Does anyone ever see Google trying to improve fragmentation?

[whippingboy]

Sigh...

I understand what Open Source means... but do you think the MILLIONS of people buying an android phone knows exactly what that means? Go from a stock Android device like the OG droid to the Droid X (hey it's still Moto right?) and you may walk away confused... as a user due to the motoblur(ish) interface. Try LG or Samsung- and their slapped on launcher confuses people further. NOW add in inconsistent screen resolutions like the droid pro or the lower end android phones- and go talk to a MAJOR game developer and ASK THEM what they think of THAT and Android.

How about the recent interview with EPIC Games' Jay Wilbur about game development on IOS compared to Android - you can google it in minutes- it's a pretty major statement coming from Epic when they say hardware AND the google marketplace is fragmented compared to iOS from a dev's point of view: "iOS just works". Does that mean we can't expect Epic games on Android? What if other major devs begin to feel the same?

I came from Web OS because I saw most devs weren't coming to the platform and certain aspects of the OS were hands off much like IOS. I come to Android only to find ZERO consistency across handsets. Why didn't the Galaxy S natively support VCF files until 2.2? (Something Palm has done since the 1990's?!) Why can carriers, and device manufacturers apply their own means to access core functionality of the phone like contacts and calendar- yet on iphone they cannot- yet they're still able to offer a subsidized phone?

Everyone says HTC supports the user the best- and I'd have to agree- they seem to ADD missing features rather than offer poor alternatives- but I hate how widgets are tied to the launcher of all phones and I really want a 5x5 layout and I hate the sense dock- so I have to choose between a useless dock and unnecessary waste of space (4x4 layout on a 4.3" phone) or go without all those helpful widgets they give you. At Least on HTC you get PC sync, backup options, more robust Exchange support than even native android, a better webbrowser etc... but why must I only get this value added from HTC?

To say the "android experience" isn't fragmented from both a consumer and developer standpoint is frankly IGNORANT and there's no sign of it improving.

Unfortunately, you're forced to choose- either go closed like WP7 and iphone, or go "open" with Android and put up with it's quirks.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

If its not up to Google, who's responsible for the Nexus devices?

As I said, be mad at Google for the N1 taking extra time. I wish they would release it buggy and not working well, then update it when it's better, but I don't make that decision. So I took an hour and did it myself. Since others have done it and were nice enough to share their work, you can do it in even less time.

But you're not going to be very happy with the phone stack or camera, because they don't work very well.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

If its not up to Google, who's responsible for the Nexus devices?

In terms of updates, aren't they the first?

 

[markot86]

I think what many people forget is that android as an OS is still in its infancy. Google decoupled a lot of the core programs from the OS in 2.2 because they wanted to be able to update them on a piece by piece basis, and I suspect that as the OS matures they will do more things like this so that they can further update the functional parts of the OS without carriers and manufacturers needing to step in.

I'm also really sick of people putting iOS on a pedestal and saying that it isn't fragmented. I was at one time an owner of an iphone 3g, and even before ios 4 came out and broke it, I was constantly frustrated by how more and more "apps" were coded with the iphone 3gs in mind, leaving legacy users in the dust.

When iOS 4 came out and ruined the phone, it took months for apple to fix the issue, and even with the "fixed" version, crucial features like multitasking were never ported over. Sure, from an OS standpoint I was on the same version as all of the fancy iphone 4's, but functionally the phone felt no different than it did when I originally got it. It'd be as if the epic got upgraded to 2.2 or 2.3, but they disabled all of the added bonuses in these updates.

 

[vansmack]

I think the one thing Google could do is work to make sure at least one Nexus device is available on every carrier so we can truly vote with our wallets. I would get a Nexus device in a heartbeat if it were available on Sprint.

Otherwise, yep, blame the carriers and manufacturers, not Google.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

I think the one thing Google could do is work to make sure at least one Nexus device is available on every carrier so we can truly vote with our wallets. I would get a Nexus device in a heartbeat if it were available on Sprint.

Otherwise, yep, blame the carriers and manufacturers, not Google.

Agreed... but I suspect that the carriers have final say in that. At least, I think so.

 

[dchawk81]

Life would be rather boring if all phones were identical. It's not fragmentation...it's consumer choice.

 

[estebancam]

Wow. I can't believe people are actually saying Android is not fragmented....

Look, I like Android and all.... but the FACT is that it is fragmented. Enough said. It is an issue that i think google needs to solve somehow. They need to make it easier for manufacturers to update the software on their hardware in order to for the market to be more straight-forward. I suppose that Android has to be fragmented since it is a free system, but I think it could be handled better than what it is now.

I don't like the extreme amount of fragmentation. I deal with it, yes. But I don't really like it.

I don't know. Depending on what HP says on Feb 9th, I may or may not purchase an Android device in the near future. Nothing is better than webOS.

 

[jrdatrackstar1223]

Wow. I can't believe people are actually saying Android is not fragmented....

Look, I like Android and all.... but the FACT is that it is fragmented. Enough said. It is an issue that i think google needs to solve somehow. They need to make it easier for manufacturers to update the software on their hardware in order to for the market to be more straight-forward. I suppose that Android has to be fragmented since it is a free system, but I think it could be handled better than what it is now.

I don't like the extreme amount of fragmentation. I deal with it, yes. But I don't really like it.

I don't know. Depending on what HP says on Feb 9th, I may or may not purchase an Android device in the near future. Nothing is better than webOS.

thank you. it is a topic that has been covered extensively, and even Andy Rubin himself spoke on it in an interview without saying it was coined by Apple (although it was, he still acknowledges the fact that SOMETHING IS WRONG). now his REASONING is the same as others have mentioned.....that Android is open, evolving fast, and is trying to meet the needs of different consumers....blah blah blah. however, he DOESN'T mention why so many android phones don't even meet a 6 MONTH lifespan before being forgotten about. yes, it is the nature of technology for a device to be old FAST, but that argument is more reserved for the HARDWARE (i.e. an Xbox 360 was technically OLD like 3 months after it was commercially available because something bigger and better was being built, but it still receives UPDATES to this day).

look at the original droid for example...how old is that phone? why does it STILL receive updates faster than MUCH MORE POWERFUL android devices? well, we all know the reason, and it is a clear case-and-point example of what I and everyone else are saying...

you don't like the term "fragmentation"?...fine...

i'll just ask "why are so many customers getting screwed while Google is pretending nothing wrong is happening?"; feel better......?

even a non technie consumer will know something is up...and they won't NEED a term for it; they'll just say "hey...I have an android phone and so do you. why does your android do stuff mine can't? the people at sprint said my phone would be able to do that (w/e thing) like your phone, but mine doesn't..." does Google not realize this?

and I can read very well....thank you......

Google shouldn't be ALL to blame....but if they are seeing ONE PENNY of my money from software they've written then they share SOME responsibility...point, blank, period. palm had NO PROBLEM updating their phones on a MONTHLY basis. though they were mostly bug-fixes to make the device what it SHOULD have been from the start, they were still large files (200 MB range). and yes, the Pre was written with a COMPLETELY different set tools and languages, but they still had to support the Pre AND Pixi (different screen size, processor, etc...). and you know what....they're STILL updating their phones (with them being dead and gone and making them NO MONEY)...and that is WITH Sprint bloatware, Verizon bloatware, and ATT bloatware. and last time I checked, webOS is probably the LEAST tied down operating system as far as being free and open.

look at all the Linux distributions for example.....does that software get delivered to Acer, Dell, HP, and whoever else makes computers and laptops for their bloatware testing? no.....they simply offer it to you for a download if you want it. no, they don't make money from these companies who produce the hardware, but that is because it is OPEN SOURCE. when you put those distributions on your computer, you go and get the drivers and whatever else yourself. google bought android and delivered it pretty much standard on all initial devices at first. if they wanted to branch out to different companies to throw crap on it to "deliver more user friendly experiences in various forms" or w/e then fine.....let companies do that as a SEPERATE download, just like there are seperate downloads for Fedora. technically, the company could say "there is an update available to receive a more robust Android experience" what if I liked Android for what it already was? cool.....i can leave my phone the way it is and receive updates. THAT is more open source and giving users a choice. is the way they're delivering Android right now a smart, cash-cow business model? absolutely. but don't say Android is TRUE open source when it's really not. the only real difference between Android NOW and iOS or Windows Phone 7 is that I don't have to root or jailbreak my device to do more things. after you root an iPhone, you basically have what Google is portraying Android as with a different OS on top lol.

what they are doing now is more APPLE-LIKE than anything. yea, they're not forcing you to ONE device and ONE OS, but they are basically FORCING YOU to go through this crap if you want to use Android period.....

 

[Tre Lawrence]

JR, I think the point being made, is that technically, Google doesn't see your money (at least directly... those ad dollars come from us one way or another).

Google has chosen a method of business that differs from others. They spit out software, and spit out updates. IMHO, they do a decent job of updates.

Now, the folks we really are in business with (the carriers and/or manufacturers, depending on which of them you ask)) create a bottleneck.

Palm has do things differently... and I could argue that a bug fix is not a true update, but that is semantics. Contrast that with Apple, that sits pretty, and only spits out an update once a year. They can do that; Palm has to keep up the facade (IMHO) of progress.

Anyhoo, I guess the moral of the story is this: pick your carrier carefully. When it comes to post-sale support, not all are created equal. The most important aspect of mobile technology isn't the device or OS, IMHO... it's the provider of the contract.

Carrier first!

 

[jrdatrackstar1223]

JR, I think the point being made, is that technically, Google doesn't see your money (at least directly... those ad dollars come from us one way or another).

Google has chosen a method of business that differs from others. They spit out software, and spit out updates. IMHO, they do a decent job of updates.

Now, the folks we really are in business with (the carriers and/or manufacturers, depending on which of them you ask)) create a bottleneck.

Palm has do things differently... and I could argue that a bug fix is not a true update, but that is semantics. Contrast that with Apple, that sits pretty, and only spits out an update once a year. They can do that; Palm has to keep up the facade (IMHO) of progress.

Anyhoo, I guess the moral of the story is this: pick your carrier carefully. When it comes to post-sale support, not all are created equal. The most important aspect of mobile technology isn't the device or OS, IMHO... it's the provider of the contract.

Carrier first!

point well taken.....

 

[sanman]

A Sprint Customer Service Manager (on Sunday) tried to placate me by saying *maybe* the Nexus will be coming to Sprint, so we would then deal directly with Google for updates. Frankly, as long as Google loses control of Android to handset manufacturers and carriers, everyone suffers.

As bad as it is not to have access to OS updates in a timely manner, the part that really blows my mind is that the ability to delete crapware is not a standard feature. Remember the days when Dell took heat for all the crapware they loaded on their PCs? Even though it was a hassle, at least you could delete the stuff without resorting to hacks. Who can possibly think that forcing me to retain "NASCAR" or "Asphalt 5" is a good idea?

We'll see how many Android users come back for a second round. Unless something fundamentally changes, I'll consider alternatives.

 

[caliskimmer]

Are CM7 Nightlies up on the Epic? I have the Evo and I have the latest Android OS (I believe 2.3.2) build up and running. If you guys do and are comfortable with rooting, then this may help.

By the way, Android is not completely open source, but WebOS is.

 

[Andrew Ruffolo]

Are CM7 Nightlies up on the Epic? I have the Evo and I have the latest Android OS (I believe 2.3.2) build up and running. If you guys do and are comfortable with rooting, then this may help.

By the way, Android is not completely open source, but WebOS is.

**Rolls Eyes** Did you hear that from the morons at Precentral (thank god I never have to go to that fanboy site ever again). Please look up the true meaning of open source, as Android as an OS IS 100% open. The crapware that carriers and manufacturers put on it, isn't, big different. I can download the source code for all versions of android, and put it on any device (iphone, been done. I don't see a WebOS iPhone).

2nd, no, CM7 isn't available, our lazy ass developers refuse to reverse engineer drivers, so we don't even have a fully functional CM6 (no MMS, FFC (in the camera app), other misc. crap). I don't see why my Hero can run GB in less than 24h after being released and our designated CyanogenMod developer Noobnl can't even get CM6 to work properly. Last I checked, the Hero never got an official Froyo (and never will). Part of our problem is our community is nothing but a bunch of whiners. Hell, even noobnl is a whiner, he calls his latest CM6 beta release "Samsung Korea is Cruel"