Would you have bought the S4 if Samsung didn't include SD card slots?

Would you have bought the S4 if Samsung didn't include SD card slots?


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skipatrol

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I did and can't find anything about why the storage needs to be removable. I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

I'll translate really quickly.

You - 256gb will be the high end in 3 years.

Me - that's not enough space, we'll need more hence removable a storage option.

There you go.

I also made the point that popping an sd card from an older phone into a new one is more convenient as opposed the alternative. With new plans like edge, it jump people will be getting a new phone every 6 months. Who wants to re download music, video etc every 6 months when you can simply remove the card from your old phone and pop it in the new one.

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trucky

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I did and can't find anything about why the storage needs to be removable. I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

I made a prediction and others have been saying they don't believe it's true. I've been defending my points. Who's paying you guys to try to change what I think? I'm not forcing anyone to argue with me. If people don't want a debate they don't have to have it, but as long as anyone wants to try to refute my points I have the right to defend those points as long as I follow the site's TOS agreement.

Well yeah, 50TB of storage would be way cool, but I haven't seen a single phone manufacturer who is offering that yet. Until that happens I guess I'll just stick with my happy little MicroSD storage thingie. We can all dream of what we would like to see, and some of those things will certainly come to fruition. The reality is what my carrier has to offer when it comes time to upgrade. I'll take the best they have at that time.
 

garublador

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I'll translate really quickly.

You - 256gb will be the high end in 3 years.

Me - that's not enough space, we'll need more hence removable a storage option.

There you go.

I also made the point that popping an sd card from an older phone into a new one is more convenient as opposed the alternative. With new plans like edge, it jump people will be getting a new phone every 6 months. Who wants to re download music, video etc every 6 months when you can simply remove the card from your old phone and pop it in the new one.

Posted via Android Central App
Neither you nor trucky answered my question. Re downloading isn't an issue because transfer rates are high enough to make re downloading faster than swapping cards. I can only assume this means that no one can think of a reason that the storage has to be removable. If that's true, then why is everyone saying that they need removable storage?
 

smooth4lyfe

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I did and can't find anything about why the storage needs to be removable. I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

In this case, the advantage would be if the phone froze or no longer functioned (ex. accidental drop in water), you could easily swap the card out and put it in another phone without having to sync again.

Removable has many benefits
When I switched from my Galaxy S3 to my Galaxy S4, I saved all my wallpapers, music, and some app data to my SD Card, and moved it to my S4....everything transferred easily without me having to resync or find which wallpapers I had before
 

garublador

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In this case, the advantage would be if the phone froze or no longer functioned (ex. accidental drop in water), you could easily swap the card out and put it in another phone without having to sync again.
So the advantage is that it would be slower to get the data to your new phone? That's actually a disadvantage and therefore not an answer to my question.

On what planet is downloading 80 gb faster than then 5 seconds it takes to pull a card out of an old phone and into a new one?
Earth, in the future. I'm predicting what will happen in the future. Discussing what's possible now is outside the scope of my prediction. Part of helping you understand my point is going along with a small thought exercise. If you have no interest in understanding my point then why keep replying to me?

Also, it's still not an answer to my question.
 

smooth4lyfe

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So the advantage is that it would be slower to get the data to your new phone? That's actually a disadvantage and therefore not an answer to my question.
Also, it's still not an answer to my question.

It only takes like 1 minute to transfer SD Cards...how is that slow?
Its even faster than if the data was on the cloud....you would have to download the data from the cloud to your phone again, which would take 5 minutes if not more
Syncing would surely take more than 1 minute depending on the amount of media
 

garublador

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It only takes like 1 minute to transfer SD Cards...how is that slow?
Its even faster than if the data was on the cloud....you would have to download the data from the cloud to your phone again, which would take 5 minutes if not more
Syncing would surely take more than 1 minute depending on the amount of media
You need to re read teh question. One of the assumptions is that swapping a card is slower than transferring the data:

I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

By definition, it is slower to swap out cards. Can you answer the question or not?
 

skipatrol

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Earth, in the future. I'm predicting what will happen in the future. Discussing what's possible now is outside the scope of my prediction. Part of helping you understand my point is going along with a small thought exercise. If you have no interest in understanding my point then why keep replying to me?

Also, it's still not an answer to my question.

Well thank you Marty McFly. Your question was answered several times. You choose not to see it. Obviously I kept replying to you because I had an interest in seeing your point. - not to argue with you. That interest has now faded as I no longer have interest in your "small thought exercises". Be well.
 

garublador

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That interest has now faded as I no longer have interest in your "small thought exercises". Be well.
You clearly never had any interest in answering it or you would have done it long ago. It's a very simple question that apparently has a very obvious answer but for some reason no one can say it. Under my circumstances outlined above, what is the advantage of the 64GB removable card?
 

smooth4lyfe

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You need to re read teh question. One of the assumptions is that swapping a card is slower than transferring the data:

I'll ask this way, say you had 50TB of storage on your phone. You have the ability to transfer files faster than you can swap out cards. All but 10GB would be safe during a factory reset. What would be the advantage of a removable 64GB uSD card?

By definition, it is slower to swap out cards. Can you answer the question or not?

Yeah if that was the case then yeah it wouldn't be needed because I could transfer files to the next phone, but more likely this would require an Internet connection and for those without unlimited data it would not be good... Which is another reason why I like SD Cards...how would we be able to do this? The fact that it's removable also makes me feel better.. Like a removable battery, but that's another topic

Sent from my Galaxy S4 Exynos via Tapatalk 4... I LOVE THIS PHONE
 

trucky

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You clearly never had any interest in answering it or you would have done it long ago. It's a very simple question that apparently has a very obvious answer but for some reason no one can say it. Under my circumstances outlined above, what is the advantage of the 64GB removable card?

I could, if I had to, eat it and destroy the evidence if they were getting ready to torture me. Chew well of course. Try that with your phone.
 

rushmore

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The issue seems straight forward to me. Local storage trumps the cloud for several key reasons.

1. 100% coverage to get your data, since no need for a signal.

2. Much more efficient with battery life.

3. No data caps to worry about.

Seems no debate to me, why local storage is the best option for users. Cloud still have merits, but local storage wins the battle of what is the most practical and connection worry free.
 

garublador

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Yeah if that was the case then yeah it wouldn't be needed because I could transfer files to the next phone, but more likely this would require an Internet connection and for those without unlimited data it would not be good
Good, someone decided to actually try to listen to what I'm saying. We now have reasons why people like removable storage now.

1. Faster data transfer assuming you're moving files rather than copying them.
2. The non-volatile nature of them compared to how internal memory is treated.
3. Cheap, extra storage.

None of those are being disputed as current advantages.

I made my thought experiment the way I did to eliminate areas where there is clear, relatively predicable advancement happening. Storage is getting cheaper and data transfer rates are going up. Deciding what to erase and what not to erase in a factory reset can easily be solved.

I believe 3 will not be anywhere near as big of an issue for phones in a few years. People will always want more storage, but remember my prediction was that those people will be disappointed, not that they will go away. I'm assuming data caps will rise in the future. That means that cloud storage and streaming media will get more popular. That's fewer people who need more storage at a time when we're getting more storage. It's a double whammy. Because storage capacities rise faster than media library sizes, especially considering the popularity of streaming media, we'll eventually get to where most people can fit everything they want on a phone. In other words, the number of people who can fit everything they want in internal storage will rise. All that means the demand for the number 3 benefit will drop.

2 has not been addressed by Android yet but it's easy enough for them to implement, especially when demand for 3 goes down to the point where manufacturers would rather just have two eMMC than one eMMC and one uSD card slot that has many engineering disadvantages. If the demand for this feature is really there then it will be implemented in the OS as well. It probably makes sense to implement it at the OS level for other, technical reasons eventually (or already, perhaps), too.

1 will probably be the last to go, but the advantage you get is geared up to drop by an order of magnitude. USB 3.0 is already being put in some mobile chip sets and it has a throughput of about 10 times that of USB 2.0 (and way beyond what uSD is capable of). It will be a while before it's actually faster to transfer data through USB than it is to move it using a card (unless you're copying the data, then it's longer to use uSD), but once it gets to a manageable level the demand for this will drop dramatically. Spending 6 minutes to the hour (transferring though USB 3.0) doesn't sound so bad that you're willing to pay extra to drop it down to 1 minute (swapping cards), especially since there are also disadvantages to removable storage and it's something you don't do that often. There's a design for six sigma name for it I can't come up with right now. There are a couple categories that features fall into. One is a feature that's a must have, which is how you're describing 1. Another is a feature that's better the more of it there is (storage, CPU power). Another is one that's cool to have, but not a deal breaker. I'm saying 1 will go from the first category to the third as transfer rates increase.

If you look at computing history you'll see the exact same thing happened with PC's. We went from almost exclusively removable storage, to removable storage being good for the same reasons we gave above, to only being useful because it's mobile for most people. With mobile computing, the mobile part is built in so that isn't an advantage anymore. There were people that said all the exact same things I read here about uSD cards about floppy discs when the iMac came out and didn't have a floppy drive. It was about 3 years later that people stopped "needing" floppy drives in their computers.

If it were trivial to implement I might agree that it will stick around because there are advantages but it is not. It takes up physical space, it now requires additional software development and support and people are still having problems with it. The only advantage the design team sees in the uSD slot is a lower BOM cost. Once that advantage goes away then they'll look for reasons not to include them. Plus, you guys have seen how many threads there are about SD problems. I haven't owned an Android phone that didn't have SD problems or one that did have internal memory problems. The advantages to internal memory will eventually outweigh the advantages and demand so it's a feature that will be dropped. There will always be people who demand more storage (some weird misconception that I'm arguing that those people won't exist anymore somehow appeared here, but if that were the case who would be the "disappointed" ones in my prediction?), but once that group is so small that they have almost no buying power the OEM's won't listen to them, especially if listening to them costs more money than it makes.

Think of the decision on whether or not to include removable memory by an OEM in a phone as a scale, with "include it" on one side and "not include" it on the other. People are stacking reasons on the "not include" it side and removing reasons from the "include it" side. While the "include it" side may be lower now, and remain that way for a couple years, unless someone can find reasons to add to the "include it" side (which no one has been able to do yet), the scale will eventually tip the other way.
 

garublador

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I could, if I had to, eat it and destroy the evidence if they were getting ready to torture me. Chew well of course. Try that with your phone.
Connect a small charge to be triggered by an unused GPIO (or one connected to a feature you don't use) and stick it to your eMMC. Trigger it from an app on your phone. It's quicker than taking the back off, getting at the uSD slot, removing the card and chewing it up.
 

Haalcyon

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Good, someone decided to actually try to listen to what I'm saying. We now have reasons why people like removable storage now.

1. Faster data transfer assuming you're moving files rather than copying them.
2. The non-volatile nature of them compared to how internal memory is treated.
3. Cheap, extra storage.

None of those are being disputed as current advantages.

I made my thought experiment the way I did to eliminate areas where there is clear, relatively predicable advancement happening. Storage is getting cheaper and data transfer rates are going up. Deciding what to erase and what not to erase in a factory reset can easily be solved.

I believe 3 will not be anywhere near as big of an issue for phones in a few years. People will always want more storage, but remember my prediction was that those people will be disappointed, not that they will go away. I'm assuming data caps will rise in the future. That means that cloud storage and streaming media will get more popular. That's fewer people who need more storage at a time when we're getting more storage. It's a double whammy. Because storage capacities rise faster than media library sizes, especially considering the popularity of streaming media, we'll eventually get to where most people can fit everything they want on a phone. In other words, the number of people who can fit everything they want in internal storage will rise. All that means the demand for the number 3 benefit will drop.

2 has not been addressed by Android yet but it's easy enough for them to implement, especially when demand for 3 goes down to the point where manufacturers would rather just have two eMMC than one eMMC and one uSD card slot that has many engineering disadvantages. If the demand for this feature is really there then it will be implemented in the OS as well. It probably makes sense to implement it at the OS level for other, technical reasons eventually (or already, perhaps), too.

1 will probably be the last to go, but the advantage you get is geared up to drop by an order of magnitude. USB 3.0 is already being put in some mobile chip sets and it has a throughput of about 10 times that of USB 2.0 (and way beyond what uSD is capable of). It will be a while before it's actually faster to transfer data through USB than it is to move it using a card (unless you're copying the data, then it's longer to use uSD), but once it gets to a manageable level the demand for this will drop dramatically. Spending 6 minutes to the hour (transferring though USB 3.0) doesn't sound so bad that you're willing to pay extra to drop it down to 1 minute (swapping cards), especially since there are also disadvantages to removable storage and it's something you don't do that often. There's a design for six sigma name for it I can't come up with right now. There are a couple categories that features fall into. One is a feature that's a must have, which is how you're describing 1. Another is a feature that's better the more of it there is (storage, CPU power). Another is one that's cool to have, but not a deal breaker. I'm saying 1 will go from the first category to the third as transfer rates increase.

If you look at computing history you'll see the exact same thing happened with PC's. We went from almost exclusively removable storage, to removable storage being good for the same reasons we gave above, to only being useful because it's mobile for most people. With mobile computing, the mobile part is built in so that isn't an advantage anymore. There were people that said all the exact same things I read here about uSD cards about floppy discs when the iMac came out and didn't have a floppy drive. It was about 3 years later that people stopped "needing" floppy drives in their computers.

If it were trivial to implement I might agree that it will stick around because there are advantages but it is not. It takes up physical space, it now requires additional software development and support and people are still having problems with it. The only advantage the design team sees in the uSD slot is a lower BOM cost. Once that advantage goes away then they'll look for reasons not to include them. Plus, you guys have seen how many threads there are about SD problems. I haven't owned an Android phone that didn't have SD problems or one that did have internal memory problems. The advantages to internal memory will eventually outweigh the advantages and demand so it's a feature that will be dropped. There will always be people who demand more storage (some weird misconception that I'm arguing that those people won't exist anymore somehow appeared here, but if that were the case who would be the "disappointed" ones in my prediction?), but once that group is so small that they have almost no buying power the OEM's won't listen to them, especially if listening to them costs more money than it makes.

Think of the decision on whether or not to include removable memory by an OEM in a phone as a scale, with "include it" on one side and "not include" it on the other. People are stacking reasons on the "not include" it side and removing reasons from the "include it" side. While the "include it" side may be lower now, and remain that way for a couple years, unless someone can find reasons to add to the "include it" side (which no one has been able to do yet), the scale will eventually tip the other way.

Well, now that you written your Master's thesis what's next?

Sent from my Element Eclipsed S4
 

trucky

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Too dang much to read. And so not interesting. Sheesh. Go build it and sell it to Verizon, then I might look at it. Or else I might not.