DisplayMate gives the S8 the best screen rating of any smartphone

Adranalyne

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Same answer here. We don't yet know if that grade was rightfully earned and won't know until we have evidence. So pending that, it's just words. As soon as we know if it actually is or is not more accurate, we will know whether or not DisplayMate was correct or not.

You do know they include their testing and graphs in the article, right? It doesn't explicitly compare it to another phone, but if they included their testing and still grade it higher than any other smartphone, why is this being debated? I get that there could be some bias at work on their end and yes, Anandtech has less skin in the game, but the information is right there to compare to what they tested the iPhone on.
 

Aquila

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You do know they include their testing and graphs in the article, right? It doesn't explicitly compare it to another phone, but if they included their testing and still grade it higher than any other smartphone, why is this being debated? I get that there could be some bias at work on their end and yes, Anandtech has less skin in the game, but the information is right there to compare to what they tested the iPhone on.
Because we can't be expected to draw gridlines, estimate the results and calculate the average Delta accurately. None of us are qualified to do that. Display Mate didn't disclose the needed info, so we know nothing until we have that info.
 

Adranalyne

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Because we can't be expected to draw gridlines, estimate the results and calculate the average Delta accurately. None of us are qualified to do that. Display Mate didn't disclose the needed info, so we know nothing until we have that info.

You can discern quite a bit by actually reading the articles. In fact, the Galaxy S8 does not exceed the iPhone 7's record absolute color accuracy. So on that point, albeit only a fraction of what makes a good mobile display, the iPhone 7 is more accurate. As far as not being qualified to do so, I agree---none of us are. They are, though, and in the criteria they grade their mobile displays on, factoring in more than just accuracy, they gave the S8 the highest cumulative grade ever.
 

Aquila

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You can discern quite a bit by actually reading the articles. In fact, the Galaxy S8 does not exceed the iPhone 7's record absolute color accuracy. So on that point, albeit only a fraction of what makes a good mobile display, the iPhone 7 is more accurate. As far as not being qualified to do so, I agree---none of us are. They are, though, and in the criteria they grade their mobile displays on, factoring in more than just accuracy, they gave the S8 the highest cumulative grade ever.

Ok then your statement, if true, just proved the article title, DisplayMate and most of the people in this thread wrong. If the S8 is less accurate, then it is not worthy of an A+ or whatever that crap was (that's literally just not even a thing), it's not the best screen of any smartphone, etc, etc. I didn't know they had compared it to the iPhone 7 and found it lacking. The only reference I found to an iPhone was that they claim Apple is switching to OLED this year.
 

Adranalyne

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Ok then your statement, if true, just proved the article title, DisplayMate and most of the people in this thread wrong. If the S8 is less accurate, then it is not worthy of an A+ or whatever that crap was (that's literally just not even a thing), it's not the best screen of any smartphone, etc, etc. I didn't know they had compared it to the iPhone 7 and found it lacking. The only reference I found to an iPhone was that they claim Apple is switching to OLED this year.

So overall brightness means nothing? Certified for Mobile HDR Premium (can play content made for 4K TVs) means nothing? Power efficiency means nothing? A video enhancer that enables EDR for HDR-like content for videos that don't have HDR coding means nothing? There's a lot more to what makes a mobile display than just color accuracy. The customization alone tips the scale in Samsung's favor over Apple.

Accuracy is a very important part of what is needed to make a good mobile display. It doesn't dictate what display is the best.
 

Aquila

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So overall brightness means nothing? Certified for Mobile HDR Premium (can play content made for 4K TVs) means nothing? Power efficiency means nothing? A video enhancer that enables EDR for HDR-like content for videos that don't have HDR coding means nothing? There's a lot more to what makes a mobile display than just color accuracy. The customization alone tips the scale in Samsung's favor over Apple.

Accuracy is a very important part of what is needed to make a good mobile display. It doesn't dictate what display is the best.

As said any number of times, unless there is a major problem with the display, accuracy is the only metric of "best". And it is a series of measurements stated as an average delta from a value considered to be "perfect". So all the points measured, measure their distance from perfect, average that, best display will have the lowest number.

Major problems could include inappropriate resolution (1080p on a huge screen), inappropriate pixel configuration given the resulotion (the OnePlus 3 example), poor build quality, terrible power efficiency, etc. Mistakes or missteps by the OEM. Most of the things that are on your list are things that are custom software enhancements to the device that the display is paired with, not part of the display hardware/software configuration itself. They do enhance the viewing experience of some content, but they would do so regardless of the quality of the display, to a similar relative extent.

Power efficiency is the remaining topic, and that's still a mixed bag between LCD and OLED because too much is dependent on how much content is on the display, what color it is, etc - OLED's advantage is for mostly dark screens and there's still a tipping point where LCD becomes equally and then more efficient.

So if it is true that the iPhone 7 is still more accurate, the only reasonable conclusion is that it is still the best display out there. And we're not going to know the answer to that until we know the average delta measurements on grayscale, whitepoint and the respective color gamuts the device utilizes.
 

Adranalyne

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As said any number of times, unless there is a major problem with the display, accuracy is the only metric of "best". And it is a series of measurements stated as an average delta from a value considered to be "perfect". So all the points measured, measure their distance from perfect, average that, best display will have the lowest number.

Major problems could include inappropriate resolution (1080p on a huge screen), inappropriate pixel configuration given the resulotion (the OnePlus 3 example), poor build quality, terrible power efficiency, etc. Mistakes or missteps by the OEM. Most of the things that are on your list are things that are custom software enhancements to the device that the display is paired with, not part of the display hardware/software configuration itself. They do enhance the viewing experience of some content, but they would do so regardless of the quality of the display, to a similar relative extent.

Power efficiency is the remaining topic, and that's still a mixed bag between LCD and OLED because too much is dependent on how much content is on the display, what color it is, etc - OLED's advantage is for mostly dark screens and there's still a tipping point where LCD becomes equally and then more efficient.

So if it is true that the iPhone 7 is still more accurate, the only reasonable conclusion is that it is still the best display out there. And we're not going to know the answer to that until we know the average delta measurements on grayscale, whitepoint and the respective color gamuts the device utilizes.

No. Just no. We use these displays. They have functionality. How efficient they are, how customizable they are, how durable they are, how functional they are, and how accurate they are play a role in determining that. If you compile grades on all of those things, the S8 is superior to the iPhone 7.
 

Aquila

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No. Just no. We use these displays. They have functionality. How efficient they are, how customizable they are, how durable they are, how functional they are, and how accurate they are play a role in determining that. If you compile grades on all of those things, the S8 is superior to the iPhone 7.

Why are we trying to redefine "best display" into a subjective grab-bag of factors, many of which have nothing to do with the panel and associated software itself? In a way we seem to agree, if there is a major problem, such as build quality, inefficiency, etc. then that would take it out of the running. But those are binary, if this than that, else arguments, not additional criteria to throw into a mushy subjective critique.

As an example: If you had the world's most accurate display, but it was able to be deeply scratched by the cloth in your pockets - then that's not going to be the best display, because it is disqualified by the fact that it's made out of garbage. But if there is a group of displays at a satisfactory level of durability, efficiency, etc. (and there are, we're talking about them) then what is best is defined purely by what looks the best. And what looks the best is able to be measured as an average delta from known values - meaning it is not subjective, but a number. And those numbers can be compared to one another to provide a ranking. Lowest number wins, unless there is a disqualifying issue.

I think perhaps we should just fall back to the premise that humans can't tell the difference between these displays because it's really frustrating to try to over and over try to reach a consensus on the difference between subjectivity and objectivity, between preference and fact and between opinion and measurement. Regardless of any number of people choosing one thing over another or believing one thing over another, objective things, like accurate measurements, remain what they are. That's the entire point here.
 

Aquila

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No. Just no. We use these displays. They have functionality. How efficient they are, how customizable they are, how durable they are, how functional they are, and how accurate they are play a role in determining that. If you compile grades on all of those things, the S8 is superior to the iPhone 7.

As another example, the most durable, power efficient and shapable display, let's say PAMOLED (not sure if it's possible for that to be great or not, but let's pretend) - if there was a display rocking it out on all of these pretend categories - but it's display accuracy was garbage, that display is garbage. No question about it, no argument to be had. If it looks terrible, it is terrible and by association so is the device it is on. Let's use the Droid Turbo as that example.
 

Adranalyne

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As another example, the most durable, power efficient and shapable display, let's say PAMOLED (not sure if it's possible for that to be great or not, but let's pretend) - if there was a display rocking it out on all of these pretend categories - but it's display accuracy was garbage, that display is garbage. No question about it, no argument to be had. If it looks terrible, it is terrible and by association so is the device it is on. Let's use the Droid Turbo as that example.

Exactly. But when the accuracy is within such close proximity and almost everything else about it, down to how it functions as a mobile display and interacts with how you use it, is superior? If this was just a display we looked at and couldn't interact with, I'd probably be on your side. It isn't, though. We do use it, it does matter how those other things are graded, and collectively those things determine what is the better mobile display.
 

Aquila

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Exactly. But when the accuracy is within such close proximity and almost everything else about it, down to how it functions as a mobile display and interacts with how you use it, is superior? If this was just a display we looked at and couldn't interact with, I'd probably be on your side. It isn't, though. We do use it, it does matter how those other things are graded, and collectively those things determine what is the better mobile display.

I think you've moved into the glass covering the display but not sure. It could get weirder with things like 3D touch, etc, but that's still a heavy modification to what we've used for years for the best display, which has been closest to zero most accurate.
 

Adranalyne

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I think you've moved into the glass covering the display but not sure. It could get weirder with things like 3D touch, etc, but that's still a heavy modification to what we've used for years for the best display, which has been closest to zero most accurate.

I'm talking about how durable it is, how customizable it is, how it functions, how efficient it is, and how accurate it is. You keep bringing up other qualifiers like if something was severely wrong like power efficiency, THEN it would matter. Well if it matters at that point, it matters if it's more efficient, too. All those areas matter in grading the best mobile display. That's the point.
 

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I'm talking about how durable it is, how customizable it is, how it functions, how efficient it is, and how accurate it is. You keep bringing up other qualifiers like if something was severely wrong like power efficiency, THEN it would matter. Well if it matters at that point, it matters if it's more efficient, too. All those areas matter in grading the best mobile display. That's the point.

So are we going to create an algorithm that encompasses display properties (accuracy, we could throw efficiency here, but that's new) with subjective device properties and then create a weighting system to give us a final value of which device is best? Who will be proposing the weights? Who decides which metrics are included and which are not? Should objective measurements weigh more heavily than subjective values? When the algorithm is finished, if it disagrees with the subjective critique of display mate, will they be amending their methodologies to get in line with a newly defined mathematical method of assessing and ranking quality? I'm obviously playing devil's advocate here - because what this proposition is, is essentially what they did, with no reason to do so (we already had a methodology that works wonderfully) nor any justification to user their made up processes over any other set of made up processes.
 

Adranalyne

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So are we going to create an algorithm that encompasses display properties (accuracy, we could throw efficiency here, but that's new) with subjective device properties and then create a weighting system to give us a final value of which device is best? Who will be proposing the weights? Who decides which metrics are included and which are not? Should objective measurements weigh more heavily than subjective values? When the algorithm is finished, if it disagrees with the subjective critique of display mate, will they be amending their methodologies to get in line with a newly defined mathematical method of assessing and ranking quality? I'm obviously playing devil's advocate here - because what this proposition is, is essentially what they did, with no reason to do so (we already had a methodology that works wonderfully) nor any justification to user their made up processes over any other set of made up processes.

They test a wide variety of display properties, incorporate how they function on a mobile device, and grade those areas accordingly. I feel like you should probably visit the website and get familiar with what they do. That said, they aren't the be-all end-all of display grading or anything. It's pretty evident that you see this as numbers and take subjectivity out of it almost completely. If the display is more accurate, because we can quantify that, then it must be better. We can't quantify most of the other things so they shouldn't have any bearing on this. I would agree with that if we weren't talking about mobile displays, but we are.

Customization is how the OEM utilizes the display. You can't alter the resolution of the iPhone 7. You can on the S8. You can't alter the color balance on the iPhone 7. You can on the S8. You can't alter display modes on the iPhone 7. You can on the S8. The S8 can achieve a higher max brightness and kicks in if you're in direct sunlight. The iPhone 7 does not do that, nor can it get that bright. These are things, either done automatically or by the user, that can affect how you use the display, how efficient it is, and how accurate/inaccurate it is.
 

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Customization is how the OEM utilizes the display. You can't alter the resolution of the iPhone 7. You can on the S8. You can't alter the color balance on the iPhone 7. You can on the S8. You can't alter display modes on the iPhone 7. You can on the S8. The S8 can achieve a higher max brightness and kicks in if you're in direct sunlight. The iPhone 7 does not do that, nor can it get that bright. These are things, either done automatically or by the user, that can affect how you use the display, how efficient it is, and how accurate/inaccurate it is.

Ok, thanks I kinda thought this is what you were referring to. On iOS display modes handle them selves because iOS has OS level color management. So they type of content dictates which mode is used, meaning you're always getting the best possible combination. Android is getting that in Android O. Personally I prefer it that way than having to choose it myself HOWEVER, a big caveat there, is that most of the best displays on Android do not have the most accurate display mode selected for the UI in general as a default setting and many of them require the user to go into display settings or even developer settings to make the correction. If that isn't corrected in Android O (right now on the preview that setting is still in the developer options), then the option needs to remain accessible to the user.
 

Adranalyne

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Ok, thanks I kinda thought this is what you were referring to. On iOS display modes handle them selves because iOS has OS level color management. So they type of content dictates which mode is used, meaning you're always getting the best possible combination. Android is getting that in Android O. Personally I prefer it that way than having to choose it myself HOWEVER, a big caveat there, is that most of the best displays on Android do not have the most accurate display mode selected for the UI in general as a default setting and many of them require the user to go into display settings or even developer settings to make the correction. If that isn't corrected in Android O (right now on the preview that setting is still in the developer options), then the option needs to remain accessible to the user.

The point is that you may not find the most accurate colors to be the most aesthetically pleasing. Being able to change that at any time to your own preference is very helpful. Being able to customize your resolution to optimize battery life is also very helpful. On the S8, you can also edit the color balance to your own liking as well.
 

Aquila

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The point is that you may not find the most accurate colors to be the most aesthetically pleasing.

This is one of the things that we argue about on camera shootouts too. Some reviewers will routinely say, "X was more accurate, but Iliked Y more". That reviewer is absolutely entitled to their own opinions and to like what they like and whatever, but in displays and in cameras, whatever is most accurate is actually the better device. A display and a camera both have the same job in this respect - to create the most perfectly accurate representation of the input as possible. If users want to change it from there, totally cool that's up to them. But the default functionality = as accurate as possible. This is why most accurate = best.
 

Adranalyne

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This is one of the things that we argue about on camera shootouts too. Some reviewers will routinely say, "X was more accurate, but Iliked Y more". That reviewer is absolutely entitled to their own opinions and to like what they like and whatever, but in displays and in cameras, whatever is most accurate is actually the better device. A display and a camera both have the same job in this respect - to create the most perfectly accurate representation of the input as possible. If users want to change it from there, totally cool that's up to them. But the default functionality = as accurate as possible. This is why most accurate = best.

In this instance, regardless of the differences in accuracy that can be measured, who's going to be able to tell? This isn't some landslide blowout on the Apple side to the point where it's immediately noticeable. At this point, all I could confirm is that on their absolute color accuracy test, the iPhone has the record. That doesn't mean that other tests regarding accuracy overall aren't in the S8's favor. What I can say is that devoid of all of that, considering how close it would be on either side, the other factors play heavily on which one performs better overall. That goes to the S8. Having choices on how you want your display to act is better than not having them at all.
 

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