03-21-2015 12:46 AM
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  1. Haalcyon's Avatar
    Battery issue will not arise in short experience, it's more of a problem when the sealed one lose its capacity, a year down the road.
    IME its quite a bit more than one year. The only phone I've had long enough to notice battery degradation was my iPhone 4. ... I had the battery replaced in the mall, while I waited, for $90.

    🔋from the Note 4✒ 📒
    03-05-2015 06:16 AM
  2. Aquila's Avatar
    You keep saying this "if they gain 3 and lose 1 thing...." No one "doesn't" buy the phone because it has removable batteries and SD cards. You are confusing causation and gains caused by other issues and setting up an "either-or" straw man that doesn't exactly exist. No one walks into a store and goes "Wow. They got rid of removable batteries! I never wanted one, but I'll take 6 now for the whole family."

    If they gain customers, it sure won't be BECAUSE of eliminating what are deal-breaker features for many. They might gain in spite of that, but that's not a causal link. It's not an either-or situation. The actual reality here, contrasted with the causal link you keep implying, is is that they could do both. They could gain customers with other, new features AND keep all the ones they have by not getting rid of deal-breaker features. It's not an either-or. As the phone market becomes more and more competitive, every edge counts. You shouldn't be throwing any away. And if I decide Samsung in fact doesn't care about me, well, I won't be caring about them, either.
    This argument is too general. There are 4 things that Samsung was "doing wrong" in my opinion, according to what I want to see in devices, and this eliminated two of them. The other two (physical button and software) will still prevent me from buying a Samsung phone, but this decision made me regain some respect for their design philosophy.

    Removable battery is an engineering and resource mistake - removing this "option" opens the door to many more benefits and goes one step further to eliminating the "drain it all the way" mistake that many users make more often when they can just hot swap - an action alone which wreaks havoc on Android's ability to anticipate usage and manage background tasks. I understand that some people want this option and have no issue with that - for me, it is smarter to close this thing off.

    MicroSD card slot is an engineering and resource mistake that allows for security and performance risks not otherwise introduced. Every second spent coding for this option, not to mention the materials and engineering compromises necessary to have it present, falls into the opportunity cost category - time and money not spent on improving the device or software or health of the company (which allows for it to become more creative, etc).

    Physical home buttons, etc require materials, engineering compromises, consume physical space and require software resources to enable them. This "feature" was made obsolete in 2011 and seeing devices still released with it is somewhat disappointing. Again, I realize some users prefer this - I just simply disagree. It speaks to a design that detracts from design evolution and utility, rather than helping move the cause forward.

    Software - Samsung's TouchWiz comes rich with many, many features. None of them are quite as useful as what Moto brings and in fact many of them are system resource intensive messes with very little value add to most users. Throw everything on the wall and see what sticks is a poor substitute for understanding your market and designing software that meets their needs and raises their expectations of how their devices should/could interact with them. Android as a system is moving towards a concept that resembles getting the software out of the way of content, people, etc. Samsung is one of the biggest offenders when it comes to resisting the more modern perspectives and all three of the above are physical manifestations of this apparent belligerence.

    Now, obviously "Samsung" doesn't have an attitude, it responds to market forces in whatever way it believes it can best capitalize - so in fact, Samsung's failings of aspiration are more in fact reflections of the poor atmosphere of their consumer base - many of which were making decisions based on very old software versions running on very cheap (in price and quality) devices. These signals must have been hard to overcome, but I for one am glad that Samsung has taken this tiny step towards rejoining the present course of the platform.
    03-05-2015 06:41 AM
  3. Haalcyon's Avatar
    I think of it like this: the design and build of the Note 4/Edge is great, aesthetically pleasing, and yet, retains the removables. I don't know why Samsung could not have used this design language on a smaller scale for the S6. For some reason, they really felt like they needed to completely start over and make an iPhone-esk design and I can only imagine that's because of how phenomenonally the iPhone sales are. They want a piece of that to gain market share and this is the only way they thought they could get it. Again, it'll be interesting to see if this method pays off for them.

    ♻from the Note 4✒ 📶
    berdinkerdickle and Scott7217 like this.
    03-05-2015 07:26 AM
  4. Carrtman's Avatar
    The consent I'm starting to get from some replies is 2 fold:

    1. Some of the "I don't care people" are using Nexus, Motorola etc. nothing wrong with that mind you but I stand to question why people who are obviously happy with sealed batteries and no sd card can't understand why Samsung customers want those features? If I wouldn't care about stuff like physical home buttons, at least capacitive ones and removable battery or micro sd I would have bought one of the many customer unfriendly phones I.e Nexus, Motorola...

    Samsung is one of the biggest offenders when it comes to resisting the more modern perspectives and all three of the above are physical manifestations of this apparent belligerence.
    Wow being customer friendly friendly and not creating a toy is seen as an offense lol..wonder if some people understand the power of choice? TW obviously has it's shortcomings but it also has benefits like multi-window which as of now is not present on stock Android.

    If modern design means releasing crappy, overpriced toys then I'm glad to refuse to even look at what's modern but I guess some users would prefer if all Android devices were the same which would make it basically as closed as Apple...

    2. The s5 didn't sell because it wasn't a large enough upgrade, period. Going from full hd to full hd is not an upgrade, sd 800 to sd 801 is a marginal at best upgrade...so while the design wasn't great the Note 4, galaxy alpha showed that Samsung can release premium quality and still keep all the features their customers seem to love. I couldn't care less if customers from other brands like or hate them..Samsung should care about the stuff they are doing best and improve upon it if they want to capture the unsatisfied Apple user offer stuff that Apple doesn't have and don't **** of your existing customer base because it's harder to re-gain an once lost lots customer than to keep them.

    I'm just shocked that some people are acting like choice haters in the name of "progression, design" this arrogant line of thinking is one of the reasons why I'd never consider some brands even if I didn't have to pay for them. Especially the Nexus comes to mind.
    03-05-2015 08:03 AM
  5. Haalcyon's Avatar
    The consent I'm starting to get from some replies is 2 fold:

    1. Some of the "I don't care people" are using Nexus, Motorola etc. nothing wrong with that mind you but I stand to question why people who are obviously happy with sealed batteries and no sd card can't understand why Samsung customers want those features? If I wouldn't care about stuff like physical home buttons, at least capacitive ones and removable battery or micro sd I would have bought one of the many customer unfriendly phones I.e Nexus, Motorola...



    Wow being customer friendly friendly and not creating a toy is seen as an offense lol..wonder if some people understand the power of choice? TW obviously has it's shortcomings but it also has benefits like multi-window which as of now is not present on stock Android.

    If modern design means releasing crappy, overpriced toys then I'm glad to refuse to even look at what's modern but I guess some users would prefer if all Android devices were the same which would make it basically as closed as Apple...

    2. The s5 didn't sell because it wasn't a large enough upgrade, period. Going from full hd to full hd is not an upgrade, sd 800 to sd 801 is a marginal at best upgrade...so while the design wasn't great the Note 4, galaxy alpha showed that Samsung can release premium quality and still keep all the features their customers seem to love. I couldn't care less if customers from other brands like or hate them..Samsung should care about the stuff they are doing best and improve upon it if they want to capture the unsatisfied Apple user offer stuff that Apple doesn't have and don't **** of your existing customer base because it's harder to re-gain an once lost lots customer than to keep them.

    I'm just shocked that some people are acting like choice haters in the name of "progression, design" this arrogant line of thinking is one of the reasons why I'd never consider some brands even if I didn't have to pay for them.
    But the decision had been made. The only thing that is going to affect Samsung's future thinking is if the S6 doesn't sell well and it is going to sell very well because it's what the MAJORITY of people want. There simply is no denying that logic. I understand that a minority of folks are unhappy and need to vent. That's human nature. ... but it doesn't change reality.

    ♻from the Note 4✒ 📶
    03-05-2015 08:09 AM
  6. mrsmumbles's Avatar
    I've been a iPhone user for years and currently with a iPhone 6 so I'm used to not having a removable battery and SD card. That being said when I was looking to make the move to Android expandable memory was one of the reasons. But I also don't see it as a deal breaker since they raised the internal storage. 32gb is enough..im not one of those ppl that keeps every single song or video I ever had on my phone. I dont know who these ppl are that needs 128gb of storage on a phone.

    As far as no removable battery I have a charger at work and in my car so I dont need to carry a spare and swap out. Even if I didnt have chargers available I still wouldn't carry spares.I think most of the general public are the same way. The phone geeks in these types of forums make up a very small percentage of phone purchases. Samsung gave the ppl what they wanted with the new design and a more premium look and feel. The S6 will sell like crazy.
    People always say this but I think a majority of phone buyers do know what they want. Plus, for the rest of the world microsd continues to be essential - it's not going to disappear and it shouldn't. You may not use it but plenty of us do want it and use it.
    monsieurms and KJ78 like this.
    03-05-2015 08:17 AM
  7. Carrtman's Avatar
    But the decision had been made. The only thing that is going to affect Samsung's future thinking is if the S6 doesn't sell well and it is going to sell very well because it's what the MAJORITY of people want. There simply is no denying that logic. I understand that a minority of folks are unhappy and need to vent. That's human nature. ... but it doesn't change reality.

    ♻from the Note 4✒ 📶
    Oh the memories, kept hearing the same about the s5 and btw. all this minority vs majority line of thinking doesn't help either because nobody can really say which camp is which. But judging by the backslash so far and the lame almost iq insulting excuses from Samsung I've got a pretty good idea on what to expect.
    KJ78 likes this.
    03-05-2015 08:20 AM
  8. npaladin-2000's Avatar
    You keep saying this "if they gain 3 and lose 1 thing...." No one "doesn't" buy the phone because it has removable batteries and SD cards. You are confusing causation and gains caused by other issues and setting up an "either-or" straw man that doesn't exactly exist. No one walks into a store and goes "Wow. They got rid of removable batteries! Way to go! I never wanted a Sammie phone, but now that the removable batteries are gone, I'll take 6 now for the whole family."

    If they gain customers, it sure won't be BECAUSE of eliminating what are deal-breaker features for many. They might gain in spite of that, but that's not a causal link. It's not an either-or situation. The actual reality here, contrasted with the causal link you keep implying, is is that they could do both. They could gain customers with other, new features AND keep all the ones they have by not getting rid of deal-breaker features. It's not an either-or. As the phone market becomes more and more competitive, every edge counts. You shouldn't be throwing any customers away. And if I decide Samsung in fact doesn't care about me, well, I won't be caring about them, either.
    They could if their market research showed that enough of the market cared about those features for them to invest the time and money and resources to implement them. Clearly that is not the case, their research must have showed that there was more of a benefit to adding things like MST and premium design, and that a removable battery and microSD would not generate enough additional sales to justify the R&D and implementation costs.

    Bottom line, it would have cost them too much to please you, your money isn't worth the effort involved. That's harsh, I know, but that's how it ended up. Good news is HTC is willing to give you removable storage, and Saygus and LG are willing to give you both.
    03-05-2015 08:28 AM
  9. Premium1's Avatar
    Lets talk about the MicroSD first

    Like everyone I love to have a phone with MicroSD feature. It makes it easier to swap between my phones as well as to transfer data to my PC. I myself won't mind spending lots of money on a fast microSD card but I have yet to find one that is both FAST and LARGE in capacity. On my Note 4, i'm using Sandisk Extreme and my fastest bench mark test was 70mb Read and 39 Write. Now these numbers are decent but In my opinion MicroSD cards are not keeping up with the speed of phones these days which is cause bottleneck issue and is one of the reasons behind all the lag that people complain about.

    Now with the Universal Flash Storage (UFS) 2.0 which has 350Mb/s Read and 150Mb/s, you can rest assure it will not cause any lag from viewing pictures and videos as well as swapping from app to app. Not to mention you can always plug in your OTG cable with flash usb and do all your backups there titanium backup or simply copying your data there which is what i'm doing currently.

    Attachment 165468
    Samsung has ultra fast 128GB UFS 2.0 ready for smartphones


    As for the Battery,

    While having a removable battery is a plus, from my personal experience I have yet to use it when I want too. I have extra battery and charger for my Note 4 but i always find my self plugging it in rather than taking the cover off and restart my phone. Now with all the new features to charge wirelessily and fastcharge 2.0, I don't think anyone would have any issue. Iphone users as well as other brands from nexus 5,6 and htc didn't complain about their battery then why should we when are ahead of the game in many ways?

    With all the features we are getting on the GS6, I think i can easily sacrifice on these too.
    I agree. Now that being said, I can see the rare case of people putting every possible thing in their life on their phone and yelling "128gb isn't enough" yet 99% of people will be fine with that or an even smaller storage version. The only thing that really concerns me is the battery. Not that its not removable, but its on the low side. Now I am sure samsung tested it, but hope it doesn't end up like iPhone with so-so battery life. I am going to wait and see what reviewers say about battery life, but other than that it looks like a great phone.
    Not to mention, those complaining are a very small minority, just like those who root and rom. If the lack of removable storage and battery were such huge concerns, people would be buying and continue buying iPhones all the time.
    KJ78 likes this.
    03-05-2015 08:33 AM
  10. monsieurms's Avatar
    T
    Now, obviously "Samsung" doesn't have an attitude, it responds to market forces in whatever way it believes it can best capitalize - so in fact, Samsung's failings of aspiration are more in fact reflections of the poor atmosphere of their consumer base - many of which were making decisions based on very old software versions running on very cheap (in price and quality) devices. These signals must have been hard to overcome, but I for one am glad that Samsung has taken this tiny step towards rejoining the present course of the platform.
    You can make the same argument in favor of getting rid of anything. Lower the screen resolution. Maybe batteries will last longer. Get rid of the S pen. Hardly anyone really needs it, right? It devotes too much resources to this minor feature that could be used for other things! Who cares about the vocal minority that likes it? Just be like everyone else--be a follower instead of a leader.

    But keep slicing away groups that like this or that, and you pretty much find that your customer base has suddenly eroded. This 8% won't buy because it no longer has THIS. That 11% won't buy because it no longer has THAT. And so on. People have different computing needs. Samsung has made its bones by providing lots of key features that others didn't have. If it now goes on the warpath to keep taking things away, many of us will look for companies that give us what we want. SOMEONE will. It's a marketing advantage. It gives the company an identity.

    If you're the one who won't them buy them simply because they have,say, removable batteries, I suspect you're vastly outnumbered by those of us who consider it important as a feature and/or a deal-breaker. (Actually, for me the SD card is even more important.) There are 3 groups: those that gotta have, those that won't buy with it, and those in the middle who don't care either way. I imagine the middle is by far the largest group. Conceded. But I also would assert that the number of people who refuse to buy the phone simply BECAUSE it has sd card slots and removable batteries is somewhere between slim and none. It may not be a turn-on, but it is hardly a turn-off. Thus, Samsung has a net loss if it goes this way.

    As this market keeps getting more and more competitive and more and more mature, it's not so easy to distinguish oneself from competitors. These are increasingly mature products with only incremental advances. Making yourself look like everyone else is a really big mistake. And once people leave, they may never come back.
    03-05-2015 08:39 AM
  11. Aquila's Avatar
    You can make the same argument in favor of getting rid of anything. Lower the screen resolution. Maybe batteries will last longer. Get rid of the S pen. Hardly anyone really needs it, right? It devotes too much resources to this minor feature that could be used for other things! Who cares about the vocal minority that likes it? Just be like everyone else--be a follower instead of a leader.

    But keep slicing away groups that like this or that, and you pretty much find that your customer base has suddenly eroded. This 8% won't buy because it no longer has THIS. That 11% won't buy because it no longer has THAT. And so on. People have different computing needs. Samsung has made its bones by providing lots of key features that others didn't have. If it now goes on the warpath to keep taking things away, many of us will look for companies that give us what we want. SOMEONE will. It's a marketing advantage. It gives the company an identity.

    If you're the one who won't them buy them simply because they have,say, removable batteries, I suspect you're vastly outnumbered by those of us who consider it important as a feature and a deal-breaker. (Actually, for me the SD card is even more important.) There are 3 groups: those that gotta have, those that won't buy with it, and those in the middle who don't care either way. I imagine the middle is by far the largest group. But I also would assert that the number of people who refuse to buy the phone simply BECAUSE it has sd card slots and removable batteries is somewhere between slim and none. Thus, Samsung has a net loss of existing customers if it goes this way.

    As this market keeps getting more and more competitive and more and more mature, it's not so easy to distinguish oneself from competitors. Making yourself look like everyone else is a really big mistake. And once people leave, they may never come back.
    I'm not discounting that people want or do not want certain features. And the presence of these features won't prevent me from buying a device alone, they're representative of a mindset. I bought the Shield Tablet despite it having a microSD slot. There is no better tablet available, with or without that feature at any price. For a tablet marketed as being made for gaming, SD is a mistake. Most apps/games cannot be fully leveraged from an SD card and they're enormous. This is a case where internal storage (the increased speed, reliability) wins out over SD and IMO NVIDIA made the wrong call. That didn't stop me from buying it, I just choose not to use it. On the other end, of course there are some users who won't buy a device that omits that feature. That's totally fine too.
    03-05-2015 08:53 AM
  12. Inders99's Avatar
    Good news is HTC is willing to give you removable storage, and Saygus and LG are willing to give you both.
    LG is...for now anyway. Their first leak indicated a complete redesign:
    LG's mobile chief hints at design overhaul for upcoming G4 | Android Central
    03-05-2015 08:54 AM
  13. clevin's Avatar
    IME its quite a bit more than one year. The only phone I've had long enough to notice battery degradation was my iPhone 4. ... I had the battery replaced in the mall, while I waited, for $90.

    ������from the Note 4✒ ������
    I don't think your vague observation constitutes a quantifiable fact. I actually can present you some interesting stuff here.

    I have made regular battery calibrations since I got my Note 3 in Oct of 2013. http://forums.androidcentral.com/sam...reference.html

    The loss of capacity after a year is quite obvious and pronounced when you compare these data carefully.
    03-05-2015 09:01 AM
  14. clevin's Avatar
    sorry, mod, please delete this dup post. Not sure how it happened.
    03-05-2015 09:01 AM
  15. monsieurms's Avatar
    I' On the other end, of course there are some users who won't buy a device that omits that feature. That's totally fine too.
    We may disagree on some things, but live long and prosper.
    03-05-2015 09:32 AM
  16. anon8380037's Avatar
    If this is to apply to all flagship Samsung's in the future, make changing a battery an inexpensive, subsidised affair via stores, Samsung centres or express mail.
    About 20-25 for the battery plus 10-15 fitting and shipping, done. Will the warranty cover peoples battery jitters? If so people will be demanding a new one if it had a bad day.

    Anyway, in one or two years time, flagship phones will possibly have 128gb +, and development of sd card speeds will have stopped. Project Ara or whatever will be the in thing.

    What to do with this thread!

    It's done already.

    People could vote with their feet, but they won't. Launch day will have throngs, at least in the press.

    Continue venting, that's fine. The middle ground - ers will get tired of trying to appease and give up.

    Don't buy it. I know most of you do actually WANT and were looking forward to the S6 with removables, but it's not here.

    All that can be achieved is to try and influence the design of the Note 5 and S7/S6+.
    03-05-2015 10:32 AM
  17. atakin77's Avatar
    At the end of the day, the decision for Samsung to move away from the SD card and removable battery hinged on its market research. I'm sure they read comments on these forums (would assume they do anyway since they used to pay posters) but I guarantee Samsung spent millions upon millions of dollars on market and consumer research determining why people by a Samsung phone, why they don't, why they switch to other brands, etc. Then they probably spent countless more millions understanding how this consumer behavior would impact purchases of future phones. The end result of taking all those things into consideration is the S6. The design you see is one in which they feel they can make more money selling.
    03-05-2015 10:38 AM
  18. anon8380037's Avatar
    The design was determined by a marketing decision to go with an engineering decision to metal frame and glass it which sealed it as a necessity which was passed by a marketing decision.
    03-05-2015 11:03 AM
  19. KJ78's Avatar
    The only thing that really concerns me is the battery. Not that its not removable, but its on the low side. Now I am sure samsung tested it, but hope it doesn't end up like iPhone with so-so battery life. I am going to wait and see what reviewers say about battery life...
    Exactly. Battery size is down 10% from the S5. One of the benefits of an internal battery is that you can put more battery capacity in a smaller space. Reduced power consumption is always oversold on every new tech iteration. If $am$ung offered a Maxx version like Moto did with the Droid line I'd consider it. No way I'm going to depend on that small of a battery with that big of a screen. I don't want to be tethered to an electric outlet all day.
    03-05-2015 11:05 AM
  20. Haalcyon's Avatar
    I don't think your vague observation constitutes a quantifiable fact. I actually can present you some interesting stuff here.

    I have made regular battery calibrations since I got my Note 3 in Oct of 2013. http://forums.androidcentral.com/sam...reference.html

    The loss of capacity after a year is quite obvious and pronounced when you compare these data carefully.
    So, I'd possibly have more of an excuse to get a new device? Okay. I can live with that.

    ♻from the Note 4✒ 📶
    03-05-2015 11:08 AM
  21. Inders99's Avatar
    Exactly. Battery size is down 10% from the S5. One of the benefits of an internal battery is that you can put more battery capacity in a smaller space. Reduced power consumption is always oversold on every new tech iteration. If $am$ung offered a Maxx version like Moto did with the Droid line I'd consider it. No way I'm going to depend on that small of a battery with that big of a screen. I don't want to be tethered to an electric outlet all day.
    Wait for the actual real world feedback before judging this aspect.
    03-05-2015 11:08 AM
  22. Inders99's Avatar
    If this is to apply to all flagship Samsung's in the future, make changing a battery an inexpensive, subsidised affair via stores, Samsung centres or express mail.
    About 20-25 for the battery plus 10-15 fitting and shipping, done. Will the warranty cover peoples battery jitters? If so people will be demanding a new one if it had a bad day.
    Yes...without question. No on the mail though, since I use it for work I couldn't be without it for a few days. A store option would be fine.
    03-05-2015 11:09 AM
  23. Carrtman's Avatar
    As far as research goes: well if Samsung really spent millions on it they've wasted a lot of money because 1. A phone isn't fashion and 2. Someone anyone would have told them that a glass back is an enormous fingerprint magnet.

    I get it,I really do Iphone, Nexus and Motorola users don't care...fine but those guys and girls haven't been Samsung customers because they prefer something else (which is fine) ...on the other hand some Samsung customers are having expectations other manufacturers aren't meeting, period.

    The only thing I agree with is that it's too late for the s6 but not for the next Note or s6 Active.

    Also all those speed comparison benchmarks are useless I have my eye test and music, videos and pictures are running smooth on my sd cards. Maybe games would be different but a phone is a communication device not a toy.

    Thinner isn't always better try typing on one of those super thin phones and you'll find out what I mean.

    It's funny reading stuff like use the cloud, streaming services yeah sure I'm going to trust my data to other companies and risk getting hacked and create an extra account just to store music, videos and pictures on my phone...doesn't get much dumber seriously. Battery is the same joke everyone knows it will degrade over time and why should I accept less convenience and more hassle (weeks without my phone and 80 $) for something in should be able to do on myself.

    Nope, I don't need millions of research here to see that someone in charge of the s6 philosophy has screwed up big time.
    Scott7217 and KJ78 like this.
    03-05-2015 12:17 PM
  24. Inders99's Avatar
    The only thing I agree with is that it's too late for the s6 but not for the next Note or s6 Active.
    From your perspective. There are going to be plenty who don't want to be dumped in your basket.

    Nope, I don't need millions of research here to see that someone in charge of the s6 philosophy has screwed up big time.
    I've bookmarked this post for after we get some sales data.
    Prince_Poppycock likes this.
    03-05-2015 12:31 PM
  25. Carrtman's Avatar
    From your perspective. There are going to be plenty who don't want to be dumped in your basket.

    I've bookmarked this post for after we get some sales data.
    As long as I'm away as far as possible from your basket I'm fine with mine, thanks.

    Have fun with the bookmark *lol*
    03-05-2015 12:40 PM
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