08-17-2011 11:19 PM
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  1. oversteer325's Avatar
    Phonearena had a blind shootout for best camera and the Nexus S 4G came out on top for the outdoors portion of the competition.

    Blind cameraphone comparison 2 (Results)

    Blind cameraphone comparison 2
    08-16-2011 08:35 AM
  2. cpolism's Avatar
    I wasn't expecting much coming from the evo, but I am definitely impressed with the camera. Even indoors, the flash works well for reasonably close portraits.
    08-16-2011 10:18 AM
  3. dwaynewilliams#WN's Avatar
    The camera is really good. I have been able to take some awesome photos in variable lighting conditions.
    08-17-2011 03:16 AM
  4. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    I wasn't expecting much coming from the evo, but I am definitely impressed with the camera. Even indoors, the flash works well for reasonably close portraits.
    I was expecting much either. But I came from an Epic. . Same thing.

    I really do like the Evo's camera though. Everyone says it's washed out; but, I think that's just because they compare it on the phones next to each other. Which, both pictures coming from the same camera would look the same.

    I think the camera is better qaulity; but, would much rather have more MP. I Want 10.

    All and all this is one of the best cameras I've ever had, haha.
    08-17-2011 12:16 PM
  5. Jimmy Chitwood's Avatar
    I was expecting much either. But I came from an Epic. . Same thing.

    I really do like the Evo's camera though. Everyone says it's washed out; but, I think that's just because they compare it on the phones next to each other. Which, both pictures coming from the same camera would look the same.

    I think the camera is better qaulity; but, would much rather have more MP. I Want 10.

    All and all this is one of the best cameras I've ever had, haha.
    I'm by no means an expert on photography so I'm actually curious about the whole MP thing. So a 5 MP picture resolution with a 4:3 apect ratio has a resolution of 2560x1920. I know its dependent on distance but for still images is this not enough resolution for say a 10" x 8" picture?
    08-17-2011 12:44 PM
  6. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    I'm by no means an expert on photography so I'm actually curious about the whole MP thing. So a 5 MP picture resolution with a 4:3 apect ratio has a resolution of 2560x1920. I know its dependent on distance but for still images is this not enough resolution for say a 10" x 8" picture?
    Image Size Calculator/Convertor
    08-17-2011 12:53 PM
  7. AndroidOne's Avatar
    ...I think the camera is better qaulity; but, would much rather have more MP. I Want 10. ...
    Sadly most consumers have come to equal higher MP with better images when this is not always true.

    First, MORE MP DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY EQUAL BETTER QUALITY. The quality of an image is very dependent on the SIZE and DENSITY of the photosensors used, so for a given sensor size, a substantial increase in MP count will mean smaller, tightly packed, photosensors which will ultimately cause the resulting image to be of lower quality with higher noise/signal ratio specially at lower light levels.

    If you have two sensors, for example a 1/2.5" sized sensor (typical compact camera) and a 4/3 sized sensor such as those found on Olympus PEN system (about 9 times the size of the 1/2.5") both recording at 12MP (very typical resolution), you will get same sized images with similar resolution, but the 4/3 sensor will provide better results. The overall image quality captured with a 4/3 sensor vs 1/2.5" sensor is far superior, more so under lower light conditions - like indoor photography - beacause the photosensors used are bigger and less cramped.

    The same will be true if you have two compact cameras (or phones) using a 1/2.5" sensor, one recording at 10MP and the other at 16MP. The one with the lower MP count will produce smaller sized pictures, less pixel detail, but far better image quality and low light performance that the higher MP counterpart for the same resons as explained above.

    The two things that higher MP count will give you are higher image resolution - since you have higher pixel density - and a larger image size so you can make bigger prints in the end.

    And while in the subject of phone photography...

    Digital zooming is BAD for image quality, period. When you do digital zooming, you are basically cropping the image to the area you want to emphasize and then using a program that essentially creates new pixel data based on the color/pattern of the surronding pixels to enlarge the image to the final size. This is process is commonly known as interpolation. If you most digitally zoom, is far better to just take the pic and then do the digital zooming with a full featured computer program where you have more control about the process and results.
    chud likes this.
    08-17-2011 03:28 PM
  8. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    Sadly most consumers have come to equal higher MP with better images when this is not always true.

    First, MORE MP DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY EQUAL BETTER QUALITY. The quality of an image is very dependent on the SIZE and DENSITY of the photosensors used, so for a given sensor size, a substantial increase in MP count will mean smaller, tightly packed, photosensors which will ultimately cause the resulting image to be of lower quality with higher noise/signal ratio specially at lower light levels.

    If you have two sensors, for example a 1/2.5" sized sensor (typical compact camera) and a 4/3 sized sensor such as those found on Olympus PEN system (about 9 times the size of the 1/2.5") both recording at 12MP (very typical resolution), you will get same sized images with similar resolution, but the 4/3 sensor will provide better results. The overall image quality captured with a 4/3 sensor vs 1/2.5" sensor is far superior, more so under lower light conditions - like indoor photography - beacause the photosensors used are bigger and less cramped.

    The same will be true if you have two compact cameras (or phones) using a 1/2.5" sensor, one recording at 10MP and the other at 16MP. The one with the lower MP count will produce smaller sized pictures, less pixel detail, but far better image quality and low light performance that the higher MP counterpart for the same resons as explained above.

    The two things that higher MP count will give you are higher image resolution - since you have higher pixel density - and a larger image size so you can make bigger prints in the end.

    And while in the subject of phone photography...

    Digital zooming id BAD for image quality, period. When you do digital zooming, you are basically cropping the image to the area you want to emphasize and then using a program that essentially creates new pixel data based on the color/pattern of the surronding pixels to enlarge the image to the final size. This is process is commonly known as interpolation. If you most digitally zoom, is far better to just take the pic and then do the digital zooming with a full featured computer program where you have more control about the process and results.
    O, I know but the Evo camera isn't that bad. The MP and Quality is decent and I would like the larger image.

    I want a 10MP with the quality or better of my camera. To be specific.

    That would be excellent. I like the photoshop here and there and larger images make it easier to work with because then it fits in more places; or, shrinks to appear better.
    08-17-2011 03:32 PM
  9. AndroidOne's Avatar
    O, I know but the Evo camera isn't that bad. The MP and Quality is decent and I would like the larger image.

    I want a 10MP with the quality or better of my camera. To be specific.

    That would be excellent. I like the photoshop here and there and larger images make it easier to work with because then it fits in more places; or, shrinks to appear better.
    Although pixel density (expressed here as Mp/cm2) is not a direct measure of image quality, is often used to compare different cameras in an effort to gauge (or explain) low light performance and dynamic resolution of a particular sensor.

    The typical image sensor used on phones is about 1/1.6' - with an area of 0.0432 cm2, is about 1/5th the size of the typical 1/2.5" sensor present on most consumer compact camera models available today. If we then estimate the approximate pixel density for the NS4G it comes around 125 Mp/cm2, for comparison purposes, a compact camera, with the larger sensor sporting 10MP resolution will have a pixel density of only 42 Mp/cm2 - compare with an enthusiast dSRL model such as the Canon 40D with an APS-C sensor at 10MP and a pixel density of 3 Mp/cm2.

    Now, if you double the MP count to 10, the density will logically double to 250 Mp/cm2 increasing the noise/signal ratio, degrading low light perfomance and dynamic range of the camera. But we get twice the resolution, some will say... not so. In order to double the resolution of the sensor, you need to increase the MP count by a factor of 4 (in this case 20MP). We will certainly get some measurable improvement in detail and will double the image size, with some substantial loss in image quality.

    That is one reason why the newer compact camera models targeting advanced photogs are coming with larger sensors and lower MP counts. One example is the Panasonic Lumix DMC LX-5 with a 1/1.63" sensor (almost twice as large as the typical compact) with only 10.1MP resolution.

    So afterall this mathematical mumbo jumbo, in the real world the only major difference I have found between the NS4G and Evo photos when seen on a color calibrated monitor, the latter are a bit flatter in terms of color saturation/range and a little noisier on the shadows - both issues easily corrected with minimal post-processing. This of course could be caused by differences on the JPG rendering engines built into the camera software and not necessarily pixel density differences.
    chud likes this.
    08-17-2011 05:23 PM
  10. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    Although pixel density (expressed here as Mp/cm2) is not a direct measure of image quality, is often used to compare different cameras in an effort to gauge (or explain) low light performance and dynamic resolution of a particular sensor.

    The typical image sensor used on phones is about 1/1.6' - with an area of 0.0432 cm2, is about 1/5th the size of the typical 1/2.5" sensor present on most consumer compact camera models available today. If we then estimate the approximate pixel density for the NS4G it comes around 125 Mp/cm2, for comparison purposes, a compact camera, with the larger sensor sporting 10MP resolution will have a pixel density of only 42 Mp/cm2 - compare with an enthusiast dSRL model such as the Canon 40D with an APS-C sensor at 10MP and a pixel density of 3 Mp/cm2.

    Now, if you double the MP count to 10, the density will logically double to 250 Mp/cm2 increasing the noise/signal ratio, degrading low light perfomance and dynamic range of the camera. But we get twice the resolution, some will say... not so. In order to double the resolution of the sensor, you need to increase the MP count by a factor of 4 (in this case 20MP). We will certainly get some measurable improvement in detail and will double the image size, with some substantial loss in image quality.

    That is one reason why the newer compact camera models targeting advanced photogs are coming with larger sensors and lower MP counts. One example is the Panasonic Lumix DMC LX-5 with a 1/1.63" sensor (almost twice as large as the typical compact) with only 10.1MP resolution.

    So afterall this mathematical mumbo jumbo, in the real world the only major difference I have found between the NS4G and Evo photos when seen on a color calibrated monitor, the latter are a bit flatter in terms of color saturation/range and a little noisier on the shadows - both issues easily corrected with minimal post-processing. This could be caused by differences on the JPG rendering engines built into the camera software and not necessarily pixel density differences.
    You lost me. I don't know ANYTHING about cameras.
    08-17-2011 05:27 PM
  11. chud's Avatar
    AndroidOne has the hammer thats hitting all the nails on all their heads.
    08-17-2011 05:53 PM
  12. AndroidOne's Avatar
    You lost me...
    LOL! My wife tells me the same thing... just not only for cameras but for most everything I say...
    08-17-2011 05:57 PM
  13. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    LOL! My wife tells me the same thing... just not only for cameras but for most everything I say...
    It's usually what I get from others. But I really am clueless on cameras. Good thing I'm no in the market for one. Otherwise I'd get eaten alive my a sales rep. Walk out with 2mp camera for $1,200 with digital zoom.

    All I know is digital zoom is garbage. All it does it what you can do if you crop the picture for what little piece you needed; or, put it on the computer and zoom it in. Get the best possible picture you can with your phone and edit it later if you need to.

    If your trying to photograph wild life and need to zoom in.... you need a real camera.
    08-17-2011 06:03 PM
  14. AndroidOne's Avatar
    AndroidOne has the hammer thats hitting all the nails on all their heads.
    So I guess someone follows.

    Are you into photography? It has been my passion for the past 30+ years.
    08-17-2011 06:05 PM
  15. chud's Avatar
    So I guess someone follows.

    Are you into photography? It has been my passion for the past 30+ years.
    I was actually into it more with film than digital and now find myself leaving them on Auto more than anything but I still keep up with what's going on.
    08-17-2011 06:07 PM
  16. AndroidOne's Avatar
    ...Good thing I'm no in the market for one. Otherwise I'd get eaten alive my a sales rep. Walk out with 2mp camera for $1,200 with digital zoom...
    Ha! Isn't that the truth. If you ever feel the need to get one, just shoot me a PM and I will help you make a better - less than $1,200 - choice.
    08-17-2011 06:07 PM
  17. AndroidOne's Avatar
    I was actually into it more with film than digital and now find myself leaving them on Auto more than anything but I still keep up with what's going on.
    Cool... started with a Canon F1 back in the '70 and have picked up way to many too count over the years along with developing equipments and now computers.
    08-17-2011 06:11 PM
  18. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    Ha! Isn't that the truth. If you ever feel the need to get one, just shoot me a PM and I will help you make a better - less than $1,200 - choice.
    If I ever need or am in the market for one I will definitively do my homework on it before. Like I do with everything. Usually then I end up lost in the subject with no way out; becoming and obsession to learn more and more until finally I know everything there is to know about it. Then, I continue to read about the latest new upcoming technologies for said subjects; and, usually ending up discussing such subjects on forums where I find 95% of the people know 1/8 on the matter of what I do.

    If I ever get lost i that realm and need some help I will shoot you a PM if your still around. Throw some decimals and quantum physics around, L O L
    08-17-2011 06:20 PM
  19. AndroidOne's Avatar
    If I ever need or am in the market for one I will definitively do my homework on it before. Like I do with everything. Usually then I end up lost in the subject with no way out; becoming and obsession to learn more and more until finally I know everything there is to know about it. Then, I continue to read about the latest new upcoming technologies for said subjects; and, usually ending up discussing such subjects on forums where I find 95% of the people know 1/8 on the matter of what I do.

    If I ever get lost i that realm and need some help I will shoot you a PM if your still around. Throw some decimals and quantum physics around, L O L
    LMAO... I usually do the same thing when I "research" some potential purchase as well.
    08-17-2011 06:52 PM
  20. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    LMAO... I usually do the same thing when I "research" some potential purchase as well.
    Yea, and then it takes me months to decide what to really buy after how long it took me to figure out everything about it. And by that time the new stuff is out and I'm like I could get the one I wanted for cheaper.... but the new stuff is out!....

    The newness factor runs out after time though and I stop carrying because it consumes me and probably isn't good for my health, ha. (Exaggerating there.) So, I was able to once walk into a bestbuy and buy the cheapest laptop they had over the new flashy ones with bluray and hdmi. I'm kicking myself now over the hdmi and should have just bought a desktop with the hdmi in it; but, I lived with it cause it did what I needed it to do.

    Right now I'm contempt with the Nexus; but, the only real thing I want more is HDMI. So, that said: my next purchase for a new phone with HDMI will most likely be dual core; and, if it's a Nexus with LTE. I'll be good for now. lol. (Even if it doesn't have my 10mp camera. )
    08-17-2011 07:06 PM
  21. AndroidOne's Avatar
    ...Right now I'm contempt with the Nexus; but, the only real thing I want more is HDMI. So, that said: my next purchase for a new phone with HDMI will most likely be dual core; and, if it's a Nexus with LTE. I'll be good for now. lol. (Even if it doesn't have my 10mp camera. )
    You crack me man, we are so much alike when it comes to tech and research... I am most definitely with you on the Nexus LTE (or Prime), I am truly looking forward to it having all the bells and whistles and becoming THE phone to have... even if it has a 10MP camera...
    08-17-2011 07:25 PM
  22. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    You crack me man, we are so much alike when it comes to tech and research... I am most definitely with you on the Nexus LTE (or Prime), I am truly looking forward to it having all the bells and whistles and becoming THE phone to have... even if it has a 10MP camera...
    The next phone I buy I want to forget about for little bit. Don't want to get on stuck on a dead network. The HDMI thing isn't bothering me right now because I can plug into the xbox to watch movies I have on my phone. But would like the HDMI for anything else like if I were to be somewhere not at home and wanted to watch Netflix.
    08-17-2011 07:30 PM
  23. AndroidOne's Avatar
    The next phone I buy I want to forget about for little bit. Don't want to get on stuck on a dead network. The HDMI thing isn't bothering me right now because I can plug into the xbox to watch movies I have on my phone. But would like the HDMI for anything else like if I were to be somewhere not at home and wanted to watch Netflix.
    Hope they make the HDMI user accessible in a way you won't need to root and go through hoops just to send a movie to an external monitor - a la EVO 4G!
    08-17-2011 07:59 PM
  24. BlackHawkA4's Avatar
    Hope they make the HDMI user accessible in a way you won't need to root and go through hoops just to send a movie to an external monitor - a la EVO 4G!
    Yea. I feel like they won't though due to DRM or something.

    My question I've been asking (Since you here and sorry to the dude who posted this thread, ha) myself; but, have not looked into (Mainly because I Can't remember what the hell it's called):

    The open application or whatever it's called that allowed 2.3.4 devices to plug things into USB and have hardware work with apps that were programmed for them: wouldn't it be possible to create an app that would turn the USB port into an HDMI out port (Obviously having the correct wire) or am I missing the how it works exactly? If I can send a movie file through USB to my computer why can't I "stream" the video through to a TV?
    08-17-2011 08:08 PM
  25. AndroidOne's Avatar
    Yea. I feel like they won't though due to DRM or something.

    My question I've been asking (Since you here and sorry to the dude who posted this thread, ha) myself; but, have not looked into (Mainly because I Can't remember what the hell it's called):

    The open application or whatever it's called that allowed 2.3.4 devices to plug things into USB and have hardware work with apps that were programmed for them: wouldn't it be possible to create an app that would turn the USB port into an HDMI out port (Obviously having the correct wire) or am I missing the how it works exactly?
    Interesting question... quite frankly I don't have an answer for that one but I do remember a phone that used the microUSB port for dual HDMI duty - was it the Epic? - so if what I remember is correct, then it may be possible. Need to look at a pin drawing of an HDMI connector to be sure.
    08-17-2011 08:13 PM
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