11-26-2019 01:15 PM
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  1. mustang7757's Avatar
    The same readers that support the chips also support tap to pay (NFC) and magstripe. Speaking strictly of the US market, the merchant's incentive to support chip payments is based on the liability shift from the banks to the merchants that don't support chip. That same liability shift doesn't include tap to pay.

    So, even though tap to pay via smartphone is even more secure than chip transaction via physical card, there is no financial incentive to support NFC payments.

    In some cases, merchants (and banks) are actively competing against tap to pay because they're trying to push their own payment systems based on a different methodology (like camera-based QR codes, etc.). If those merchants could, they'd shut off both NFC and magstripe payments. But magstripe is too ubiquitous to eliminate just yet. They'd alienate too many customers if they didn't accept a card swipe. So, Samsung Pay can capitalize on that situation with its MST tech.

    Yes, eventually magstripe will go away. It already has in some other markets outside the US, where chip payments, tap to pay, and things like cashless and mobile payments via WeChat Pay and AliPay (see China) have taken over. The US is way behind the rest of the world when it comes to payment tech.
    I agree there , I'm not sure why the US is behind in that regard.
    11-25-2019 01:17 PM
  2. Insp_Gadget's Avatar
    I agree there , I'm not sure why the US is behind in that regard.
    Simple answer: the American businessman is short-sighted and greedy. He thinks only about short term profit margins and quarterly stock prices. He yields to investor demand for improving stock price.

    Less important to him is longterm investment or actually serving the best interests of customers. He couldn't care less if a customer gets ripped off due to fraudulent transactions or a data spillage from a retailer, as long as it doesn't impact the company bottom line (and therefore his own pocketbook).

    It all boils down to money. Innovative technology always takes a back seat to profit margins, regardless of how beneficial it may be to the common man. If this were not true, we would all be driving renewable energy powered cars, have phones with batteries that last months instead of hours, and would have eliminated fossil fuel usage years ago.
    11-25-2019 01:29 PM
  3. Mike Dee's Avatar
    The same readers that support the chips also support tap to pay (NFC) and magstripe. Speaking strictly of the US market, the merchant's incentive to support chip payments is based on the fraud liability shift from the banks to the merchants that don't support chip. That same liability shift doesn't include tap to pay.

    So, even though tap to pay via smartphone is even more secure than chip transaction via physical card, there is no financial incentive to support NFC payments.

    In some cases, merchants (and banks) are actively competing against tap to pay because they're trying to push their own payment systems based on a different methodology (like camera-based QR codes, etc.). If those merchants could, they'd shut off both NFC and magstripe payments. But magstripe is too ubiquitous to eliminate just yet. They'd alienate too many customers if they didn't accept a card swipe. So, Samsung Pay can capitalize on that situation with its MST tech.

    Yes, eventually magstripe will go away. It already has in some other markets outside the US, where chip payments, tap to pay, and things like cashless and mobile payments via WeChat Pay and AliPay (see China) have taken over. The US is way behind the rest of the world when it comes to payment tech.
    There are some mag readers that support chips but not tap to pay. In other places like the New York City Subway system, tap to pay is already implemented in many stations and their mag reader only accepts transit cards.
    11-25-2019 01:52 PM
  4. mustang7757's Avatar
    Simple answer: the American businessman is short-sighted and greedy. He thinks only about short term profit margins and quarterly stock prices. He yields to investor demand for improving stock price.

    Less important to him is longterm investment or actually serving the best interests of customers. He couldn't care less if a customer gets ripped off due to fraudulent transactions or a data spillage from a retailer, as long as it doesn't impact the company bottom line (and therefore his own pocketbook).

    It all boils down to money. Innovative technology always takes a back seat to profit margins, regardless of how beneficial it may be to the common man. If this were not true, we would all be driving renewable energy powered cars, have phones with batteries that last months instead of hours, and would have eliminated fossil fuel usage years ago.
    Yeah can see that , especially big cooperations.
    11-25-2019 02:03 PM
  5. Insp_Gadget's Avatar
    There are some mag readers that support chips but not tap to pay. In other places like the New York City Subway system, tap to pay is already implemented in many stations and their mag reader only accepts transit cards.
    Only because the merchants that purchased those readers opted to omit the NFC part of the reader (which, in any modern reader capable of chip payments, is an available option). In fact, most new readers come with it as part of the architecture. It just has to be activated via the terminal's software or firmware.
    11-25-2019 02:03 PM
  6. Mike Dee's Avatar
    Only because the merchants that purchased those readers opted to omit the NFC part of the reader (which, in any modern reader capable of chip payments, is an available option). In fact, most new readers come with it as part of the architecture. It just has to be activated via the terminal's software or firmware.
    Thats not the case in every situation. There are plenty of terminals out there that are legacy that predates NFC.
    11-25-2019 02:08 PM
  7. Insp_Gadget's Avatar
    Thats not the case in every situation. There are plenty of terminals out there that are legacy that predates NFC.
    We're not talking about legacy mag readers that pre-date chip and NFC payments. We're talking about the mandated chip-reading readers that merchants have to use now to avoid liability in the event of fraudulent transactions. These readers all have NFC capabilities in their architecture. The merchants simply chose not to deploy it (either by omitting the NFC module that mounts to the top of the unit or, for integrated units, simply not turning it on in software).

    If merchants want to take the chance of assuming liability for fraud by holding on to legacy mag readers that don't accept chip payments (and by extension NFC payments), that's on them. The point is, it's an option they chose not to activate, for whatever reason.
    11-25-2019 02:24 PM
  8. Mike Dee's Avatar
    We're not talking about legacy mag readers that pre-date chip and NFC payments. We're talking about the mandated chip-reading readers that merchants have to use now to avoid liability in the event of fraudulent transactions. These readers all have NFC capabilities in their architecture. The merchants simply chose not to deploy it (either by omitting the NFC module that mounts to the top of the unit or, for integrated units, simply not turning it on in software).

    If merchants want to take the chance of assuming liability for fraud by holding on to legacy mag readers that don't accept chip payments (and by extension NFC payments), that's on them. The point is, it's an option they chose not to activate, for whatever reason.
    Actually we were. I said there were readers out there that supported chips but not tap to pay.Samsung Pay is still blowing minds-screenshot_20191125-144318.jpeg
    11-25-2019 02:46 PM
  9. Insp_Gadget's Avatar
    Actually we were. I said there were readers out there that supported chips but not tap to pay.Click image for larger version. 

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    You said "mag readers". I was actually talking about chip readers. Sorry for the confusion. Regardless, the fact is that those legacy readers that pre-date NFC are old equipment that merchants have chosen not to upgrade. And in so doing, they are taking the chance that if there is fraud committed through card swipe because someone cloned a mag stripe card, the merchant now has to assume the liability for it.

    My point was all the modern readers support NFC, so anyone that is using one of those has no excuse for not supporting NFC. Those that haven't upgraded their equipment to avoid liability are becoming more rare. Yes, there are plenty still out there, but they are becoming the exception instead of the rule.

    If there are any chip readers out there that don't support NFC, I haven't heard of or seen them in stores. It's been pretty established that the manufacturers of these card readers have streamlined their products to all support NFC because the system chipsets all have the support built in. It doesn't make sense for them to buy and maintain multiple chipsets for the readers they sell, when one chipset can support all functions.
    Attached Thumbnails Samsung Pay is still blowing minds-9579.jpg  
    11-25-2019 03:11 PM
  10. SpookDroid's Avatar
    Just as a reminder, though, MST is no longer a Samsung exclusive. LG has licensed the tech, too, as have a couple other companies that don't make phones but do make credit card 'replacements' (although, granted, most of these either haven't taken off or are still trying to on kickstarter).
    11-26-2019 10:52 AM
  11. Insp_Gadget's Avatar
    Just as a reminder, though, MST is no longer a Samsung exclusive. LG has licensed the tech, too, as have a couple other companies that don't make phones but do make credit card 'replacements' (although, granted, most of these either haven't taken off or are still trying to on kickstarter).
    I have not heard of it being licensed out to anyone. That would seem to be counterproductive of Samsung to allow competitors to use its tech. Do you have a source for this? I'd be curious to know who licensed it.
    11-26-2019 11:56 AM
  12. me just saying's Avatar
    LG is using their own versions of mst called wmc. basically does the same thing by reading magnetic strips. I don't think it is licensed from samsung.
    11-26-2019 12:23 PM
  13. SpookDroid's Avatar
    https://www.xda-developers.com/lg-pa...ents-us-lg-g8/

    As stated above, not the same licensed tech from Samsung, but same function licensed from other devs, like the ones making digital credit cards.
    11-26-2019 12:24 PM
  14. Insp_Gadget's Avatar
    https://www.xda-developers.com/lg-pa...ents-us-lg-g8/

    As stated above, not the same licensed tech from Samsung, but same function licensed from other devs, like the ones making digital credit cards.
    Cool. I learned something. I have heard of LG Pay, but dismissed it as just another wannabe. I didn't know they had an MST-like tech behind it. I wonder how many US banks work with it. I've never seen anyone talk about using it.
    11-26-2019 01:10 PM
  15. Mike Dee's Avatar
    https://www.xda-developers.com/lg-pa...ents-us-lg-g8/

    As stated above, not the same licensed tech from Samsung, but same function licensed from other devs, like the ones making digital credit cards.
    Great to hear it may be making its way to other devices. I don't mind owning a Samsung device but I hate being limited to one brand because of that feature.
    me just saying likes this.
    11-26-2019 01:15 PM
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