Article denying Forbes claim of s6 sales

[donm527]

Samsung Sells Fewer Galaxy S5 Than Galaxy S4 Phones | Digital Trends

Somewhat of deja vu when Shin was talking about the S5... not sure how much faith then you put on his words regarding the S6....

"Samsung spent much of 2013 boasting about Galaxy S4 sales, which reached a record-breaking 40 million after six months, but the firm has stayed quiet about the S5 since May. At the time, Shin said S5 sales were stronger than the S4."

Did anyone see this? Galaxy S6: Samsung denies reports that handset is selling slower than the Galaxy S5 - V3.co.uk

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[warpdrive]

I agree entirely that the number is really high and would not be a sustainable business model. That return rate really is out of the park. But that wasn't my source for the information. I shared that my source for the information is that I read it in a book roughly about Android roughly 18 months ago (but the return number certainly wasn't as high as this 2011 article, but off of memory I do recall Android returns being many factors higher than iPhone returns).

Regardless of any of this, if you think that retailer margins are higher for Android over iPhone, that's ok. I'd love to see actual, current data. I just tend to doubt it considering how hard every single retailer pushes iPhone sales. Even if the iPhone gross margin is lower, the sales price is much higher on average than Android phones (my guess is at least double) and the retailer post sales support is considerably less so the actual net profit to the retailer (in actual dollars, not %) must be far higher for iPhone empirically since they push them so hard.

I pay close attention to sales reps at every retail carrier. The vast majority have no idea what each phone's pros and cons are, never mind any features. The iPhone is just simple to sell. Nothing more and nothing less. Just simple and easy. Nothing a sales rep needs to invest time in learning the product. Nothing to do with margins either.

But ask a sales rep about some features of an m9 or the motoX, and they just cringe at the thought of having to demonstrate the items. It's like they are lost and have no idea what they are talking about.

(disclaimer: not all reps are that bad and some are great, but most are lost on anything that they just don't know or use daily.)

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[donm527]

depends how you spin it. 10 million of anything by itself is impressive. 10 million compared to number of previous gen phone sold in same time period is another thing. 10 million compared to 10 million of previous gen phones that cost $30 less per S6 phone is another thing.

10 million S6 compared to the S5 which was considered a flop compared to S4 sales that Samsung is hoping to exceed with the S6 is also another thing.

There is not a lot of complaints about LG sales because sales in North American jumped 66 percent year-over-year.

So when you look at it from a historical view of past few years, Samsung, whose glass looked full a few years ago is now half empty. LG on the other hand who had little a few years ago their glass looks half full.

Since when is 10 million sold in a month a bad thing you guys are making way to much of this . Lg said they hope to sale 10 million g4 in a year . Don't here a lot of complaints about lg sales folks just love the glass half empty with samsung's products lot of hating going on

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[donm527]

Geez, imo you really can't use 3 year old article/data to use in todays phones. Three years ago I believe there were a ton of terrible phones out there. Last couple of years I think you can say the majority of phones in specs and in build quality have been the best ever which has probably contributed to samsungs headache in competition as much as iphone competition.

I remember reading it in a book about 18 months ago (can't recall the name off the top of my head) but here is an older report from 2011 saying the same thing:

Android’s Dirty Secret: Shipping Numbers Are Strong But Returns Are 30-40% | TechCrunch

 

[I Can Be Your Hero]

Since when is 10 million sold in a month a bad thing you guys are making way to much of this . Lg said they hope to sale 10 million g4 in a year . Don't here a lot of complaints about lg sales folks just love the glass half empty with samsung's products lot of hating going on

Posted via the Android Central App

It's not about hating Samsung (well, at least not for me). If I look at it from a business perspective then the S4 sold 10 million in less than a month, The S5 sold 11 million in a month and if the S6 sold 10 million in the first month, then there is a problem for Samsung. The company and investors expect year-on-year growth of their products. If the S5 sold 11 million in the first month, then the S6 is expected to sell more. Fair or unfair, reasonable or unreasonable, it doesn't matter - that's what the expectation is.

Sure, in a vacuum, selling 10 million of anything is a lot, but from a business perspective where you've been selling tens of millions of phones, and the trend is now starting to look downward, that's a problem for the company.

Yes it's more than LG expect to sell in a year, but if the G4 sales improve on the G3 sales, then to LG, their phone was successful.

From a consumer's standpoint - The S6 is a really good phone. What it sells in the first month/quarter/year, I don't really care about. I don't own shares in Samsung and all I care about is for them to product great products, which they have done.

 

[Aquila]

Investors want year over year revenue and profits, not units moved. Are the new Samsung's but the just expensive and profitable yet?

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

 

[berdinkerdickle]

It's not about hating Samsung (well, at least not for me). If I look at it from a business perspective then the S4 sold 10 million in less than a month, The S5 sold 11 million in a month and if the S6 sold 10 million in the first month, then there is a problem for Samsung. The company and investors expect year-on-year growth of their products. If the S5 sold 11 million in the first month, then the S6 is expected to sell more. Fair or unfair, reasonable or unreasonable, it doesn't matter - that's what the expectation is.

Sure, in a vacuum, selling 10 million of anything is a lot, but from a business perspective where you've been selling tens of millions of phones, and the trend is now starting to look downward, that's a problem for the company.

Yes it's more than LG expect to sell in a year, but if the G4 sales improve on the G3 sales, then to LG, their phone was successful.

From a consumer's standpoint - The S6 is a really good phone. What it sells in the first month/quarter/year, I don't really care about. I don't own shares in Samsung and all I care about is for them to product great products, which they have done.

I understand this.
It isn't about me thinking my phone is winning or losing, it's about where are the shareholders going to move their money. Money needed for Innovation.
Money to build us better phones.

 

[berdinkerdickle]

As far as Apple having less support issues; I actually assumed that was the case. It wasn't too hard for me to believe because of my experience with past laptops (even Dell) compared to my 17" MacBook Pro. I can't believe how many years I've had this thing and how enduring it is, how rock solid, ridiculously stable it is. Not one Hardware, not one software issue.
But then in another thread, NexusGirl says that the iPhone has its fair share of issues. Many threads in the iPhone forums.

 

[Laura Knotek]

I understand this.
It isn't about me thinking my phone is winning or losing, it's about where are the shareholders going to move their money. Money needed for Innovation.
Money to build us better phones.

I wonder if this is different with companies like LG and Samsung that are very diversified and make a lot more products than just phones, compared to companies like HTC that don't have any products other than phones. In other words, if phone sales are down but say TV sales are up, will they use the money from the TV sales to invest in R&D for better phones, in the hope of improving phone sales?

Disclaimer: I don't hold any stock in LG or Samsung, so I mentioned "TV sales" hypothetically. I don't know how their TVs are selling, but one could replace "TV" with any other product beside phones that is selling well.

 

[I Can Be Your Hero]

Investors want year over year revenue and profits, not units moved. Are the new Samsung's but the just expensive and profitable yet?

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

Sales drive revenue and profits though, so it's an important metric.

And if the sales aren't exactly what they're expecting, I could understand why Samsung are shying away from revealing the first month sales.

 

[Aquila]

Samsung and LG are HUGE and all over the tech industry. Mobile is important and Sony shows what happens when it isn't going well, but Samsung companies is in no danger from anything Apple or Lenovo or LG can do at their best. Sammy is in defense, software, chips, satellites, screens, laptops, televisions, video arts, cameras, vehicles, appliances and usually every device you get has something made by them. Not true for any other major player in the industry.

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Samsung and LG are HUGE and all over the tech industry. Mobile is important and Sony shows what happens when it isn't going well, but Samsung companies is in no danger from anything Apple or Lenovo or LG can do at their best. Sammy is in defense, software, chips, satellites, screens, laptops, televisions, video arts, cameras, vehicles, appliances and usually every device you get has something made by them. Not true for any other major player in the industry.

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

Samsung is definitely the most diversified. LG is second. Sony is the least diversified of the three.

 

[Aquila]

PlayStation 4 is better than all Samsung products put together lol (IMO)

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

 

[Techno-guy]

Investors want year over year revenue and profits, not units moved. Are the new Samsung's but the just expensive and profitable yet?

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

That's the issue...Samsung's mobile division profits dropped 57% in the last quarter due to poor S5 sales (in China alone Samsung went from 20 million in sales to 9.6 million). Samsung clearly needs the S6 to be an out of the park hit to recover from the S5 which sold far fewer phones (40% fewer) than the S4 before it.

 

[Aquila]

That's the issue...Samsung's mobile division profits dropped 57% in the last quarter due to poor S5 sales (in China alone Samsung went from 20 million in sales to 9.6 million). Samsung clearly needs the S6 to be an out of the park hit to recover from the S5 which sold far fewer phones (40% fewer) than the S4 before it.

One device isn't the game. The note is growing in popularity and Samsung has started cutting down the number of crappy budget devices they pour upon the world. Obviously that has an impact.

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

 

[Aquila]

This is funny because I have very little interest in Samsung and no interest in their phones, but sounds like I'm defending them. What I'm trying to say is that this Forbes article is FUD, and Samsung has no need or obligation to answer to their absurd claims.

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

 

[donm527]

I consider the Note their flagship at this point. That phone seem like their no compromise phone compared to the S6 with 2500mah battery, no sd slot and iphone looks. nothing wrong with iphone looks but you want a flagship thats stands out from the rest, you don't even faintly look like your competitors. Thats a sign of caving in. The Note stands out from the rest. If they make the Note 5 look like an overgrown 6+ that would be terrible.

One device isn't the game. The note is growing in popularity and Samsung has started cutting down the number of crappy budget devices they pour upon the world. Obviously that has an impact.

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator.

 

[donm527]

It's because you can't sell an Android phone with hardware specs alone that rival or best the iphones without being able to sell the UI that goes with it.

Every manufacturer customizes its Android with their own version of every basic app from email to camera, calendar to browser and even it's gallery and they all work differently. Even the Settings app is different from phone to phone where the brightness and volume controls can be in completely different locations from one phone to another. On top of that you have the manufacturers loading their own bloat on top of Android. And then on top of that you have the carriers adding their own bloat... like AT&T having a browser bar on top of my LG Internet browser :/ Its worse than OS fragmentation IMO.

You really have to be on top of your Android game to show a person each phone and, when asked, show them where the email or gallery app is and how to use it without fumbling and showing them how even a sales rep can have a hard time navigating through a phone and blow your sale. You show them an iPhone where a 3 year old can figure out the UI and the sale is made.

IMO, Google should force a pure android UI on all phones from all manufactures and carriers so that the user can have the same experience with Android the first time out of box and make it as basic as an iphone layout.

Then they can show them the magic of Android and offer their own versions of apps or alternative UIs like TW or Sense that they can download exclusively from their own app store or on google play and explore on their own from that point if they want to be all techy and different from the i-crowd or they can stay with the basic if they want plain jane.

For me the dealmaker going from iphone 4s to Android was having a pure Android experience with a Nexus 4. No bloat. From there I learned to love Android and move on to a LG G2 then a G3 being able to overlook the UI for hardware features.

But ask a sales rep about some features of an m9 or the motoX, and they just cringe at the thought of having to demonstrate the items. It's like they are lost and have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Phillip Pugh]

Sales drive revenue and profits though, so it's an important metric.

And if the sales aren't exactly what they're expecting, I could understand why Samsung are shying away from revealing the first month sales.

Samsung has never revealed it's sells figures that's been left up to the tech sites to speculate and to throw out headline grabbers . If you notice it wasn't samsung that said the s5 was a flop the media did . What we know is that there profits where down from the year before . Which may are may not be contributed by them having to cut prices to move products . Because that fact is they still sold hundreds of millions of phones . Most experts believe the s5 sells only looked lower because samsung up the products of the 5 by 20% over the 4 which means that they would have to sell 14 million more s5 . By my math looks like the s5 was hardly a flop . Now with the higher margins of profits that the s6 should generate because a 128 gig edge is $900 all they have to do is 50 million and the share holders will be dancing in the streets . Now for all you Samsung haters just hoping for their demise they're not going anywhere soon

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[I Can Be Your Hero]

Samsung has never revealed it's sells figures that's been left up to the tech sites to speculate and to throw out headline grabbers . If you notice it wasn't samsung that said the s5 was a flop the media did . What we know is that there profits where down from the year before . Which may are may not be contributed by them having to cut prices to move products . Because that fact is they still sold hundreds of millions of phones . Most experts believe the s5 sells only looked lower because samsung up the products of the 5 by 20% over the 4 which means that they would have to sell 14 million more s5 . By my math looks like the s5 was hardly a flop . Now with the higher margins of profits that the s6 should generate because a 128 gig edge is $900 all they have to do is 50 million and the share holders will be dancing in the streets . Now for all you Samsung haters just hoping for their demise they're not going anywhere soon

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Not true.

From Samsung themselves, 10 million Galaxy S4's in the first month: https://forums.androidcentral.com/e...newsrelease%26news_seq%3D20887&token=4Gai8siv

J.K. Shin tells WSJ the S5 sold 11 million in the first month: http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB...0001424052702304908304579561920434884250.html

So they have in the past officially stated sales either through their own publication or through credible news outlets like the Wall Street Journal. So its not like the figures are completely made up.

Also, a very minor percent would be purchasing the S6/S6E outright. The majority of consumers would be getting them on plans, so they wouldn't be making those monstrous profits that you're thinking just on outright sales. Most of the money is from sales on plans. Yes they still sold a truck load of Galaxy S5's, but if they sold less S5's than they did S4's then that would not be good for Samsung.

Another problem is on the low and mid-range phones where Chinese OEM's are rapidly starting to come up and are eating into Samsung's sales as well. So if the high end phones aren't selling as well as they'd like and the low end phone sales are being encroached by other OEM's, it's got to hurt Samsung. Is it doom and gloom for Samsung? No, of course not. Not yet anyway. But now is when they need to identify the issues and correct them otherwise soon enough losing profits quarter on quarter and will end up being posting losses. That's not a position any company wants to be in.

The question remains though, if they were so enthusiastic with revealing the Galaxy S4 and S5 first month sales, why haven't they come out with the first month Galaxy S6/6E sales?

Sent from my SM-G920I