05-29-2015 03:19 AM
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  1. berdinkerdickle's Avatar
    My guess is that the iPhone is pushed harder because it has much higher margins for the retailer due to a higher sell-through price than your average Android phone (maybe as much as double) plus I'm pretty sure the number of returns/issues is far lower with Apple devices. Every time I'm at my phone retailer, I see a line of people needing Android support but very few Apple issues. I always marvel at that.

    Obviously, the iPhone is a much less complicated device so much easier for the end user and there is also great support from Apple itself. So from a retailers perspective, the margin is just much higher for iPhones due to higher selling prices and much less post-sales support.
    That answers my question I made in the iOS vs Android thread.
    I posted there how I'm reading of several replacement for faulty Android devices, but questioned if Apple has less replacement issues.
    Techno-guy likes this.
    05-25-2015 08:10 PM
  2. berdinkerdickle's Avatar
    However, I then posted the Galaxy Note line appears to be rock solid.
    05-25-2015 08:11 PM
  3. msm0511's Avatar
    Most reviews were very positive, but that doesn't mean much since average user doesn't read them. I will say this from my own vzw experiences, that while on the whole, I see salespeople promoting iPhones more than anything else, it's a lot more balanced at corporate stores than at "authorized retailers." I walked into a couple non corporate stores shortly before purchasing my S6 and I didn't see or hear any salesperson present an android phone in a positive light. Could be just those two stores (same reseller) but I certainly didn't like the vibe I got and nonetheless bought from a corporate store.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    At AT&T the salespeople definitely push Samsung the most. I even had 2 different employees tell me they do. Of course those are just 2 employees in 2 different cities, but every time I've been in an AT&T store, the first thing they try to do is push a Samsung device on me.
    cwise222 likes this.
    05-26-2015 07:00 PM
  4. Zoostation's Avatar
    At AT&T the salespeople definitely push Samsung the most. I even had 2 different employees tell me they do. Of course those are just 2 employees in 2 different cities, but every time I've been in an AT&T store, the first thing they try to do is push a Samsung device on me.
    Did some price checking today and AT&T is noticeably higher priced than VZW on S6/S6 Edge models, so maybe they are marking them up more and pushing a higher margin device. iPhones are priced identically at full retail amongst all of the big 4.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    05-26-2015 07:19 PM
  5. asanatheist's Avatar
    My guess is that the iPhone is pushed harder because it has much higher margins for the retailer due to a higher sell-through price than your average Android phone (maybe as much as double) plus I'm pretty sure the number of returns/issues is far lower with Apple devices. Every time I'm at my phone retailer, I see a line of people needing Android support but very few Apple issues. I always marvel at that.
    1. Apple products have lower margins than competitors. However they bring in a lot of people, retailers bank on the flow of people to buy the $50 plastic cases, and $30 cables to make their profit.
    2. Not really, Apple phones (and devices) have many defects as well. They're average in the industry. It's kind of puzzling how considering they only one device model (with the exception of the iPhone 6 plus/6 per generation).
    05-26-2015 11:51 PM
  6. Techno-guy's Avatar
    1. Apple products have lower margins than competitors. However they bring in a lot of people, retailers bank on the flow of people to buy the $50 plastic cases, and $30 cables to make their profit.
    2. Not really, Apple phones (and devices) have many defects as well. They're average in the industry. It's kind of puzzling how considering they only one device model (with the exception of the iPhone 6 plus/6 per generation).
    Not sure you are correct. The return rate for Android phones has been called Android's "Dirty Little Secret" by a number of publications. Android return rates are as high as 30-40% whereas iPhone returns are in the single digits. That helps drive retailer margins up significantly for Apple products since they have far less post-sales support (plus customers generally go to Apple first relieving additional burden from retailers). Margins are not just the gross margin on the product but how much it costs to sell it.
    05-27-2015 07:01 PM
  7. warpdrive's Avatar
    Not sure you are correct. The return rate for Android phones has been called Android's "Dirty Little Secret" by a number of publications. Android return rates are as high as 30-40% whereas iPhone returns are in the single digits. That helps drive retailer margins up significantly for Apple products since they have far less post-sales support (plus customers generally go to Apple first relieving additional burden from retailers). Margins are not just the gross margin on the product but how much it costs to sell it.
    Can I have a source for this information please?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    05-27-2015 07:03 PM
  8. Techno-guy's Avatar
    Can I have a source for this information please?

    Posted via the Android Central App
    I remember reading it in a book about 18 months ago (can't recall the name off the top of my head) but here is an older report from 2011 saying the same thing:

    Android’s Dirty Secret: Shipping Numbers Are Strong But Returns Are 30-40% | TechCrunch
    05-27-2015 07:15 PM
  9. warpdrive's Avatar
    I remember reading it in a book about 18 months ago (can't recall the name off the top of my head) but here is an older report from 2011 saying the same thing:

    Android’s Dirty Secret: Shipping Numbers Are Strong But Returns Are 30-40% | TechCrunch
    Well let's take a look at that shall we...

    1)The article is from 2011.

    2) This is the name of the source from the article.... "However, on the ground, many return rates are approaching 40% said a person familiar with handset sales for multiple manufacturers." heck, no name? Let's just call him Johnny Ives while we're at it.

    3) business insider reported on this article and later did an update. This is what they found.... "Yesterday a report, citing a single source, claimed that people were returning Android phones to the store at a staggering 30-40% rate. If so that would mean that Android is much smaller than we thought--but we also doubted the report because the number was so high.

    Now Pudong Daily, which is written by a former consumer electronics executive, writes that the number just isn't possible:

    From experience, retailers start complaining and asking for compensations when return rate gets higher than 5-7%.

    Even worse, not a single phone vendor would launch any Android-based phone if it would be rejected by so many customers. With such a return rate, the HTC and Samsung of this world would loose [sic] money on all of their Android models.

    That's what we thought. "

    http://www.businessinsider.com/andro...e-30-40-2011-7

    Posted via the Android Central App
    05-27-2015 07:25 PM
  10. asanatheist's Avatar
    Not sure you are correct. The return rate for Android phones has been called Android's "Dirty Little Secret" by a number of publications. Android return rates are as high as 30-40% whereas iPhone returns are in the single digits. That helps drive retailer margins up significantly for Apple products since they have far less post-sales support (plus customers generally go to Apple first relieving additional burden from retailers). Margins are not just the gross margin on the product but how much it costs to sell it.
    Where I am at we were going to be authorized apple center/apple "retailer". The margins were too low, period. You cannot make a business making $10-$15~ per iPad sometimes less. I am not sure how anyone can work with those margins. (PS before you say anything alot of tech brick/mortar stores are going out of business slowly but surely in the US).
    Lastly there are not that many Apple stores in the country to service every location. Trust me many people still go back to the carrier or retailer.
    Return rates are not defective rates, you specified people having issues (defects) not returning devices.

    Once again defective rates are about the same for Apple as other mfger's sometimes worse sometimes better. If often varies model to model.
    05-27-2015 07:48 PM
  11. Phillip Pugh's Avatar
    Since when is 10 million sold in a month a bad thing you guys are making way to much of this . Lg said they hope to sale 10 million g4 in a year . Don't here a lot of complaints about lg sales folks just love the glass half empty with samsung's products lot of hating going on

    Posted via the Android Central App
    05-27-2015 08:06 PM
  12. Phillip Pugh's Avatar
    As soon as the Note 4 and Note Edge came out, I started seeing them at work and roundabout. Also with the S5.
    But I have yet to see an S6.
    Amazon shows the sales as being way down. And both Verizon and Amazon show most review complaints with horrible battery life.
    So, it's not a big surprise the sales are down.
    The gs6 has been out little over a month it'll take a least another month are so before you start seeing them more . I can say the same thing for the iPhone 6 didn't start see then until 3 months later saw a lot of iphone 5 same with a lot of 4s 5S . It tale time before the phone get the chance to circulator in the market

    Posted via the Android Central App
    05-27-2015 08:11 PM
  13. DEman19901's Avatar
    I am passing on the Galaxy S6. I will hold on to my S4 and get an iPhone 6.
    05-27-2015 08:12 PM
  14. dnangel_95's Avatar
    Since when is 10 million sold in a month a bad thing you guys are making way to much of this . Lg said they hope to sale 10 million g4 in a year . Don't here a lot of complaints about lg sales folks just love the glass half empty with samsung's products lot of hating going on
    Thing is.... Samsung ≠ LG.
    It's Samsung > LG
    05-27-2015 08:23 PM
  15. Techno-guy's Avatar
    Well let's take a look at that shall we...

    1)The article is from 2011.

    2) This is the name of the source from the article.... "However, on the ground, many return rates are approaching 40% said a person familiar with handset sales for multiple manufacturers." heck, no name? Let's just call him Johnny Ives while we're at it.

    3) business insider reported on this article and later did an update. This is what they found.... "Yesterday a report, citing a single source, claimed that people were returning Android phones to the store at a staggering 30-40% rate. If so that would mean that Android is much smaller than we thought--but we also doubted the report because the number was so high.

    Now Pudong Daily, which is written by a former consumer electronics executive, writes that the number just isn't possible:

    From experience, retailers start complaining and asking for compensations when return rate gets higher than 5-7%.

    Even worse, not a single phone vendor would launch any Android-based phone if it would be rejected by so many customers. With such a return rate, the HTC and Samsung of this world would loose [sic] money on all of their Android models.

    That's what we thought. "

    Android Returns Can't Be 30-40% - Business Insider

    Posted via the Android Central App
    I agree entirely that the number is really high and would not be a sustainable business model. That return rate really is out of the park. But that wasn't my source for the information. I shared that my source for the information is that I read it in a book roughly about Android roughly 18 months ago (but the return number certainly wasn't as high as this 2011 article, but off of memory I do recall Android returns being many factors higher than iPhone returns).

    Regardless of any of this, if you think that retailer margins are higher for Android over iPhone, that's ok. I'd love to see actual, current data. I just tend to doubt it considering how hard every single retailer pushes iPhone sales. Even if the iPhone gross margin is lower, the sales price is much higher on average than Android phones (my guess is at least double) and the retailer post sales support is considerably less so the actual net profit to the retailer (in actual dollars, not %) must be far higher for iPhone empirically since they push them so hard.
    05-27-2015 08:23 PM
  16. donm527's Avatar
    Samsung Sells Fewer Galaxy S5 Than Galaxy S4 Phones | Digital Trends

    Somewhat of deja vu when Shin was talking about the S5... not sure how much faith then you put on his words regarding the S6....

    "Samsung spent much of 2013 boasting about Galaxy S4 sales, which reached a record-breaking 40 million after six months, but the firm has stayed quiet about the S5 since May. At the time, Shin said S5 sales were stronger than the S4."

    DuStU likes this.
    05-27-2015 08:37 PM
  17. warpdrive's Avatar
    I agree entirely that the number is really high and would not be a sustainable business model. That return rate really is out of the park. But that wasn't my source for the information. I shared that my source for the information is that I read it in a book roughly about Android roughly 18 months ago (but the return number certainly wasn't as high as this 2011 article, but off of memory I do recall Android returns being many factors higher than iPhone returns).

    Regardless of any of this, if you think that retailer margins are higher for Android over iPhone, that's ok. I'd love to see actual, current data. I just tend to doubt it considering how hard every single retailer pushes iPhone sales. Even if the iPhone gross margin is lower, the sales price is much higher on average than Android phones (my guess is at least double) and the retailer post sales support is considerably less so the actual net profit to the retailer (in actual dollars, not %) must be far higher for iPhone empirically since they push them so hard.
    I pay close attention to sales reps at every retail carrier. The vast majority have no idea what each phone's pros and cons are, never mind any features. The iPhone is just simple to sell. Nothing more and nothing less. Just simple and easy. Nothing a sales rep needs to invest time in learning the product. Nothing to do with margins either.

    But ask a sales rep about some features of an m9 or the motoX, and they just cringe at the thought of having to demonstrate the items. It's like they are lost and have no idea what they are talking about.

    (disclaimer: not all reps are that bad and some are great, but most are lost on anything that they just don't know or use daily.)

    Posted via the Android Central App
    05-27-2015 08:40 PM
  18. donm527's Avatar
    depends how you spin it. 10 million of anything by itself is impressive. 10 million compared to number of previous gen phone sold in same time period is another thing. 10 million compared to 10 million of previous gen phones that cost $30 less per S6 phone is another thing.

    10 million S6 compared to the S5 which was considered a flop compared to S4 sales that Samsung is hoping to exceed with the S6 is also another thing.

    There is not a lot of complaints about LG sales because sales in North American jumped 66 percent year-over-year.

    So when you look at it from a historical view of past few years, Samsung, whose glass looked full a few years ago is now half empty. LG on the other hand who had little a few years ago their glass looks half full.

    Since when is 10 million sold in a month a bad thing you guys are making way to much of this . Lg said they hope to sale 10 million g4 in a year . Don't here a lot of complaints about lg sales folks just love the glass half empty with samsung's products lot of hating going on

    Posted via the Android Central App
    05-27-2015 08:49 PM
  19. donm527's Avatar
    Geez, imo you really can't use 3 year old article/data to use in todays phones. Three years ago I believe there were a ton of terrible phones out there. Last couple of years I think you can say the majority of phones in specs and in build quality have been the best ever which has probably contributed to samsungs headache in competition as much as iphone competition.

    I remember reading it in a book about 18 months ago (can't recall the name off the top of my head) but here is an older report from 2011 saying the same thing:

    Android’s Dirty Secret: Shipping Numbers Are Strong But Returns Are 30-40% | TechCrunch
    05-27-2015 08:57 PM
  20. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    Since when is 10 million sold in a month a bad thing you guys are making way to much of this . Lg said they hope to sale 10 million g4 in a year . Don't here a lot of complaints about lg sales folks just love the glass half empty with samsung's products lot of hating going on

    Posted via the Android Central App
    It's not about hating Samsung (well, at least not for me). If I look at it from a business perspective then the S4 sold 10 million in less than a month, The S5 sold 11 million in a month and if the S6 sold 10 million in the first month, then there is a problem for Samsung. The company and investors expect year-on-year growth of their products. If the S5 sold 11 million in the first month, then the S6 is expected to sell more. Fair or unfair, reasonable or unreasonable, it doesn't matter - that's what the expectation is.

    Sure, in a vacuum, selling 10 million of anything is a lot, but from a business perspective where you've been selling tens of millions of phones, and the trend is now starting to look downward, that's a problem for the company.

    Yes it's more than LG expect to sell in a year, but if the G4 sales improve on the G3 sales, then to LG, their phone was successful.

    From a consumer's standpoint - The S6 is a really good phone. What it sells in the first month/quarter/year, I don't really care about. I don't own shares in Samsung and all I care about is for them to product great products, which they have done.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-27-2015 09:33 PM
  21. Aquila's Avatar
    Investors want year over year revenue and profits, not units moved. Are the new Samsung's but the just expensive and profitable yet?

    Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-27-2015 09:35 PM
  22. berdinkerdickle's Avatar
    It's not about hating Samsung (well, at least not for me). If I look at it from a business perspective then the S4 sold 10 million in less than a month, The S5 sold 11 million in a month and if the S6 sold 10 million in the first month, then there is a problem for Samsung. The company and investors expect year-on-year growth of their products. If the S5 sold 11 million in the first month, then the S6 is expected to sell more. Fair or unfair, reasonable or unreasonable, it doesn't matter - that's what the expectation is.

    Sure, in a vacuum, selling 10 million of anything is a lot, but from a business perspective where you've been selling tens of millions of phones, and the trend is now starting to look downward, that's a problem for the company.

    Yes it's more than LG expect to sell in a year, but if the G4 sales improve on the G3 sales, then to LG, their phone was successful.

    From a consumer's standpoint - The S6 is a really good phone. What it sells in the first month/quarter/year, I don't really care about. I don't own shares in Samsung and all I care about is for them to product great products, which they have done.
    I understand this.
    It isn't about me thinking my phone is winning or losing, it's about where are the shareholders going to move their money. Money needed for Innovation.
    Money to build us better phones.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-27-2015 09:48 PM
  23. berdinkerdickle's Avatar
    As far as Apple having less support issues; I actually assumed that was the case. It wasn't too hard for me to believe because of my experience with past laptops (even Dell) compared to my 17" MacBook Pro. I can't believe how many years I've had this thing and how enduring it is, how rock solid, ridiculously stable it is. Not one Hardware, not one software issue.
    But then in another thread, NexusGirl says that the iPhone has its fair share of issues. Many threads in the iPhone forums.
    05-27-2015 09:56 PM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I understand this.
    It isn't about me thinking my phone is winning or losing, it's about where are the shareholders going to move their money. Money needed for Innovation.
    Money to build us better phones.
    I wonder if this is different with companies like LG and Samsung that are very diversified and make a lot more products than just phones, compared to companies like HTC that don't have any products other than phones. In other words, if phone sales are down but say TV sales are up, will they use the money from the TV sales to invest in R&D for better phones, in the hope of improving phone sales?

    Disclaimer: I don't hold any stock in LG or Samsung, so I mentioned "TV sales" hypothetically. I don't know how their TVs are selling, but one could replace "TV" with any other product beside phones that is selling well.
    05-27-2015 10:00 PM
  25. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    Investors want year over year revenue and profits, not units moved. Are the new Samsung's but the just expensive and profitable yet?

    Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.
    Sales drive revenue and profits though, so it's an important metric.

    And if the sales aren't exactly what they're expecting, I could understand why Samsung are shying away from revealing the first month sales.
    05-27-2015 10:00 PM
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