06-19-2013 11:02 AM
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  1. SCjRqrQCnBQ19QoYCtdl's Avatar
    Here is what I think Google can do. They can work with Samsung, HTC, LG, and Motorola(Which they own now) and approach the carriers. They state this is the new standard we like to propose with regards to updates. One of the carriers is going to give in initially. Whether it be ATT, T-Mobile etc. If ATT and Sprint allow faster updates, this may force a company like Verizon to move forward on this.

    What are the carriers going to say if these 4 cell phone makers work together on this? We aren't going to sell your phones anymore? All that threat leaves them with is Pantech, Huawei, and other lower tier manufacturers.

    I think it can be done.
    The problem is that each of those manufacturers has a different build, both hardware and software. The nature of the beast is that samsung has x number of phones, all with different hardware and software, same for each of the other manufacturers. If you are a carrrier, how could you make a blanket agreement to update them all within a generic timeframe?

    Now lets say it is feasible - which is doubtful - are you proposing a consortium of manufacturers and google go to a single carrier and bully that one carrier with threats of withholding product? Don't you think that carrier would have you in court in about a minute?

    That is all assuming that the manufacturers would agree with google's upgrade requirements. Is samsung willing to commit to upgrading every google device, regardless of populartity and special features within the same time frame? Doubt it.

    So I really don't see this as something that google can put in place.

    If you don't think google is struggling to find a soltution, you would be wrong. Look at the nexus devices and the nexus expereince devices - if you want updates above all else, there are your options.
    06-11-2013 12:54 PM
  2. jonathan2677's Avatar
    Lol I didn't even read all of the comments, I didn't even mean to call you out, I was talking about him. And by the way, I do apologize for that comment (to both of you)I was kind of pissed this morning lol. I was trying to say that because a company uses lower quality and crappier hardware on some phones does not change the user interface, or how much Google cares about user experience. I was also stating that apple does the same thing by keeping older I phones cheaper. That is all, my apologies

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    I agree also wanted to say it's good to see some decent people on here willing to say sorry

    sent from the smartphone of 2013 HTC ONE...
    LegalAmerican and ncvikingx97 like this.
    06-11-2013 12:57 PM
  3. freudenfahrer's Avatar
    I'd imagine it's more of an OEM issue than a carrier issue. The carrier only needs adequate time to field test (which I believe they do with iOS, as well?). It's up to the OEMs to get the update skinned and sent to the carriers in a timely fashion.
    06-11-2013 12:57 PM
  4. Farish's Avatar
    The problem is that each of those manufacturers has a different build, both hardware and software. The nature of the beast is that samsung has x number of phones, all with different hardware and software, same for each of the other manufacturers. If you are a carrrier, how could you make a blanket agreement to update them all within a generic timeframe?
    I was talking about Flagship phones like the S4. Also Apple updates all their products at once in most cases. That would have to be up to each OEM how they want to do the updates, but the part is they can do the updates without being held back. If 4.3 was released today, it would be months before it gets pushed out by the carriers. This is the one thing Apple has over the others. The ability to manage updates.

    Now lets say it is feasible - which is doubtful - are you proposing a consortium of manufacturers and google go to a single carrier and bully that one carrier with threats of withholding product? Don't you think that carrier would have you in court in about a minute?
    I dont think they would have to bully anybody. I think one carrier would do it, just so they would advertise that they offer faster better updates than the other carriers. My point of the consortium was so that these manufacturers wouldn't be bullied by the carriers. The iPhone supposedly was going to be on Verizon first, but Verizon demanded too many concessions and Apple moved on to ATT. I think if Sprint or T-Mobile was to offer this, that ATT/Verizon would move quickly to match. Now if ATT did this, Verizon would try to match immediately. It feels like now in most cases if ATT or Verizon makes a move, the other follows.

    That is all assuming that the manufacturers would agree with google's upgrade requirements. Is samsung willing to commit to upgrading every google device, regardless of populartity and special features within the same time frame? Doubt it.

    So I really don't see this as something that google can put in place.

    If you don't think google is struggling to find a soltution, you would be wrong. Look at the nexus devices and the nexus expereince devices - if you want updates above all else, there are your options.
    Not worried about this because honestly some older devices can't run Android 4.0 or greater. I have a first generation Kindle fire that is rooted and I run Android 4.0 and it lags a lot, but it also only has 512 megabytes of ram and that hurts it.

    It is the carriers that make me mad. Same reason why we don't have NFC, carriers. LTE is a better infrastructure than our physical land lines for internet, but they don't want us to have unlimited data anymore. Once again carriers make me mad much more than the manufacturers.

    Google figured out how to update Android without updating Android, like with Hangouts, Music, etc. The only thing I would like Google to require a certain level of quality when it comes to OEM skins. Really if Samsung put some more development into it, Touchwiz for example, wouldn't have been so laggy on release.

    Thank you for keeping this civil, I think you misunderstood my reaction with the point I was trying to make about Google User Experience.
    06-11-2013 01:10 PM
  5. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    On the recall point. Toyota has taken a lot of hits. I agree with that. Part of that is because they got to comfortable also.

    The part I disagree with is the going back to 60,70, 80s standards. GM and Ford both stated that they were copying and looking at how Toyota manufacturer cars and how they could improve upon it. Now they also stated they weren't blinding doing this but using them as a foundation to what they want to build upon. CEO of Ford had flat out stated he admired how Toyota did things and that was the path they were following. GM started to look at how Toyota organized design groups and started copying their manufacturing system.

    This is how they decided to move forward, they looked at Toyota. They even asked for Toyota for advice. Chrysler, I have no clue about and honestly will never taken interest in them to do so.

    The difference is Toyota didn't pull an Apple and sue everybody because of this. They were willing to help. They even stated they didn't want GM to go bankrupt.

    Apple went nuclear.
    That's true. I have owned Volvo, Chevy, Dodge, Chrysler, and Olds. And the car that cost me the most was the Volvo S40 (it was only 6 years old at the time). My family has had similar experiences with Volkswagen, Honda, Mitsubishi, etc... So I do not have an ounce of respect for what some think is Japanese "quality".

    But I do see your point, and I get what you're saying in relation to phones. But I would argue that the American vehicles in the 60's and 70's topped the quality of anything anyone else has put out since. (except obviously the 100k dollar cars). But I don't want to get an infraction for taking this off topic, so I will swiftly return to phones.....

    Apple definitely went nuclear, and the problem is, the things they went nuts over were things they didn't have the moral authority to freak out about. They were built the same way Google was. And Microsoft. They all use each others ideas, and I love that. I want them to use the good from one another and give consumers the best possible experience. Instead, Apple can't humble themselves or admit that they did the same thing. I guess it's okay to ask for that from Xerox and Microsoft in the 70's but it's not okay for anyone to ask them for help in the 00's.
    06-11-2013 01:14 PM
  6. dave25A's Avatar
    Wow.....i didn't realise i had started such a debate with this thread.

    Anyway after watching/hearing about Apple's IOS 7 do you guys still think its worth me getting the S4? i'm thinking of waiting until the new colours are released (i like the look of the brown or blue one). Other people have suggested HTC One or the Sony Experia Z. What are your thoughts and opinions??
    Aquila likes this.
    06-11-2013 01:31 PM
  7. swent1's Avatar
    Wow.....i didn't realise i had started such a debate with this thread.

    Anyway after watching/hearing about Apple's IOS 7 do you guys still think its worth me getting the S4? i'm thinking of waiting until the new colours are released (i like the look of the brown or blue one). Other people have suggested HTC One or the Sony Experia Z. What are your thoughts and opinions??
    Personally, having had iPhone, I think you should get the s4. If you want the openness, customisability, and endless possibilities but the drawback of waiting for updates, a little lag here and there and some other points brought up, then the gs4 is the way to go. I would not trad my s4 for an iPhone anymore. If you want the clean, easy to use, lag free, beautiful ios but very limited customisability and not much openness then go for iPhone. Screen size also comes into play. So its up to you. Really read up on the phone, watch some videos @nd make your decision. Your gonna be happy with either one

    Sent from my SGH-I337M using AC Forums mobile app
    fishepa likes this.
    06-11-2013 01:37 PM
  8. Farish's Avatar
    Wow.....i didn't realise i had started such a debate with this thread.

    Anyway after watching/hearing about Apple's IOS 7 do you guys still think its worth me getting the S4? i'm thinking of waiting until the new colours are released (i like the look of the brown or blue one). Other people have suggested HTC One or the Sony Experia Z. What are your thoughts and opinions??
    I just had to put an email address in my iPhone 5. Now I can say I really really hate their keyboard.
    06-11-2013 01:49 PM
  9. ncvikingx97's Avatar
    To be completely honest( I switched to an android phone not long ago), I love it. I do like the apple app store better, and I also like the hardware(most of it), but I also like the openness, and screen size of android. There are just more features, at least that are useful to me, that outweigh the premium hardware and superior app store on iOS. It really depends what you want. Owning no Mac computers, I never used the integration a lot of iPhone owners like, but if that works for you, so be it, it is your phone. After all, these are phones, one which you will most likely own for 2 years, so make sure you like it!

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    06-11-2013 01:54 PM
  10. fishepa's Avatar
    I just had to put an email address in my iPhone 5. Now I can say I really really hate their keyboard.
    Yep the keyboard is atrocious. If they really were to open up their API for replacement keyboards I would probably switch back to iOS.
    06-11-2013 01:55 PM
  11. JHBThree's Avatar
    Yeah but earlier when you said Apple doesn't claim innovation, that was in response to everyone else talking about the keynote AND what hits the public. I am impressed with that backpedal, but just admit that Apple does claim innovation even when it isn't innovation. It doesn't matter so much what they mask to their consumers, THEY think they're being innovative and they DO pass that sentiment onto the consumer whether they shout that exact phrase or not.
    They're not. Nowhere do they claim things like the multitasking interface, or the control center are innovative.
    06-11-2013 01:55 PM
  12. JHBThree's Avatar
    Yep the keyboard is atrocious. If they really were to open up their API for replacement keyboards I would probably switch back to iOS.
    Ehhh their autocorrect algorithms are still better than anything else out there.
    06-11-2013 01:59 PM
  13. JHBThree's Avatar
    Wow.....i didn't realise i had started such a debate with this thread.

    Anyway after watching/hearing about Apple's IOS 7 do you guys still think its worth me getting the S4? i'm thinking of waiting until the new colours are released (i like the look of the brown or blue one). Other people have suggested HTC One or the Sony Experia Z. What are your thoughts and opinions??
    Get the one. All the benefits of android with many of the benefits of apple.
    jonathan2677 likes this.
    06-11-2013 02:00 PM
  14. LegalAmerican's Avatar
    They're not. Nowhere do they claim things like the multitasking interface, or the control center are innovative.
    Have you read the book about Steve Jobs' by Walter Isaacson? Apple DOES think they're the most innovative company in the history of the world. And they desperately want the consumer to feel the same way. You might not have heard them use those phrases in the keynote on those specific features, but to honestly believe they don't think those things would be to ignore facts. Unless of course Steve Jobs and Jony Ive were liars in their interviews for that book. OR if they were grossly misquoted or what they said was taken out of context.
    06-11-2013 02:01 PM
  15. Aquila's Avatar
    Do we need some epic rap battles of history in here?
    Farish likes this.
    06-11-2013 02:02 PM
  16. Farish's Avatar
    To be completely honest( I switched to an android phone not long ago), I love it. I do like the apple app store better, and I also like the hardware(most of it), but I also like the openness, and screen size of android. There are just more features, at least that are useful to me, that outweigh the premium hardware and superior app store on iOS. It really depends what you want. Owning no Mac computers, I never used the integration a lot of iPhone owners like, but if that works for you, so be it, it is your phone. After all, these are phones, one which you will most likely own for 2 years, so make sure you like it!

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    To me the only thing better about the Apple App store is money to be made.... and the tablet apps, but those both are going to even out soon.
    06-11-2013 02:04 PM
  17. dave25A's Avatar
    Personally, having had iPhone, I think you should get the s4. If you want the openness, customisability, and endless possibilities but the drawback of waiting for updates, a little lag here and there and some other points brought up, then the gs4 is the way to go. I would not trad my s4 for an iPhone anymore. If you want the clean, easy to use, lag free, beautiful ios but very limited customisability and not much openness then go for iPhone. Screen size also comes into play. So its up to you. Really read up on the phone, watch some videos @nd make your decision. Your gonna be happy with either one

    Sent from my SGH-I337M using AC Forums mobile app
    Ok, I have been really thinking and at one point decided to get the S4. I currently have the iPhone 4S, but I want something with more customisation, more options, battery battery life. However I also want a phone that is reliable and will not keep breaking down on me over the next 2 years, I don't mind a little lag hear and there, just so long as it doesn't force close my apps all the while.
    06-11-2013 02:05 PM
  18. Farish's Avatar
    Do we need some epic rap battles of history in here?
    My favorite was Rommey vs Obama with Abe Lincoln coming in and slapping them both.
    06-11-2013 02:05 PM
  19. Farish's Avatar
    Ok, I have been really thinking and at one point decided to get the S4. I currently have the iPhone 4S, but I want something with more customisation, more options, battery battery life. However I also want a phone that is reliable and will not keep breaking down on me over the next 2 years, I don't mind a little lag hear and there, just so long as it doesn't force close my apps all the while.
    My apps never were closed down. My wife went from the 4s to using my iPhone 5, hating it, and now happily owning the HTC One.
    06-11-2013 02:07 PM
  20. Aquila's Avatar
    06-11-2013 02:07 PM
  21. JHBThree's Avatar
    Have you read the book about Steve Jobs' by Walter Isaacson? Apple DOES think they're the most innovative company in the history of the world. And they desperately want the consumer to feel the same way. You might not have heard them use those phrases in the keynote on those specific features, but to honestly believe they don't think those things would be to ignore facts. Unless of course Steve Jobs and Jony Ive were liars in their interviews for that book. OR if they were grossly misquoted or what they said was taken out of context.
    Welcome to marketing 101. In case you hadn't noticed, that book was a marketing vehicle for apple. There is also the fact that apple DOES innovate, and has an extensive history of doing so. I mean, for gods sake, computers as we know them would not exist were it not for them. That's where that attitude comes from.
    06-11-2013 02:14 PM
  22. SCjRqrQCnBQ19QoYCtdl's Avatar
    Ehhh their autocorrect algorithms are still better than anything else out there.
    Really? All I ever heard was people cursing their iOS autocorrect? But I guess you wouldn't hear people bragging about it though. I don't have much recent experience with it to be honest. The only iPhone I ever had was the original. It was the best phone of the day, but trying to remember specifics about it is pretty tough.
    06-11-2013 02:20 PM
  23. JHBThree's Avatar
    Really? All I ever heard was people cursing their iOS autocorrect? But I guess you wouldn't hear people bragging about it though. I don't have much recent experience with it to be honest. The only iPhone I ever had was the original. It was the best phone of the day, but trying to remember specifics about it is pretty tough.
    Yes really. On the iPhone I could look away, type what I wanted, and the phone would correct it to what I actually wanted to say. On another phone it came out as gobbildy-gook. Most people curse it because its set to correct profanity and similar words as a default. The more you use it, though, it learns your style and will stop doing it.
    06-11-2013 02:23 PM
  24. dave25A's Avatar
    My apps never were closed down. My wife went from the 4s to using my iPhone 5, hating it, and now happily owning the HTC One.
    You mean on the S4? I think the only way for me to find out is to plunge into the deep end and get the S4, think I'm just being a little reluctant because Android is new to me.
    06-11-2013 02:24 PM
  25. SCjRqrQCnBQ19QoYCtdl's Avatar
    Welcome to marketing 101. In case you hadn't noticed, that book was a marketing vehicle for apple. There is also the fact that apple DOES innovate, and has an extensive history of doing so. I mean, for gods sake, computers as we know them would not exist were it not for them. That's where that attitude comes from.
    That is a pretty tall claim, unless you mean it in the same way as say "Cars as we know them would not exist if it were not for Ford" Ford did innovate to a remarkable degree, but it isn't like we wouldn't have gotten to a very similar place without them. .

    I mean that is probably true to some extent, kind of a butterfly effect that changes everything in subtle way, but the essence of the thing would be quite similar I think.
    06-11-2013 02:25 PM
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