespread problem with the speakers popping off?
    I don't think so. I mean I'm just looking at this neutrally. Or trying too.
    Htc spoke of a unibody frame that from what pictures appeared to clearly indicated that speakers were not attached to the back.




    Sent from my HTCONE using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
    05-08-2013 03:53 PM
  16. Aquila's Avatar
    ? Was htc being shady? Is there a widespread problem with the speakers popping off?
    I don't think so. I mean I'm just looking at this neutrally. Or trying too.
    Htc spoke of a unibody frame that from what pictures appeared to clearly indicated that speakers were not attached to the back.




    Sent from my HTCONE using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
    Surprise! The buttons are different pieces too. So is the screen.
    05-08-2013 03:56 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    So why are you ignoring the problems on your favored device? Why not accuse HTC of being "shady" for speaker grills falling off when they claim a unibody construction? Just be even handed, that's all I ask.
    The videos of the unibody being milled out of aluminum don't include the speaker grills. That's clear as day. They actually have a separate video showing them being milled as a separate piece (I saw that when I saw Iron Man 3 last night). I get what you're saying, but you picked a poor example. Pretty sure (ONCE AGAIN) that I've acknowledged that the One isn't perfect. People have had to have devices exchanged. I can ACKNOWLEDGE that the device that I own (not mine in particular, but other peoples) isn't perfect and has problems. That's more than I can say for some folks, honestly.

    If you want to keep bringing up "shady" then cool. I'm glad you have to go that far back to find evidence of me (not really even) bashing Samsung. Still waiting on someone, ANYONE, to quote me saying that the S4 is a bad or terrible or bug-ridden device. Anything along those lines, actually, would work. I've said that it has performance issues. I've said that I don't like the materials (that's an opinion and preference, not a bug), I think I've said that I prefer LCD displays somewhere along the way, too. But I haven't said the S4 is terrible, not worth the money, or anything like that.

    Nitpicking my quotes again, too.
    TheLibertarian likes this.
    05-08-2013 03:57 PM
  18. Eric Kane's Avatar
    Bold - Because many people WERE (and still are) reporting the issue. There are two sides. People can report they don't have a problem. Other people can report that they do. You have to listen to both sides, but most of the time you choose not to. You punctuate the positive.

    Italics - Now you're being device and manufacturer specific. I was being general. As in, I want ALL companies to be more thorough with changelogs. Maybe stop thinking I'm trying to attack Samsung. My comment about changelogs was directed at EVERY MANUFACTURER.

    Underline
    - I don't ignore the positive. There are quite a few people that rave about the positives all over these forums. What would my voice add to that mix? The few that are having issues have been previously shouted down. As I've stated before, the negatives (big or small) can't be ignored. The people having issues shouldn't be ignored. But yet it still happens.

    For the rest of the underline, nope, not surprised. I don't feel called out. Your response is exactly what I expected it to be. You'll never see how your posts come across from my perspective, and I'll probably never see my posts from your perspective.
    Who is still reporting the issue? The people who don't have the update? Seriously. That's like me saying my One was overheating (it was), but then reporting it to be an actual issue with the phone even if most everyone else can't replicate it. Read the forums here, XDA, pretty much everywhere; people are either saying it's much faster now or it wasn't lagging to begin with.

    I never said you didn't care about all manufacturers in the same light. I'm talking about this specific situation. It's called keeping things in context.

    Again, who is still having issues? I've been transparent about the issues this entire time. In fact, I put up a thread addressing it, keeping it in perspective, and offering temporary fixes until the update I said would happen soon. It happened. Not to mention the fact that are -you- really helping anyone? You couldn't discern whether the phone was lagging or stuttering before or after the update because it's not in front of you. Instead, you pass around word of mouth instead of actual experience and it seems to directly contradict what people who actually have the phone are saying. Odd.
    05-08-2013 03:58 PM
  19. JHBThree's Avatar
    Who is still reporting the issue? The people who don't have the update? Seriously. That's like me saying my One was overheating (it was), but then reporting it to be an actual issue with the phone even if most everyone else can't replicate it. Read the forums here, XDA, pretty much everywhere; people are either saying it's much faster now or it wasn't lagging to begin with.

    I never said you didn't care about all manufacturers in the same light. I'm talking about this specific situation. It's called keeping things in context.

    Again, who is still having issues? I've been transparent about the issues this entire time. In fact, I put up a thread addressing it, keeping it in perspective, and offering temporary fixes until the update I said would happen soon. It happened. Not to mention the fact that are -you- really helping anyone? You couldn't discern whether the phone was lagging or stuttering before or after the update because it's not in front of you. Instead, you pass around word of mouth instead of actual experience and it seems to directly contradict what people who actually have the phone are saying. Odd.
    Ehh I still have lag every now and then.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    05-08-2013 04:01 PM
  20. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    I like this thread better when everyone is mad at Kevin instead of me.

    05-08-2013 04:01 PM
  21. Eric Kane's Avatar
    Ehh I still have lag every now and then.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    Says everyone about every phone.
    05-08-2013 04:02 PM
  22. Eric Kane's Avatar
    I like this thread better when everyone is mad at Kevin instead of me.

    Can't get mad at someone when they give an honest experience/comparison with phones they've actually used/owned/reviewed.
    05-08-2013 04:04 PM
  23. warpdrive's Avatar
    I like this thread better when everyone is mad at Kevin instead of me.

    Oh we still love you. Heck, feel free to say what you want about any phone. Just keep what you're saying in context and on topic. Once you go off typic tho, all bets are off and you'll get the same results as in your last thread.

    *hugs*

    sent from my S4 using motion gestures!!!!
    05-08-2013 04:12 PM
  24. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Who is still reporting the issue? The people who don't have the update? Seriously. That's like me saying my One was overheating (it was), but then reporting it to be an actual issue with the phone even if most everyone else can't replicate it. Read the forums here, XDA, pretty much everywhere; people are either saying it's much faster now or it wasn't lagging to begin with.

    I never said you didn't care about all manufacturers in the same light. I'm talking about this specific situation. It's called keeping things in context.

    Again, who is still having issues? I've been transparent about the issues this entire time. In fact, I put up a thread addressing it, keeping it in perspective, and offering temporary fixes until the update I said would happen soon. It happened. Not to mention the fact that are -you- really helping anyone? You couldn't discern whether the phone was lagging or stuttering before or after the update because it's not in front of you. Instead, you pass around word of mouth instead of actual experience and it seems to directly contradict what people who actually have the phone are saying. Odd.
    Bold - I'll use your own example then. It doesn't matter if it can really be replicated. If you have an issue, and can prove it if need be (not to us, but in case of an exchange or something) then it's an issue. You can most definitely post about it in the forums. That's why they're here.

    My context was different than yours. You're keeping it in the context that best suits your argument. Nice try. This thread (that you created) was about S4/One bias. Not just one manufacturer. I just kinda went back to the OP.
    05-08-2013 04:12 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Can't get mad at someone when they give an honest experience/comparison with phones they've actually used/owned/reviewed.
    I think the idea that one has to own something to have an opinion of it is wrong. 2 examples, one extreme and one directly on point; both illustrate the distinction between knowledge and possession. Clearly we know people can own something and know next to nothing about it, otherwise we'd all be engineers and physicists in order to watch television or drive a car. The reverse is also true. I can study the teachings of others about whatever subject and gain knowledge about it, without necessarily having to repeat every experiment myself.

    1. I have never owned a slave, but I know I'd rather not have slaves than have slaves. I can confidently advocate the correctness of my position to anyone contemplating such a purchase, despite never have been in their position directly.
    2. I have never owned an iPhone. I've played with several, but never an iPhone 5. That being said, I know, through reviews and comments people have made about it, that nothing changed in iOS therefore I can logically extrapolate that it is still wildly inferior to just about every major Ice Cream Sandwich or Jelly Bean flagship device out there.

    There is obviously a point where this stops, because clearly you can't describe how something feels, having never felt it... but you can quote trusted sources on their findings. This is why it is not necessary for every human to go to the moon; we sent some people and some robots and got some data and can give everyone a review of what it is like and what things we might be able to find useful varies.
    05-08-2013 04:12 PM
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