03-26-2015 11:05 AM
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  1. iLLusive's Avatar
    So I want to better understand the technical side of making a device camera comparison. Right now I have looked a lot into HDR, F stop, aperture and a lot of time on personal opinions and photography websites. So with that being said I am asking for some people who probably work in fields using cameras and also passion for the latest and greatest devices.

    From a technical standpoint how does the Apple iPhone 6 / 6 Plus compare to technology in the Galaxy S 6. Mainly looking for for help making intelligent recommendations for people who are going to pick their next smartphone based on the camera. It happens a ton more recently as these devices are our life and while I know we love the brands we get good results from. Merely want more technical details that would make sense to a passionate consumer who knows about cameras.

    Thank you for any insight you can provide on this and to save a few people some time. Yes, I know right now smartphones are not replacements for DSLR and professional cameras....yet
    03-24-2015 10:20 PM
  2. jcp007's Avatar
    So I want to better understand the technical side of making a device camera comparison. Right now I have looked a lot into HDR, F stop, aperture and a lot of time on personal opinions and photography websites. So with that being said I am asking for some people who probably work in fields using cameras and also passion for the latest and greatest devices.

    From a technical standpoint how does the Apple iPhone 6 / 6 Plus compare to technology in the Galaxy S 6. Mainly looking for for help making intelligent recommendations for people who are going to pick their next smartphone based on the camera. It happens a ton more recently as these devices are our life and while I know we love the brands we get good results from. Merely want more technical details that would make sense to a passionate consumer who knows about cameras.

    Thank you for any insight you can provide on this and to save a few people some time. Yes, I know right now smartphones are not replacements for DSLR and professional cameras....yet










    sparker04 likes this.
    03-24-2015 10:24 PM
  3. warpdrive's Avatar
    simply put, the S6 had the best camera bar none in daylight, nighttime, and videos.

    http://m.gsmarena.com/shootout_galax...iew-1229p2.php

    Just look at the noise free images in daylight (that had far more details then the note4). Look at the great nighttime shots. the videos too.

    Look at crop #2 for the best example of detail with no noise or artifacts on the S6. The note4 can't say that. The iPhone 6 is crap.

    No other phone comes close. And I'm a retired photographer that has been published for over 35 years.

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-24-2015 10:29 PM
  4. jcp007's Avatar
    03-24-2015 10:37 PM
  5. iLLusive's Avatar
    simply put, the S6 had the best camera bar none in daylight, nighttime, and videos.

    Intergalactic camera shootout: Galaxy S6 vs. Galaxy S5 vs. Note 4 vs. iPhone 6 - GSMArena.com

    Just look at the noise free images in daylight (that had far more details then the note4). Look at the great nighttime shots. the videos too.

    Look at crop #2 for the best example of detail with no noise or artifacts on the S6. The note4 can't say that. The iPhone 6 is crap.

    No other phone comes close. And I'm a retired photographer that has been published for over 35 years.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Thanks for that and thanks for the reviews. Can you give me some more details though? Is is just a mix of great software and the right parts? Does the lens mean the most and really the only thing that matters? What makes the camera turn out such better photos then what is in the 6 Plus?
    03-24-2015 10:39 PM
  6. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    Thanks for that and thanks for the reviews. Can you give me some more details though? Is is just a mix of great software and the right parts? Does the lens mean the most and really the only thing that matters? What makes the camera turn out such better photos then what is in the 6 Plus?
    Thats mostly due to the F1.9 aperture plus OIS to do great low light photos and videos

    Here are low light samples



    03-24-2015 10:51 PM
  7. jcp007's Avatar
    The camera has a wider aperture making it better in low light conditions. Auto HDR and OIS . All this on bothe the RFC and FFC. Then one has to consider the firmware so I would say its great balance of both hardware and firmware. The camera has one of the UI.
    03-24-2015 10:54 PM
  8. warpdrive's Avatar
    Thanks for that and thanks for the reviews. Can you give me some more details though? Is is just a mix of great software and the right parts? Does the lens mean the most and really the only thing that matters? What makes the camera turn out such better photos then what is in the 6 Plus?
    It's a combination of things, but I'll try to answer your questions.

    First is the hardware.

    The F1.9 aperture is perfect for low light and nighttime photos. Add to that the optical image stabilization and you'll get nice photos in low light.

    The Sony 16mp sensor is the same as what is on the note 4, but the note 4 didn't have such a quality lens and it also over sharpens many if not all of its pictures. Over sharpening leads to artifacts such as a lack of detail and halos around edges. (take a look at crop #2 and you'll find halos on the railing and a lack of detail bellow. On crop #1 you can see noise on the left side of the sign. And so on.)
    So the S6 doesn't over sharpen, and that is a great thing.

    So between the lens, the sensor, and the software, the S6 uses the best of all combined to give you what you really want.

    Yet, please read the review that I linked as it goes into great detail as to what I'm saying.

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-24-2015 10:56 PM
  9. KarlDag's Avatar
    It's a combination of things, but I'll try to answer your questions.

    First is the hardware.

    The F1.9 aperture is perfect for low light and nighttime photos. Add to that the optical image stabilization and you'll get nice photos in low light.

    The Sony 16mp sensor is the same as what is on the note 4, but the note 4 didn't have such a quality lens and it also over sharpens many if not all of its pictures. Over sharpening leads to artifacts such as a lack of detail and halos around edges. (take a look at crop #2 and you'll find halos on the railing and a lack of detail bellow. On crop #1 you can see noise on the left side of the sign. And so on.)
    So the S6 doesn't over sharpen, and that is a great thing.

    So between the lens, the sensor, and the software, the S6 uses the best of all combined to give you what you really want.

    Yet, please read the review that I linked as it goes into great detail as to what I'm saying.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Exactly. Also, I it's one of the first phones to use phase detection auto focus, which is generally faster and more accurate than contrast based. It doesn't "breathe" always trying to find focus, which is very annoying in videos. Apple calls that tech focus pixels; google that for lots of info.
    03-24-2015 11:22 PM
  10. warpdrive's Avatar
    Exactly. Also, I it's one of the first phones to use phase detection auto focus, which is generally faster and more accurate than contrast based. It doesn't "breathe" always trying to find focus, which is very annoying in videos. Apple calls that tech focus pixels; google that for lots of info.
    Yep, forgot that. (I'm sure that there is plenty more I left out like this is the first time Samsung included pro mode were you can change a few things like contrast, sharpness, and vibrancy and then make a preset. But I can't fully say what you can do just yet because there is no true camera software review on the S6)

    Edit: I did some digging and came up with this for pro mode.
    First Look: Pro photo mode on the Samsung Galaxy S6:

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-24-2015 11:29 PM
  11. iLLusive's Avatar
    Really amazing feedback back, thank you all so much! So does Apple use any of these features of are these things exclusive to the S6?

    1. How does the F1.9 compare to F2.2?
    2. Does pixel count matter when you compare 1.5µ pixels from Apple to what ever S6 offers?
    3. Sony Sensor better option then what iPhone 6 plus uses?
    4. Phase Detection does the iPhone 6 plus have this?
    5. iSight do anything for the lens or photos themselves?
    6. Is the S6 truly Real Time HDR and does that compare or beat Auto HDR?
    03-24-2015 11:43 PM
  12. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    Really amazing feedback back, thank you all so much! So does Apple use any of these features of are these things exclusive to the S6?

    1. How does the F1.9 compare to F2.2?
    2. Does pixel count matter when you compare 1.5µ pixels from Apple to what ever S6 offers?
    3. Sony Sensor better option then what iPhone 6 plus uses?
    4. Phase Detection does the iPhone 6 plus have this?
    5. iSight do anything for the lens or photos themselves?
    6. Is the S6 truly Real Time HDR and does that compare or beat Auto HDR?
    1. Think of it like this...the smaller the number, the better low light you can get, so the S6 has an F1.9, which would mean it can take better low light photos than a F2.2; this would help explain apertures: https://photographylife.com/what-is-...in-photography
    2. Pixel count doesn't matter per say, but technically a higher pixel number means the clearer the picture will be overall. Thats not to say a smaller pixel camera will take less clear pics, but when zoomed in, the pic will be clearer with a higher pixel camera. When looking at the pic not zoomed in, you probably won't see much of a difference
    3. Yes the Sony sensor is better than what the iPhone uses
    4. Yes the iPhone 6 does have phase detection; source: iPhone 6 is the second phone to feature phase-detection autofocus, after the Galaxy S5
    5. iSight is just the name Apple uses for its camera, its not anything special. The S6 camera spec wise and quality wise is better than the iPhone 6's camera
    6. Yes the S6 is true real time HDR. This means you can see what your HDR pics will look like in real time even before you take the picture. The iPhone 6 cannot do this. The iPhone 6 will process HDR photos only after you take the pic
    warpdrive likes this.
    03-25-2015 12:02 AM
  13. warpdrive's Avatar
    Really amazing feedback back, thank you all so much! So does Apple use any of these features of are these things exclusive to the S6?

    1. How does the F1.9 compare to F2.2?
    2. Does pixel count matter when you compare 1.5µ pixels from Apple to what ever S6 offers?
    3. Sony Sensor better option then what iPhone 6 plus uses?
    4. Phase Detection does the iPhone 6 plus have this?
    5. iSight do anything for the lens or photos themselves?
    6. Is the S6 truly Real Time HDR and does that compare or beat Auto HDR?
    1) the difference is about a 3rd of a stop. That helps with a slightly faster shutter speed if both are taken at the same iso.

    More importantly, I feel that with the Sony Sensor (on the S6 and note4) you need at least a F2.0 lens so you don't have problems with airy disk issues.
    More info here on airy disk
    http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...hotography.htm

    (this could be why on the note 4 you get some loss of details or smudging)

    2) well this is 2 questions.
    a) is 16mp (Samsung) vs 8mp (iPhone)
    Yes, more details will be had by default with 16mp.
    b) But the iPhone has larger pixels... This normally gives you better dynamic range, but software of today does a great job with smaller pixels and adding more dynamic range.

    3) much better options with the Sony sensor unless I'm mistaken.

    4) yes, they call it focus pixels because iphones are for dummies.

    5) iSight is what Apple calls is rear facing cameras because calling it a rear facing camera would confuse an iPhone user.

    6) it is my understanding that yes the new HDR on the S6 is live and in real time. Uh, yes it's better as you can now see your results before you shoot.

    (btw Smooth, I gave you a like and a fav because you beat me to it. lol)

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-25-2015 12:14 AM
  14. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    1. Think of it like this...the smaller the number, the better low light you can get, so the S6 has an F1.9, which would mean it can take better low light photos than a F2.2; this would help explain apertures: https://photographylife.com/what-is-...in-photography
    3. Yes the Sony sensor is better than what the iPhone uses
    1. It's not as simplistic as that. Smaller f-stop means that the lens is larger and more light can enter, however things like sensor size, shutter speed and ISO (sensitivity to light) are all aspects (more important aspects as well) to better low light photography. It's not just 'smaller f-stop means better low light photos'. There's way more to it than that. Don't give out false information.

    F-stop 1.9 vs 2.2 means that the 1.9 is larger and will allow more light to enter, that's it. Has nothing to do with the quality of the photographs. Along with that, there are downsides to lower f-stops as well. All depends on what you want to take photographs of, there are tradeoffs with all cameras on phones.

    3. I'd argue that the Sony sensor in the iPhone 6 (f-stop 2.2, 1.5 micron sensor) is better as it has a larger physical active sensor which captures more information for processing. Having a wider lens is nice, but that information has to hit the sensor for it to be useable. Larger sensor = more information. But more important than that, I believe Apple have the best camera software processing engineers. The cameras on their phones are consistently lauded and I have to admit that they're damn great at taking photos. If there's one thing I'll praise about iPhones (in particular the iP6 and iP6+) it's the cameras. I haven't seen a phone take better photos in so many scenarios than them, but I hope the Galaxy S6 will change that. Apple just seem to have the camera software processing down pat.

    The problem with a lot of these so called 'camera comparison' things you see on websites is that they always compare photos on crops where they choose a small section of a photo, crop it and then ask the viewers to decide which image looks better. Android phones having typically higher resolutions than iPhones (in the 16mp to 20mp range) obviously will have better resolved images than an 8mp camera on crops, which is why those camera comparisons are complete garbage. The websites that do those comparisons stack the android cameras to win. It's lazy and it's not a good indicator for real image quality.

    The better photo is the one that looks better in its entirety, not just some lame crop.

    6) it is my understanding that yes the new HDR on the S6 is live and in real time. Uh, yes it's better as you can now see your results before you shoot.

    (btw Smooth, I gave you a like and a fav because you beat me to it. lol)
    So because the S6 has real-time HDR (which isn't really HDR, would just be a guess by the software), that somehow means it's better?

    Now I've heard it all. I used to think the better image was the one that looked better after it's taken. I guess now the better image is the one before it's taken because one phone can guess the HDR effect before taking the photo....

    Real-time HDR being done before the image is taken doesn't beat or mean it's any better. It's just a feature Samsung has added. Doesn't mean that the end result is any better, and the end result is all that matters.

    I'd rather no real-time HDR and the images being great over having real-time HDR and having mediocre HDR images.
    03-25-2015 01:32 AM
  15. drone3's Avatar
    Hope this isn't highjacking the thread, but does anyone know why videos are often choppy on android compared to iPhone? Like when recording it will skip frames, if that makes sense.

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-25-2015 02:01 AM
  16. warpdrive's Avatar
    1. It's not as simplistic as that. Smaller f-stop means that the lens is larger and more light can enter, however things like sensor size, shutter speed and ISO (sensitivity to light) are all aspects (more important aspects as well) to better low light photography. It's not just 'smaller f-stop means better low light photos'. There's way more to it than that. Don't give out false information.

    F-stop 1.9 vs 2.2 means that the 1.9 is larger and will allow more light to enter, that's it. Has nothing to do with the quality of the photographs. Along with that, there are downsides to lower f-stops as well. All depends on what you want to take photographs of, there are tradeoffs with all cameras on phones.

    3. I'd argue that the Sony sensor in the iPhone 6 (f-stop 2.2, 1.5 micron sensor) is better as it has a larger physical active sensor which captures more information for processing. Having a wider lens is nice, but that information has to hit the sensor for it to be useable. Larger sensor = more information. But more important than that, I believe Apple have the best camera software processing engineers. The cameras on their phones are consistently lauded and I have to admit that they're damn great at taking photos. If there's one thing I'll praise about iPhones (in particular the iP6 and iP6+) it's the cameras. I haven't seen a phone take better photos in so many scenarios than them, but I hope the Galaxy S6 will change that. Apple just seem to have the camera software processing down pat.

    The problem with a lot of these so called 'camera comparison' things you see on websites is that they always compare photos on crops where they choose a small section of a photo, crop it and then ask the viewers to decide which image looks better. Android phones having typically higher resolutions than iPhones (in the 16mp to 20mp range) obviously will have better resolved images than an 8mp camera on crops, which is why those camera comparisons are complete garbage. The websites that do those comparisons stack the android cameras to win. It's lazy and it's not a good indicator for real image quality.

    The better photo is the one that looks better in its entirety, not just some lame crop.



    So because the S6 has real-time HDR (which isn't really HDR, would just be a guess by the software), that somehow means it's better?

    Now I've heard it all. I used to think the better image was the one that looked better after it's taken. I guess now the better image is the one before it's taken because one phone can guess the HDR effect before taking the photo....

    Real-time HDR being done before the image is taken doesn't beat or mean it's any better. It's just a feature Samsung has added. Doesn't mean that the end result is any better, and the end result is all that matters.

    I'd rather no real-time HDR and the images being great over having real-time HDR and having mediocre HDR images.
    I typically agree with you hero but sadly I can't this time.

    While I agree that it is more than just the lens or Fstop that is important in low light photography, because in cellphones we are shooting in only aperture mode, yes aperture size is quite important in determining how well a person can shoot in low light of all other things are equal.

    Due to shooting in aperture mode, only fast lenses are best when in low light. It's why on the m7 it was a fast F2.0 lens combined with a good (2 stop maybe) OIS that helped provide the user with workable shutter speeds. The S4 at the time had some tricks up its sleeve but it was never seemed good with its F2.2 lens and software tricks.
    So is the sensor and iso important too? As I said, yes. But if all things are equal, then it boils down to the F-stop.

    Also, while I agree with sensors being important, pixel size (what you are referring to) didn't always equal quality. A good example is the m7. it too had larger pixels then most cellphones but the dynamic range was horrible in all the photos it took. (I know, my wife has the m7) so I'll say again, I originally agree that it is a combination of hardware and software that makes it or breaks it.

    As for live HDR, I agree that a better implementation is better then worse. But with live view I now know my results before I shoot, not after when I'm gone and may have to go back and reshoot.

    Now if typically the Galaxy line of phones took horrible HDR photos, then yes live view would be just a gimmick. But since the Galaxy line of phones have some of the best HDR photos, then live view is not at all a gimmick and helps the user in knowing what the results will be before a picture is taken.


    Now, as far as testing methods are concerned. The link I provided listed "crops" all from the same image (example: daylight) . So when enlarged or cropped, you now see the left side, the right side, and the center of that single image. In other words, if the S6 and the ip6 both had the image made into an 8x10 print, then yes, the ip6 would be crap compared to the S6 because you would notice it in the whole image.
    (at least I would notice)
    So yes, the link I provided showed only crops from one image (in daylight) and thus proved that from edge to edge the S6 is now the new "baseline" for all cellphone cameras to compare with.
    Show me a better testing method and I may see things differently. But for right now, this was one of the best camera tests I've seen, and like you I'm an HTC fan so there is no bias here my friend.

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-25-2015 05:16 AM
  17. jcp007's Avatar
    Can't answer all.

    1. The wider aperture allows for better low light pictures and videos.
    03-25-2015 06:23 AM
  18. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    1. It's not as simplistic as that. Smaller f-stop means that the lens is larger and more light can enter, however things like sensor size, shutter speed and ISO (sensitivity to light) are all aspects (more important aspects as well) to better low light photography. It's not just 'smaller f-stop means better low light photos'. There's way more to it than that. Don't give out false information.

    F-stop 1.9 vs 2.2 means that the 1.9 is larger and will allow more light to enter, that's it. Has nothing to do with the quality of the photographs. Along with that, there are downsides to lower f-stops as well. All depends on what you want to take photographs of, there are tradeoffs with all cameras on phones.
    I did not give out false information. I know its more but I was just trying to simplify the explanation for him. Yes a smaller f-stop means wider lens, which means more light can enter you said, but also means it can capture low light images faster, thus more clear than a higher f-stop lens. Sure, the sensor and lighting conditions make a difference makes a difference, but ultimately an F1.9 can capture better low light pics than the F2.2, especially since the S6 is using the Sony sensor

    "Because larger maximum aperture means that the lens can pass through more light, and hence, your camera can capture images faster in low-light situations. Having a larger maximum aperture also means better ability to isolate subjects from the background."
    https://photographylife.com/what-is-...in-photography

    "Aperture is rated by f-stops, and the lower that number is the wider the aperture. In most cases, an aperture of f/1.8 is as wide as you want to go because f/1.8 at 50mm provides a very shallow depth of field. You'll let in plenty of light this way and can get some beautiful photos in low-light conditions."
    How Can I Take Better Photos in Low Light?
    03-25-2015 07:17 AM
  19. smooth4lyfe's Avatar
    So because the S6 has real-time HDR (which isn't really HDR, would just be a guess by the software), that somehow means it's better?

    Now I've heard it all. I used to think the better image was the one that looked better after it's taken. I guess now the better image is the one before it's taken because one phone can guess the HDR effect before taking the photo....

    Real-time HDR being done before the image is taken doesn't beat or mean it's any better. It's just a feature Samsung has added. Doesn't mean that the end result is any better, and the end result is all that matters.

    I'd rather no real-time HDR and the images being great over having real-time HDR and having mediocre HDR images.
    The S6 doesn't take mediocre HDR, and also has an auto-HDR feature just like the iPhone does. Combine that with its F1.9 lens and Sony sensor, and the HDR images are pretty good

    Samsung Galaxy S6 review: Subject Zero - page 8 - GSMArena.com
    03-25-2015 07:28 AM
  20. KarlDag's Avatar
    Hope this isn't highjacking the thread, but does anyone know why videos are often choppy on android compared to iPhone? Like when recording it will skip frames, if that makes sense.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Apple designs is own SOC , including the isp/dsp. Most android phones use qualcomm SOCs, so they don't control the dsp and have to work with a generic offering, so the interaction of software and hardware isn't as good, therefore else results.
    03-25-2015 08:15 AM
  21. stevelam's Avatar
    lets be honest here. the 1.9 lenses allowing more light does not mean your photo will automatically look good in the dark. if anything since the lens will also be open longer anyway, unless you're on a tripod or your subjects are completely still, it'll just come out blurry.
    I Can Be Your Hero likes this.
    03-25-2015 01:06 PM
  22. Jdroids's Avatar
    lets be honest here. the 1.9 lenses allowing more light does not mean your photo will automatically look good in the dark. if anything since the lens will also be open longer anyway, unless you're on a tripod or your subjects are completely still, it'll just come out blurry.
    Looks like you need to learn more about photography basics. Faster lens aperture means you can dial back on ISO and exposure time to achieve the same level of exposure. This would result in much cleaner image with less noise and less motion blur due to shorter exposure time. Slower lens (high F number) will be like what you are saying as that would need longer exposure.
    03-25-2015 02:24 PM
  23. stevelam's Avatar
    Looks like you need to learn more about photography basics. Faster lens aperture means you can dial back on ISO and exposure time to achieve the same level of exposure. This would result in much cleaner image with less noise and less motion blur due to shorter exposure time. Slower lens (high F number) will be like what you are saying as that would need longer exposure.
    like i said, you're still working in LOW LIGHT. regardless of the faster lens aperture, unless you're using a tripod or have extremely still subject matter, it'll still come out blurry because even if your exposure were shorter, you're still not likely gonna be shooting at 1/60 or even close to that.

    one review of the camera said in their average low light photos, the s6 chose around 1/10 shutter speed most of the time. thats way too slow to capture a typical usable photo (once again, unless you're using a tripod or extremely still subject matter)

    that being said, the camera is the biggest selling point for me and could be enough for me to leave my iphone and jump to android.
    03-25-2015 02:39 PM
  24. warpdrive's Avatar
    like i said, you're still working in LOW LIGHT. regardless of the faster lens aperture, unless you're using a tripod or have extremely still subject matter, it'll still come out blurry because even if your exposure were shorter, you're still not likely gonna be shooting at 1/60 or even close to that.

    one review of the camera said in their average low light photos, the s6 chose around 1/10 shutter speed most of the time. thats way too slow to capture a typical usable photo (once again, unless you're using a tripod or extremely still subject matter)
    And that's where the optical image stabilization comes in.

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-25-2015 02:45 PM
  25. Cobravision's Avatar
    3. I'd argue that the Sony sensor in the iPhone 6 (f-stop 2.2, 1.5 micron sensor) is better as it has a larger physical active sensor which captures more information for processing. Having a wider lens is nice, but that information has to hit the sensor for it to be useable. Larger sensor = more information.
    The pixels of the iPhone 6 sensor are larger (1.5 microns vs 1.2 microns) but the tradeoff is MP. The iPhone 6 sensor is 1/3" and is smaller than the 1/2.6" S6 sensor.

    Samsung Galaxy S6 Technical camera details - Seeking knowledge please!-sensorsizes.jpg

    Real-time HDR being done before the image is taken doesn't beat or mean it's any better. It's just a feature Samsung has added. Doesn't mean that the end result is any better, and the end result is all that matters.

    I'd rather no real-time HDR and the images being great over having real-time HDR and having mediocre HDR images.
    I haven't been able to find an explanation for the voodoo that is Samsung's real time HDR, but it performs as well if not better than traditional HDR in all the camera phone shootouts I've seen. But the real advantage is that it doesn't require multiple shots, meaning you can use it for action shots. Having the preview is also a great feature. If the HDR images from the Galaxy cameras was merely software post processing, the images would have all sorts of artifacting and weird patches (like the fake bokeh modes). They don't. They're awesome.
    03-25-2015 03:25 PM
30 12

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