05-29-2013 07:06 PM
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  1. jusmebabe's Avatar
    If they didn't sue each other all the time they couldn't overcharge for the phones. :beer:

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Android Central Forums
    05-14-2013 05:00 PM
  2. jroc's Avatar
    I see some ppl mentioned Samsung sues too....well in this case what was Samsung supposed to do? They had to counter sue if they could.

    All I know is I'm getting tired of all the lawsuits. And lets be real...alot of these lawsuits were started by Apple. I wish there was no such thing as FRAND patents. Lets see how many lawsuits Apple would win or attempt then. Comparing Google to Apple for lawsuits.....thats like comparing pop warner, little league football to the NFL... Yea just about every company does it. Apple is the king of the lawsuits right now tho. Apple just dont want a repeat of the Mac vs Windows wars. Buts its already too late. And what they feel gates stole from them. The Samsung vs Apple lawsuits should be a made for TV movie like Pirates of Silicon Valley. And it amazes me that back then I actually felt bad for Apple, rooted for Apple.

    Times sure have changed....

    Everybody saying Apple has a right to protect their inventions, innovations.....they day I will agree with that is the day I see appliance makers, TV, monitor makers suing each other. Samsung vs LG is one example for screen technology, they sued each other. And amazingly thats probably the only one or one of the few. Apple sued over icons, shapes, round corners.... So please with "Apple should sue to protect their stuff" Thank god Apple isnt into other markets.... And hind sight being 20/20....LG and the LG Prada coulda been the company, phone every body would say changed the smartphone game.... Apple executed better and had better marketing. Or if Apple woulda never did the oirg iPhone....the LG Prada would be the iconic smartphone everybody tries to give all the credit to.

    Sue for something worthwhile. Then, maybe I will agree that Apple needs to. This is the same Apple that claimed financial damages from Samsung copying and stealing....and yet every......every ....version of the iPhone has outsold the previous one. Every.....every......iPhone launch on a new carrier has set sales records. Apple is becoming more of a joke every month, year.
    05-14-2013 05:44 PM
  3. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    Imagine a world where companies didn't infringe on other companies patents. Instead they would develop the own ****. That spawn innovation. Not copying.

    Actually it is. For example, Henry Ford's "method" of assembling cars. I can only shutter to think what would have happened to innovation if the Apple patent addicts had been around in Henry Ford's day.

    "In United States patent law, a method, also called "process", is one of the four principal categories of things that may be patented through "utility patents". The other three are a machine, an article of manufacture (also termed a manufacture), and a composition of matter."
    Like Xerox with their copiers ? New innovations every year. Patents are designed to give the inventors or visionary people (those that buy companies that are on to something) a head start. Henry Ford patented everything on the model T, to include four wheels. That didn't stifle innovations in the auto industry. I am sure Henry sued those that violated his patents. Patent suits happen all the time, Apple is just in the news more than other companies.
    05-15-2013 12:46 PM
  4. tohio's Avatar
    Imagine a world where companies didn't infringe on other companies patents. Instead they would develop the own ****. That spawn innovation. Not copying.



    Like Xerox with their copiers ? New innovations every year. Patents are designed to give the inventors or visionary people (those that buy companies that are on to something) a head start. Henry Ford patented everything on the model T, to include four wheels. That didn't stifle innovations in the auto industry. I am sure Henry sued those that violated his patents. Patent suits happen all the time, Apple is just in the news more than other companies.
    Actually, according to history, the gist of your post is questionable.. Henry Ford fought and won against a patent that would have prevented him form making automobiles. Similar to what would happen to the smart phone industry if Apple's patents were all upheld. The Selden patent was similar to Apple's claim:

    "At the very beginning of the American auto industry, a group of carmakers made a blatant attempt to establish an industrial policy for their own benefit. In the guise of protecting the public from unreliable upstarts and fly-by-nights, they formed the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers (ALAM) in 1903. The industry was in its infancy, but there were already complaints about some of the crude entrepreneurs who were entering the field. The 11 car manufacturers who formed the ALAM promised to tidy things up a bit.

    Their weapon was the 1895 Selden patent, and their claim was that it covered all gasoline-powered vehicles. By controlling this patent they asserted the right to decide who should be allowed to build and sell cars. Carmakers who didnt join the ALAM and pay royalties on each car sold could be sued and possibly forced out of business."

    Henry Ford fought the patent and eventually won. See this article for the full details: How Henry Ford Zapped a Licensing Monopoly : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education
    Henry Ford did not patent the wheel!
    05-15-2013 01:13 PM
  5. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    Actually, according to history, the gist of your post is questionable.. Henry Ford fought and won against a patent that would have prevented him form making automobiles. Similar to what would happen to the smart phone industry if Apple's patents were all upheld. The Selden patent was similar to Apple's claim:

    "At the very beginning of the American auto industry, a group of carmakers made a blatant attempt to establish an industrial policy for their own benefit. In the guise of protecting the public from unreliable upstarts and fly-by-nights, they formed the Association of Licensed Automobile Manufacturers (ALAM) in 1903. The industry was in its infancy, but there were already complaints about some of the crude entrepreneurs who were entering the field. The 11 car manufacturers who formed the ALAM promised to tidy things up a bit.

    Their weapon was the 1895 Selden patent, and their claim was that it covered all gasoline-powered vehicles. By controlling this patent they asserted the right to decide who should be allowed to build and sell cars. Carmakers who didnt join the ALAM and pay royalties on each car sold could be sued and possibly forced out of business."

    Henry Ford fought the patent and eventually won. See this article for the full details: How Henry Ford Zapped a Licensing Monopoly : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education
    Henry Ford did not patent the wheel!
    I didn't originally bring up Henry Ford, you did. And Henry patented the crap out of it. Everything, to include using four wheels. Kinda like Apple did with the iPhone. It's all right there on Google Patents.

    Nor is Apple trying to keep anyone else from making phones. They are only trying to protect their patents. Samsung internal documentation even states that they were trying to copy the look and feel of the iPhone. Compare the icons of Google Wallet, Microsoft's Wallet (whatever it's called), Apple's Passport, and Samsung's rendition of it. Samsung begs Apple to sue them.
    05-15-2013 02:11 PM
  6. tohio's Avatar
    I didn't originally bring up Henry Ford, you did. And Henry patented the crap out of it. Everything, to include using four wheels. Kinda like Apple did with the iPhone. It's all right there on Google Patents.

    Nor is Apple trying to keep anyone else from making phones. They are only trying to protect their patents. Samsung internal documentation even states that they were trying to copy the look and feel of the iPhone. Compare the icons of Google Wallet, Microsoft's Wallet (whatever it's called), Apple's Passport, and Samsung's rendition of it. Samsung begs Apple to sue them.
    No, but you brought him up in a subsequent post and I was addressing that post. Can you provide a reference to the fact the Henry Ford patented using four wheels? I've never see that information. The counterpoint to your post was that Apple, like Selden, tried (is trying) to corner the market through questionable means rather than innovation. I gave you an example of patent law that would have restricted innovation. That is exactly the sames situation we have now with Apple. Funny that you brought up Xerox. Apple has been accused of stealing the idea for the mouse from Xerox. Had Xerox behaved patent-wise like Apple only one company would have the mouse today.
    05-15-2013 02:58 PM
  7. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    Of course they didn't invent it but they CHANGED the Smart Phone by making it what it is today.

    Can you really say we would have the One's and S4's if Apple sticked to Macs? I believe we would still be in QWERTY keyboard, Sliders and 3" SD Screens.

    Apple just wants the credit or this case money they deserve.



    SHIFT_tapatalk 2 s4 SGH-I377M
    Apple changed the Smartphone into what it was in 2010. SAMSUNG changed it into what it is today. Apple is still stuck in 2010 which is exactly why people are switching to other devices and leaving the iPhone. Also, Macs wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Xerox so let's not pretend Apple has ever invented anything.
    tohio likes this.
    05-15-2013 03:52 PM
  8. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    but I don't have a problem with a company doing what the system allows them to do.
    I do. And I know it wont change anything, but being unethical just because it's technically "legal" isn't something I choose to support. That's my problem with Apple. There's a lot of things consumers might do that are technically legal, but would and does infuriate Apple and other huge corporations. But it's okay for them to turn around and adopt the same mentality. I know the system is broken, but it's unethical crooks like Apple that ruin the consumer experience. If they spent half as much time and effort with research and development as they do litigation, we'd all win. And don't say they are spending time on that, or we would have gotten the iPhone 5 in 2011.
    05-15-2013 03:57 PM
  9. The WheelMan's Avatar
    Of course they didn't invent it but they CHANGED the Smart Phone by making it what it is today.

    Can you really say we would have the One's and S4's if Apple sticked to Macs? I believe we would still be in QWERTY keyboard, Sliders and 3" SD Screens.

    Apple just wants the credit or this case money they deserve.



    SHIFT_tapatalk 2 s4 SGH-I377M
    That's like saying that if Edison hadn't invented the light bulb, no one would have. In a matter of time someone would have invented touch screen technology. After all, Apple may have invented the modern touchscreen cellphone concept, but E.A. Johnson invented the original touchscreen technology in the 60s. Apple is great in themselves, but they in no way deserve to own the concept of a touchscreen device. It was inevitable. Jobs just beat everyone else to the punch.
    tohio likes this.
    05-15-2013 04:00 PM
  10. tarnak's Avatar
    I do. And I know it wont change anything, but being unethical just because it's technically "legal" isn't something I choose to support. That's my problem with Apple. There's a lot of things consumers might do that are technically legal, but would and does infuriate Apple and other huge corporations. But it's okay for them to turn around and adopt the same mentality. I know the system is broken, but it's unethical crooks like Apple that ruin the consumer experience. If they spent half as much time and effort with research and development as they do litigation, we'd all win. And don't say they are spending time on that, or we would have gotten the iPhone 5 in 2011.
    Or at least an Iphone on par with 2012 models. they would have to make major changes to the next one to even come close to this years Android models.
    05-15-2013 04:00 PM
  11. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    Or at least an Iphone on par with 2012 models. they would have to make major changes to the next one to even come close to this years Android models.
    Exactly. Honestly, if Apple released the iPhone 5 in 2011 (it has technology that almost all other phones had at the time) I probably would have gotten it. Instead, they released the iPhone 4s which came packaged with a personal assistant we all know as Siri and that was the ONLY new and "exciting" feature. They stopped innovating and they had to toss in software they bought out from under Verizon in 2009 as their only new feature. When I saw the joke that was the 4s, I went with the Bionic and I thank heaven I did because that introduced me to Android and i've been happy ever since. Then Apple comes out with the iPhone 5 which had 'new' and exciting features that my Bionic had when the iPhone 4s was released! I mean come on Apple! You're better than this. I may not like the way your unethical company operates, but I know dang well you can release a better product for your consumer than you have the last two years.
    05-15-2013 04:07 PM
  12. ashkir's Avatar
    So. I do have some questions. Why are patents awarded for such simple things? It seems like Apple tried to patent transparent images on top of any other image, which seems like a super common standard web tactic. It got rejected though. So did several other of their patents for being obvious or other reasons. And didn't Samsung's sensor get rejected for being too obvious?

    Now, I do have a question, why is Apple constantly winning in American courts? And Samsung in foreign courts? It seems they have the same lawsuit going on in several countries at one time. I saw an article not long ago of Apple stating that technology patents need to be shared for innovation and they turn around and sue again?

    And for the lawsuit against the galaxy tab 2 10.1 they stated it copied iPad's design and UI functionality. I tried it. Man, it's so different than iOS. Can you patent a shape? Or something like that?

    Sorry. These things confuse me. I played with the iPhone 5. My family loves it, super user friendly for a good jump to smartphones, but the learning curve of android won me over. I'm even trading my iPad 2 for the Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 since my dad doesn't like his that is brand new.
    05-15-2013 04:09 PM
  13. tohio's Avatar
    ...Now, I do have a question, why is Apple constantly winning in American courts? And Samsung in foreign courts? It seems they have the same lawsuit going on in several countries at one time. I saw an article not long ago of Apple stating that technology patents need to be shared for innovation and they turn around and sue again?
    Can't answer all your questions but two reasons for the winning in different countries: Apple is a very powerful company (economically) in the US. Also, US Patent Law enforcement is the strictest in the world but, in my opinion, it is ridiculously easy to patent something in the US. You only have to look at Apple to see the truth in that.
    05-15-2013 04:43 PM
  14. BillyMichael92's Avatar
    No sure about that. Following that logic Henry Ford should have sued anyone who ever used an assembly line. That is a prime example of how Apple is trying to stifle innovation. If Henry Ford had been successful in a patent battle regarding the assembly line (assuming he had every filed a patent lawsuit) how fast would the automobile have developed and how high would automobile prices be without other manufactures being able to use the assembly line?

    EDIT: BTW, I believe you have to invent something to patent it. You don't get patents by changing existing things.
    I couldn't agree with this more. It is companies like this that slow down the development of technology. Apple may have created one of the first smart phones but as far as I'm concerned this does not mean that no other companies should be able to create more advanced phones also

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2
    05-15-2013 04:55 PM
  15. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    That's like saying that if Edison hadn't invented the light bulb, no one would have. In a matter of time someone would have invented touch screen technology. After all, Apple may have invented the modern touchscreen cellphone concept, but E.A. Johnson invented the original touchscreen technology in the 60s. Apple is great in themselves, but they in no way deserve to own the concept of a touchscreen device. It was inevitable. Jobs just beat everyone else to the punch.
    It's not about touch screen, it's about multi touch. Multi touch was invented and patented by a company that Apple bought. Apple now holds the patents for multi touch.

    No, but you brought him up in a subsequent post and I was addressing that post. Can you provide a reference to the fact the Henry Ford patented using four wheels? I've never see that information. The counterpoint to your post was that Apple, like Selden, tried (is trying) to corner the market through questionable means rather than innovation. I gave you an example of patent law that would have restricted innovation. That is exactly the sames situation we have now with Apple. Funny that you brought up Xerox. Apple has been accused of stealing the idea for the mouse from Xerox. Had Xerox behaved patent-wise like Apple only one company would have the mouse today.
    I don't have the time to dig through Henry's patents and read his write ups, I'll concede. However, Selden never built an automobile,and never intended to, he was a modern day patent troll. Apple makes products, using the patents they defend.

    Patent US3541541 - POSITION POT - Google Patents

    First patent for a mouse was 1967. Not by Xerox. Xerox did make some improvements to the mouse, which they did patent. However I was referencing the copier. They had the patents, they built the copiers, they continued to innovate and improve the copy process, without competition. The patents expired, the technology became public domain.

    I couldn't agree with this more. It is companies like this that slow down the development of technology. Apple may have created one of the first smart phones but as far as I'm concerned this does not mean that no other companies should be able to create more advanced phones also

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2
    Will someone please explain how trying to keep someone from stealing or copying your patents is slowing down the development of technology ? It would seem the opposite would be the case. By protecting my patents, it forces you to come up with your own ideas and find a better and more effective way of doing things.
    05-15-2013 06:25 PM
  16. return_0's Avatar
    Um, they invented it and don't want it copied.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Android Central Forums
    They invented nothing? Because that's all we know about the nature of the lawsuit at this moment. Nothing.

    So you're actually correct in that they invented nothing.

    Except patent trolling. Wait, they stole that, too.
    05-15-2013 06:26 PM
  17. return_0's Avatar
    They won't leave EACH OTHER alone. Samsung is not a victim here man LOL. They sue others just as well.
    No, Samsung is just countersuing to defend themselves. And suing other companies is fine. But Samsung (unlike Apple) isn't doing it to the point where the volume and ridiculousness of the lawsuits make the company an outright patent troll.
    Golfdriver97 likes this.
    05-15-2013 06:28 PM
  18. return_0's Avatar
    If they didn't sue each other all the time they couldn't overcharge for the phones. :beer:

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Android Central Forums
    Maybe that's how Google is selling the N4 for such a low price :O
    05-15-2013 06:30 PM
  19. sfla99's Avatar
    Because Samsung and the other cell vendors had phones with all touch screen interfaces before the popularity of the iPhone. I am not defending apple but if you can honestly sit here no say that Samsung does not rip of their design esthetic and style you are simply lying to your self.

    It was not until the s3 Samsung started trying to ween its design away from the iPhone, heck look at the chrome book, sure that doesn't look exactly like a Mac book air, so much that one of their adverts has OS X icons ill the browser view of the advert.

    These are great companies, but that fact remains that Samsung has built an empire off stealing apples designs and concepts.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    05-15-2013 06:34 PM
  20. return_0's Avatar
    Because Samsung and the other cell vendors had phones with all touch screen interfaces before the popularity of the iPhone. I am not defending apple but if you can honestly sit here no say that Samsung does not rip of their design esthetic and style you are simply lying to your self.

    It was not until the s3 Samsung started trying to ween its design away from the iPhone, heck look at the chrome book, sure that doesn't look exactly like a Mac book air, so much that one of their adverts has OS X icons ill the browser view of the advert.

    These are great companies, but that fact remains that Samsung has built an empire off stealing apples designs and concepts.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    You simply cannot say Samsung copied Apple by using a touch screen. The iPhone wasn't the first touchscreen phone.

    Sent from my pure Google Nexus 4 using Android Central Forums
    05-15-2013 06:55 PM
  21. sfla99's Avatar
    Yes even my treo had a touch screen but come on, after the explosion of iOS and the iPhone every vendor followed apples lead and tried to copy the experience as best they could. So I am not saying Samsung alone did this, every one has. Wo makes a tactile phone these days?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    05-15-2013 06:59 PM
  22. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    Not touch people, but multi touch. Two different things. Multi touch can differentiate three or more points. Did the damn Treo have gestures ?I know my PDAs from the dateless past didn't.
    05-15-2013 07:14 PM
  23. gozirra's Avatar
    Now, I do have a question, why is Apple constantly winning in American courts?
    The simple answer is, Apple hires technobabble-speaking lawyers, going up against judges whose technical expertise stems from watching Tim The Toolman Taylor grunt on TV.
    05-15-2013 08:25 PM
  24. tohio's Avatar
    It's not about touch screen, it's about multi touch. Multi touch was invented and patented by a company that Apple bought. Apple now holds the patents for multi touch.



    I don't have the time to dig through Henry's patents and read his write ups, I'll concede. However, Selden never built an automobile,and never intended to, he was a modern day patent troll. Apple makes products, using the patents they defend.

    Patent US3541541 - POSITION POT - Google Patents


    First patent for a mouse was 1967. Not by Xerox. Xerox did make some improvements to the mouse, which they did patent. However I was referencing the copier. They had the patents, they built the copiers, they continued to innovate and improve the copy process, without competition. The patents expired, the technology became public domain.



    Will someone please explain how trying to keep someone from stealing or copying your patents is slowing down the development of technology ? It would seem the opposite would be the case. By protecting my patents, it forces you to come up with your own ideas and find a better and more effective way of doing things.
    OK, here's the whole argument in a nutshell.

    "Steve Jobs did not steal much from Xerox. The visit to the PARC that day inspired him to improve what has already been discovered. This is how innovation works. You can do the same. Look around, get inspired, innovate."
    source: Steve Jobs and Xerox: The Truth About Innovation by ZURB

    If a patent had been scrupulously enforced for the mouse Jobs couldn't have innovated or improved. That's the whole point.
    SRI licensed the computer mouse technology to Apple, Xerox, and other companies. The patent didn't expire until 1987.

    I'm afraid you are blowing smoke when you say Henry Ford patented the use of four wheels. But prove me wrong and I'll eat my virtual hat.
    jroc likes this.
    05-15-2013 09:06 PM
  25. jroc's Avatar
    All I will say again is:

    Thank god Apple isnt into other markets....
    Motherboards, PC cases, hard drives, disk drives, monitors, TV's, cars, car interiors, car exteriors, car engines, speakers, video game software, game consoles, appliances, beds, couches, furniture, building materials, windows, lamps, ect, ect have ALL been innovated upon to great lengths. I would argue ALOT more so than what Apple did with the smartphone. ....How come there arent all these lawsuits in other markets? Why does Apple seem so sue happy compared to other companies in other markets? Nothing slowed down by companies not suing in other markets. Great strides were made in many, many, many markets with no lawsuits.

    There have been a sprinkle of lawsuits in other markets....but no where to the lengths of what Apple has done/is doing. Thats the point some seem to overlook. Great innovation happens in many, many other areas....where some things can be seen as copies of something that came before it.....without all the lawsuits.
    tohio likes this.
    05-15-2013 10:34 PM
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