04-09-2012 01:18 PM
30 12
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  1. TomD's Avatar
    What a pain in the *** rooting in Android is. Just tried the supposedly new and safe root method on galaxys2root.com. Does not work on 2.3.6.

    Apparently rooting methods require exploiting some vulnerability in Android. Android is said to be so open. Why then do we have to break in to obtain root access?

    I would rate Android as just as closed as iOS. At least in obtaining root access.

    My Palm Pre only required a password to gain root access.

    Longing for the good ole days, sigh.
    04-01-2012 06:10 AM
  2. AlphaTango414's Avatar
    What a pain in the *** rooting in Android is. Just tried the supposedly new and safe root method on galaxys2root.com. Does not work on 2.3.6.

    Apparently rooting methods require exploiting some vulnerability in Android. Android is said to be so open. Why then do we have to break in to obtain root access?

    I would rate Android as just as closed as iOS. At least in obtaining root access.

    My Palm Pre only required a password to gain root access.

    Longing for the good ole days, sigh.
    I got some good lols... Thanks for the laughs. Give it time and there will be root. Its called hacking for a reason.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
    NukieFreak and fofjjsr like this.
    04-01-2012 06:26 AM
  3. twiktor's Avatar
    Thats so weird . . my name is Tom, and I live in Vegas. But I am not VegasTom
    04-01-2012 08:43 AM
  4. CandleStick69's Avatar
    I'm from Vegas too! my name is Thomas though:/
    04-01-2012 01:09 PM
  5. TomD's Avatar
    We could start the Android Tom from Vegas club
    04-01-2012 01:15 PM
  6. TWC_SouthPhilly's Avatar
    What a pain in the *** rooting in Android is. Just tried the supposedly new and safe root method on galaxys2root.com. Does not work on 2.3.6.

    Apparently rooting methods require exploiting some vulnerability in Android. Android is said to be so open. Why then do we have to break in to obtain root access?

    I would rate Android as just as closed as iOS. At least in obtaining root access.

    My Palm Pre only required a password to gain root access.

    Longing for the good ole days, sigh.
    What!!!!!

    Do you even have an Android device m8!?!?

    If ya do... Try this thread for your routing wants...

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/sho....php?p=1609925

    Or slide over to XDA they'll have you covered there to.

    Sent to you from my SGS2 Class Star Fighter.
    04-01-2012 06:06 PM
  7. atl10pnr's Avatar
    It was really easy to get into what was called developer mode. All that had to be done was one of 2 things. Type in webos20090606 . Or the fun way which was the Konami Code . By typeing
    upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart
    04-02-2012 02:42 AM
  8. ragnarokx's Avatar
    What a pain in the *** rooting in Android is. Just tried the supposedly new and safe root method on galaxys2root.com. Does not work on 2.3.6.

    Apparently rooting methods require exploiting some vulnerability in Android. Android is said to be so open. Why then do we have to break in to obtain root access?

    I would rate Android as just as closed as iOS. At least in obtaining root access.

    My Palm Pre only required a password to gain root access.

    Longing for the good ole days, sigh.

    It was really easy to get into what was called developer mode. All that had to be done was one of 2 things. Type in webos20090606 . Or the fun way which was the Konami Code . By typeing
    upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart
    Android is open - basically the entire source code for each OS is available for download from Google.

    Google also designed Android to be rooted easily. Plug phone into computer, type fastboot oem unlock, and done. Copy superuser.apk to your system folder and you're ready to play with root goodies. This is how Google designs the phones it has direct control over (Nexus line). The reason you have to find an exploit to root other phones is because the manufacturer designed them like that - in this case, Samsung.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
    fofjjsr and NukieFreak like this.
    04-02-2012 02:57 AM
  9. fofjjsr's Avatar
    Is this a troll post? Android as closed as WebOS? Seriously?

    Sent from my Epic 4g Touch using Tapatalk.
    04-02-2012 01:29 PM
  10. caddyman#AC's Avatar
    Took all of 5 minutes to root and I'm no phone guru!!

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
    04-02-2012 02:38 PM
  11. TomD's Avatar
    Android is open - basically the entire source code for each OS is available for download from Google.

    Google also designed Android to be rooted easily. Plug phone into computer, type fastboot oem unlock, and done. Copy superuser.apk to your system folder and you're ready to play with root goodies. This is how Google designs the phones it has direct control over (Nexus line). The reason you have to find an exploit to root other phones is because the manufacturer designed them like that - in this case, Samsung.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
    It is ridiculous to have to have change the ROM to get root. Since we are on a non-google phone we have to break in just like and iPhone.

    This is not what I call open.
    04-02-2012 03:01 PM
  12. TomD's Avatar
    What!!!!!

    Do you even have an Android device m8!?!?

    If ya do... Try this thread for your routing wants...

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/sho....php?p=1609925

    Or slide over to XDA they'll have you covered there to.

    Sent to you from my SGS2 Class Star Fighter.
    Do all of the root methods leave you in the lurch when it comes to OTA updates?
    04-02-2012 03:03 PM
  13. JayWill's Avatar
    Do all of the root methods leave you in the lurch when it comes to OTA updates?
    Only if you modify your ROM, kernel, modem, recovery, or system applications. So ...

    Flash a custom ROM - OTA update will fail
    Flash a custom kernel - OTA update will fail
    Flash custom recovery like CWM - OTA update will fail
    Flash a different modem than the current official - OTA update will fail
    Remove bloatware like Sprint ID - OTA update will (probably) fail

    If you just root your phone, just to run Apps that require root for example, then OTA updates can be installed just fine (edit - how many times can I say "just" in the same sentence? geez!), but remove root in the process, requiring you to re-root if you choose to do so. If you do modify any of the above, flashing back to full stock in order to take an OTA update is quite easy using Odin so its mostly a non-issue. However, the full update is usually available to flash before the update even goes live, so it usually makes more sense to just flash that then go back to stock.

    As has already been stated since your post, Android is as open as it gets. It's the device manufacturers and carriers that lock the system down, for a variety of reasons that all have to do with maximizing profits. Flashing phones = more warranty claims and service calls which cut into those profit margins. Samsung Android phones are actually a bit more "open" than say HTC or Motorola phones as Samsung does not lock down the bootloader. REAL exploits like Revolutionary S-Off and others normally overcome this issue, but this phone is technically a bit more open than others.

    The current root method that is linked in this thread really does pass the caveman test.
    04-02-2012 03:47 PM
  14. jeff1974w's Avatar
    It was really easy to get into what was called developer mode. All that had to be done was one of 2 things. Type in webos20090606 . Or the fun way which was the Konami Code . By typeing
    upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart
    actually it up, down, up, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, select, start
    04-02-2012 06:36 PM
  15. Thedonkeyshow808's Avatar
    I kinda understand what the op is trying to say, coming from a palm pre.
    But hardware and specs just sucked. The phone simply couldn't keep up.
    Biggnaa20 likes this.
    04-02-2012 11:35 PM
  16. Biggnaa20's Avatar
    As a webOS refugee, I can understand exactly what the OP is trying to say, even if an Android forum might not the be the place to find sympathy likened to a failed operating system.

    With the underpowered palm pre and its successors, I didn't HAVE to flash a new rom to change things. I could just patch certain aspects of the OS adding options or changing the GUI or pretty much anything else. If I didn't like what I just did, I could change it back. All of my files, and settings would still be intact.

    All of this could be done over the air through the wonders of Preware and webOS internals. You only had to connect to the computer once (to set up the Preware relationship) after that, I could root, overclock, theme, add features from the handset. No Odin or factory reset needed.

    webOS and Palm failed. But everyone here should hope that we can get Android "hacking" to be as simple, intuitive and easy as it was on webOS.

    nnb
    BiGsMiLeSKyLe likes this.
    04-03-2012 09:15 AM
  17. TomD's Avatar
    I kinda understand what the op is trying to say, coming from a palm pre.
    But hardware and specs just sucked. The phone simply couldn't keep up.
    Hey what do you expect. The original phone was made in 2009. Mine was over clocked from 600 mhz to 1000 mhz, had over temperature alarms, auto clock reduction in low load times. webOS Internals was breathing new life into old hardware. It is a great community. The multi tasking was very elegant.

    BTW the reason ICS is making such strides is the same guy who designed the UI on webOS is designing the UI on ICS - Matias Duarte - I think he's the leading UI man period.
    04-03-2012 09:17 AM
  18. TomD's Avatar
    Only if you modify your ROM, kernel, modem, recovery, or system applications. So ...

    Flash a custom ROM - OTA update will fail
    Flash a custom kernel - OTA update will fail
    Flash custom recovery like CWM - OTA update will fail
    Flash a different modem than the current official - OTA update will fail
    Remove bloatware like Sprint ID - OTA update will (probably) fail

    If you just root your phone, just to run Apps that require root for example, then OTA updates can be installed just fine (edit - how many times can I say "just" in the same sentence? geez!), but remove root in the process, requiring you to re-root if you choose to do so. If you do modify any of the above, flashing back to full stock in order to take an OTA update is quite easy using Odin so its mostly a non-issue. However, the full update is usually available to flash before the update even goes live, so it usually makes more sense to just flash that then go back to stock.

    As has already been stated since your post, Android is as open as it gets. It's the device manufacturers and carriers that lock the system down, for a variety of reasons that all have to do with maximizing profits. Flashing phones = more warranty claims and service calls which cut into those profit margins. Samsung Android phones are actually a bit more "open" than say HTC or Motorola phones as Samsung does not lock down the bootloader. REAL exploits like Revolutionary S-Off and others normally overcome this issue, but this phone is technically a bit more open than others.

    The current root method that is linked in this thread really does pass the caveman test.
    Thanks Jay,

    Great summary.

    Which root method leaves you in good shape for OTA? The one I saw requires a ROM update.
    04-03-2012 09:20 AM
  19. Sn1per 117's Avatar
    Thanks Jay,

    Great summary.

    Which root method leaves you in good shape for OTA? The one I saw requires a ROM update.
    Use sfhub's no data rooted EL29 Odin one click. That will only give you root access and won't change anything on your phone (except maybe update you to EL29 if you're not on it already or you could of course use an older version as well and then use his auto root tool). You should then be able to still receive ota updates if you wish. Just don't go changing around any system files

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
    04-03-2012 10:10 AM
  20. Stearmandriver's Avatar
    Part of the reason the procedure was different is that "developer mode" on the Pre WASN'T root access, not the same way we have it. Remember all the things the Pre failed at that WebOS Internals just COULDN'T fix, without "an updated SDK from Palm"? Like the inability to open pdfs for instance? See, on a truly rooted system, they could have released an updated ROM we could have all flashed that would have fixed Palm's failures. But that sort of thing never happened, because the devs didn't have the same level of access. At least, that's how I understand it.

    I've heard it said that the "patches" we could apply via preware were more like themeing Android... They changed the look of things, but didn't often change the way things fundamentally worked. Hence, the reason the devs couldn't actually fix things.
    NukieFreak likes this.
    04-04-2012 07:04 PM
  21. Biggnaa20's Avatar
    Part of the reason the procedure was different is that "developer mode" on the Pre WASN'T root access, not the same way we have it. Remember all the things the Pre failed at that WebOS Internals just COULDN'T fix, without "an updated SDK from Palm"? Like the inability to open pdfs for instance? See, on a truly rooted system, they could have released an updated ROM we could have all flashed that would have fixed Palm's failures. But that sort of thing never happened, because the devs didn't have the same level of access. At least, that's how I understand it.

    I've heard it said that the "patches" we could apply via preware were more like themeing Android... They changed the look of things, but didn't often change the way things fundamentally worked. Hence, the reason the devs couldn't actually fix things.
    WebOS wasn't an open sourced system until recently. That conversion is still going on and we'll see if that really changes how end users can interact with the system. My argument is that it was easier to get in and change the things you wanted to change without overhauling everything. I frankly think of Android as being an open system for the carriers (which are Google's true customers here). It's not really meant to be open for the average Joe.

    I also respectfully disagree with your perception of patching. The ones I used changed or added functionality (adding a flashlight, adding options to the launcher and browser, changing how the phone worked, overclocking, etc). We could theme through preware as well, but that was different than patching.

    nnb
    04-06-2012 03:12 PM
  22. Stearmandriver's Avatar
    I think Android WAS intended to be open for the average Joe... but the carriers don't like that and try to restrict it. That's why the pure android phones are so easy to root, but the phones with carrier and/or manufacturer skinning are a bit more challenging.

    That being said, this phone is extremely easy to root and customize these days. sfhub's one-click Odin packages are about as easy as it gets! And it's certainly not an "overhaul everything" proposition. My phone is rooted, running the stock EL29 rom. The one and only tweak I've made is the hotspot hack. That's the single reason I rooted. I'm not running a custom ROM or kernel. I've done that with other android phones... this one just doesn't require it. I'm perfectly happy with its stock performance. So we can very definitely - and easily - pick and choose which tweaks we want.

    Almost all the patches you listed are things that are available in the android market, WITHOUT rooting. Flashlight? Dozens. Launchers and browsers? Many to choose from, very customizable. Customizable dialers? Plenty. None of it requires root.

    Overclocking is a bit different, but the way I understand it, it deals with the kernel, not so much the ROM. So, I still think the WebOS devs never had the same level of access to the system - which is why they couldn't fix the real problems with it. My pre was patched and themed all to heck.. but it still couldn't perform some basic smartphone functions like opening a pdf. No real surprise Palm failed, with that kind of performance.
    04-06-2012 07:38 PM
  23. DirkBelig's Avatar
    When someone comes in and tries to smear the entire Android OS because it's funky to root some phones, I want to ask them to get back under their bridge. Android as closed as iOS? Puh-leeze!

    As for why carriers lock down phones, the reason is simple (and not just "greed" which is the lazy scapegoat for anything corporations do): Carriers have to support their phones and letting users run riot and screw things up means calls to the support line and higher costs, thus lower profits. (O noes! He's defending corporations making profits!) If someone roots and wrecks their phone, why should Sprint or Verizon or whoever have to take the phone call from that user who's whining about their stuff not working? Shouldn't they be able to say, "Perhaps you shouldn't have been messing with it"?

    There was a good editorial here a few months back about why rooting isn't for everyone. People act as if their phones are broken and useless unless they can superuser them. You hear a lot of nerd whining about how they want to "own the phone" and blah-blah-woof-woof, but I suspect many who want to root are just doing it to feel nerd smug.
    NukieFreak likes this.
    04-07-2012 05:17 PM
  24. TomD's Avatar
    When someone comes in and tries to smear the entire Android OS because it's funky to root some phones, I want to ask them to get back under their bridge. Android as closed as iOS? Puh-leeze!

    ...
    Jeeze what a fan boy. Smearing Android - Hardly, just pointing out that it isn't any more open than iOS. You gotta a break into both of them to do anything.

    I had a difficult choice between iOS and Android. Each has advantages and disadvantages. In the end I went with Android, partly because of its open reputation. That did not turn out to be true.
    04-07-2012 10:11 PM
  25. sorli's Avatar
    Yes I also wish Android was a little easier. Also coming from webOS, Android isn't as easy to root and unlock period. I love how so many people come to the defense of rooting Android, but why is it that every update brings another question "will my Root be deleted with the latest update?" Compared to other platforms lie Windows Mobile and IOS...Android rooting is a dream, but I don't have experience with these platforms and either way suspect Android is much easier.

    Actually, most of these problems I suspect are carrier specific and keeping rooting locked away in their pockets. I can see why carriers want this control...allows them to keep stocking builds with crap apps that most people don't find useful. WebOS had these too, but then easy access to Rooting eliminated most of these problems. For me, this is not a turf war and most of us simply want things easier. Probably why I miss webOS so much. Sorli...
    Biggnaa20 likes this.
    04-07-2012 10:39 PM
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