05-30-2013 03:11 PM
54 123
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  1. slackerjack's Avatar
    Not really.....today's software is global. HTC trolls samsung and that is why they die. The Android OS they decided to carry saves that company. Samsung never needed metal. HTC did....and they need android because their software is the worst mobile experience as voted by the readers.......to many lover boys rave the one..........

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    Uh if your talking about kernal software, or middleware as it were, neither Samsung or Htc is responsible...Both bought chips from Qualcomm for this generation, so I'm not sure I understand your point

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-25-2013 08:09 AM
  2. Johnly's Avatar
    Uh if your talking about kernal software, or middleware as it were, neither Samsung or Htc is responsible...Both bought chips from Qualcomm for this generation, so I'm not sure I understand your point

    Posted via Android Central App
    Lol. ... carry on.....I am not trying to make a point other than benchmarks are nothing worth clamoring over. Real world usage. If you want to test hardware against each other, you MUST run the same OS. If you want to battle the OS, then they should be optimized on the same hardware and benchmarked. Those two scenarios do not exist. So some real world videos would be killer! Thank you in advance:thumbup:

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    05-26-2013 01:50 PM
  3. Johnly's Avatar
    I'm not sure I follow, though I suppose I do owe an explanation of the testbed:

    Both devices on latest firmware according to sprints ota rollout...

    Memory clear after each test run with a minimum of three tests averaged for finak results (antutu being the only benchmark run to really mitigate huge variance)

    I'm my initial test run, I did not reboot the devices between tests, though from suggestions above, I did try to see if there was further variance...in 2/3 tests I tried...there really wasnt any discernable difference.

    Hope that helps!

    Posted via Android Central App
    Post them videos. .... this thread is boring without something to watch. :thumbdown:

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    05-26-2013 01:55 PM
  4. recDNA's Avatar
    User experience is all that matters to me. Why would I care what my phone scored in a TEST? How does that help me?
    I'm just mad VZW took the choice away from me!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
    05-26-2013 03:07 PM
  5. slackerjack's Avatar
    Post them videos. .... this thread is boring without something to watch. :thumbdown:

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    I think the only thing more boring than sitting through those tests, would be watching a YouTube video of someone sitting through those tests...lol

    Again, I think the point of this thread was missed somewhere along the line. I didn't want tho have a discussion about which device its better for "you" that is subjective and too personal a topic. Look at the defensiveness that generated from this topic...unintentionally. I was instated in discussing the platform, and comparing Apples to Apple's in the best manner possible...synthetics. Everyone keeps glazing over the point...that one is, not feels, not looks, IS faster than the other...and as indescribably hard it would be to quantify all the differences in experience, people automatically leap to it...such is life. I forget that I am a hardware guy and I think in terms of 10% being a "holy cow what happened there" indicator...the masses do not, and they're probably better for it.

    I'll liken this topic too what are assuredly will be innumerable topics about which is faster...the xbox one or ps4...and I'll equally lose my mind when someone makes a dumb blanket statement like "the hardware is the same so performance is similar" while I'm looking at the math saying "are you joking? The ps4 he's nearly twice the memory bandwidth...and holy god...why did Microsoft choose too use memory thats older than my youngest daughter and clocked so much slower than the competition"...Again...I'm just that guy, it's what I do for a living...no harm no foul!

    Jack

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-27-2013 10:54 AM
  6. Robes1NC's Avatar
    I have had both devices for at least 3 days each. First it was the One. The radio could barely hold a signal and the speed was nice. The speakers were nice and the sound from the headphone jack was awesome. I returned it because I didn't have a signal at home. That's when I got the S4 and I've never had a signal problem. It has 2 bars where the one had none on the same network (AT&T). Once I did the sound test in the music app and it adjusted the sound to my own ears it was perfect! Almost as good as the bests experience but the battery last much much longer and charges 3 times as fast. It actually still charges if I use it while it's plugged in. The one would lose power while I used it plugged in. This is a better overall phone.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    05-27-2013 12:20 PM
  7. recDNA's Avatar
    But how can you quantify stutter?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    05-27-2013 12:22 PM
  8. planoman's Avatar
    I think the only thing more boring than sitting through those tests, would be watching a YouTube video of someone sitting through those tests...lol

    Again, I think the point of this thread was missed somewhere along the line. I didn't want tho have a discussion about which device its better for "you" that is subjective and too personal a topic. Look at the defensiveness that generated from this topic...unintentionally. I was instated in discussing the platform, and comparing Apples to Apple's in the best manner possible...synthetics. Everyone keeps glazing over the point...that one is, not feels, not looks, IS faster than the other...and as indescribably hard it would be to quantify all the differences in experience, people automatically leap to it...such is life. I forget that I am a hardware guy and I think in terms of 10% being a "holy cow what happened there" indicator...the masses do not, and they're probably better for it.

    I'll liken this topic too what are assuredly will be innumerable topics about which is faster...the xbox one or ps4...and I'll equally lose my mind when someone makes a dumb blanket statement like "the hardware is the same so performance is similar" while I'm looking at the math saying "are you joking? The ps4 he's nearly twice the memory bandwidth...and holy god...why did Microsoft choose too use memory thats older than my youngest daughter and clocked so much slower than the competition"...Again...I'm just that guy, it's what I do for a living...no harm no foul!

    Jack

    Posted via Android Central App
    My .02 is that it looks like most do not want to be or really cannot be objective when their money is concerned. The fact that people jump on new phones with the latest and greatest processor tell us that they inherently want the latest and greatest because they are mere fractions of seconds faster at doing tasks that they use their devices for. Then where they disagree with a benchmark they pull the "real world" speech. Why upgrade to a quad core then because the "real world" difference is very slight improvement. People often push back on data even when the data is correct.

    The bottom line is that benchmarks take bias out of the equation. The totality of benchmarks are not incorrect, people are. If you use enough benchmarks and compare them the scores speak for themselves. Whether people agree with them or even care about them is another issue. Again, I would have purchased the S4 over the HTC one regardless of the benchmarks. I have owned every Galaxy S model and every Galaxy Note model and will probably continue. It just happens to be faster than the HTC One... lol!
    slackerjack likes this.
    05-27-2013 12:47 PM
  9. Mikey47's Avatar
    I'm just trying too have a discussion about "the metal"'so to speak
    If you're truly interested in testing metal, and not just trying to make your shiny new S4 look good, load the exact same ROM on each phone and run your tests again. Until then you can't rule out any cheating from either phone/software (not that I believe either is).
    Johnly likes this.
    05-27-2013 01:11 PM
  10. Johnly's Avatar
    If you're truly interested in testing metal, and not just trying to make your shiny new S4 look good, load the exact same ROM on each phone and run your tests again. Until then you can't rule out any cheating from either phone/software (not that I believe either is).
    Well said




    And my overall feeling of this thread? Yawwwwwnnnnn..........zzzzzzzzzzz

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    05-28-2013 11:47 AM
  11. Johnly's Avatar
    I think the only thing more boring than sitting through those tests, would be watching a YouTube video of someone sitting through those tests...lol

    Again, I think the point of this thread was missed somewhere along the line. I didn't want tho have a discussion about which device its better for "you" that is subjective and too personal a topic. Look at the defensiveness that generated from this topic...unintentionally. I was instated in discussing the platform, and comparing Apples to Apple's in the best manner possible...synthetics. Everyone keeps glazing over the point...that one is, not feels, not looks, IS faster than the other...and as indescribably hard it would be to quantify all the differences in experience, people automatically leap to it...such is life. I forget that I am a hardware guy and I think in terms of 10% being a "holy cow what happened there" indicator...the masses do not, and they're probably better for it.

    I'll liken this topic too what are assuredly will be innumerable topics about which is faster...the xbox one or ps4...and I'll equally lose my mind when someone makes a dumb blanket statement like "the hardware is the same so performance is similar" while I'm looking at the math saying "are you joking? The ps4 he's nearly twice the memory bandwidth...and holy god...why did Microsoft choose too use memory thats older than my youngest daughter and clocked so much slower than the competition"...Again...I'm just that guy, it's what I do for a living...no harm no foul!

    Jack

    Posted via Android Central App
    No worries. I just completely disagree with the mode being used. Thats all. Have a good day Jack.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    05-28-2013 11:52 AM
  12. SCjRqrQCnBQ19QoYCtdl's Avatar
    I know some people get off on getting the highest bench mark scores. For me, I don't care if one device scores 3x better on a bench mark, as long as my device is fast and smooth. If a score of X is sufficient for fast, smooth operations, a score of 1.5x is great and a score of 2x, while 33% higher, is not a meaningful difference.
    Mikey47 likes this.
    05-28-2013 12:32 PM
  13. abishai#AC's Avatar
    If you're truly interested in testing metal, and not just trying to make your shiny new S4 look good, load the exact same ROM on each phone and run your tests again. Until then you can't rule out any cheating from either phone/software (not that I believe either is).
    I'm sure that will be done with the developer editions of these both running stock android. Don't kid yourself and think that when that happens the HTC One will magically outdo the S4 on benchmarks though. If the S4 can beat the One with it's bloated and non optimized OS what do you think is going to happen when you remove that bloat? Doubt their score will suddenly drop lower than the One.

    If this was a general performance thread I could understand the One fanboys coming out to defend the perceived smoothness of Sense over Touchwiz on the S4 but this is based on benchmarks with numbers. Those numbers are higher on the S4 than the One, period. This discussion seems to have been started to figure out why given the similar hardware and all we get are members of the Anecdotal Defense League coming out to defend why their phone is "better" because it "feels" better.
    orion575 and chevyman29 like this.
    05-28-2013 01:34 PM
  14. slackerjack's Avatar
    So you're suggesting that I secretly handicap both devices by eliminating optimizations completed by both HTC and Samsung, not to mention put the gs4 on an os for which oft was never intended? And not to disparage Rom makers of the world...but I think you'd have a bigger argument on your hands about "objectivity" and potential cheats in those ROMs...not because of anyone doing anything below board..but because you'd be looking at pieces of work largely unqualified buy anyone but that developers. If anything, I think that looking at the nexus editions of those are made available...at least it's be a level(er) playing field.

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-28-2013 02:21 PM
  15. natehoy's Avatar
    The fact that the One is currently running 4.1.2 while the S4 is running 4.2.2 is very significant in benchmarks - the One is already at a disadvantage benchmark-wise because every Android release generally comes with improved hardware drivers for common hardware, bug fixes, and general improvements in underlying performance. 4.1 and 4.2 are not vastly different, but they're still many months apart in terms of the Android development cycle.
    05-28-2013 02:53 PM
  16. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    So you're suggesting that I secretly handicap both devices by eliminating optimizations completed by both HTC and Samsung, not to mention put the gs4 on an os for which oft was never intended? And not to disparage Rom makers of the world...but I think you'd have a bigger argument on your hands about "objectivity" and potential cheats in those ROMs...not because of anyone doing anything below board..but because you'd be looking at pieces of work largely unqualified buy anyone but that developers. If anything, I think that looking at the nexus editions of those are made available...at least it's be a level(er) playing field.

    Posted via Android Central App
    You yourself said you wanted to talk about the metal and figure out what the difference in performance could be contributed to. Then you refuse to eliminate software as a potential variable. Tell me again what you're trying to accomplish?

    Yes, the Google Editions would be great for this type of comparison, but really, the S4 has a higher clock speed. Did anyone expect it to score lower on benchmarks? When those come out, and if the difference in scores between the two are smaller, can we lay this to rest with the fact that the difference is software?

    Also, it is well known that nVidia and ATI optimized for specific synthetic benchmarks. Obviously it's really easy to get caught, since they did. :-)

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Johnly likes this.
    05-28-2013 06:54 PM
  17. slackerjack's Avatar
    You yourself said you wanted to talk about the metal and figure out what the difference in performance could be contributed to. Then you refuse to eliminate software as a potential variable. Tell me again what you're trying to accomplish?

    Yes, the Google Editions would be great for this type of comparison, but really, the S4 has a higher clock speed. Did anyone expect it to score lower on benchmarks? When those come out, and if the difference in scores between the two are smaller, can we lay this to rest with the fact that the difference is software?

    Also, it is well known that nVidia and ATI optimized for specific synthetic benchmarks. Obviously it's really easy to get caught, since they did. :-)

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Putting them on equal platforms only works if its not some half baked homebrew OS, again...not a knock at the developers...but reliable as a test bed? Just no. Both HTC and Samsung will have some low level driver control even in AOSP, that does make a fair(er) test.

    And yes, I'd certainly consider putting the s4 on 4.1 for which drivers were never written by the manufacturer and have to get hacked to get functional a legitimate disadvantage, so I agree that the developer editions are going to be the best level testbed. You are dreaming, however if you think the performance gap is going to do anything but widen under AOSP, as you mentioned...clock speed is a differentiator, but doesn't explain a much larger difference in performance than most of you are willing to admit in flat testing...but the fact that its NOT like for like hardware, a fact that everyone outside of Anandtech just glazes over and puts in the "it shouldn't matter that much" category will likely rear its head again. Here's hoping I get to eat my words...I actually like to be proven wrong. But I'm rarely offmy game as it pertains to this subject, in fact...people pay me for my expertise in that arena.

    For the record, I hold a PhD in mathematics, a BFA in CGI animation...I worked for both ATI and Nvidia in the last 6 years and was with 3dfx before that. My primary specialty is AF and adaptive AA algorithms in driver support. You won't find many people who are as a qualified nerd as me! Who knew a well thought out plan to play videogames for the rest of my life would turn into actual work.

    Jack

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-29-2013 04:46 PM
  18. droric's Avatar
    I question how you know the sensors are still being used? I know i tested the 'Air view' sensor by turning on the 'Quick glance' feature and checking the IR emitter with a camera phone (see's IR as visible light). Then I turned off the 'quick glance' setting and the IR light ceased to be activated while the phone was off. Are you sure there features you missed that are keeping the sensors on?

    The problem with the S4 might be the sensors. Even when turned off, they apparently draw the power, which means they are probably polling, but just not giving user output.

    Just a thought, since the other issue could be the gpu handling the data to a1080 display, but the One apparently does not have the issues.
    05-29-2013 05:04 PM
  19. natehoy's Avatar
    Putting them on equal platforms only works if its not some half baked homebrew OS, again...not a knock at the developers...but reliable as a test bed? Just no. Both HTC and Samsung will have some low level driver control even in AOSP, that does make a fair(er) test.

    And yes, I'd certainly consider putting the s4 on 4.1 for which drivers were never written by the manufacturer and have to get hacked to get functional a legitimate disadvantage, so I agree that the developer editions are going to be the best level testbed. You are dreaming, however if you think the performance gap is going to do anything but widen under AOSP, as you mentioned...clock speed is a differentiator, but doesn't explain a much larger difference in performance than most of you are willing to admit in flat testing...but the fact that its NOT like for like hardware, a fact that everyone outside of Anandtech just glazes over and puts in the "it shouldn't matter that much" category will likely rear its head again. Here's hoping I get to eat my words...I actually like to be proven wrong. But I'm rarely offmy game as it pertains to this subject, in fact...people pay me for my expertise in that arena.

    For the record, I hold a PhD in mathematics, a BFA in CGI animation...I worked for both ATI and Nvidia in the last 6 years and was with 3dfx before that. My primary specialty is AF and adaptive AA algorithms in driver support. You won't find many people who are as a qualified nerd as me! Who knew a well thought out plan to play videogames for the rest of my life would turn into actual work.

    Jack

    Posted via Android Central App
    For someone with so many letters after your name, I don't get what you are trying to compare, then. You are testing two different devices with a known delta in hardware specs between them and asking why the actual delta in performance is so much higher.

    The only factor is either other components such as faster memory or an optimized architecture between the chipset and other components, or differences in the hardware drivers. Given that the two are running different Android kernels and were built over the same chipset but at different clockspeeds at different factories with different design parameters, you'll have to get detailed hardware specs for each device to know for sure.

    But, honestly, given that the "unexpectedly faster" machine is running a newer kernel and newer version of the OS overlay, and ALSO given that patches have come out for the "unexpectedly faster" machine that fix some of the lagginess (which you'd expect might increase performance), I think it's very reasonable to assume that software can account for the performance difference.

    Driver support is very important, as I'd hope you would know, and 4.1 and 4.2 would by necessity have different drivers for that same chipset.
    05-29-2013 05:04 PM
  20. slackerjack's Avatar
    Tell you what, you show me some performance numbers that illustrated that pure AOSP 4.2.1 is faster than 4.1.2 and by very consistent 15% across the board...I'll eat my words.

    Lol, I'm pretty sure if that were true, Google would be talking about that and in public, a lot..think of the marketing..."Project butter just got 15% butterier". I sure as hell would be screaming it from the rooftops!

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-29-2013 05:37 PM
  21. android010's Avatar
    I will give my insight on this issue. I have been following the tests videos for a long time. They are fun to watch but in the real life they mean - to me- almost nothing. I came up with this conclusion after switching from the nexus 4 to the galaxy s4 . S4 beats nexus 4 in every test by a big margin. You would think that you will have a much smoother experience on the S4.

    However, after switching I came to experience a LOT of lag and crashes here and there. Not a single day can go without at least three or four crashes and lags. This pissed me off a big deal coming especially coming from the Nexus 4 which I never experienced any lag with.

    This might be the case with my phone only but it is true and sadly painful to spend a lot of money on such a high end phone to end up with stutter and lag and crashes. I hope that samsung figures this out with a software update or something or I might seriously consider going back to the nexus line.
    05-29-2013 05:51 PM
  22. slackerjack's Avatar
    Sounds like you have a bum device. I haven't experienced any of the crashes that you're describing, consider getting it exchanged.

    Posted via Android Central App
    05-29-2013 07:45 PM
  23. snookasnoo's Avatar
    Something real world and repeatable. Most of these mean very little considering you have Sense on one device and Touchwiz on another.
    05-29-2013 08:53 PM
  24. mrbootcrm's Avatar
    Just glanced through and am wondering why it matters? Why performance numbers would ever take priority over user experience is beyond me. Do people need raw computing power on their phones for some purpose I'm unaware of?
    05-29-2013 10:41 PM
  25. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    If you're truly interested in testing metal, and not just trying to make your shiny new S4 look good, load the exact same ROM on each phone and run your tests again. Until then you can't rule out any cheating from either phone/software (not that I believe either is).
    But you're still running benchmark apps through an open source Java VM.

    You can't benchmark Android devices using anything that has a gui. Doing so is the same as running two different versions of the benchmark program.

    But I have a solution for the OP, if he's actually serious that is.

    Compile the "time" binary for ARM to run on a generic Linux 3.0 install. Any Linux guru or Android developer can help.
    Use the same kernel version on each device. Any kernel dev can help.
    Shell into your phone, and use the time binary to see how long the system takes to perform a task that doesn't need the ui. You can do this part yourself.

    Code:
    ./adb shell
    su
    cd /
    /usr/xbin/time cd/system
    The response will be three lines with:

    • real time
    • user time
    • system time

    in seconds. Smaller value means it performed things faster.
    natehoy and Johnly like this.
    05-29-2013 10:46 PM
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