View Poll Results: Would you have bought the S4 if Samsung didn't include SD card slots?

Voters
64. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    19 29.69%
  • No.

    45 70.31%
07-30-2013 02:25 PM
100 ... 234
tools
  1. skipatrol's Avatar
    Does your media library double in size every year and a half? Was it only 40GB at the beginning of 2011, 20GB in the middle of 2009 and 10GB at the beginning of 2008? I don't think we won't reach spots where the memory sizes won't coincide with media library sizes in the future. We're in one of those spots now and I don't doubt we'll be in that spot again in the future. I just don't think we'll have removable media on our phones when it comes up next.
    I'm not sure what the size of my media library was back in 2009 or even 2 years ago. However, in 2009 I was taking 3 megapixel shots and 320x240 video clips on my Samsung Impression. Times have changed now that I'm taking 13 MP shots and HD video. Plus I like music just as much as the next person and my music library continues to grow. It isn't inconceivable to think that I will be at 256 GB in one year let alone 3 years. One 5 minute video in HD is 500 MB alone. Again with kids it's easy to rack that up.

    Look you have your opinion, I have mine. You can never have to much memory and you will never have too much memory in your phone, hence the need for removable storage.
    STARGATE and monsieurms like this.
    07-29-2013 03:51 PM
  2. garublador's Avatar
    Look you have your opinion, I have mine. You can never have to much memory and you will never have too much memory in your phone, hence the need for removable storage.
    But why does it have to be removable? Again, you're just making arguments for more storage, not for removable storage. Why not just put two eMMC's instead of one and a uSD card slot? Right now the big factor is cost of the eMMC's. That's going down while the performance of them is going up. The cost of the uSD card slot will likely stay the same. It isn't going to get easier to put uSD slots into phones, especially when people are demanding bigger batteries which take up more space. So there will probably be a time when it makes more sense to add another eMMC than it does to add a uSD slot, especially when the only reason people want removable storage is becasue they just want more storage.
    07-29-2013 04:03 PM
  3. skipatrol's Avatar
    But why does it have to be removable? Again, you're just making arguments for more storage, not for removable storage.
    Re-read my posts.
    monsieurms likes this.
    07-29-2013 06:00 PM
  4. STARGATE's Avatar
    But why does it have to be removable? Again, you're just making arguments for more storage, not for removable storage. Why not just put two eMMC's instead of one and a uSD card slot? Right now the big factor is cost of the eMMC's. That's going down while the performance of them is going up. The cost of the uSD card slot will likely stay the same. It isn't going to get easier to put uSD slots into phones, especially when people are demanding bigger batteries which take up more space. So there will probably be a time when it makes more sense to add another eMMC than it does to add a uSD slot, especially when the only reason people want removable storage is becasue they just want more storage.
    Are you been paid by someone or some company to try to change our ways???

    Seems you want to drill into our heads and implant YOUR predictions and preferences! :banghead:

    You need/have to understand there's a lot of people that, for one reason or another, just don't think like you on that and many other subjects.

    Anyway, all's good. Everybody has different needs and wants.

    Sent From a Galaxy S4 Away
    07-30-2013 07:04 AM
  5. garublador's Avatar
    Re-read my posts.
    I did and can't find anything about why the storage needs to be removable. I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

    I made a prediction and others have been saying they don't believe it's true. I've been defending my points. Who's paying you guys to try to change what I think? I'm not forcing anyone to argue with me. If people don't want a debate they don't have to have it, but as long as anyone wants to try to refute my points I have the right to defend those points as long as I follow the site's TOS agreement.
    07-30-2013 09:25 AM
  6. skipatrol's Avatar
    I did and can't find anything about why the storage needs to be removable. I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?
    I'll translate really quickly.

    You - 256gb will be the high end in 3 years.

    Me - that's not enough space, we'll need more hence removable a storage option.

    There you go.

    I also made the point that popping an sd card from an older phone into a new one is more convenient as opposed the alternative. With new plans like edge, it jump people will be getting a new phone every 6 months. Who wants to re download music, video etc every 6 months when you can simply remove the card from your old phone and pop it in the new one.

    Posted via Android Central App
    07-30-2013 10:01 AM
  7. trucky's Avatar
    I did and can't find anything about why the storage needs to be removable. I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

    I made a prediction and others have been saying they don't believe it's true. I've been defending my points. Who's paying you guys to try to change what I think? I'm not forcing anyone to argue with me. If people don't want a debate they don't have to have it, but as long as anyone wants to try to refute my points I have the right to defend those points as long as I follow the site's TOS agreement.
    Well yeah, 50TB of storage would be way cool, but I haven't seen a single phone manufacturer who is offering that yet. Until that happens I guess I'll just stick with my happy little MicroSD storage thingie. We can all dream of what we would like to see, and some of those things will certainly come to fruition. The reality is what my carrier has to offer when it comes time to upgrade. I'll take the best they have at that time.
    07-30-2013 10:03 AM
  8. garublador's Avatar
    I'll translate really quickly.

    You - 256gb will be the high end in 3 years.

    Me - that's not enough space, we'll need more hence removable a storage option.

    There you go.

    I also made the point that popping an sd card from an older phone into a new one is more convenient as opposed the alternative. With new plans like edge, it jump people will be getting a new phone every 6 months. Who wants to re download music, video etc every 6 months when you can simply remove the card from your old phone and pop it in the new one.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Neither you nor trucky answered my question. Re downloading isn't an issue because transfer rates are high enough to make re downloading faster than swapping cards. I can only assume this means that no one can think of a reason that the storage has to be removable. If that's true, then why is everyone saying that they need removable storage?
    07-30-2013 10:30 AM
  9. trucky's Avatar
    I like removable storage because it makes me feel good.
    skipatrol likes this.
    07-30-2013 10:37 AM
  10. skipatrol's Avatar
    Neither you nor trucky answered my question.
    And apparently we never will. Cheers.
    trucky and STARGATE like this.
    07-30-2013 10:53 AM
  11. Haalcyon's Avatar
    I like removable storage because it makes me feel good.
    I think that may be the best, most honest, reason stated for why we need removable storage.

    Sent from me LTE Note 8.0
    Topgonzo and trucky like this.
    07-30-2013 11:23 AM
  12. skipatrol's Avatar
    Re downloading isn't an issue because transfer rates are high enough to make re downloading faster than swapping cards.
    On what planet is downloading 80 gb faster than then 5 seconds it takes to pull a card out of an old phone and into a new one?
    smooth4lyfe, trucky and STARGATE like this.
    07-30-2013 11:26 AM
  13. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    I did and can't find anything about why the storage needs to be removable. I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?
    In this case, the advantage would be if the phone froze or no longer functioned (ex. accidental drop in water), you could easily swap the card out and put it in another phone without having to sync again.

    Removable has many benefits
    When I switched from my Galaxy S3 to my Galaxy S4, I saved all my wallpapers, music, and some app data to my SD Card, and moved it to my S4....everything transferred easily without me having to resync or find which wallpapers I had before
    07-30-2013 11:30 AM
  14. garublador's Avatar
    In this case, the advantage would be if the phone froze or no longer functioned (ex. accidental drop in water), you could easily swap the card out and put it in another phone without having to sync again.
    So the advantage is that it would be slower to get the data to your new phone? That's actually a disadvantage and therefore not an answer to my question.

    On what planet is downloading 80 gb faster than then 5 seconds it takes to pull a card out of an old phone and into a new one?
    Earth, in the future. I'm predicting what will happen in the future. Discussing what's possible now is outside the scope of my prediction. Part of helping you understand my point is going along with a small thought exercise. If you have no interest in understanding my point then why keep replying to me?

    Also, it's still not an answer to my question.
    07-30-2013 11:45 AM
  15. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    So the advantage is that it would be slower to get the data to your new phone? That's actually a disadvantage and therefore not an answer to my question.
    Also, it's still not an answer to my question.
    It only takes like 1 minute to transfer SD Cards...how is that slow?
    Its even faster than if the data was on the cloud....you would have to download the data from the cloud to your phone again, which would take 5 minutes if not more
    Syncing would surely take more than 1 minute depending on the amount of media
    07-30-2013 11:46 AM
  16. garublador's Avatar
    It only takes like 1 minute to transfer SD Cards...how is that slow?
    Its even faster than if the data was on the cloud....you would have to download the data from the cloud to your phone again, which would take 5 minutes if not more
    Syncing would surely take more than 1 minute depending on the amount of media
    You need to re read teh question. One of the assumptions is that swapping a card is slower than transferring the data:

    I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

    By definition, it is slower to swap out cards. Can you answer the question or not?
    07-30-2013 11:52 AM
  17. skipatrol's Avatar
    Earth, in the future. I'm predicting what will happen in the future. Discussing what's possible now is outside the scope of my prediction. Part of helping you understand my point is going along with a small thought exercise. If you have no interest in understanding my point then why keep replying to me?

    Also, it's still not an answer to my question.
    Well thank you Marty McFly. Your question was answered several times. You choose not to see it. Obviously I kept replying to you because I had an interest in seeing your point. - not to argue with you. That interest has now faded as I no longer have interest in your "small thought exercises". Be well.
    STARGATE likes this.
    07-30-2013 11:55 AM
  18. garublador's Avatar
    That interest has now faded as I no longer have interest in your "small thought exercises". Be well.
    You clearly never had any interest in answering it or you would have done it long ago. It's a very simple question that apparently has a very obvious answer but for some reason no one can say it. Under my circumstances outlined above, what is the advantage of the 64GB removable card?
    07-30-2013 12:05 PM
  19. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    You need to re read teh question. One of the assumptions is that swapping a card is slower than transferring the data:

    I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

    By definition, it is slower to swap out cards. Can you answer the question or not?
    Yeah if that was the case then yeah it wouldn't be needed because I could transfer files to the next phone, but more likely this would require an Internet connection and for those without unlimited data it would not be good... Which is another reason why I like SD Cards...how would we be able to do this? The fact that it's removable also makes me feel better.. Like a removable battery, but that's another topic

    Sent from my Galaxy S4 Exynos via Tapatalk 4... I LOVE THIS PHONE
    07-30-2013 12:20 PM
  20. trucky's Avatar
    You clearly never had any interest in answering it or you would have done it long ago. It's a very simple question that apparently has a very obvious answer but for some reason no one can say it. Under my circumstances outlined above, what is the advantage of the 64GB removable card?
    I could, if I had to, eat it and destroy the evidence if they were getting ready to torture me. Chew well of course. Try that with your phone.
    skipatrol likes this.
    07-30-2013 01:01 PM
  21. rushmore's Avatar
    The issue seems straight forward to me. Local storage trumps the cloud for several key reasons.

    1. 100% coverage to get your data, since no need for a signal.

    2. Much more efficient with battery life.

    3. No data caps to worry about.

    Seems no debate to me, why local storage is the best option for users. Cloud still have merits, but local storage wins the battle of what is the most practical and connection worry free.
    monsieurms and STARGATE like this.
    07-30-2013 01:18 PM
  22. garublador's Avatar
    Yeah if that was the case then yeah it wouldn't be needed because I could transfer files to the next phone, but more likely this would require an Internet connection and for those without unlimited data it would not be good
    Good, someone decided to actually try to listen to what I'm saying. We now have reasons why people like removable storage now.

    1. Faster data transfer assuming you're moving files rather than copying them.
    2. The non-volatile nature of them compared to how internal memory is treated.
    3. Cheap, extra storage.

    None of those are being disputed as current advantages.

    I made my thought experiment the way I did to eliminate areas where there is clear, relatively predicable advancement happening. Storage is getting cheaper and data transfer rates are going up. Deciding what to erase and what not to erase in a factory reset can easily be solved.

    I believe 3 will not be anywhere near as big of an issue for phones in a few years. People will always want more storage, but remember my prediction was that those people will be disappointed, not that they will go away. I'm assuming data caps will rise in the future. That means that cloud storage and streaming media will get more popular. That's fewer people who need more storage at a time when we're getting more storage. It's a double whammy. Because storage capacities rise faster than media library sizes, especially considering the popularity of streaming media, we'll eventually get to where most people can fit everything they want on a phone. In other words, the number of people who can fit everything they want in internal storage will rise. All that means the demand for the number 3 benefit will drop.

    2 has not been addressed by Android yet but it's easy enough for them to implement, especially when demand for 3 goes down to the point where manufacturers would rather just have two eMMC than one eMMC and one uSD card slot that has many engineering disadvantages. If the demand for this feature is really there then it will be implemented in the OS as well. It probably makes sense to implement it at the OS level for other, technical reasons eventually (or already, perhaps), too.

    1 will probably be the last to go, but the advantage you get is geared up to drop by an order of magnitude. USB 3.0 is already being put in some mobile chip sets and it has a throughput of about 10 times that of USB 2.0 (and way beyond what uSD is capable of). It will be a while before it's actually faster to transfer data through USB than it is to move it using a card (unless you're copying the data, then it's longer to use uSD), but once it gets to a manageable level the demand for this will drop dramatically. Spending 6 minutes to the hour (transferring though USB 3.0) doesn't sound so bad that you're willing to pay extra to drop it down to 1 minute (swapping cards), especially since there are also disadvantages to removable storage and it's something you don't do that often. There's a design for six sigma name for it I can't come up with right now. There are a couple categories that features fall into. One is a feature that's a must have, which is how you're describing 1. Another is a feature that's better the more of it there is (storage, CPU power). Another is one that's cool to have, but not a deal breaker. I'm saying 1 will go from the first category to the third as transfer rates increase.

    If you look at computing history you'll see the exact same thing happened with PC's. We went from almost exclusively removable storage, to removable storage being good for the same reasons we gave above, to only being useful because it's mobile for most people. With mobile computing, the mobile part is built in so that isn't an advantage anymore. There were people that said all the exact same things I read here about uSD cards about floppy discs when the iMac came out and didn't have a floppy drive. It was about 3 years later that people stopped "needing" floppy drives in their computers.

    If it were trivial to implement I might agree that it will stick around because there are advantages but it is not. It takes up physical space, it now requires additional software development and support and people are still having problems with it. The only advantage the design team sees in the uSD slot is a lower BOM cost. Once that advantage goes away then they'll look for reasons not to include them. Plus, you guys have seen how many threads there are about SD problems. I haven't owned an Android phone that didn't have SD problems or one that did have internal memory problems. The advantages to internal memory will eventually outweigh the advantages and demand so it's a feature that will be dropped. There will always be people who demand more storage (some weird misconception that I'm arguing that those people won't exist anymore somehow appeared here, but if that were the case who would be the "disappointed" ones in my prediction?), but once that group is so small that they have almost no buying power the OEM's won't listen to them, especially if listening to them costs more money than it makes.

    Think of the decision on whether or not to include removable memory by an OEM in a phone as a scale, with "include it" on one side and "not include" it on the other. People are stacking reasons on the "not include" it side and removing reasons from the "include it" side. While the "include it" side may be lower now, and remain that way for a couple years, unless someone can find reasons to add to the "include it" side (which no one has been able to do yet), the scale will eventually tip the other way.
    07-30-2013 01:44 PM
  23. garublador's Avatar
    I could, if I had to, eat it and destroy the evidence if they were getting ready to torture me. Chew well of course. Try that with your phone.
    Connect a small charge to be triggered by an unused GPIO (or one connected to a feature you don't use) and stick it to your eMMC. Trigger it from an app on your phone. It's quicker than taking the back off, getting at the uSD slot, removing the card and chewing it up.
    07-30-2013 01:48 PM
  24. Haalcyon's Avatar
    Good, someone decided to actually try to listen to what I'm saying. We now have reasons why people like removable storage now.

    1. Faster data transfer assuming you're moving files rather than copying them.
    2. The non-volatile nature of them compared to how internal memory is treated.
    3. Cheap, extra storage.

    None of those are being disputed as current advantages.

    I made my thought experiment the way I did to eliminate areas where there is clear, relatively predicable advancement happening. Storage is getting cheaper and data transfer rates are going up. Deciding what to erase and what not to erase in a factory reset can easily be solved.

    I believe 3 will not be anywhere near as big of an issue for phones in a few years. People will always want more storage, but remember my prediction was that those people will be disappointed, not that they will go away. I'm assuming data caps will rise in the future. That means that cloud storage and streaming media will get more popular. That's fewer people who need more storage at a time when we're getting more storage. It's a double whammy. Because storage capacities rise faster than media library sizes, especially considering the popularity of streaming media, we'll eventually get to where most people can fit everything they want on a phone. In other words, the number of people who can fit everything they want in internal storage will rise. All that means the demand for the number 3 benefit will drop.

    2 has not been addressed by Android yet but it's easy enough for them to implement, especially when demand for 3 goes down to the point where manufacturers would rather just have two eMMC than one eMMC and one uSD card slot that has many engineering disadvantages. If the demand for this feature is really there then it will be implemented in the OS as well. It probably makes sense to implement it at the OS level for other, technical reasons eventually (or already, perhaps), too.

    1 will probably be the last to go, but the advantage you get is geared up to drop by an order of magnitude. USB 3.0 is already being put in some mobile chip sets and it has a throughput of about 10 times that of USB 2.0 (and way beyond what uSD is capable of). It will be a while before it's actually faster to transfer data through USB than it is to move it using a card (unless you're copying the data, then it's longer to use uSD), but once it gets to a manageable level the demand for this will drop dramatically. Spending 6 minutes to the hour (transferring though USB 3.0) doesn't sound so bad that you're willing to pay extra to drop it down to 1 minute (swapping cards), especially since there are also disadvantages to removable storage and it's something you don't do that often. There's a design for six sigma name for it I can't come up with right now. There are a couple categories that features fall into. One is a feature that's a must have, which is how you're describing 1. Another is a feature that's better the more of it there is (storage, CPU power). Another is one that's cool to have, but not a deal breaker. I'm saying 1 will go from the first category to the third as transfer rates increase.

    If you look at computing history you'll see the exact same thing happened with PC's. We went from almost exclusively removable storage, to removable storage being good for the same reasons we gave above, to only being useful because it's mobile for most people. With mobile computing, the mobile part is built in so that isn't an advantage anymore. There were people that said all the exact same things I read here about uSD cards about floppy discs when the iMac came out and didn't have a floppy drive. It was about 3 years later that people stopped "needing" floppy drives in their computers.

    If it were trivial to implement I might agree that it will stick around because there are advantages but it is not. It takes up physical space, it now requires additional software development and support and people are still having problems with it. The only advantage the design team sees in the uSD slot is a lower BOM cost. Once that advantage goes away then they'll look for reasons not to include them. Plus, you guys have seen how many threads there are about SD problems. I haven't owned an Android phone that didn't have SD problems or one that did have internal memory problems. The advantages to internal memory will eventually outweigh the advantages and demand so it's a feature that will be dropped. There will always be people who demand more storage (some weird misconception that I'm arguing that those people won't exist anymore somehow appeared here, but if that were the case who would be the "disappointed" ones in my prediction?), but once that group is so small that they have almost no buying power the OEM's won't listen to them, especially if listening to them costs more money than it makes.

    Think of the decision on whether or not to include removable memory by an OEM in a phone as a scale, with "include it" on one side and "not include" it on the other. People are stacking reasons on the "not include" it side and removing reasons from the "include it" side. While the "include it" side may be lower now, and remain that way for a couple years, unless someone can find reasons to add to the "include it" side (which no one has been able to do yet), the scale will eventually tip the other way.
    Well, now that you written your Master's thesis what's next?

    Sent from my Element Eclipsed S4
    07-30-2013 02:20 PM
  25. trucky's Avatar
    Too dang much to read. And so not interesting. Sheesh. Go build it and sell it to Verizon, then I might look at it. Or else I might not.
    07-30-2013 02:25 PM
100 ... 234

Similar Threads

  1. best screen protector? which do you prefer?
    By yellow slider in forum HTC One M7
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 11-01-2013, 08:06 AM
  2. Moto X and Droid Ultra/Maxx share the same processor.
    By karn101 in forum Moto X (2013)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 07-29-2013, 08:46 AM
  3. Verizon still get the Moto X with the new DROID line?
    By motorcycle_monkey in forum Moto X (2013)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-25-2013, 07:23 PM
  4. Search App? The native phone search is not that great
    By MrNapa in forum Samsung Galaxy S4 Active
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-23-2013, 06:59 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-23-2013, 06:32 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD